It's been over a year and sevenshot is still OP

[Grand Marshal.4098]

It hits hard don't get me wrong. Which is why I laugh over Renegade corpses when I deflect sevenshot with my shield as Berserker. I keep my block just for that moment they pew pew and everything goes back to their face. Then they get confused about what happened and then they are at my mercy! 😈

 

But I gotta admit, the AoE cleave of shortbow is too kitten good and easy to use. I believe it's a bit too quick and strong in the regard. Matches the shortbow theme, but as an espec weapon it may seem a bit too strong compared to say Torch from Berserker or Pistol from warrior. Double daggers are good, but MH is where it's at cause Shield remains number 1 OH for warriors. 

 

Ultimately, comparing all the factors I believe Rene shortbow is a tad stronger than your other weapon options. Both for Rev and many other classes. 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

9 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's not bloody hard to "fall in love" when your class becomes meta everywhere since its inception is it?

-First released and they were power heralds everywhere...then a tad nerfed but they then super buffed sword off-hand

-They then buffed mallyx adn ventari, the first brought super tanky condi users in wvw...the second to make some meme healer 

-During all this we had hammer rev dominating wvw....supplementing staff eles because 100% less risky, party buffs, 100% better

-We then had renegagde, with MAT teams winning while using 3-4 renegade for another bloody 2 years

-And then there is now.....

For all I care, keep your toys , I only want people to stop using this joke :"my class takes skill"....give me a kittening break now, not only this game is casual friendly and easy to grasp but also rev is one of the better designed specs....so stop crying for god sake and spare me the BS :"Revenants have stuck with the class since it was released"...this class has gone from OP to strong to O....and back to strong...so spare me the fake tears

If given the power, I'd force every account of a player crying about his class...to force play core ele for a whole year...then we can justify your tears

 

While I don't often take stock in profession popularity figures, to claim that Rev has somehow been meta for everything all of the time when it is among the three lowest played professions by population seems a tad... Daft.

[Telgum.6071]

10 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

If given the power, I'd force every account of a player crying about his class...to force play core ele for a whole year...then we can justify your tears

I knew it was elementalist. What a joke to come and moan about one class being super tanky (revenant isn't), while also dealing massive damage, while also having big CC when you are an elementalist player and can survive longer, deal more collective damage and deal more CC than any other Revenant build.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Jthug.9506]

I got into a protracted 5+ minute fight with a cele ele against my cele ren in wvw about a month ago, eventually we both just decided to walk away. Although I think I got slightly closer to death at some points than they did, but ultimately neither one of us was going to die, ever.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:19 AM, Telgum.6071 said:

I knew it was elementalist. What a joke to come and moan about one class being super tanky (revenant isn't), while also dealing massive damage, while also having big CC when you are an elementalist player and can survive longer, deal more collective damage and deal more CC than any other Revenant build.

 

Out of curiosity, what Ele build are you talking about that can do all of that? The only possible one I can think of is Fire Weaver, but what you are saying sounds a bit hyperbolic.

 

25 minutes ago, Jthug.9506 said:

I got into a protracted 5+ minute fight with a cele ele against my cele ren in wvw about a month ago, eventually we both just decided to walk away. Although I think I got slightly closer to death at some points than they did, but ultimately neither one of us was going to die, ever.

 

Cele do be like that. 

[Obtena.7952]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:32 PM, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

While I don't often take stock in profession popularity figures, to claim that Rev has somehow been meta for everything all of the time when it is among the three lowest played professions by population seems a tad... Daft.

That's a little unfair. Just because lowest played doesn't mean Rev's haven't been a significant part of the meta for a better part of their existence. There are LOTS of reasons a class could be lowest played, but there is only one reason it's meta. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Telgum.6071]

5 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Out of curiosity, what Ele build are you talking about that can do all of that? The only possible one I can think of is Fire Weaver, but what you are saying sounds a bit hyperbolic.

Reading my message again I notice a mistake: when I said Ele can do more survival, damage and CC than any Revenant build, I meant Renegade, whos damage I don't think is as high as Herald with an assassin build.

Every Trailblazer/Cele Ele puts more survival, CC and damage than any Condi Renegade.

Every Power Elementalist can put more damage than Renegade, which only has one single big damage skill on shortbow. Even if you went with dual swords you could probably have two bursts of damage and that's all, Elementalist can still put more damage in the long run.

Every Elementalist has more CC than any Revenant. I don't think this needs further explanation.

Every Elementalist has more survival than any Revenant outside zergs. Permanent Protection, almost permanent Regeneration, more stability sources, Projectile reflection, up to two invulnerabilities, three If counting the downed skill (and one of them being also a stunbreak) and dashes at will (Revenant can mostly dash towards enemies unless you count Staff #5 as a dash. The only exception is the Shiro roll which is undertuned with excessive energy cost). 

What exactly sounds hyperbolic? I know the Elementalist meta is deep on memes about Ele being weak and low on HP, but that has little importance when you have so many tools for every situations. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Thon.3780]

If you don’t want to be hit by bow. Pls ask ANET to release rev on hammer or revert torment mechanic back .

 

now rev have on,y few build that work. That why you see many phew phew bow. Coz all workable build are already nerf….

 

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's a little unfair. Just because lowest played doesn't mean Rev's haven't been a significant part of the meta for a better part of their existence. There are LOTS of reasons a class could be lowest played, but there is only one reason it's meta. 

 

I think Engineers are lowest played tbh, especially since they were around before Rev and still managed to remain about as popular. Buuut I think one would be hard pressed to assert a profession's skillset to be the most effective available all the time when it is absolutely not a popular profession. Clearly something about its effectiveness is lacking in that case. Like I said I don't often rely on the popularity argument but the post I was replying was asserting an extreme, and that just does not seem to be the case. Revenants were very powerful at launch, but then they got a nerf bat to the face.

[Obtena.7952]

50 minutes ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

I think Engineers are lowest played tbh, especially since they were around before Rev and still managed to remain about as popular. Buuut I think one would be hard pressed to assert a profession's skillset to be the most effective available all the time when it is absolutely not a popular profession. Clearly something about its effectiveness is lacking in that case. Like I said I don't often rely on the popularity argument but the post I was replying was asserting an extreme, and that just does not seem to be the case. Revenants were very powerful at launch, but then they got a nerf bat to the face.

No, I don't think one is hard pressed to assrt a profession's skillset to be effective based on it's popularity. Again, there are LOTS of reasons for a class to be popular that have nothing to do with the effectiveness of it's skillset. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[nosleepdemon.1368]

On 10/13/2021 at 12:02 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

No, I don't think one is hard pressed to assrt a profession's skillset to be effective based on it's popularity. Again, there are LOTS of reasons for a class to be popular that have nothing to do with the effectiveness of it's skillset. 

 

Uwotm8?

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

 

Uwotm8?

Yeah I don't know what that means. What's astounding to me is that you can't think of reasons other than skill effectiveness for people to choose a class to play that would result in making it popular. I can think of many. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah I don't know what that means. What's astounding to me is that you can't think of reasons other than skill effectiveness for people to choose a class to play that would result in making it popular. I can think of many. 

You'd save yourself a lot of grief if you just said what those reasons were.  However, they do have a point: it doesn't matter how many reasons there are to choose other professions.  If Rev has a selection bias a strong as being top tier in PVP/WvW, then it is much more difficult to think of reasons why it isn't chosen.  You'd have to explain why it is that theme and feel trump competitive viability in competitive game modes.  

[Aeolus.3615]

On 10/10/2021 at 5:08 PM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

(snip)

But I gotta admit, the AoE cleave of shortbow is too kitten good and easy to use. I believe it's a bit too quick and strong in the regard. Matches the shortbow theme, but as an espec weapon it may seem a bit too strong compared to say Torch from Berserker or Pistol from warrior. Double daggers are good, but MH is where it's at cause Shield remains number 1 OH for warriors. 

 

Ultimately, comparing all the factors I believe Rene shortbow is a tad stronger than your other weapon options. Both for Rev and many other classes. 

Well if the cleave ur talking is the auto  atk from bow  when  traited, its a range skill, and theres already good amount of absortions and  reflects to counter it.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

You'd save yourself a lot of grief if you just said what those reasons were.  However, they do have a point: it doesn't matter how many reasons there are to choose other professions.  If Rev has a selection bias a strong as being top tier in PVP/WvW, then it is much more difficult to think of reasons why it isn't chosen.  You'd have to explain why it is that theme and feel trump competitive viability in competitive game modes.  

Except I'm not saying it trumps it. I'm saying there are many more reasons than just effective skills to pick a class. Anyone that can't think of any other reason to pick a class except effective skills  is just being obtuse. 

Poster claims people are being daft because he believes their is a contradiction between low popularity and high effectiveness. There isn't ... a class can be very effective and still be not be popular to play ... because skill effectiveness isn't the only criteria people use to choose a class. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Aeolus.3615]

On 10/15/2021 at 1:05 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

xcept I'm not saying it trumps it. I'm saying there are many more reasons than just effective skills to pick a class. Anyone that can't think of any other reason to pick a class except effective skills  is just being obtuse. 

Poster claims people are being daft because he believes their is a contradiction between low popularity and high effectiveness. There isn't ... a class can be very effective and still be not be popular to play ... because skill effectiveness isn't the only criteria people use to choose a class. 

 

I think i got a good example of that:

Perma daze thief is still  possible, but since is slightly harder to start the daze spam towards target 90% if not all of players that play that build say its  impossible to do it, just because it went slightly harder and use a non meta build/ traits.

It went from super popular to no existent and yet  still possible and super mega efective(its  actually broken :P) if the thief manages the perma daze.

 

edit, trying to mantain Vindicator  as a power build mainly but with some support'ish.

Double edit(just noticed that edited the wrong post :) ) internet  is hard  for me...

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExzlZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSigJ/la0H-zRZYQhBG1QYwHRNLANsMUI-e

Edited October 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Sevenshot is OP, but Renegade is absolute garbage without it especially since they nerfed charged mists. So it kind of has to stay like this. 

 

[oscuro.9720]

Seven shot is not OP. Is it a strong ability? Yes. Is it OP? No. Clear animation, slow, low distance, requires LOS, easy to dodge, can be reflected. These all make it have counter play and not be what I would consider “OP”. 
I feel I can say that rather unbiased as well, as I main warrior and am kittening horrible on revenant. Please stop equating things that routinely kill you with things that are OP, this is how warrior got to where it is and it isn’t fun for anyone.
 

[solemn.9670]

In this thread:

 

Rev mains: "If you play full minstrel elementalist with water/arcane/barrier traits, they're un-killable! Can you imagine complaining while playing down-state class, am I right guys?! It's almost as if playing tank builds makes you tanky and Rev can do the exact same thing (but stronger because it's not an Ele). If an ele doesn't want to play a full tank build, shame them because other people do it, everything is fine, nothing to see here! Let's disregard the fact that some skills are inherently out of balance/inconsistent with the rest of the game, because you play elementalist and things that I don't understand make me uncomfortable. If I use rev to bait your defensive cooldowns with my unlimited DPS, and you no longer have anything to reflect/block/evade with, it's your own lack of skill, not the fact that Rev does too much damage. Elementalist is so over powered, that's why it's so common in every game mode, how could they complain? They're everywhere, everyone is playing elementalist because it's so good.

 

anyone who roams multi-class for more than a day:  the gaslighting is real... do we even play the same game?

 

For real, take that guy's advice. Play nothing but core ele for a year, come back when you see how much your effort/skill actually means to this game's meta.

 

Infinite life-force core necro, grenade scrapper, condi mirage, literally any rev build, shadow arts thief/dd/de, trap dh that can one-hit through mostly anything, pewpew soulbeast that somehow never dies but does 20k damage by pressing one button, endless CC spam on short cooldowns from warrior ... all of that is fine, it's clearly ele with it's one meta build (Fire Weaver) that is the issue. 😅 

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

In this thread:

 

Rev mains: "If you play full minstrel elementalist with water/arcane/barrier traits, they're un-killable! Can you imagine complaining while playing down-state class, am I right guys?! It's almost as if playing tank builds makes you tanky and Rev can do the exact same thing (but stronger because it's not an Ele). If an ele doesn't want to play a full tank build, shame them because other people do it, everything is fine, nothing to see here! Let's disregard the fact that some skills are inherently out of balance/inconsistent with the rest of the game, because you play elementalist and things that I don't understand make me uncomfortable. If I use rev to bait your defensive cooldowns with my unlimited DPS, and you no longer have anything to reflect/block/evade with, it's your own lack of skill, not the fact that Rev does too much damage. Elementalist is so over powered, that's why it's so common in every game mode, how could they complain? They're everywhere, everyone is playing elementalist because it's so good.

 

anyone who roams multi-class for more than a day:  the gaslighting is real... do we even play the same game?

 

For real, take that guy's advice. Play nothing but core ele for a year, come back when you see how much your effort/skill actually means to this game's meta.

 

Infinite life-force core necro, grenade scrapper, condi mirage, literally any rev build, shadow arts thief/dd/de, trap dh that can one-hit through mostly anything, pewpew soulbeast that somehow never dies but does 20k damage by pressing one button, endless CC spam on short cooldowns from warrior ... all of that is fine, it's clearly ele with it's one meta build (Fire Weaver) that is the issue. 😅 

That's a fascinating breakdown but 7shot doing 20K DPS consistently just isn't a truth in this game and no reason to change it. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Telgum.6071]

40 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

In this thread:

 

Rev mains: "If you play full minstrel elementalist with water/arcane/barrier traits, they're un-killable! Can you imagine complaining while playing down-state class, am I right guys?! It's almost as if playing tank builds makes you tanky and Rev can do the exact same thing (but stronger because it's not an Ele). If an ele doesn't want to play a full tank build, shame them because other people do it, everything is fine, nothing to see here! Let's disregard the fact that some skills are inherently out of balance/inconsistent with the rest of the game, because you play elementalist and things that I don't understand make me uncomfortable. If I use rev to bait your defensive cooldowns with my unlimited DPS, and you no longer have anything to reflect/block/evade with, it's your own lack of skill, not the fact that Rev does too much damage. Elementalist is so over powered, that's why it's so common in every game mode, how could they complain? They're everywhere, everyone is playing elementalist because it's so good.

 

anyone who roams multi-class for more than a day:  the gaslighting is real... do we even play the same game?

 

For real, take that guy's advice. Play nothing but core ele for a year, come back when you see how much your effort/skill actually means to this game's meta.

 

Infinite life-force core necro, grenade scrapper, condi mirage, literally any rev build, shadow arts thief/dd/de, trap dh that can one-hit through mostly anything, pewpew soulbeast that somehow never dies but does 20k damage by pressing one button, endless CC spam on short cooldowns from warrior ... all of that is fine, it's clearly ele with it's one meta build (Fire Weaver) that is the issue. 😅 

I love how elementalist players always bring the downstate meme to serious conversations to try to deny how OP Elementalist is compared to the class they are talking about.

[solemn.9670]

3 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I love how elementalist players always bring the downstate meme to serious conversations to try to deny how OP Elementalist is compared to the class they are talking about.

1. Curious how many hours you have on elementalist? 

2. Can you do the same if you play it? I would be interested in seeing you 1v1 a top 100 pvp rev main while on your ele (without playing Fire weaver, because I'm all for hitting that with the nerf stick as well).

[Telgum.6071]

1 hour ago, solemn.9670 said:

1. Curious how many hours you have on elementalist? 

2. Can you do the same if you play it? I would be interested in seeing you 1v1 a top 100 pvp rev main while on your ele (without playing Fire weaver, because I'm all for hitting that with the nerf stick as well).

Your point: Elementalist is hard to play. Congratulations.

My point: Elementalist is OP and crying over Revenant, Dragonhunter or Ranger being OP while being an Elementalist player is ridiculous. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

15 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I love how elementalist players always bring the downstate meme to serious conversations to try to deny how OP Elementalist is compared to the class they are talking about.

The irony is that my comparison point for Sevenshot not being OP is Grenade Engineer and Celestial Weaver in WvW.  On those two specs, the skill is dodged, blocked, reflected, or it outright misses most of the time, and if it does hit then the conditions are cleansed away almost immediately.  Sure, Sevenshot is a scale 2.17 skill on a seven second cooldown, but I'm throwing out scale 1.5-2 skills every 4 seconds on a weaver.  I'm incredibly hard to kill on Scrapper, even in full Marauder gear.  I don't have the DPS output, but Sevenshot can't crack that endless wall of blocks and barriers that I'm throwing up.

After saying all of that, look at what the other weapons do for rev.  Sword/Sword has one skill with a power coefficient above 1.0, and that is Deathstrike at 1.7.  Staff's highest coefficient is 0.91 on Mender's Rebuke.  The Hammer has two at 1.15 and 1.2, but you can't hit anything with it in PVP/WvW.  The highest power DPS you can do on power rev in PVP/WvW is to toggle on Impossible Odds/Vengeful Hammers and auto attack, or if you're running herald you mash all of your facets as quickly as you can.  Power Rev has to mash every key in it's arsenal just to accomplish what Weaver does with Earthquake -> Pyro Vortex.

Or... you run shortbow.  This is what I mean when I say that everything else on rev is underpowered.  Shortbow Renegade just barely allows rev to compete in WvW, and yet you guys want it nerfed for some reason.  

 

[Sereath.1428]

It's been over a year and Coalescence of Ruin is still BUGGED

Edited October 23, 2021 by XxsdgxX.8109