About the Halloween jumping puzzle requirement...

[Veprovina.4876]

Is it just me or is Anet colosally disconnected from the community?

 

Each year, there's threads upon threads about how most people can't do the JP, a lot of them due to disability (minor or major), and each year (as far as i know - correct me if i'm wrong), it only had its own achievment which you didn't have to do and whatever, you didn't get Lunatic boots or 3 trick or treat bags or whatever... It wasn't connected to any other achievment, or the meta achievment had a -1 requirement for compeltion - like the annual meta still has.

 

So with year after year voicing the discomfort with the JP from the community - this year it's mandatory to finish the meta achievement.

 

So, if you have any type of disability that prevents you from having twitch perfect reflexes - tough luck! You don't get to finish the achievement this year.

How did Anet allow this, seriously, are they really so ignorant of what the community has been saying year after year? Especially parts of the community with disabilities.

 

What do you think of this?

It seems at the very least rude from Anet to demand people do the one thing that everyone has been complaining about for years, especially because that excludes people with disabilities completely.

 

Am i just overreacting and this is a non issue? If i am,cool, Anet can just delete this thread...

Or is it finally time to put that JP to rest and just leave it for who wants to do it?

Edited October 6, 2021 by Veprovina.4876

[mythical.6315]

It’s still not mandatory. There are 10 achievements and you only need 9. 

[radda.8920]

10 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

 

So, if you have any type of disability that prevents you from having twitch perfect reflexes - tough luck! You don't get to finish the achievement this year.

 

 

I don't understand this argument at all

So arena would be supposed to adapt all of the content with all types of disabilities in mind? but there would be absolutely no form of challenge or interest for people who have no problems

Edited October 6, 2021 by radda.8920

[Infusion.7149]

If you mean the meta achievement it is optional since there's more than enough achievements to finish it without the JP.

If you mean the 5AP from Court Duty: Terror of the Tower (which is for Court Duty: Gathering Evidence  which is 2AP), you don't need to get to the end since opening any chests along the way progresses it.

[Raknar.4735]

You're just overreacting. Especially if you consider what you've said once about some other content in another thread:

On 3/26/2021 at 2:37 AM, Veprovina.4876 said:

But no, i don't see them changing anything because they're there to make people interested in those game modes.IF you want a specific armor, you do that mode. If you only play open world, well, you don't really need a legendary do you? Exotic is fine, there's nothing in overworld that requires balanced stats and infusions...

If you want a specific reward, you do that content. You don't really need the meta achievement, it just gives out a skin. There's no content that requires skins... (Stick to your own words! Else you'll sound like a hypocrite!)

Also given what the previous posters said, you don't even need the JP for the Meta achiev. So yes, you're overreacting and trying to hide behind the "Anet is disconnected from the community" shield.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Is it just me or is Anet colosally disconnected from the community?

 

Each year, there's threads upon threads about how most people can't do the JP, a lot of them due to disability (minor or major), and each year (as far as i know - correct me if i'm wrong), it only had its own achievment which you didn't have to do and whatever, you didn't get Lunatic boots or 3 trick or treat bags or whatever... It wasn't connected to any other achievment, or the meta achievment had a -1 requirement for compeltion - like the annual meta still has.

 

So with year after year voicing the discomfort with the JP from the community - this year it's mandatory to finish the meta achievement.

 

So, if you have any type of disability that prevents you from having twitch perfect reflexes - tough luck! You don't get to finish the achievement this year.

How did Anet allow this, seriously, are they really so ignorant of what the community has been saying year after year? Especially parts of the community with disabilities.

 

What do you think of this?

It seems at the very least rude from Anet to demand people do the one thing that everyone has been complaining about for years, especially because that excludes people with disabilities completely.

 

Am i just overreacting and this is a non issue? If i am,cool, Anet can just delete this thread...

Or is it finally time to put that JP to rest and just leave it for who wants to do it?

Yes, I think you're overreacting here, since -as always- there's more annual acheivements than you need to complete for the meta reward. And please stop repeating "but what if someone has disabilities" -it really sucks, it's true, but there's no way to make sure everyone will get rewarded without trivializing the whole content for the rest of the playerbase.

No, it's not "time to put jp to rest". You don't somehow deserve every reward by default and this is still an action mmorpg. Demanding for the game to scrap movement-based challenges/events/achievements seems unwarranted.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758
"and" -> "an"

[AgentMoore.9453]

3 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

If you want a specific reward, you do that content. You don't really need the meta achievement, it just gives out a skin.

Sure, but it also feels Real Bad if the meta achievement for a fun festival is unobtainable through fun effort (which many do not find the JP to be). People feel similarly when the meta achievement for living story requires some sort of crazy feat - it's not that metas can't contain crazy feats, it's just disappointing when they're a hard-baked requirement. I feel like wiggle room is important for metas to cater to GW2's variable audience.

That said, you only need 9 of the 10 annuals to get the meta reward, so this year it's not really an issue.

[Veprovina.4876]

20 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s still not mandatory. There are 10 achievements and you only need 9. 

No, not the annual, the other one.

If you want to do the Court Duty ones, you need to do the JP.

 

13 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

So arena would be supposed to adapt all of the content with all types of disabilities in mind? but there would be absolutely no form of challenge or interest for people who have no problems

Well it's 2021, would be nice, but no, that's not the argument, nor do i expect them to do that.

They had a choice, and based on all the previous years worth of info they had, they consciously decided to mandate doing the JP in order to complete this years acheivement, the court duty ones, knowing that it's impossible to do for most people no matter how hard they try. 

They could have just put something else there, or even an alternative.

 

15 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you mean the meta achievement it is optional since there's more than enough achievements to finish it without the JP.

If you mean the 5AP from Court Duty: Terror of the Tower (which is for Court Duty: Gathering Evidence  which is 2AP), you don't need to get to the end since opening any chests along the way progresses it.

Court Duty ones. You need to do them to finish the set, one leads to unlocking another etc, no?

Also, i'm not sure how someone with visual impairment or even arm/wrist damage can get to even the first chest. I'm mostly fine and i can't reach the first chest.

I'd actually agree with you and not even post the thread if the JP was static and you could use the Portable REwinder, but it's not, it's a PvP are.

 

3 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

You're just overreacting. Especially if you consider what you've said once about some other content in another thread:

If you want a specific reward, you do that content. You don't really need the meta achievement, it just gives out a skin. There's no content that requires skins...

(Also given what the previous posters said, you don't even need the JP for the Meta achiev. So yes, you're overreacting and trying to hide behind the "Anet is disconnected from the community" shield.)

True. And i'd agree with you if the JP wasn't the very topic of discontent for years.

Anet had a choice here, and decided to mandate what's impossible for a lot of people.

And i'd actually just say "git gud" and do it IF the JP was static and you could use a position rewinder, but it's not. 

I don't get the "hide" comment, what am i hiding behind that shield? I'm gonna do it, i'll eventually reach that first chest, it just seems very "slap in the face" to a lot of people without any reason whatsoever.

 

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, I think you're overreacting here, since -as always- there's more meta acheivements than you need to complete for the reward. And please stop repeating "but what if someone has disabilities" -it really sucks, it's true, but there's no way to make sure everyone will get rewarded without trivializing the whole content for the rest of the playerbase.

No, it's not "time to put jp to rest". You don't somehow "deserve every reward by default" and this is still and action mmorpg. Demanding the game to scrap movement-based challenges/events/achievements seems unwarranted.

Well, in this instance, yes it was very easy to make sure everyone can participate.

They could have just not made the JP mandatory. Problem solved.

I won't even commnet on the rest, part of it was covered in my replies to previous people, part of it i just don't get..

[Vidit.7108]

The poster isn't talking about the Annual Meta, they're talking about this new little story Meta in the other tab.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Is it just me or is Anet colosally disconnected from the community?

 

Each year, there's threads upon threads about how most people can't do the JP, a lot of them due to disability (minor or major), and each year (as far as i know - correct me if i'm wrong), it only had its own achievment which you didn't have to do and whatever, you didn't get Lunatic boots or 3 trick or treat bags or whatever... It wasn't connected to any other achievment, or the meta achievment had a -1 requirement for compeltion - like the annual meta still has.

 

So with year after year voicing the discomfort with the JP from the community - this year it's mandatory to finish the meta achievement.

 

So, if you have any type of disability that prevents you from having twitch perfect reflexes - tough luck! You don't get to finish the achievement this year.

How did Anet allow this, seriously, are they really so ignorant of what the community has been saying year after year? Especially parts of the community with disabilities.

 

What do you think of this?

It seems at the very least rude from Anet to demand people do the one thing that everyone has been complaining about for years, especially because that excludes people with disabilities completely.

 

Am i just overreacting and this is a non issue? If i am,cool, Anet can just delete this thread...

Or is it finally time to put that JP to rest and just leave it for who wants to do it?

If my disabled friend with only one hand can do this JP, you can too.

[Sobx.1758]

53 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Well, in this instance, yes it was very easy to make sure everyone can participate.

They could have just not made the JP mandatory. Problem solved.

"...without trivializing content". You might dislike JPs, but it doesn't change the fact that other people don't and it is part of the game. If "dropping it" is your "solution" here, then why not drop everything else (because everything is disliked by someone) and just give out the rewards instead? Well... because that's not the point of rewards.

(and you don't need "twitch reflexes" here, it's more about right timing which can be solved through memorization/repetition -the whole thing is repeated at the same pace)

Quote

I won't even commnet on the rest, part of it was covered in my replies to previous people, part of it i just don't get..

Interesting -which parts did you not get?

 

54 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Also, i'm not sure how someone with visual impairment or even arm/wrist damage can get to even the first chest. I'm mostly fine and i can't reach the first chest.

See, so you're mostly fine, but you still try using other people's potential disabilities to just make the rewards easier to get. In my book, that's not exactly ok to do.

Not only that, but it's just a mini and a few achievement points. You surely have many more things to unlock, even if you disregard anything connected to that -or any other- jumping puzzle.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Vayne.8563]

For those that don't know you don't actually have to finish this puzzle. You only have to learn the puzzle long enough to get to the first chest. Open it. Do that enough times and you'll have the points you need to finish the achievement without finishing the puzzle.  Whether you like the puzzle or not because irrelevant because you don't have to do the whole thing. 

I'd say the first chest is easy enough for the vast majority of people to learn.

[Danikat.8537]

If you're struggling to complete the Court Duty achievements for any reason it may be helpful to know the final reward is a purely cosmetic item which some players won't be interested in. It's:

Spoiler

a mini Spectral Palawa Joko

Other than that you get 20AP and a small number of personalised ToT bags. There's also the story of course, but you could get that from a video or the Wiki, which I know isn't the same but it's an option.

I'm not saying don't do it of course, I'm definitely going to complete it if I can, but I know the reward won't appeal to everyone and it would be a shame if someone wasted their time forcing themselves through content they don't enjoy or cannot complete for something they may not even want.

 

1 hour ago, radda.8920 said:

I don't understand this argument at all

So arena would be supposed to adapt all of the content with all types of disabilities in mind? but there would be absolutely no form of challenge or interest for people who have no problems

Making content more accessible to people with disabilities does not necessarily mean making it easier. For example one of the people who cannot do the jumping puzzle is blind and what they've asked for is a sound effect to indicate where platforms are so they can find them and therefore jump onto them. I can't imagine that would remove all challenge for sighted players, most probably wouldn't notice it and those who did would probably consider it an irrelevant bit of background noise.

Likewise some people have asked for a version which rewards less progress on the achievement and no/fewer ToT bags but doesn't have a timer. For people who are able to do the jumping puzzle now the timer is largely irrelevant - it's fairly common to get to the top with time to spare and have to wait for the window to break to get in, so removing it wouldn't make it any easier but it would be a big help for people who cannot react that quickly.

Finally the action camera already made it easier for people with some physical disabilities (or RSI) by removing the need to hold down the right mouse button throughout, but didn't change the content itself at all.

[mythical.6315]

53 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

No, not the annual, the other one.

If you want to do the Court Duty ones, you need to do the JP.

That’s not really a meta achievement or at least not one people would likely consider as such. 
 

You only need to open the first chest 20 times over the course of the festival which is fairly doable for all types of players. 

[radda.8920]

11 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

If you're struggling to complete the Court Duty achievements for any reason it may be helpful to know the final reward is a purely cosmetic item which some players won't be interested in. It's:

  Reveal hidden contents

a mini Spectral Palawa Joko

Other than that you get 20AP and a small number of personalised ToT bags. There's also the story of course, but you could get that from a video or the Wiki, which I know isn't the same but it's an option.

I'm not saying don't do it of course, I'm definitely going to complete it if I can, but I know the reward won't appeal to everyone and it would be a shame if someone wasted their time forcing themselves through content they don't enjoy or cannot complete for something they may not even want.

 

Making content more accessible to people with disabilities does not necessarily mean making it easier. For example one of the people who cannot do the jumping puzzle is blind and what they've asked for is a sound effect to indicate where platforms are so they can find them and therefore jump onto them. I can't imagine that would remove all challenge for sighted players, most probably wouldn't notice it and those who did would probably consider it an irrelevant bit of background noise.

Likewise some people have asked for a version which rewards less progress on the achievement and no/fewer ToT bags but doesn't have a timer. For people who are able to do the jumping puzzle now the timer is largely irrelevant - it's fairly common to get to the top with time to spare and have to wait for the window to break to get in, so removing it wouldn't make it any easier but it would be a big help for people who cannot react that quickly.

Finally the action camera already made it easier for people with some physical disabilities (or RSI) by removing the need to hold down the right mouse button throughout, but didn't change the content itself at all.

 

ok , seems like a good idea to me, I hadn't understood it that way.

As long as it doesn't harm the experience of other players, why not. But it would take a really long time for them to adapt each type of content the way you say it, and I'm not sure they have that time.

Edited October 6, 2021 by radda.8920

[Veprovina.4876]

42 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

For those that don't know you don't actually have to finish this puzzle. You only have to learn the puzzle long enough to get to the first chest. Open it. Do that enough times and you'll have the points you need to finish the achievement without finishing the puzzle.  Whether you like the puzzle or not because irrelevant because you don't have to do the whole thing. 

I'd say the first chest is easy enough for the vast majority of people to learn.

That chest is once a day i think, it gives 5 points, and not everyone can even reach it in the first place. It's yes, technically doable without doing the entire JP but, this thread is not about only the JP, but how Anet deliberately decided to make it mandatory for certain achievements this year.

It could have been the easiest thing to make it a separate achievement, not required for "the big one", the story focused one (not annual, i know annual doesn't require it), and include more people in it. 

 

Why didn't they? Why did they consciously decide to exclude people from the thing when they know for a fact it's the hardest in the game.

[Vayne.8563]

8 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

That chest is once a day i think, it gives 5 points, and not everyone can even reach it in the first place. It's yes, technically doable without doing the entire JP but, this thread is not about only the JP, but how Anet deliberately decided to make it mandatory for certain achievements this year.

It could have been the easiest thing to make it a separate achievement, not required for "the big one", the story focused one (not annual, i know annual doesn't require it), and include more people in it. 

 

Why didn't they? Why did they consciously decide to exclude people from the thing when they know for a fact it's the hardest in the game.

The chest is right near the beginning  and though it has a cooldown it can be opened several times a day. Source, I opened the chest at least twice yesterday. I couldn't do it in back to back runs, though, so there is a cool down. 

So people have five weeks to open that chest 20 times and I'd wager the vast majority of people can get to this chest. It's pretty close to the beginning. If they get further, to the gear, they can open two chests, which would make it faster.

Edit: What's the difference anyway. This isn't some huge meta achievement. Someone missed out on some achievement points, and 3 personalized trick or treat bags. How, exactly this is different from Turai Ossa and Liadri in the Queens' Pavillion?

Edited October 6, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

That chest is once a day i think

It refreshes, but I'm not sure if it's per round, per completion, or by some other metric. It's definitely not a once-a-day thing though. To answer your other question about disabilities, I've come to like this puzzle, but I often fail it because of lag or bugs (pieces not loading in correctly/desyncing/etc), so there's plenty that can get in your way even without a relevant diagnosis.

Your OP didn't make it immediately clear to me which meta achievement you were referring to, but in terms of wiggle room, letting people hit the first chest repeatedly instead of making them complete the puzzle for all-or-nothing cred does seem like a fair way to include the JP without demanding perfection. It's slower than if you complete the puzzle and smack chests all the way up, but it's still do-able for more people than just the best jumpers.

[Veprovina.4876]

43 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The chest is right near the beginning  and though it has a cooldown it can be opened several times a day. Source, I opened the chest at least twice yesterday. I couldn't do it in back to back runs, though, so there is a cool down. 

So people have five weeks to open that chest 20 times and I'd wager the vast majority of people can get to this chest. It's pretty close to the beginning. If they get further, to the gear, they can open two chests, which would make it faster.

Edit: What's the difference anyway. This isn't some huge meta achievement. Someone missed out on some achievement points, and 3 personalized trick or treat bags. How, exactly this is different from Turai Ossa and Liadri in the Queens' Pavillion?

 

42 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

It refreshes, but I'm not sure if it's per round, per completion, or by some other metric. It's definitely not a once-a-day thing though. To answer your other question about disabilities, I've come to like this puzzle, but I often fail it because of lag or bugs (pieces not loading in correctly/desyncing/etc), so there's plenty that can get in your way even without a relevant diagnosis.

Your OP didn't make it immediately clear to me which meta achievement you were referring to, but in terms of wiggle room, letting people hit the first chest repeatedly instead of making them complete the puzzle for all-or-nothing cred does seem like a fair way to include the JP without demanding perfection. It's slower than if you complete the puzzle and smack chests all the way up, but it's still do-able for more people than just the best jumpers.

Yes, i agree with you both that this is true IF people can reach the first chest. I'm not debating that.

I'm mearly asking that given the choice to include as many people as they can by having the JP be its own thing, or excluding a lot of people, why did anet chose to exclude?

 

23 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

I've mentioned the rewinder being a "cheat" because it isn't common to be able to cheat content that way.

Most other content, for example Queen's Gauntlet, Fractals, Raids, PvP, WvW etc. don't have a way to be completed or made trivial by some item or a mesmer portal. The Wintersday JP, the Halloween one, as well as the WvW ones are also part of those that can't be trivialized.

Queen's gauntlet is its' own achievement, it's not required for another. Fractals you never do alone, worst case scenario, your friends carry you, PvP and WvW the same. In WvW even, if someone wants the rewards and can't do it, a commander can share participation with you and you can just afk and move your toon every 10 minutes. That's about as trivial as it gets. There's lots of alternative ways to completing everything you listed, and making it more or less trivial. Even WIntersday has an easy mode where you can take your time on it.

Quote

So yes, it is hypocritical to say that e.g. other content, in your case the attainability of legendary armour quoted in my first response is fine, as you don't need it in OW, while for some reason making a fuss about not being able to finish some side achievements that aren't even meta achievements and only reward a mini-pet. I'd wager that raiding to attain the legendary raid skins is many times harder and even less inclusive to people with disablities, yet you defended that.

So yes again, comparing apples and oranges, so this is the second time you made the same argiment.

Raiding you don't need to do solo. I'm not sure you even can. So again, false argument. 

legendary armor can be obtained by trivializing and sharing participation like i said, you just need some human beings that wwant to help and have empathy. Someone can do the same for raiding and getting raid rewards so instead of selling raids which clearly doesn't require all 10 people to give their best, 9 can carry the 1 - instead of sellling, someone can help disabled people get the boss. It just takes being human.

So this is again you comparing apples to oranges the second time, and i'm not responding anymore to the third time you make the same faulty argument.

 

This is a time based highly reactionary exclusively solo content without any help whatsoever or an alternative way of doing it.

Nothing you said as an example comes even close = not the same argument i'm making. 

 

Anet had a choice here to include or exclude people based on previous information gathered throughout the years. They chose to exclude. Why?

Quote

It's very disingenuous of you to try to use people with disabilities to push your own opinion of the halloween JP.

It's disingenuous of me to use myself to express my opinion on the halloween JP?

What are you talking about? 

 

I'm also not having an opinion on the JP but on how Anet could have included as many people as they can but chose not to BY making the JP mandatory. After that, the JP opinion doesn't matter much.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Veprovina.4876

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm also not having an opinion on the JP

But... you clearly do. This whole thread is your opinion about JP and how it shouldn't be included in the halloween reward system, because you dislike/can't complete it.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Shrimpkin.4851]

As I posted in another thread about this topic, I've never been able to complete this jp in 8 years of trying.  I've never made it past the first part where the pieces fall down, so if there's a chest I won't get it. 

 

If there was some program or whatnot to help me complete things despite my disablity I would gladly use it but there isn't, and the ableism being expressed is disheartening.  I don't think anyone is asking for all content to be made super easy but just to take all factors into consideration. 

 

Providing multiple options doesn't impact anyone negatively.  And yes, it's just a mini, but I like collecting them, the same as other people collect the things they like.

[Raknar.4735]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm mearly asking that given the choice to include as many people as they can by having the JP be its own thing, or excluding a lot of people, why did anet chose to exclude?

I wish you were about inclusivity  in all the other content that excludes a lot of people, yet you defended that content instead.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Queen's gauntlet is its' own achievement,

Yeah, and these side halloween achievements are their own little achievements. And their reward is also comparable to the queen's gauntlet ones, a cosmetic mini-pet that isn't needed for any content.

They aren't even meta achievements like you originally said, which caused a whole lot of confusion.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

This is a time based highly reactionary exclusively solo content without any help whatsoever or an alternative way of doing it.

Nothing you said as an example comes even close = not the same argument i'm making. 

Every other content type fits if you just are talking about accessability for people with disabilities in content. Content where your only way to beat it is being carried is not content accessible to players with disabilities. Do you just tell someone that lost his legs and wants to be a runner to let someone else run for him, while carrying him on his back? I'd say giving him prosthetics to be able to run is the way to go.

The same way you're saying others could carry you ingame, you could just let someone IRL without a disability help you beat that one JP. It just takes being human, after all. I bet Anet wouldn't act on that, seing as they've already let children beat it on their parent's account.

Saying "apples to oranges" to deflect is a poor tactic.

Moving the goalpost to "highly reactionary exclusively solo content without any help whatsoever" is a stretch, but even then Queen's gauntlet would still fit. It even has the comparable mini-pet reward of mini liadry.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Anet had a choice here to include or exclude people based on previous information gathered throughout the years. They chose to exclude. Why?

It's disingenuous of me to use myself to express my opinion on the halloween JP?

What are you talking about? 

There's already a lot of achievements that can't be done by people with disabilities. Even some that can't be done by people without disabilities.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

It's disingenuous of me to use myself to express my opinion on the halloween JP?

You've already stated that you'll be able to complete it. You're not part of the ones that can't complete that specific achievement.

3 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm gonna do it, i'll eventually reach that first chest,

You were arguing that it is impossible for other people with disabilities to complete. So yes, it is weird to use them to push your argument. It was even weirder to call Anet disconnected from their community, suggesting that you speak for "the community" wants. You do not.

You speak for yourself.

Some may share your opinion, but please don't pretend that the community or all the people with disabilities share your sentiment.

Your sealioning is getting out of hand.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm also not having an opinion on the JP but on how Anet could have included as many people as they can but chose not to BY making the JP mandatory. After that, the JP opinion doesn't matter much.

Just like beating all the t1, t2 bosses in queen's gauntlet is necessary to reach liadry. After that, they don't matter much to get the mini in the end. They even added a t4 tier, after liadry. Not very inclusive if you go by completion rates.

 

I don't actually have an opinion on the JP itself. For all I care, it can be made easier, a version without timer, a version that teleports you to the end, removal of the achievement out of the chain to get the mini, an alternative way to get the mini. I'm fine with any change.

 

I just thought how ironic it is that you're actually only selectively for inclusivity, seemingly so for your own benefit, based on the first thing i've quoted in my earliest reply. And doing so in the guise of "the community".

I began with one of your quotes, and I'll end with one:

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

i'm not responding anymore 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[spjones.1528]

Good luck OP trying to get most of the ‘kind community’ on the forums to get behind this. You’ll get a few of us who’ll openly agree with you but a troll farm’s worth of the vocal minority who shout down your very valid point regarding making this JP  a must for the Court’s achievement and oh so cleverly will ‘misunderstand’ your points to muddy the waters.

 

I’m not a fan of JPs but have many times pointed out that i’m glad that they are in the game for those who enjoy them. By bull headedness or by hook or by crook I’ve got past all of them in the game except a couple of timed JP/adventure  like this that, naturally, have stuff locked behind them I need to complete various things. The legendary I’m currently stuck on is one that definitely sticks in the throat.

 

As others have said, the Tower isn’t required for the Meta (thankfully) and - as you pointed out - it’s inexplicable that after carefully not tying any requirements to it and knowing the bulk of the community has long been known to not favour JPs it’s beyond weird that they wouldn’t have put two things you could do to complete it in that stage just like they did for last stage of the gathering evidence section. Seems more like an oversight that they need to fix .

[Zentao.6314]

6 hours ago, spjones.1528 said:

Good luck OP trying to get most of the ‘kind community’ on the forums to get behind this. You’ll get a few of us who’ll openly agree with you but a troll farm’s worth of the vocal minority who shout down your very valid point regarding making this JP  a must for the Court’s achievement and oh so cleverly will ‘misunderstand’ your points to muddy the waters.

The community trying to make you understand that reworking all of the hard challanges to easy ones would ruin the whole game.
No hard challenges = no reason to play it anymore

The JP is not a requirement to anything, this just gives you a little mini that people wont even see on populated areas.
This whole discussion is pointless IMO, developers can't fix this without ruining the experience for the rest of the 99% people.

I'm starting to believe that you don't even sympathize people with a disability, because I'm pretty sure they have more serious problems than that they can't get a (useless) mini from this event...

[Sigmoid.7082]

Since when did disagreeing with someone instantly make you the vocal minority and a troll?