Big Nerf Patch, Year/s Later LOL

[Svarty.8019]

1 minute ago, LetoII.3782 said:

Crowfall went with the high time-to-kill approach

The servers should still be live for another few months, but I'd hurry

I'm aware that a lot the vast majority of advocates of short time-to-kill are bad at it. I can't understand why that is.

[LetoII.3782]

2 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:

I'm aware that a lot the vast majority of advocates of short time-to-kill are bad at it. I can't understand why that is.

People like not dying and don't like accepting personal responsibility?

Everyone hitting like a wet noodle makes it easier to run away when mistakes start to accumulate.

[Virdo.1540]

If you mean the cc nerf, i think it was an good idea. But they kinda got overnerfed.    If CC-Skills do dmg like 300 on zerker gear, it would be ok,  but 3dmg or less is trolling.

[Aeolus.3615]

Nerf minstrel rather than celestials, swap toughness in minstrell to precision

 

 

 

On 10/10/2021 at 1:47 PM, Virdo.1540 said:

If you mean the cc nerf, i think it was an good idea. But they kinda got overnerfed.    If CC-Skills do dmg like 300 on zerker gear, it would be ok,  but 3dmg or less is trolling.

For a first fase felt decent but skill endend lacking depth,  skills that KD and KB that get blocked should remove 1 stack of stability for example, or criple/chill target if target blocks,  some CC skills on gw1 had 2 effects if one fails aply other, imo this is where the combat should go.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Virdo.1540]

28 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Nerf minstrel rather than celestials, swap toughness in minstrell to precision

 

then everyone would run nomads gear with a little bit of minstrel

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

then everyone would run nomads gear with a little bit of minstrel

 

Would loose the boon duration tho wich is one of the mandatory stats to have all perma boons. :) wich imo is something that should rarelly hapen...

 

Would be better than 70% + of a omni blob uses minstrells

 

Minstrell need to be puted in pair with the current balance :) damage overall reduced and minstrell offers alot for the current state of the game over all stats reason theres alot of minstrell monoblobing.

Minstrell is a update do givers stats with the adition of Vitality, it nulifies the stats existend cause misntrell is better, its sorta design conflict. no other stats is defensive as Minstrell is.. (note i prefer this change rather than nerf  celestial).

Minstrell should be a variance of seraph / commander stats  and not a direct upgrade to  givers.

Prefix Major attribute(s) Minor attribute(s) Giver's  Toughness  Concentration  Healing Power Harrier's  Power  Healing Power  Concentration Vigilant  Power  Toughness  Concentration  Expertise Commander's  Power  Precision  Toughness  Concentration Wanderer's  Power  Vitality Toughness  Concentration Minstrel's  Toughness  Healing Power  Vitality  Concentration Seraph  Precision  Condition Damage  Healing Power  Concentration Plaguedoctor's  Vitality  Condition Damage  Healing Power  Concentration Diviner's  Power  Concentration  Precision  Ferocity Celestial

On 10/10/2021 at 12:30 PM, LetoII.3782 said:

People like not dying and don't like accepting personal responsibility?

Everyone hitting like a wet noodle makes it easier to run away when mistakes start to accumulate.

I think players started to call that to everything that kills fast mostly towards cheesy or very cheese builds but that  leaded a good portion of the players to rage against low tk builds or situations even when its not a cheese build.

Yet cheese build are still here like perma daze thief...

It's a bit of misinterpretation from the players and awfull Anet balance as well.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

this stat-crybabying does not really matter at all. you don't get farmed bc of the enemy supports running minstrels... most keepfarms would happen pretty much the same way with the full group using berserker gear.

 

would be more vulnerable to siegespam and singletarget focus by braindead glass cannon builds... yes. still, they'd also do more offensive work then and probably could just yolotrain over the uncoordinated defenders even harder.

 

the balance of anet is awful, since feb2020 at least. so many issue with the coefficient nerfs have just been ignore and still not worked on.

[Zephyrus.9680]

Strong disagree. Cheese is fun but really FPS games are the only games that should have 1-shotting. As-is I still get hit for  15ks sometimes from DHs (with 17K total HP). And then there's high-ping LB rangers that seem to do the equivalent of 1-shot (no reaction time).  Aside from that, just about everything else can be counterplayed or reacted to which is how it should work. 

 

I don't agree with the recent support scrapper buffs that no one asked for and how strong boonball comp groups are but that's something else. 

[Littlekenny.4196]

1 hour ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

Strong disagree. Cheese is fun but really FPS games are the only games that should have 1-shotting. As-is I still get hit for  15ks sometimes from DHs (with 17K total HP). And then there's high-ping LB rangers that seem to do the equivalent of 1-shot (no reaction time).  Aside from that, just about everything else can be counterplayed or reacted to which is how it should work. 

 

I don't agree with the recent support scrapper buffs that no one asked for and how strong boonball comp groups are but that's something else. 

I'm honestly surprised that people would prefer damage to be higher than it currently is. A lower ttk gives less opportunity to outplay and I can't imagine being able to zerg bust at all with more damage. I didn't start playing again until around march and to me the damage is a bit too high with things like the DHs mentioned here and berserkers and daredevils which hit even harder.

I'm also always surprised when I hear people complain about elementalist nerfs since they are strong roamers and in a zerg nothing can touch their damage.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the point is, oneshot crap always existed but always was avoidable and damage was wielded by any and every class and specs

 

now they d#mbed it down so only certain glassy kittenbuilds are able to deal real damage and the rest has the big honor to use skills on good angles and faceroll their keyboards to deal any damage on smaller scale

 

anet just showed that they miss the wider picture completely. players also do, but u cannot blame players. people always use the stuff they have available.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:12 PM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

the point is, oneshot crap always existed but always was avoidable and damage was wielded by any and every class and specs

 

now they d#mbed it down so only certain glassy kittenbuilds are able to deal real damage and the rest has the big honor to use skills on good angles and faceroll their keyboards to deal any damage on smaller scale

 

anet just showed that they miss the wider picture completely. players also do, but u cannot blame players. people always use the stuff they have available.

One  shot crap and high preparation builds  to burst target imo are 2 diferent things, there were alot of low effort builds back in the days, things now players need to put some more effort at least.

I   dont think  that only certain glassy builds can do damage, every one can but no one want to take the risk  reason the current hooarding and  stacking of misntrells and traiblazers, the risk to run power was less before since was not hard to powercreep targets  there didnt existed  a  real high risk  high reward  was a  bit balance bait to keep alowwing such gimmicks to exist, note that players dont have easy access to very very high damage anymore  and  the risk increased  since its harder to kill and player m8 outplay it in response, the nerf to damage and heals werent bad (note that my build got nerfed hard from 16k aoe heals every 3-4 sec to less than half Ç_Ç and  can  no longer output 10k+ regen persec double QQ).

I think the issue with damage is most players dont feel confident w/o powercreep gimmicks and most  went to tanky stats wich makes the "in between stats" be way less efective and easy meat towards DPS builds.

(EDIT)These "super tanky "stats need to be revised.

It has become a MIN MAX game.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Strider Pj.2193]

On 10/10/2021 at 7:20 AM, LetoII.3782 said:

Crowfall went with the high time-to-kill approach

The servers should still be live for another few months, but I'd hurry

Mhmm. 
 

I wonder why the push for that still exists as the trend for games for a long time has been more ‘twitchy’ games.  
 

I mean, I don’t mind a back and forth that takes a while, in fact I kind of prefer it, but many gamers get bored if it takes more than 30 seconds to a minute to kill something.  

[Xenesis.6389]

35 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

but many gamers get bored if it takes more than 30 seconds to a minute to kill something.  

 

They shouldn't be playing a mmorpg then. There's mmofps or regular fps games with br to play if they really want that fast ttk.

[Strider Pj.2193]

11 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

They shouldn't be playing a mmorpg then. There's mmofps or regular fps games with br to play if they really want that fast ttk.

Agreed.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

On 10/12/2021 at 6:54 PM, Littlekenny.4196 said:

I'm also always surprised when I hear people complain about elementalist nerfs since they are strong roamers and in a zerg nothing can touch their damage.

 

In zergs, Weavers do good damage cos its all about positioning and predicting which way enemy zerg is moving.

Plus some people think its fine to just stand in meteor shower so thats on them.

Weavers are usually bit behind on tag and can be easily focused cos they glassy.

I think other than Weaver as roaming..core Ele and Tempest just suck.

[LetoII.3782]

15 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Agreed.

Well, do you remember being young and impatient? Crowfall lent both ears to people like us.. The past -_-

But we're a fading demographic, and recreating the past for us is a poor way to move forward. Especially considering a game 'ala 2001 isn't really what we want, what we really want is for it to BE 2001 again xD

[HoneyBadger.5691]

Addressing a few of the points made after my post

 

Nerfing offensive skills hurts outnumbered fighting. Winning outnumbered in zergs largely revolves around doubling enough players before the rest can kill you. Roaming, it's a similar situation, where the patch made it a lot harder to secure a down outnumbered. The balance (if you can call it that) heavily favors difficult to kill builds, making it even worse.

 

Far too long this game has been about almost entirely catering to newbies, without concern for maintaining a healthy veteran and competitive community. With lots of hype over new games/expacs, and covid keeping less people at home, that stream of newbies is drying up quite a lot. Lots (most) vet/competitive players have left for greener pastures, and can look back on the heap of mistakes and unfulfilled promises from the developer that lead to this situation. However, they do seem to have shaken things up going into EoD, so it could be a fresh start for the state of the game and trust in the developer.

 

I'd really like to see it succeed.

[Telgum.6071]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:53 AM, Widmo.3186 said:

About those ques, in most cases id call them fake ones considering the amount of people you actually meet on the map. Another thing is that those occur on prime time and mostly in T1, which is probably the only MU id call 'alive'. 

Woah, so according to the forum users my guild was wrong when moved from a T4-T5 server with constant queues on prime to a T1-T2 server with almost no queue.

You either don't even play WvW at all, or for some reason think your server situation is the same of the rest of the servers.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

14 hours ago, HoneyBadger.5691 said:

Nerfing offensive skills hurts outnumbered fighting. Winning outnumbered in zergs largely revolves around doubling enough players before the rest can kill you. Roaming, it's a similar situation, where the patch made it a lot harder to secure a down outnumbered. The balance (if you can call it that) heavily favors difficult to kill builds, making it even worse.

 

Part of this problem is that while dmg was nerfed pretty hard, downstate was not. Resulting in downstate becoming a DPS sponge, and with the dmg nerfs resulting in being able to hard res someone while someone else is dropping all their CDs on the body, sorry, but this should not be possible. Res utility skill, CC, block, reflect etc etc are all fine counter play options, but "Push F" should not be after already getting a down in a 1vs2-3 fight.

 

 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/7/2021 at 2:24 AM, ASP.8093 said:

I like it.

A few classes need to have some damage put back on some of their CC skills

 

I would say most, maybe not as much as they all had, but they all should have had something layered back into them by now. Even the new skills on the new elites don't feel in good shape based on the idea that CC means no damage. We never got the second phase of this patch which was tune them up after a period.

[KrHome.1920]

The biggest issue with sustain in WvW is boon sharing and condition conversion. Every shared boon / converted condition should have a base duration of 1 second (2 seconds with +100% boon duration) on the target.

If this is included there are only a handful of problematic skills that need to be looked at - e.g. aoe rezzes and bloated skills like dolyak stance or shadowstep should not exist.

Edited November 1, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Xenesis.6389]

They're giving Specter wells shadowstep/heals/barrier/alacrity/Rat wallow Venom, they might as well roll back the damage patch to  when "things did too many things at once" and give cc's their damage back. Wvw needs to be buried in bloated combat garbage.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[Gorem.8104]

Its funny though, just by playing the actual game in wvw you can tell what certain classes needs buffs or even individual traits or weapon skills, and yet a lot of nerfs are just flat across the board, like the cc nerf which removed warrior hammer from the entire game. While effecting everyone. 

Like, at least Scourges finally got their nerf, long LONG time coming to finally not see them everywhere destroying everything easily without even having to try as they face-rolled over their keyboard. 

Condi builds are only good for example, entirely due to the Trailblazer gear set. If they couldn't both extend the duration, increase its damage, while making them as tough as a tank we'd most likely never see Condi builds in wvw. So how do you balance that exactly? Condi has a sheer advantage over power entirely because of a gear stat set. If they didn't have that gear set, would anyone actually play Condi? Sure you can get away with viper or dire maybe, but they are nowhere near as strong as Trailblazer when it comes to roaming potential. 

 

Honestly it is really hard for them I bet to balance things, but seriously, buff warrior so its actually played in pvp a little bit. There's a reason there was 0 warriors in recent tournaments and yet the nerfed minionmancer still is on the winning team. 

[Gorem.8104]

6 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

They're giving Specter wells shadowstep/heals/barrier/alacrity/Rat wallow Venom, they might as well roll back the damage patch to  when "things did too many things at once" and give cc's their damage back. Wvw needs to be buried in bloated combat garbage.

From what I saw in the last beta I fear Spectre/Mechanist the most out of all EoD elites. Spectre duo roaming is brokenly op, being able to never die while being able to escape at a whim while killing in the middle of decent sized groups as they barely scratch you or your mate. Then you have the Mechanist which mech AA's people through stealth/clones so the dps stays on you even when trying to run away, with yes sounds awesome if you are the mechanist... oh wait actually keep that screw stealth and clones. 

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

If they didn't have that gear set, would anyone actually play Condi? Sure you can get away with viper or dire maybe, but they are nowhere near as strong as Trailblazer when it comes to roaming potential. 

Lol trailblazer is nowhere near as strong as you think it is. In fact dire is better because, you know, good opponents actually bring condi cleanses nullifying that condi duration.

Also "getting away" with vipers lol... glass cannon condi is no match to glass cannon power in most cases. There is a reason why condi bunkers are the only viable counter to the stupid strong power builds, especially once they stack above 1 enemy.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Dawdler.8521