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Whats behind the decision to go with an oversaturated and blurry shung jea monastery map?


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We've seen ingame footage of the map since the reveal and today as well with the newest video showcasing the area and a couple things stick out like a sore thump:   Why is it so uncharacteri

It’s been pointed out since the assets were first shown in that last fractal. The toxic grass look does not come across well at all and has been raised a few times. It won’t change of course, but yeah

Unfortunately the human eye doesn't distinguish between reality and fantasy.  There are literal physical rules that determine the whether certain colors, hues, saturation, clusters, ratios, etc. that

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Yeah my settings are fine. It would affect other parts of the game if there was an issue. Def not a settings issue, this is the new colour palette and new assets as previously talked about by the team after the release of sunquaa that would be used for upcoming content (it originally had also more assets from EOD that got removed before it was released)

Quoting myself: "To me it looks that only the teasers and some screenshots have bit too high color intensity."
To rephrase; to me the foliage in Sunqua and what is seen in the livestream gameplay videos do not look too bright or too green. We all have our own settings and preferences. I think it is far easier to change your own settings than to get Anet change their design choices. But we'll see how it actually looks when it is released.

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Just now, Jukhy.2431 said:

Quoting myself: "To me it looks that only the teasers and some screenshots have bit too high color intensity."
To rephrase; to me the foliage in Sunqua and what is seen in the livestream gameplay videos do not look too bright or too green. We all have our own settings and preferences. I think it is far easier to change your own settings than to get Anet change their design choices. But we'll see how it actually looks when it is released.

Except my settings are fine for the rest of the game - even PoF where the art style changed again post HoT. Im not going to change all my settings because they went with an excessive glow in clear difference with all prior areas and fractals which many have reported a dislike for.

 

Its fine if you and others like it, but let’s be clear - it’s not a settings issue, it’s the style the current artists decided on. I personally think it isn’t a good look and is jarring. I’m not under any illusion it’ll get changed, but it’s important to feedback if something is an issue. And this for me is something I think would benefit from aligning with the rest of the game.

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2 hours ago, Faridah.8431 said:

 

That looks far more true to the original atmosphere of Shing Jea.

 

The original looks like an irradiated portion of an alien planet map from Civilization: Beyond Earth.

 

 

Yes the color would be much nicer like that

however, we can really see that it is not just a problem of color. The textures and the environment  are very low end compared to the other extensions. And so different from the design of the guild wars 1 map .. ^^

there is something artificial with the rocks and the vegetation, i haven't seen this on gw2 until now.

Edited by radda.8920
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To be  honest here i think that what you are seeing is some of the bloom effect. They are obviously showing the videos in full graphic options, and bloom effect post processing shader effects on full. Even in the game now i turn many of those off because it makes the zones look far too what you call blurry and oversaturated. I think it will not look like that once you tone it down in options. Wooden potatoes did a good explanation on it in a video. he dont even turn those up. You would be surprised how much texture you loose turning up some of those options. 

Edited by Zuldari.3940
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48 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

 

Yes the color would be much nicer like that

however, we can really see that it is not just a problem of color. The textures and the environment  are very low end compared to the other extensions. And so different from the design of the guild wars 1 map .. ^^

there is something artificial with the rocks and the vegetation, i haven't seen this on gw2 until now.

Could also be an artistic direction I suppose. (See tree bark on trees in Kryta since launch).

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1 hour ago, aspirine.6852 said:

I really urge people working on EoD to fire up GW1 and visit Embark beach and/or shing jea Island.. After I went there the video is even more terrible.. 

Right, it may be 16 years old and have totally outdated graphics. It's so cool to explore, pleasent colors, perfect light, peaceful atmosphere.

Shing jea is really one of my best memories of guild wars 1, it saddens me to see this island turn into some kind of disgusting green salad. 

A shame. 

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13 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

https://imgur.com/a/90dY4Lh

 

heres a colour edit someone did and its so nicer on the eyes.

 

It's much better, that's for sure, but my disappointment is still present with the recycled textures and architectures that they were able to make ... Not sure that there is much to fix in there, the foundations even of the map are "economical", so ... For the rest I'm still disappointed, it is clearly not Shing Jea who is going to make me sell their extension, and since there is not much. .. I dare to hope that the scenario is up to the task: ') On the other hand, if it is to have only 3 maps (and the 4th in instance ?) it would hit the bottom of the hole and I would call it really mocking from the community. 🙄

 

For once, with all they revealed to us, the players who will have to choose between Endwalker and End of Dragons, the choice will be quickly made ...
So I hope we will have the rest of the other maps very quickly, just to get an idea of what it looks like ... 😩 I don't know about you, but I just feel like I'm seeing a bad joke with every feature announced on End of Dragons.

Edited by rylien.3824
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Okay, I'll throw an apparently unpopular opinion into this internet fire pit:

It's a fantasy game, so I'm okay with weird fantastical colors.  If you hate the colors, that's fair; I'm not exactly married to this color palette either.  I just don't find it to be as game-breakingly awful as everyone else seems to think it is.

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11 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

To be  honest here i think that what you are seeing is some of the bloom effect. They are obviously showing the videos in full graphic options, and bloom effect post processing shader effects on full. Even in the game now i turn many of those off because it makes the zones look far too what you call blurry and oversaturated. I think it will not look like that once you tone it down in options. Wooden potatoes did a good explanation on it in a video. he dont even turn those up. You would be surprised how much texture you loose turning up some of those options. 

Was trying to suggest this, albeit my post was poorly worded. I also have the bloom effect turned off and shaders tuned down since imo they are too bright for enjoyable gameplay experience.

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7 hours ago, Shin Ryu.5802 said:

Okay, I'll throw an apparently unpopular opinion into this internet fire pit:

It's a fantasy game, so I'm okay with weird fantastical colors.  If you hate the colors, that's fair; I'm not exactly married to this color palette either.  I just don't find it to be as game-breakingly awful as everyone else seems to think it is.

 

When have looked, it will be a year soon since the last episode of the Saga was published. 1 year without any content, nothing, all that to have a poor success as moldy as that of Bangar, which brings: nothing. And gain an extension as empty and poor as the episodes of the Saga. If we don't call that kitten-a-thon, what is it ? So to have sacrificed a Saga, a scenario, a license, to end up having wind and emptiness, it is anything but pleasant. It's normal for people to complain about the sudden, Anet clearly does not deserve to be more interested in their waste saturated. 🙄

 

Paying for "that" is what I call a big joke.
A shame even, what good has it been for the last 2-3 years after all ? To nothing. 

Even if it doesn't look like the one in Guild Wars 1, it is not even pleasant to look at, there is hardly any real work on this expansion, compared to Path of Fire or Heart of Thorns where we had anyway the minimum union ... artistic direction.
$ 30 to fish a pixelated trout, and farm / fill success to say "did something", I'm not interested. Because in addition it is the only real "content" (which they dare to call, because it is not) that they have to propose, at this moment there I prefer to fish on Genshin Impact, there at least there is interest and it is free.

 

On the other hand I do not understand the delirium of seeing a whole bunch of Tengus, even if there would be some clandestine "remains" ... to see so many roaming all over Shing Jea, while have is in dictatorship, and that there are patrols ... well ... 😩

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12 hours ago, Shin Ryu.5802 said:

Okay, I'll throw an apparently unpopular opinion into this internet fire pit:

It's a fantasy game, so I'm okay with weird fantastical colors.  If you hate the colors, that's fair; I'm not exactly married to this color palette either.  I just don't find it to be as game-breakingly awful as everyone else seems to think it is.

Oh don't get me wrong. It's not completely game breaking for me. Just more of a thinker on my part like "huh that's a really odd design decision". 

Perhaps this "dragon jade" irradiated the island. I don't know.

Frankly I am kinda tired of seeing Shing Jea over and over again at this stage. I hope they start showcasing some other areas like Kaineng, Echovald, Jade Sea. I'm somewhat concerned about what design decisions they made with them.

Edited by Faridah.8431
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As someone who has been teaching artists for a couple decades, it looks to me like the common beginner mistake of trying to depict lush foliage with over saturated greens. It’s such a normal trap for a young artist to make.

The puzzling thing is that there’s no reason this expansion should have been designed entirely by beginners.

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I have this problem with majority of the maps they've produced in the past too.
It's not just Shing Jea that looks absolutely over-saturated and like an eye-sore, it's also Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, Bloodstone, Bitterfrost, PoF and LS4 maps as well (we are in the desert, so we don't really see it, but it is THERE, just look at your character, you can't even see details on your armor due to how 'contrasted' the lighting is).

Core maps have a MUCH better lighting and way better colors, nicer to the eye too. In Core zones you can also see your armor details and colors well; whereas all the new maps just kill that. 
Shing Jea is atrocious for eyes... sadly. :S 
It's a wonderful remake, but the light/colors are killing all the magic and serenity that zone had in GW1.

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Guys, they're leading with bubble gum happy vibes in order to juxtapose the dark gritty horror or warfare that will follow.

 

Also, I think they should leave that poor npc girl without arms, and add a few more npcs lacking limbs into shing jea island to foreshadow some more.

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19 hours ago, Shin Ryu.5802 said:

Okay, I'll throw an apparently unpopular opinion into this internet fire pit:

It's a fantasy game, so I'm okay with weird fantastical colors.  If you hate the colors, that's fair; I'm not exactly married to this color palette either.  I just don't find it to be as game-breakingly awful as everyone else seems to think it is.

It's a fantasy game but also a sequel. If Anet made a completely different game I might like this zone, but this doesn't resemble Cantha one bit so far which is worrying.

 

People who asked specifically for Cantha wanted Cantha, not generic weeb stuff

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God after this live, I'm even more shocked than before, it is not only a problem of colors but even the textures and the buildings with a chinese style which does not correspond at all to cantha....

it's a disaster, gw1's shing jea map looks much more beautiful even with 16 years old graphics.

 

 

Edited by radda.8920
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21 hours ago, Shin Ryu.5802 said:

Okay, I'll throw an apparently unpopular opinion into this internet fire pit:

It's a fantasy game, so I'm okay with weird fantastical colors.  If you hate the colors, that's fair; I'm not exactly married to this color palette either.  I just don't find it to be as game-breakingly awful as everyone else seems to think it is.

Unfortunately the human eye doesn't distinguish between reality and fantasy.  There are literal physical rules that determine the whether certain colors, hues, saturation, clusters, ratios, etc. that are pleasing to the eye and human perspective.  If it doesn't look good here, it's because it doesn't look good!  And regardless of whether you can suspend disbelief, your brain will continue to remind you that it doesn't look good.

There's a staggering amount of things in this new map scheme that break those rules, colors being only a small piece of that.

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  • UV map positioning seems off in certain areas of structures
  • Color texture maps sRGB 8-bit/16-bit values (0-255) needs a check?
  • Blurry textures due to 'pixel' resolution size of texture map that needs to be scaled correctly based on geometry unit size -> needs fine-tuning by multiples of 8 (128, 256, 1024 etc.)
  • ‘Mid-point’ Greyscale + Hue needs to be re-aligned for all texture mid-point colors (avoids splotches + super black spots)
  • Black spots due to ‘subtractive’ shading/shadow maps and dark texture colormaps stacked on top of each other
  • Super bright white spots due to high brightness texture color maps stacked ontop of high hue yellows & a bright light source/shader (similar to a photo taken with over exposure light - additive on the sRGB 0-255 scale)
  • Lighting/Shading/Shadow maps missing or needs fine-tuning (might be due to ‘work-in-progress’?)
  • Normal maps, displacement maps, bump maps, ambient occlusion maps seems to be missing
  • Review of color theory might be needed - create harmonious themes/colors/shaders with the light/dark/hue/saturation pallets, hope these help 👍

Color theory: (skip the ads):

Example reference (warmer - dawn - blurred shadows - cloudy orange theme):

Example Reference (bright direct sunlight with heavy cooler water vapor - sharp shadows + blue theme)

 

Edited by Woop S.7851
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11 hours ago, Blur.3465 said:

I have this problem with majority of the maps they've produced in the past too.
It's not just Shing Jea that looks absolutely over-saturated and like an eye-sore, it's also Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, Bloodstone, Bitterfrost, PoF and LS4 maps as well (we are in the desert, so we don't really see it, but it is THERE, just look at your character, you can't even see details on your armor due to how 'contrasted' the lighting is).

Now that you mention it, yeah that is very true. In particular Ember Bay has very bright orange glow lighting. Playing that map for the first times was likely the moment when I turned off/down a lot of the bloom and shaders.

I think the issue with these videos is that since Anet wants to show Cantha in it's full "glory", they have every setting on max detail with all the bloom. Rember that you do not have to play the game in such eye-sore brightness.

 

Edited by Jukhy.2431
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10 hours ago, Woop S.7851 said:
  • UV map positioning seems off in certain areas of structures
  • Color texture maps sRGB 8-bit/16-bit values (0-255) needs a check?
  • Blurry textures due to 'pixel' resolution size of texture map that needs to be scaled correctly based on geometry unit size -> needs fine-tuning by multiples of 8 (128, 256, 1024 etc.)
  • ‘Mid-point’ Greyscale + Hue needs to be re-aligned for all texture mid-point colors (avoids splotches + super black spots)
  • Black spots due to ‘subtractive’ shading/shadow maps and dark texture colormaps stacked on top of each other?
  • Super bright white spots due to higher brightness texture color map stacked together with bright light source/shaders (similar to a photo taken with over exposure light - additive on the sRGB 0-255 scale)
  • Lighting/Shading/Shadow maps missing or needs fine-tuning (might be due to ‘work-in-progress’?)
  • Normal maps, displacement maps, normal maps, ambient occlusion maps seems to be missing
  • Review of color theory might be needed - create harmonious themes/colors/shaders with the light/dark/hue/saturation pallets, hope these help 👍

Color theory: (skip the ads):

Example reference (warmer - dawn - blurred shadows - cloudy orange theme):

Example Reference (bright direct sunlight with heavy cooler water vapor - sharp shadows + blue theme)

 

 

Oh yeah, it's not even comparable anymore, Genshin vs Guild Wars 2, there are 10 times more people working on it, with us it's just sloppy. On the other hand, I watched the twitch video, and they always seem to us to be the same place, rather than any shing-jea, or even the map, so I have the impression that they "hide" the rest from us as if the rest was sloppy, and from what I saw as soon as they left the village: only saw "empty" and pixelated sets, very low-end.


In my opinion, their video will have brought us very little that we did not already know. Its still doesn't make me want ... it's worrying. Not only has all my hype fallen (for a while) for End of Dragons, but besides, I think I'm starting to hate their game, as much as I despise those who have made these kinds of decisions to "rip off" players. Its beyond me such a mentality. They will reap what they sowed, salt. There is a lot of flora too, I noticed, to camouflage the "sidereal void" in addition to being an irradiated green.

Just seeing the sets have the impression that everything does not fit together, really felt that the work was done in a hurry. This thing is neither shing-jea nor Cantha. (While the concept art was not bad). It's incomprehensible and it's the first time that it has happened in Guild Wars 2.
 

To come to disgust it had to be done with me, too bad for them: they will be the loser. 

Making fun of their community is fine 5 minutes... 😒

 

I prefer to tackle Genshin Impact to take up the idea, at least they deserve the work done.

 

 

 

Edited by rylien.3824
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I don’t think it’s the bloom at all, it’s the color gamut. Take a look at Bioshock Infinite, notorious for its extreme use of bloom, but the tight color gamut keeps it from being an eyesore unless you just hate a lot of golden haze.

 

Edited by Gibson.4036
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