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Infusions going back to "impossible to get"


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12 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s kept a lot of metas active which probably would have been abandoned by now.

No, the infusions by themselves don't have the draw to keep big metas alive as seen by the Amnoon meta which was essentially dead at some point until they added Amalgamated Gemstones to it and the other metas would still be played even without the infusions as they are both rather profitable and necessary for many legendary items.

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32 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

No, the infusions by themselves don't have the draw to keep big metas alive as seen by the Amnoon meta which was essentially dead at some point until they added Amalgamated Gemstones to it and the other metas would still be played even without the infusions as they are both rather profitable and necessary for many legendary items.

Was it so dead though? I'm not sure.

And considering there are squads consistently running around daily titled/described as ~"infusion trains", I think it's fairly safe to say that they do have some draw for the people to attend those events. Of course amalgamated could also help, seeing how it's a guarantee everyone comes away from the meta event with something instead of empty-handed.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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48 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Was it so dead though? I'm not sure.

I am cause I used the Lily of the Elon as my main lounge for quite some time. People played the meta in the beginning but that dropped off rather quickly and I had trouble collecting all the stuff from the exchange shop because the meta used to fail all the time which dragged out the process quite a bit. Participation then only picked back up after they added new rewards to the event which they did because pretty much no one was playing PoF metas.

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24 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

I am cause I used the Lily of the Elon as my main lounge for quite some time. People played the meta in the beginning but that dropped off rather quickly and I had trouble collecting all the stuff from the exchange shop because the meta used to fail all the time which dragged out the process quite a bit. Participation then only picked back up after they added new rewards to the event which they did because pretty much no one was playing PoF metas.

Other pof metas, sure. But not really pinata one 😄

And considering there are squads consistently running around daily titled/described as ~"infusion trains", I think it's fairly safe to say that they do have some draw for the people to attend those events. Of course amalgamated could also help, seeing how it's a guarantee everyone comes away from the meta event with something instead of empty-handed.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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7 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Notice, how it wasn't well received at all, and probably the only reason why it remained that way was because it was released around the time Anet was already dropping support for GW1. Notice also, that this "intended" droprate was so low that initially Anet denied it was even dropping at all. And that the confirmation that the actual droprate is a result of a value in drop tables (and that value was not a mistype, but was put in there intentionally), does not mean Anet was fully aware how rare the drop will really end up as. Personally, knowing a lot of other Anet mishaps, i have my doubts about that.

 

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1 hour ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Place a buy order, eventually you will get one. At 10k, it is random who the item is sold 2, so a 1 in 30 chance is much better than the actual drop rate. 

It is not random. It is filled in order of placement (the oldest ones are filled first - so, if there's already 30 other buy offers on TP when you add yours, 30 infusions need to sell before it will be your turn).

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I love RNG drops because of that "WOW I got it" factor but I agree, many of the items in GW2 are too rare. Right now infusions sit at like, 1 in 10000 odds. I think a good solution is to make a pool of say, 5 or 6 items, all with a 1% (1 in 100) drop rate, and even if you don't get the specific item you wanted you'll still get something that may make your day

Edited by Abelisk.5148
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@NingenSucker.7319

Just to point out something about the TP infusions, there was a person duping expensive items and there was influx of them, he slipped up on stream(funny that arenanet didn't do anything before that) and got banned. Now the luxury market is little bit kittened over and the trading guilds/discords are hodling and most of the time the only way to get the infusions is to get a hold of the non shady ones and ask around, but I think you will need more gold than that in mystic coins to trade it. If you have that much gold I advise you to play the 5th mode of play of the game the Trading post maybe get some tips from basically the official  TP baron of GW 2 GuildMM  https://www.youtube.com/c/GuildMM , he might even answer some questions on his stream where you can get a hold on the luxury items you want. There is also https://www.reddit.com/r/GW2Exchange/ reddit but I don't know the people there and can't guarantee safety, since everything off the TP is grey market. 
This all sounds like some mafia deal kitten, cause it might be working like that. All I can say is "Hey kid want some infusions?".

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56 minutes ago, NingenSucker.7319 said:

I got my first 10k gold and im ready to buy my chak infusion on the TP, Why i cant???? If you say i can buy it with gold wheres my infusion? Oh wait i need to wait 8 months with 10k gold stuck on the TP to get it!

Have you even tried putting up your offer? You've waited how many months to save that much gold, do a couple more weeks really make a difference?

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On 10/2/2021 at 7:36 AM, Abelisk.5148 said:

I love RNG drops because of that "WOW I got it" factor but I agree, many of the items in GW2 are too rare. Right now infusions sit at like, 1 in 10000 odds. I think a good solution is to make a pool of say, 5 or 6 items, all with a 1% (1 in 100) drop rate, and even if you don't get the specific item you wanted you'll still get something that may make your day

You know, I'm not even sure whether the drop rate of these items is per fight or per person doing a boss fight. If it's per fight it has to be divided by the amount of players still. 

I think the issue is not that some items are RNG but that there are cosmetic items that have too low a chance of dropping so that they are akin to lottery chances. In Fashion Wars (which I gladly participate in) there are some items that are important just for looks that are virtually impossible to get for most players.

But then I am reminded of something that Bertrand Russell once said: "To be without some of the things you want is an indispensable part of happiness."

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On 9/30/2021 at 10:29 PM, mythical.6315 said:


I disagree it would have on curving inflation. The benefits would be negligible. Having super rare infusions drives players towards those metas which haves them and keeps them active. How many would still do the casino meta if it didn’t have an infusion?  How many would still do the shatterer meta in Jahai if it didn’t have an infusion?

 

You're making an assumption about the intention of the developers. That is of course unless you have some evidence to back up your claim. 

And do you have evidence that the players farming the metas are really only there for the infusion? I personally doubt it, because for the first week or two after ANet announced the boosting of the drop rates, the metas got SWARMED. And by that, I mean every single meta window had at least 2-3 instances, at all hours of the day. But as players realized the drop rate was still extremely low, interest rapidly faded and it went back to the usual "one packed instance, usually run by a guild. If you're lucky another overflow instance. Non-peak hours are usually dead unless it's a Daily day or one of the afore-mentioned guilds shows up."

No, as Tails mentioned above, I would say that the main reason players show up at things like Pinata is because it's an extremely quick, lazy way to get an Amalgamated Gemstone as well as other loot (including Elegy Mosaics, for Legendary crafting). It's the same reason why there's usually a horde of players waiting at Matriarch in VB,  but nobody sticks around to actually finish the meta. The Amals are the real reason why people bring lots of alts to these events; they just need to get a couple hits in on the boss and bam, that's 60s x however many alts they have parked there. The drop rate of the infusions is low enough that the alts are not seriously trying to farm it that way.

As for the dev's intentions, naturally I'm not a mind reader so I can't say with 100% certainty what their intention was. But I do find it telling that the ONLY three infusions they bumped up the drop rate of were Chak, Khan-Ur and Confetti, and notably these were the only 3 infusions who had a price threshold beyond the 10k TP limit. So, I would say with a high degree of confidence that people bypassing the TP tax via gray market trading was a factor in their decision.

So, again, I still stand by my stance that putting in an alternate way to farm ultra-rare infusions would not adversely affect their price in a way that is harmful to the game's economy. For an example, take a look at the Frost Legion infusion. Despite the fact that Drizzlewood is farmed extensively by players 24/7, AND the fact that you can make your own using a phenomenal amount of Jormag Blood, Glass and Ectos, the sell price of the infusion is still 1k higher than the cost to make it (and the buy price is, as of this writing, slightly higher than the price of all the mats together.) If people can make their own infusion for cheaper than what it costs to buy it, why aren't they? Simple. It's because the convenience of just buying the infusion outright still outweighs the time and effort it would take to earn it. That's why I remain confident that having an alternate method of acquiring the infusions would not ruin the market for infusions, especially if you account bound the infusions so they couldn't be resold. There will ALWAYS be players who just want the shiny loot nownownow and are willing to pay through the nose to get it.

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5 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

And do you have evidence that the players farming the metas are really only there for the infusion? I personally doubt it, because for the first week or two after ANet announced the boosting of the drop rates, the metas got SWARMED. And by that, I mean every single meta window had at least 2-3 instances, at all hours of the day. But as players realized the drop rate was still extremely low, interest rapidly faded and it went back to the usual "one packed instance, usually run by a guild. If you're lucky another overflow instance. Non-peak hours are usually dead unless it's a Daily day or one of the afore-mentioned guilds shows up."


Do you have any evidence that players farming the metas are only really there for the amalgamated gemstones?  I do also want to point out that I never said that it was the only reason players do metas. Stating that I did comes off as if one either didn’t read/understand my posts or are intentionally being disingenuous when attempting to counter what I said. 
 

The instances are not usually run by a guild or at least not on NA.  How does one know how many instances are actively being played?  Did I miss something and there’s some tool that shows this?  Also, there have been LFG posts advertising a meta train focusing solely on metas which drop infusions. Let us not forget about that which I, and a few others, have already mentioned. 
 

6 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

No, as Tails mentioned above, I would say that the main reason players show up at things like Pinata is because it's an extremely quick, lazy way to get an Amalgamated Gemstone as well as other loot (including Elegy Mosaics, for Legendary crafting). It's the same reason why there's usually a horde of players waiting at Matriarch in VB,  but nobody sticks around to actually finish the meta. The Amals are the real reason why people bring lots of alts to these events; they just need to get a couple hits in on the boss and bam, that's 60s x however many alts they have parked there. The drop rate of the infusions is low enough that the alts are not seriously trying to farm it that way.


So you’re saying most people who do these metas have multiple accounts and are multi-boxing?  Do you have any evidence to back that up?  
 

Doing the metas for a 60 silver infusion is a very poor and inefficient use of time. The piñata meta isn’t quick as you have four events. I believe that meta is around 15 minutes. AB is like 20 minutes as you have to join early enough otherwise you can’t join an active instance doing the meta. 
 

6 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

As for the dev's intentions, naturally I'm not a mind reader so I can't say with 100% certainty what their intention was. But I do find it telling that the ONLY three infusions they bumped up the drop rate of were Chak, Khan-Ur and Confetti, and notably these were the only 3 infusions who had a price threshold beyond the 10k TP limit. So, I would say with a high degree of confidence that people bypassing the TP tax via gray market trading was a factor in their decision.


This has nothing to do with my posts. 
 

6 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

So, again, I still stand by my stance that putting in an alternate way to farm ultra-rare infusions would not adversely affect their price in a way that is harmful to the game's economy. For an example, take a look at the Frost Legion infusion. Despite the fact that Drizzlewood is farmed extensively by players 24/7, AND the fact that you can make your own using a phenomenal amount of Jormag Blood, Glass and Ectos, the sell price of the infusion is still 1k higher than the cost to make it (and the buy price is, as of this writing, slightly higher than the price of all the mats together.) If people can make their own infusion for cheaper than what it costs to buy it, why aren't they? Simple. It's because the convenience of just buying the infusion outright still outweighs the time and effort it would take to earn it. That's why I remain confident that having an alternate method of acquiring the infusions would not ruin the market for infusions, especially if you account bound the infusions so they couldn't be resold. There will ALWAYS be players who just want the shiny loot nownownow and are willing to pay through the nose to get it.


It would have an impact just as birthday dyes did on the tradeable versions.  

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In my opinion, infusions have always been impossible to achieve in goals (except for Auric Basin's meta-event)
I spent three months playing like crazy (24 hours a day) doing and repeating meta events (Pinata, Chak and Octavine).
Since the day the update arrived stating that the drop rate of infusions had increased.
And only after I realized that actually playing GW2 during that time had been a huge waste of time.
Today I just go to check new skins and a few other things. I don't think I will play these event goals anymore.
If you really want an infusion, I advise you to add money in the game and buy it. If you really want money in the game, I advise you to use the (repeatable and boring) farm that exists in the game.

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The GW2 community is weird. It looks like real life (with inequality and discrepancy).
While some players are showing their countless infusions, which I can't imagine how they got it, others are admiring and revering it with the little money they have (and who would also love to get their first infusion).
I say this because I've seen a moment in the meta event where a player showed the absurd amount of very expensive infusions he had in his inventory.
It's scary and revolting at the same time. Do these millionaire gamblers know something the rest don't? Is there a covert way to get and trade impossible and very expensive infusions?
Sad and disheartening.

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7 hours ago, lummuss.6850 said:

The GW2 community is weird. It looks like real life (with inequality and discrepancy).
While some players are showing their countless infusions, which I can't imagine how they got it, others are admiring and revering it with the little money they have (and who would also love to get their first infusion).
I say this because I've seen a moment in the meta event where a player showed the absurd amount of very expensive infusions he had in his inventory.
It's scary and revolting at the same time. Do these millionaire gamblers know something the rest don't? Is there a covert way to get and trade impossible and very expensive infusions?
Sad and disheartening.

 

Infusions are like cosmetic bullions. Traders take advantage of the value of items and treat them as currency (since there's a limit to how much raw gold can be moved between players). In need of a quick pinch? Sell the infusion. 

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I have farmed chak much longer than you and two of the other infusions that rarely are put up for 10k and I have accepted I will never get one but I don't want it easier to obtain.


We can't have it all, sometimes trophy items are there to admire and not process.

 

The only wiggle room maybe is the gold cap on items, because 10k gold is a laughable payout for like a confetti infusion.  There's really no incentive to sell it at such a low price. However this cap is there for other reasons.

 

 

Edited by Despond.2174
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  • 4 months later...

Thank you for this! I've been on about this subject for years. The thing is, we paid for the xpac, which comes with the content of infusions. WE PAID FOR THIS ALREADY! It's understandable to lock something behind achievements or a special map currency or something, but it's not understandable to let players dictate who gets an infusion and who does not based on how rich they are. The fact that we paid money for this and its inaccessible to 95% of the player base is ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, Leafstorm.1349 said:

Thank you for this! I've been on about this subject for years. The thing is, we paid for the xpac, which comes with the content of infusions. WE PAID FOR THIS ALREADY! It's understandable to lock something behind achievements or a special map currency or something, but it's not understandable to let players dictate who gets an infusion and who does not based on how rich they are. The fact that we paid money for this and its inaccessible to 95% of the player base is ridiculous. 

You bought the expansion and have the same chance as everyone else to get those infusions as a drop.

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If there weren’t enough players willing to endlessly farm for ridiculously rare drops, games wouldn’t be designed with them.

Extreme RNG is in game because it works. For a significant portion of the players, it keeps them playing long after content would otherwise have gone stale.

Farm super rare RNG, and you are communicating to ArenaNet that they should continue to make it part of the game.

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23 hours ago, Leafstorm.1349 said:

Thank you for this! I've been on about this subject for years. The thing is, we paid for the xpac, which comes with the content of infusions. WE PAID FOR THIS ALREADY! It's understandable to lock something behind achievements or a special map currency or something, but it's not understandable to let players dictate who gets an infusion and who does not based on how rich they are. The fact that we paid money for this and its inaccessible to 95% of the player base is ridiculous. 


What you’re complaining about is how almost all MMOs work. You can buy the item or go and do the content until you get the drop. 

Edited by mythical.6315
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