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Ranked pvp should be team only, require a full 5 before being able to Q


Crab Fear.1624

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1 hour ago, ramorambo.6701 said:

You keep saying the population shrinked because of soloq implementation, while ignoring the fact that the population was big only when people still hadn't a clue about how much this game sPvp was pretty much semi-abandoned, meta specs are specs that are 4 years old, the gamemode has nothing to do with the shrinking, the never changing meta however does.

 

Dang, another post that only list positive things while completely ignoring negatives of your reasoning,  the annoyance of finding 4 people, removing the option to play ranked with a single button click-no direct player interaction that many players do like for pvp modes.

 

Anyway rest assured that 5v5 enforce will never happen at all, it MAY appear in the offseason tho, just to test the water, since off season is a shitfest anyway

Having to form teams is an acceptable tradeoff that will kill bots, win traders, and match manipulation.

 

Single button q into Unranked, why is the competitive side of spvp being non-casual bad?

It may bring problems, but those will be format issues not balance issues.

If someone can exploit the system, that can be fixed without too much thought versus how to balance a game mode flooded with burn guard, necro, and mirage bots, afk players, throwers, and hackers.

 

The positives outweigh the negative so much that it wasn't even a noticeable negative.

 

The "shy" players will adapt just like they do for raids and fractals when they do pve.

Conquest was built from the ground up to be played with organized teams.

 

 

Edited by Crab Fear.1624
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9 minutes ago, ovenglove.9528 said:

It seems like the easiest way to decimate the pvp population. Do you think all the shy players will adapt?  I think a proportion would adapt, but a proportion would also stop playing pvp. Of course I have no idea what the ratio would be, but at a minimum I think the game modes population would shrink.

Would it not be greatly offset by the players who are still in GW2 but not pvp because there are no teams?

 

I guess not everyone plays fractals or raids, but they seem to be fine with teams being all but required. (Raids specifically being made harder if anyone can do it with 1-2 players)

 

I'm just not sold on it killing the pop.

 

Can't kill what is dead.

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10 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Would it not be greatly offset by the players who are still in GW2 but not pvp because there are no teams?

 

I guess not everyone plays fractals or raids, but they seem to be fine with teams being all but required. (Raids specifically being made harder if anyone can do it with 1-2 players)

 

I'm just not sold on it killing the pop.

 

Can't kill what is dead.

 

 

Why wouldn't those players already be in pvp playing automated tournaments? Maybe there are some who don't play ranked because there aren't full teams. It seems hyper optimistic to think they would offset the losses of people who don't want to team queue. 

 

Maybe it is me that is not being optimistic enough. The thing is that it strikes me that GW2 is a game where the vast majority of people want to play along side people, but not with them. The convenience of solo q is great for people like that, you can log on at any time play a game or two and log of in less than half an hour. When you have to find a team, or be online at a pre determined time for your pre arranged pvp, honestly I think over half of players quit without even giving it a shot.

 

It seems odd to bring up raids considering how few people do them. Plus it may bring the same problems with finding teams with pve like having to ping gear or titles. I think that an automatic matching system like the duties in FFXIV for raids would see them played a lot more. It may be fine if you are already established in the pvp community, but what about new players? Do they need to join a pvp guild and be trained like raid statics? Seems like it would put off new players.

It isn't dead. It is low, but not dead. There is still potential for it to be even more dead given the wrong decisions.

 

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played gw2 for darn near 8 years and quit when they killed team que had a  300 man guild all daily active who paired into teams of 5 and qued all day now no one plays anymore sad what they did with spvp... 

 

Im skeptical that  required 5 mans would work due to the fact that people just don't have the time always to find Randoms to pair with (not saying it wouldn't work I'm just not so sure) 

 

I just wish they would bring back season 2 style as previous stated by other people here but id be down for any team based content in spvp 

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Allowing only full teams into a ranked mode is a surefire way to kill off that mode quickly, especially if the playerbase for that mode wasn't very large to begin with. You honestly think there will be enough people willing and able to form full groups at any time of the day to avoid long wait times and/or completely unbalanced match-ups? Forget it.

I've seen ranked be split into seperate full team and solo/duo queus in a different game and guess which of the two was removed in less than six months. Making ranked less accessible to your average player (which is your majority btw) was and is never the answer. 

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7 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

hey look, another person thinking 5man only ranked is a goooood idea.
its almost as if developers over the past 20 or whatever the kitten years havent thought of that.
or maybe they did, and it has always sucked, never worked and got removed. hmm

Its almost as if you are pretending GW1 didn't exist and that HA, GvG, and AB were not extremely successful.

 

Hmm...

 

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1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Its almost as if you are pretending GW1 didn't exist and that HA, GvG, and AB were not extremely successful.

 

Hmm...

 

they are not lol.
gw1 has less then 1% of leagues player base, but I guess we have different opinions on successful ? XD
lost ark has like 5x more players despite not even being released in most regions yet lul
super successful coming through

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23 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Would it not be greatly offset by the players who are still in GW2 but not pvp because there are no teams?

 

I guess not everyone plays fractals or raids, but they seem to be fine with teams being all but required. (Raids specifically being made harder if anyone can do it with 1-2 players)

 

I'm just not sold on it killing the pop.

 

Can't kill what is dead.

 

I think you're grossly overestimating how many people will play PvP if it turns into 5 man queues only.

 

Just look at AT participation.

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1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

they are not lol.
gw1 has less then 1% of leagues player base, but I guess we have different opinions on successful ? XD
lost ark has like 5x more players despite not even being released in most regions yet lul
super successful coming through

I'm not talking about today....lul.....wowzers

Can we talk about the prime of GW1?

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59 minutes ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

I think you're grossly overestimating how many people will play PvP if it turns into 5 man queues only.

 

Just look at AT participation.

Nah, because you are just waiting to queue against any team, not waiting for the whole bracket.

 

I think you are grossly underestimating the power of not having a choice. 

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7 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I'm not talking about today....lul.....wowzers

Can we talk about the prime of GW1?

you mean 16 years ago back when the sky was green, grass was blue and many people didnt even have internet ?
the reason why gw1 had 5man queue is because gaming was fairly new and developers didnt know what works and what doesnt.
they learned on games LIKE gw1 what to do and what not.

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5 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you mean 16 years ago back when the sky was green, grass was blue and many people didnt even have internet ?
the reason why gw1 had 5man queue is because gaming was fairly new and developers didnt know what works and what doesnt.
they learned on games LIKE gw1 what to do and what not.

Obviously they learned something....lol

 

I mean just look at GW2 pvp. It is absolutely thriving....

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5 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Obviously they learned something....lol

 

I mean just look at GW2 pvp. It is absolutely thriving....

almost as much as gw1 is, I mean. I tried to look how its doing on twitch but there is total of 15 viewers currently, so maybe just maybe its not as good as your rose tainted glasses made it look eh ?

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1 minute ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

almost as much as gw1 is, I mean. I tried to look how its doing on twitch but there is total of 15 viewers currently, so maybe just maybe its not as good as your rose tainted glasses made it look eh ?

Do you think I am saying GW1 is healthy now?

It is pretty much a retired game.

Comparing primes of the two (prime, best years) in terms of PVP, GW1 population wins hands down, no contest.

 

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36 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Nah, because you are just waiting to queue against any team, not waiting for the whole bracket.

 

I think you are grossly underestimating the power of not having a choice. 

 

But you're also calling for the removal of solo/duo queue, therefore removing that choice...

 

The choice to play as a 5 man queue is there (AT), but the numbers don't support that 5 man queue interest is higher than solo/duo queue interest.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Do you think I am saying GW1 is healthy now?

It is pretty much a retired game.

Comparing primes of the two (prime, best years) in terms of PVP, GW1 population wins hands down, no contest.

 

 

I think it's unfair to compare GW1 and GW2 populations since the "popular" games during their primes was different. Like MMOs were a lot more popular during GW1's era than GW2's. 

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What I don't get, is that if TeamQ is so wonderful and fun as the OP says then why would we all have to be forced to play it?

A good test would be to make it a separate arena and give people the option to play in teams or don't then putting them against only other people who want to queue in teams or do not.

 

If nobody wants to play in Teams then OP is wrong.

If everybody would rather play in Teams then clearly SoloQ isn't the right format for the game.

 

If that is too much work, then we could just count the ratio of 😕to 💙 here, which...

Uh-oh.

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Ah again this beating the dead horse. We did have 5v5 queue, we have ATs now. Neither are very popular. This is fact. Majority did and still rather play in soloQ simply because majority doesn't want/can't form groups for such content due to various reasons.

Asking to return 5v5 is one thing, asking to remove soloq all together is different all together. Aren't you bit selfish there? All this development should be then focused for tiny group of wintraders then? Nice one.

Because frankly, no offense here, but it would be very delusional to believe that majority of players would suddenly form groups. If anything ranked would be dead for most part. Even in LoL most people play in soloq not 5v5.

"The "shy" players will adapt just like they do for raids and fractals when they do pve. "

Yeah, rrright. I remember the time when pvp was more active and people formed groups for tourney and 5v5 queues. Unless you are in top 20 or something and passed tests (duels and nearly job like interview, not to mention give up your RL for team) you wouldn't get into any team no matter how bad those were in first place. This will certainly encourage people to form teams, yuppp.

You think that by removing the choice of soloq more will form teams? Wrong. Look at raiding community. You either have 10 man group or you don't raid at all. Guess what? The raiding community is tiny. I have been in fixed raiding groups with fixed times and even then we still had to look for people because real life doesn't adjust itself to the game. Sometimes we had to give up the run all together because we couldn't find enough people. On top of it most complain that new players and even vets that don't have 750 LI or w/e can't even get in raids at all. Do you think it is an accident why Anet moved development to strikes instead? Think again.

Removing soloq is hardly a solution for bot problem. Solution is perma banns and balancing classes so botting is not as rewarding.

 

@Multicolorhipster.9751

We already had team queue in the past it was just bunch of wintraders having fun with each other. OP was already proved wrong.

Edited by Cynz.9437
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On 9/29/2021 at 11:34 AM, Crab Fear.1624 said:

The "shy" players will adapt just like they do for raids and fractals when they do pve.

Hey uh.

Something needs to be done to mitigate the wintrading and make the overall pvp experience better, yes, but be careful how far you lean into premade allowance.

the shy PvE players Absolutely are -not- doing that. Raids are suffering from access problems that could easily follow to pvp.

Wintrading is an issue, but I thought about some discussion I had recently and we need to be careful in assuming players will just adapt to this group thing. They don't do that. Lots of people aren't social. Its frustrating but I don't think there's a mode we can just force players to do at the moment to repair the community. I think teams are a -part- of it, but not the entire solution. There may have been a time in the past where teams were suitable, but we can't afford to make the barrier for entry any more difficult than it is right now.

The reason I think teams should be allowed, is so we can build a community of people decent and mature enough to play the game to have fun. That influence will counteract the wintrade-y, ego-driven mentality, will create a space for new players to join, improve and grow, and might open up some build viability within certain comps.  I don't agree with it being the only option, though. 

I wish the game was balanced, then I could say 1v1 could be a counterpart to the premade ranking. Alas-

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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On 9/29/2021 at 1:33 PM, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I am suggesting that you remove the ability to q with less than a team of 5 into ranked.

 

Your idea is noble and would work in an ideal world... (next to soloq that is) 

This isnt an ideal world tho. 

Rated pvp with groups bigger than 2-3 doesnt really work. Building groups means a lot more effort and time management. U need to find moments in schedules where everyone can play. And sometimes ppl will need to play when they dont really feel like playing. Just because the session was scheduled. It also means u whont be able to play rated whenever you feel like it. Which is a really bad thing for a pvp scene that isnt that big to begin with. It will drop activity during off hours and make rated pvp a thing that will only happen between 19.00 and 23.00. 

Next to that the incentives in GW2 arent big enough to make up for that effort.

Ill pour that in to an example for you. I lead RBGs (rated 10v10) in wow at a very high lvl since 2011. At the start it was popular due to the fact it was the fastest route to the best possible pvp gear. Once that changed and that incentive got removed...it died. Noone really wants to go through the hassle of organizing  in a PvE raid like manner.  The only ones that play now are (real money) boost teams. 

In a game like GW2 that has no gear incentives the reason needs to be "being able to play some fun semi competetive pvp whenever we feel like it".  Removing solo/duoq and forcing ppl to do 5 man only will remove that. And no....unrated isnt the same as playing soloq pvp at plat +. 

I got top 30 by soloqing in to team q back when it was in. Thats how few serious teams played that. It was literally only PvE guilds. So it was literally like this; sitting in q for 15-20 minutes just to play vs a team of guys that play PvP once a month (while i was in the top 100). 

 

 

 

Edited by Locuz.2651
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13 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

@Multicolorhipster.9751

We already had team queue in the past it was just bunch of wintraders having fun with each other. OP was already proved wrong.

True, but I don't mind a handful of teams with a mode dedicated exclusively to them. So long as I don't have to play it.

 

They already have ATs and they've already tried this, but if they still aren't convinced then its only a handful gone from matchmaking. Everyone who does SoloQ will still probably mostly SoloQ after, even if they play both Teams and Solo.

 

That's a good 30 or so people you don't have to contend with on the leaderboard every season as well. 😎👍

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