About the Halloween jumping puzzle requirement...

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, spjones.1528 said:

Well, just like the OP I’ve stated my issue and gone into detail in follow up posts. But, like normal, the usual types have chosen to misrepresent the position as asking for JPs to be changed or rewards for free. Neither was the case. As I made quite clear. Cheers for the amusement. The discussion went exactly as I suspected it would. Enjoy the chat amongst yourselves.

OP literally ""asks"" if it's time to put jp to rest, so I don't think I'm the one misinterpreting it here. If the solution to any -subjectively or not- harder content is to "just not include that content" (which is what OP asks for, as far as I can understand), then it's not a solution at all -especially in light of people voicing their concerns about trivializing the content and the way rewards are being obtained. So don't pretend people are ill-intended just because you disagree with them, when you're actively avoiding addressing those concerns.

Spare yourself that sarcastic "thanks for the amusement" commentary. It does nothing valuable for anyone here.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Bugabuga.9721]

I presume the reason for JP being mandatory for Court achievement (it's still optional for overall meta achievement) is that only a small subset of people actually bothered with it. Those who are good at doing JP were just farming it for rewards (which are reduced this year) and nobody else bothered. So they're trying to "fix" it by shoving it into other achievement. Kind of like Chalice of Tears that was made mandatory for trinket achievement

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Ask and ye shall receive!   Chest at bottom of jumping puzzle now; open in exchange of Candy Corn.  (See Patch Notes.)

[AgentMoore.9453]

50 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Ask and ye shall receive!   Chest at bottom of jumping puzzle now; open in exchange of Candy Corn.  (See Patch Notes.)

Nifty! Not something I would have expected from them, but that should solve the issue.

[Ultramex.1506]

While i have no problem with that, it's OP using "disability" as an excuse to can JP and then another come in here act condescending, calling anyone disagrree a troll and in the minortity

That what annoy me

[Shin Ryu.5802]

Having read both sides of this debate, I wonder if perhaps some sort of compromise could be reached on this the Mad King's Clock Tower.  The Wintersday Winter Wonderland jumping puzzle suggests one solution:  Have more than one path, each with its own difficulty level.  I used to hate jumping puzzles in general and Winter Wonderland in particular, but over the years, I went from dismissing it as altogether impossible to preferring the challenge of the harder courses as my skills improved.   The more challenging routes might also be a bit shorter than the "easy" path, but maybe they only seem that way because one doesn't have the luxury of stopping very long on the crumbling snowflakes.   At any rate, if Winter Wonderland only ever had its "hard" path, it's unlikely I'd have stuck with it long enough to eventually conquer it. 

So rather than an all-or-nothing challenge cliff ("hard" mode or nothing), perhaps it would be reasonable to have an entrance ramp in the form of easier but longer paths of different difficulty levels.  Perhaps the trade-off of allowing for easier routes could be slower progress toward the meta achievement and/or a lower loot haul per run.  Anyway, it should still incentivize people to at least try the harder modes as they improve (or if they already have the skill) while improving accessibility for people who still find the "easy" path more than enough challenge for now.

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Shin Ryu.5802 said:

Having read both sides of this debate, I wonder if perhaps some sort of compromise could be reached on this the Mad King's Clock Tower.  The Wintersday Winter Wonderland jumping puzzle suggests one solution:  Have more than one path, each with its own difficulty level.  I used to hate jumping puzzles in general and Winter Wonderland in particular, but over the years, I went from dismissing it as altogether impossible to preferring the challenge of the harder courses as my skills improved.   The more challenging routes might also be a bit shorter than the "easy" path, but maybe they only seem that way because one doesn't have the luxury of stopping very long on the crumbling snowflakes.   At any rate, if Winter Wonderland only ever had its "hard" path, it's unlikely I'd have stuck with it long enough to eventually conquer it. 

So rather than an all-or-nothing challenge cliff ("hard" mode or nothing), perhaps it would be reasonable to have an entrance ramp in the form of easier but longer paths of different difficulty levels.  Perhaps the trade-off of allowing for easier routes could be slower progress toward the meta achievement and/or a lower loot haul per run.  Anyway, it should still incentivize people to at least try the harder modes as they improve (or if they already have the skill) while improving accessibility for people who still find the "easy" path more than enough challenge for now.

 

Anything they do would likely require a rework of the entire instance.  If they were going to do that, then they should make it similar to Winter Wonderland where players can do it staggered.  Some of the visual effects, such as the green vortex and clock tower exploding, would probably have to go over to client side.  Then they can add a slow and normal path.  This could resolve both issues that players have expressed.

[Tyncale.1629]

 

I am glad that I can do the achievement now! 🙂 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[Astralporing.1957]

18 hours ago, Bugabuga.9721 said:

I presume the reason for JP being mandatory for Court achievement (it's still optional for overall meta achievement) is that only a small subset of people actually bothered with it.

That would be weird, considering how that exclusivity of this JP was a design intention. Clocktower designer was actually told to make it as hard as possible, and mentioned how he fully expects no more than maybe 5% of the players to be able to pass it.

It would mean Anet was not even aware how and why their own content was designed.

 

 

[Zentao.6314]

40 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That would be weird, considering how that exclusivity of this JP was a design intention. Clocktower designer was actually told to make it as hard as possible, and mentioned how he fully expects no more than maybe 5% of the players to be able to pass it.

It would mean Anet was not even aware how and why their own content was designed.

 

 

It's not that hard. You need to practice some and after that you will be able to do it.
I practiced for like one hour, raged like hell in the first 20 minutes, but after that I did it multiple times in a row very easily.
Pro tip: overlays can also help you when and where to jump (like TACO)

Edited October 8, 2021 by Zentao.6314

[Astralporing.1957]

11 minutes ago, Zentao.6314 said:

It's not that hard. You need to practice some and after that you will be able to do it.
I practiced for like one hour, raged like hell in the first 20 minutes, but after that I did it multiple times in a row very easily.
Pro tip: overlays can also help you when and where to jump (like TACO)

I'm not talking here about how it is actually hard. I am talking about design intentions.

Intending a content to be passable by only a small minority of players, and then being surprised that only a small minority of players are doing it would be weird, don't you think?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That would be weird, considering how that exclusivity of this JP was a design intention. Clocktower designer was actually told to make it as hard as possible, and mentioned how he fully expects no more than maybe 5% of the players to be able to pass it.

It would mean Anet was not even aware how and why their own content was designed.

 

 

This has nothing on Trib mode SAB or the Chalice of Tears, tbh.

[Ashantara.8731]

I wouldn't mind alternatives for the people who cannot do the JP. But I would like to have it kept as part of upcoming achievements, because it is so much fun (to me)!

P.S. The Clocktower window has been fixed, by the way. It no longer poses an obstacle. 🙂 Plus, two chests were added to the bottom area of the JP, as mentioned by others.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

This has nothing on Trib mode SAB or the Chalice of Tears, tbh.

Does it in any way counter what i said? Because i don't think so, especially since both Trib and Chalice had the very same design intentions.

Although you have a point that devs do seem to keep forgetting about this in Chalice's case. Which is partially offset by you being able to get help from other players there. Frankly, if Chalice worked the same way as Clockwork, with you having to do everything on your own without being able to get any help from other players (portals) or special items (positional rewinder), it being part of many metaachievements would be a far bigger issue.

Also, i disagree with you on difficulty level. For me, at least, Clockwork is more difficult than Chalice. And that's even without using all the abovementioned options for the latter.

[Shrimpkin.4851]

Thank you for adding a chest at the bottom of the clock tower so that I could complete the new achievements, I truly appreciate it.

 

Waits patiently for more Seasons of the Dragons content

[Lyssia.4637]

That was incredibly awesome of you, Anet, for adding that chest at the bottom.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  🍻 👍

Edited October 10, 2021 by Lyssia.4637
Thought I misspelled something.

[Rogue.8235]

I'm very grateful for the chest at the bottom, and I think the candy corn cost is a great compromise.  

 

To illuminate the subject that has been debated in this thread, I will never be able to get the Mad King's Clock Tower achievement.  I am perfectly okay with this.  I can get the meta achievement and the new courtly achievements have been updated to make it accessible.  

However, the Mad King's Clock Tower achievement does not have to be attainable to everyone.  Only those who can finish the clock tower.  I'm not one of those and, again, that's perfectly okay.

 

There are many other achievements I'll never be able to get in GW2 and that's okay with me.  That I can even play this game is enough for me.  I really don't care about achievements as they have no bearing on my gameplay.  Even then, ArenaNet is able to find solutions to make as much of the game accessible, as evidenced by the clock tower updates.

[Veprovina.4876]

So i was banned until today.

 

I just want to say, thank you Anet for making an alternative way of finishing the second meta achievement with the base chest.

I even like the way you did it, those who can finish the JP do it for free, and those that can't can take their candy corn and finish the achievement that way.

 

Thank you for listening!

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:26 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

 if Chalice worked the same way as Clockwork, with you having to do everything on your own without being able to get any help from other players (portals) or special items (positional rewinder), it being part of many metaachievements would be a far bigger issue.

No it wouldn't as achievements are optional content.

 

Quote

Also, i disagree with you on difficulty level. For me, at least, Clockwork is more difficult than Chalice. And that's even without using all the abovementioned options for the latter.

Clocktower has a clear, concise path to it that is really obvious if one were to pay any sort of attention with the only exception being one spot where you have to drop down and one spot where you have to wait.  Both can be overcome within t he game by observing what the other players (The blue orbs) do.  Other players are just glowing orbs making it really easy to see around them. Chalice of Tears without a guide and going in blind has dozens more of these spots where what you do is unclear and a spot where you can't die, but can get stuck without a way out forcing you to waypoint or wait for someone with a portal to get to you and port you out.  Chalice is substantially longer even with people helping you out, oh and that max size norn beside you in Chalice is completely visible and going to be obstructing your view.

[mythical.6315]

28 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

No it wouldn't as achievements are optional content.

 Insert the “well the game is optional” responses

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

 Insert the “well the game is optional” responses

You can still participate in halloween without having to do all the achievements.

You can participate in the Living World without having to do all t he achievements.

You can do T1 fractals without having to do all the achievements and grind to T4

You can kill raid bosses without having to do the CMs and get all the fancy titles.

You can do dungeons without having to unlock every dungeon skin.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Clocktower has a clear, concise path to it that is really obvious if one were to pay any sort of attention with the only exception being one spot where you have to drop down and one spot where you have to wait.  Both can be overcome within t he game by observing what the other players (The blue orbs) do.  Other players are just glowing orbs making it really easy to see around them. Chalice of Tears without a guide and going in blind has dozens more of these spots where what you do is unclear and a spot where you can't die, but can get stuck without a way out forcing you to waypoint or wait for someone with a portal to get to you and port you out.  Chalice is substantially longer even with people helping you out, oh and that max size norn beside you in Chalice is completely visible and going to be obstructing your view.

And? None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with why Clockwork is hard to me.

Hint: it's the time pressure that is a problem here for me. Notice, how this is a factor that is completely missing from Chalice.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And? None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with why Clockwork is hard to me.

Hint: it's the time pressure that is a problem here for me. Notice, how this is a factor that is completely missing from Chalice.

So it's literally just a personal problem.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

So it's literally just a personal problem.

All the difficulty-related issues are personal, unless something is so difficult literally noone can do it.

Or, to put it in a wider context - any issue that is not caused by a flat out bug is personal.

It's the same kind of non-argument as "it's optional" one.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

All the difficulty-related issues are personal, unless something is so difficult literally noone can do it.

Or, to put it in a wider context - any issue that is not caused by a flat out bug is personal.

It's the same kind of non-argument as "it's optional" one.

Well no.

Say the PC can, at most, make a long jump of 5 meters.   If there's a jump that's 4.999 meters away with a landing zone that's 1 meter across that's more difficult to make than a jump that's 2 meters away with a landing zone that's 2 meters.  If that same 2 meter jump had a 4 second timer attached to it to make it across, it's s till technically easier to make because you can go fast and still make it.

In non  JP related terms, if an attack has a 5 second wind up time, doesn't track the player perfectly, and one shots the player, it's  going to be easier to avoid than an attack that has a 1 second wind up time, tracks the player perfectly, and one shots the player if they're in range.

Objectively, outside of the instance bugging, there aren't any jumps as obnoxious as the Chalice of Tears (Low visible distinctions, super tight requirements for the jumps and  glides, no long distance jumps that require gliding) and there's no softlock area.  Literally the only thing "difficult" about the clocktower is that you have to do it at a semi-reasonable pace and there are multiple spots where you can pause.  You even pause after the first couple of jumps to wait. The only real issue with the JP is the drop down partway through it as nothing teaches the player to pay attention towards what's below them more or less due to the green smog that's (Rightfully so, mind you) assumed to be below them at all times.




Also this

Quote

It's the same kind of non-argument as "it's optional" one.

Attention towards this (Added a few things for clarification, since you're confused on it):

You can still participate in halloween without having to do all the achievements.  The maze is there for people who e njoy zerg farming,, there's something for pvp players with lunatic's inquisition, something for people who enjoy mount races with the raceway, and even an instance f or solo/party group players with ascent to madness.  The achievements are just extra.

Wintersday is the same; you can have fun there with the minigames without having to do the achievements.

You can participate in the Living World without having to do all the achievements.  A lot of people already only play for the story.

You can do T1 fractals without having to do all the achievements and grind to T4. Technically, you can experience the story of every fractal before you even enter T2.

You can kill raid bosses without having to do the CMs and get all the fancy titles.

You can do dungeons and experience the story of every path without having to unlock every dungeon skin.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406