EoD looks so bad it's not even funny

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, rylien.3824 said:

(The strong points that this extension could have brought us vis-à-vis the previous ones were clearly: one or two new races (Tengus/Largos),

What does it have to do with any of the previous expansions' features? How is this improving gameplay? It just isn't. It's baffling how someone can repeatedly rant about "lack of qualitative content" and then pretend that "adding a playable race" is meaningful in any way. It's riiight there next to the "fishing bad and meaningless, housing good and meaningful!" posts. 🙄 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Monarc.9726]

To be fair, new races with new starting zones and stories would be a substantial amount of new content that most players would have probably enjoyed at some point. I’m not saying I wanted or expected that (I didn’t, I have enough alts already), but that would certainly be a lot of new content compared to fishing, skiffs and a new mount. 

Although expecting two new races would have been silly. One new race might be doable, but with all the extra work of making armor fit a new body style, it’s just never going to happen.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Monarc.9726

[Sobx.1758]

52 minutes ago, Monarc.9726 said:

To be fair, new races with new starting zones and stories would be a substantial amount of new content that most players would have probably enjoyed at some point. I’m not saying I wanted or expected that (I didn’t, I have enough alts already), but that would certainly be a lot of new content compared to fishing, skiffs and a new mount. 

Although expecting two new races would have been silly. One new race might be doable, but with all the extra work of making armor fit a new body style, it’s just never going to happen.

From my understanding (and absolutely correct me if I'm missing something important here) this is what you just wrote: "ok, new playable race by itself isn't meaningful content, but the zones/stories we'd potentially get with them would be!". So... what expansion (this and any other) does is takes out that meaningless "additional playable race" and still adds the meaningful  "new zones and stories" to the game. Right? Isn't this what we're getting in every expansion?

[Monarc.9726]

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

From my understanding (and absolutely correct me if I'm missing something important here) this is what you just wrote: "ok, new playable race by itself isn't meaningful content, but the zones/stories we'd potentially get with them would be!". So... what expansion (this and any other) does is takes out that meaningless "additional playable race" and still adds the meaningful  "new zones and stories" to the game. Right? Isn't this what we're getting in every expansion?

I think the difference is new race/starter zone content would attract new and returning players, since they aren’t going to have access to the new lvl 80 maps and content, but might take advantage of a fresh start with lots of current players starting new alts. I’ve seen this exact thing happen with other MMO expansions. Also, just the novelty that a new race brings, something fresh. But otherwise, yes, I agree it would have been a waste of resources and not what the current player base really wanted, overall.

Also, I think those that wanted a new race expected that it would be in addition to new lvl 80 maps and content, not just one or the other. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Monarc.9726

[The Boz.2038]

To be fair, there is something to be said about an actually modern Guild Wars 2 new player experience. Because starting in the starting zones from 2012 today? Not a good experience.

[witcher.3197]

48 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

To be fair, there is something to be said about an actually modern Guild Wars 2 new player experience. Because starting in the starting zones from 2012 today? Not a good experience.

Every new player experience update they did made the game worse so I'd think twice about that.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Isn't that what the tutorial area in End of Dragons is?  Something for new players? 

[Tukaram.8256]

21 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Isn't that what the tutorial area in End of Dragons is?  Something for new players? 

There is a tutorial area?  I have not heard of that yet. 

[Fueki.4753]

3 minutes ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

There is a tutorial area?  I have not heard of that yet. 

There is one heart (as far as we could glimpse from the map preview) that teaches a few basic game mechanics. I remember them saying that this is intended for returning players, not new players though.

[The Boz.2038]

In GW1, going from level 1 to 20 "the normal way" took something like ten hours, outside of concentrated speedruns. More like fifteen for a new account doing story and meandering around.

And then-times ANet then wisely picked up on the fact that that is *a bad approach* to take with standalone expansions that evolve and improve the gameplay. So Factions and Nightfall both shipped with their own "pre-searing" tutorial leveling areas that had you go 1-20 in three hours flat, at the most.

ANet really needs to revisit this old wisdom, and reintroduce it here, with EoD. One map. Long, linear, highly scaled areas. A +5000% XP bonus to characters that are level 79 and under.

Have new and returning people *turbo-started* into the game, able to experience and enjoy the actual content that this company made through effort and evolution over the past five years, without the game being weighted down by the tutorial story experience that is a decade old at this point.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I think it will be helpful for those new players, and there's always some, that use their free L80 Boost and enter End of Dragons.  There's a Gliding-Jumping Puzzle tutorial, a break-bar tutorial, a group-combat tutorial, a combo-field tutorial, a mini-game, a dodging/blocking tutorial and a few other game-mechanics tutorials. 

[JustTrogdor.7892]

18 hours ago, vicky.9751 said:

 I'm gonna buy the expansion anyways because there's almost nothing else out to play at the moment. Some content is better than no content..

Anet should use this quote in their next marketing campaign.    😄

[witcher.3197]

4 hours ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

There is a tutorial area?  I have not heard of that yet. 

They did mention Shing Jea being more of a tutorial area than a meta focused one and they showed off some combat tutorials along with a gliding practice thing.

Not really something that should be in a lvl 80 area but better late then never.

[AgentMoore.9453]

9 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

Not really something that should be in a lvl 80 area but better late then never.

I actually don't mind that they included it in a level 80 area, but it's definitely weird that it's only included there. Letting returning players brush up on their skills is fine, but something like this could stand to be added to all expansions and to the core game as well, since people can start in any of those places when they buy GuildWars2. So, a good step, just in a weird spot as you said.

[witcher.3197]

3 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I actually don't mind that they included it in a level 80 area, but it's definitely weird that it's only included there. Letting returning players brush up on their skills is fine, but something like this could stand to be added to all expansions and to the core game as well, since people can start in any of those places when they buy GuildWars2. So, a good step, just in a weird spot as you said.

Exactly my concern as well. Right now it's fine, but when Anet releases the next expansion the new people won't start with EoD so they'll skip the tutorial. I'd rather not have the first map of every expansion be a tutorial to fix that. Case in point the tutorial area shouldn't be at max level in an expansion.

Edited January 28, 2022 by witcher.3197

[rylien.3824]

21 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What does it have to do with any of the previous expansions' features? How is this improving gameplay? It just isn't. It's baffling how someone can repeatedly rant about "lack of qualitative content" and then pretend that "adding a playable race" is meaningful in any way. It's riiight there next to the "fishing bad and meaningless, housing good and meaningful!" posts. 🙄 

 

The usefulness of a new race to quote only "this problem" of which you point the finger, it was to propose something new, and of attractive. Guild Wars 2 is a story-driven MMO mostly, so yes: "content" such as a new playable race, to expand its LORE is a very interesting thing. On the other hand, beyond that, they didn't even have access to the capital of the Tengus... maybe as a future map of the HV6 who knows, just to say "it's done, it's unlocked... ". I hope that we will have the rooms of Tetyos at the Largos one day, because it will literally work for me to sweat not having it.
 

Artists had imagined what it could have given, I find it rather attractive. Too bad that the stake on "S" is so minimized to such an extent that the Largos will have been erased from the diagram (+ the aquatic content).
 

https://guildwars2.waveofshadow.com/

Largos City

Underwater map

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by rylien.3824

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, rylien.3824 said:

 

The usefulness of a new race to quote only "this problem" of which you point the finger, it was to propose something new, and of attractive. Guild Wars 2 is a story-driven MMO mostly, so yes: "content" such as a new playable race, to expand its LORE is a very interesting thing. On the other hand, beyond that, they didn't even have access to the capital of the Tengus... maybe as a future map of the HV6 who knows, just to say "it's done, it's unlocked... ". I hope that we will have the rooms of Tetyos at the Largos one day, because it will literally work for me to sweat not having it.
 

Artists had imagined what it could have given, I find it rather attractive. Too bad that the stake on "S" is so minimized to such an extent that the Largos will have been erased from the diagram (+ the aquatic content).
 

https://guildwars2.waveofshadow.com/

Largos City

Underwater map

 

It might be attractive gameplay for you. Just like fishing is to others. Who knows. Maybe they manage to make fishing as good and unique as mounts are. Pretty sure before pof came some ppl were complaining about mounts too. making them seem “boring”

[rylien.3824]

1 hour ago, Freya.9075 said:

It might be attractive gameplay for you. Just like fishing is to others. Who knows. Maybe they manage to make fishing as good and unique as mounts are. Pretty sure before pof came some ppl were complaining about mounts too. making them seem “boring”

 

Fishing is a completely anecdotal and insignificant profession.
First, because its only use will be successes (not recommended), and cooking. (Useless and forgettable profession of the game).
Second, because it's nowhere near as interesting and appealing as what Genshin Impact will have offered, here we're just going to spam the same key in what few water areas there are in game. (The Skiff is admittedly "nice" but it's still just an improved voldécum, and criticizable especially because there is precisely no real aquatic content, for the few aquatic areas that there are in play...).

So I'm sorry, fishing is a big no. 🤢

 

For me, renewal would have been:
- redesign of aquatic battle.
- aquatic maps and/or maps with deep/worked aquatic areas. (Kind of ruins to be explored under water, deep areas, fights... aquatic World-Boss, etc...).

- Of the naval battle? for PvP/WvM. (personalize your boat etc...).

Then there is also the Housing which was in great demand... it could have been really nice to make one of them...

So personally their fishing as it is, on its own, they can keep it haha. (I would probably never touch it, 1-2 times if I feel obliged to make a success, or for something ultra specific, but clearly it will be forgotten on my side).

Edited January 28, 2022 by rylien.3824

[Mini Crinny.6190]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:25 PM, vicky.9751 said:

Also FFXIV's endwalker was so bad story wise that i actually got depressed and uninstalled it. They had a great story rolling for 2 years and then dropped the ball so hard with this one. Theres a huge thread on their forums about it.

thats the problem really, its on the forums.. this is where people who aren't happy complain about the game, its the same with gw2 forums, it doesn't speak the thoughts of every single person playing that game however

[AgentMoore.9453]

1 minute ago, rylien.3824 said:

Fishing is (a) completely anecdotal

Same could be said for a new race, honestly. You'd be able to use both fishing and a new race across the entire game, some portions of the playerbase might care more about the feature than others (anecdotal), and both could (and would) be monetized. Neither have an appeal that's as widespread as things like gliding and mounts, as those are mobility-based and I'd assume moving around is more important to most people than something like character species or a fishing minigame.

I don't say this to knock the addition of a new race (or fishing) - that'd be neat and it could excite a good portion of the players - I just think it's roughly on the same level as something like fishing in terms of widespread appeal. Good features to bring with an expansion, just not the main event, as it were.

[Tukaram.8256]

13 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There is one heart (as far as we could glimpse from the map preview) that teaches a few basic game mechanics. I remember them saying that this is intended for returning players, not new players though.

I am glad to hear there will be hearts.  I really do not like the areas with no hearts to complete.  They are some of the best parts of map completion. 😎

[Linken.6345]

16 minutes ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

I am glad to hear there will be hearts.  I really do not like the areas with no hearts to complete.  They are some of the best parts of map completion. 😎

Lets hope it is just the one heart.

[Fueki.4753]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Lets hope it is just the one heart.

Let's hope it's over 30 hearts per new map instead.

[Tukaram.8256]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Let's hope it's over 30 hearts per new map instead.

You got my vote! 😎

[Bakeneko.5826]

On 1/28/2022 at 2:14 AM, Monarc.9726 said:

I think the difference is new race/starter zone content would attract new and returning players, since they aren’t going to have access to the new lvl 80 maps and content, but might take advantage of a fresh start with lots of current players starting new alts. I’ve seen this exact thing happen with other MMO expansions. Also, just the novelty that a new race brings, something fresh. But otherwise, yes, I agree it would have been a waste of resources and not what the current player base really wanted, overall.

Also, I think those that wanted a new race expected that it would be in addition to new lvl 80 maps and content, not just one or the other. 

I fail to see how it would attract old players. It's same classes under different skin. New low level maps would be non factor for pretty much everyone, save those who dont have enough tomes of knowledge. You seen it in WoW, maybe Lineage 2, but they brought NEW CLASSES with race. New race is waste of time and resources while giving nothing more than some reskins to what we currently have, while increasing workload for rest of gave dev cycle.

 

23 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

ANet really needs to revisit this old wisdom, and reintroduce it here, with EoD. One map. Long, linear, highly scaled areas. A +5000% XP bonus to characters that are level 79 and under.

Have new and returning people *turbo-started* into the game, able to experience and enjoy the actual content that this company made through effort and evolution over the past five years, without the game being weighted down by the tutorial story experience that is a decade old at this point.

Players cannot find dodge button while progressing to fractal T4, doubt this would do much help. Hearts in starting zones should include dodge, CC, active dmg avoidance systems.

 

15 hours ago, rylien.3824 said:

it was to propose something new,

Feature for the sake of feature, not a great design, tbh.

 

12 hours ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

thats the problem really, its on the forums.. this is where people who aren't happy complain about the game, its the same with gw2 forums, it doesn't speak the thoughts of every single person playing that game however

That's what forum is for....