Reveal in WvW Needs Some Tweaking

[SLOTH.5231]

Please look into this and give this some kind of cooldown to the person it's being used on. When revealed give at least 20s in between before you can be revealed again by anyone because as it stands right now in WvW playing Thief you're basically perma revealed the entire time you try to stealth if you are near anyone. All I'm asking is for the team to look in to it and maybe tweak it a bit is all. I'm not asking for it to be removed! Thank you!

[Xenesis.6389]

32 minutes ago, SLOTH.5231 said:

Please look into this and give this some kind of cooldown to the person it's being used on. When revealed give at least 20s in between before you can be revealed again by anyone because as it stands right now in WvW playing Thief you're basically perma revealed the entire time you try to stealth if you are near anyone. All I'm asking is for the team to look in to it and maybe tweak it a bit is all. I'm not asking for it to be removed! Thank you!

 

Please look into this and give this some kind of cooldown to the person it's being used on. When immobilized/dazed/stunned/knockdown/knockback/float/pull/launch give at least 20s in between before you can be immobilized/dazed/stunned/knockdown/knockback/float/pull/launch again by anyone because as it stands right now in WvW you're basically perma immobilized/dazed/stunned/knockdown/knockback/float/pull/launch the entire time you try to move if you are near anyone. All I'm asking is for the team to look in to it and maybe tweak it a bit is all. I'm not asking for it to be removed! Thank you!

 

In other words, if you think that should give you 20s immunity then every other annoying aspect of combat should also have a 20s immunity, like immobilize and other cc's. Btw almost all the reveal skills are 20+sec cooldowns, with warrior/spellbreaker being the only class able to spam it due to multiple skills/traits for it, also deadeyes already have a free getoutofreveled card to use. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

[Shroud.2307]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Please look into this and give this some kind of cooldown to the person it's being used on. When immobilized/dazed/stunned/knockdown/knockback/float/pull/launch give at least 20s in between before you can be immobilized/dazed/stunned/knockdown/knockback/float/pull/launch again by anyone because as it stands right now in WvW you're basically perma immobilized/dazed/stunned/knockdown/knockback/float/pull/launch the entire time you try to move if you are near anyone. All I'm asking is for the team to look in to it and maybe tweak it a bit is all. I'm not asking for it to be removed! Thank you!

 

In other words, if you think that should give you 20s immunity then every other annoying aspect of combat should also have a 20s immunity, like immobilize and other cc's. Btw almost all the reveal skills are 20+sec cooldowns, with warrior/spellbreaker being the only class able to spam it due to multiple skills/traits for it, also deadeyes already have a free getoutofreveled card to use. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

I imagine this is yet another player that's fighting in the vicinity of Watch Tower and thinking they "can't use Stealth anywhere".

Being Marked means you're visible on the map. Doesn't matter if you're Stealthed or if you even have access to it, that's dangerous for you because it means players are going to be coming for you.
If it didn't Reveal, Thieves wouldn't care because they can be gone at a moments notice anyway. The Reveal just means they have to be cautious like everyone else.

And for the record, I don't think it's the best design to limit a classes mechanics and not others, but it's also not like you can't use Stealth when Marked, you just can't camp it.
As for Target Painters well... Deadeye exists and 95% of them make it their personal mission to abuse Stealth as much as the game will let them so, unfortunately that means Thief as a whole has to pay for this idiocy.

[Xenesis.6389]

Well they're asking for a nerf on reveal, not marked, unless they don't know the difference.

 

Don't fight around towers that have watchtower, pretty simple.

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Well they're asking for a nerf on reveal, not marked, unless they don't know the difference.

As recent threads have shown, thieves dont know how stealth works.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the tweaking reveal skills do need is actually: shorter CD and wide range buff

 

like unless  u fight in some recently flipped objective and get 2min marked or run into a trap there is like not much that will just reveal u... thieves are still often in a nearly permastealthing state. at least those with a basic game understanding

[frareanselm.1925]

Reveal in wvw for thieves is absurd and has zero logics. Thief can stealth in the 2v2 arenas that are tiny.... and in a huge map they cant...

[SLOTH.5231]

I see the ones trying to educate me on how revealed and marked works don't play thief in WvW.  It's okay, I don't hold it against you to not understand the frustration but just remember this, when thieves are stealth we are not doing damage to you we stealth to prevent you from doing damage to us but with all the button mashing  AOE from other classes it's unfair to be reveal also hit us with AOE button mashing while stealth and we have some of the lowest HP. Thanks for your valuable input. 

[Xenesis.6389]

30 minutes ago, SLOTH.5231 said:

I see the ones trying to educate me on how revealed and marked works don't play thief in WvW.

 

Oh? and how do you know I don't play thief in wvw?

 

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Oh yeah, let's nerf the only counters to the best defensive option in gaming, as a thief i can be perma stealthed, literally control the flow of the battle, but that's not enough, i want my only counters in WvW to be nerfed.

This is just like Rangers asking for any and all sorts of projectile reflection/destruction to be removed from the game because "reee i can't press 2 and deal 20k damage in Soliders gear with all these reflections, reeeee".

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

As recent threads have shown, thieves dont know how stealth works.

When you're given a get-out-of-jail-free card that you can use almost whenever you want with practically zero restrictions, you don't bother asking how it works.  You just use it because that's the thing to do.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I agree. Revealed needs tweaking. It should also increase damage on the target by 100000%. /s

[ASP.8093]

10 hours ago, SLOTH.5231 said:

I see the ones trying to educate me on how revealed and marked works don't play thief in WvW.  It's okay, I don't hold it against you to not understand the frustration but just remember this, when thieves are stealth we are not doing damage to you we stealth to prevent you from doing damage to us but with all the button mashing  AOE from other classes it's unfair to be reveal also hit us with AOE button mashing while stealth and we have some of the lowest HP. Thanks for your valuable input. 

I main thief.

You have a ton of tools to manage the engagement beyond stealth. Reveal can put you on the back foot but learning to play around it is part of actually being good at thief. Most class' Reveal-applying skills are too weak to use in a serious build. To deal with Stealth restriction, you basically only need to learn how to play against Spellbreaker, Dragonhunter, Sic 'Em Soulbeast, and other Thieves who open on you with Target Painter. (Anyone else dropping a Target Painter on you isn't a total game-changer, it just means you need a better escape plan for when their buddies show up.)

If you absolutely hate getting Sic-'Emed that much, pick up Deadeye.

TLDR: Suck it up, you'll be fine.

Edited October 9, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Telgum.6071]

I think this idea would be cool for CC skills, not revealing. It doesn't feel right that you can be CC'ed over and over and over with no chances of movement, or being permarooted, or being stunned + knocked down + dazed over and over by a warrior, or being feared for years by a necromancer. Adding like 1s CD resistance to any CC form would be the way on my honest opinion.

As for being revealed, I don't think is bad. Of course if you play full stealth is going to hurt but that's your fault. Use other resources, you have them. There is life outside stealth.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

12 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I think this idea would be cool for CC skills, not revealing. It doesn't feel right that you can be CC'ed over and over and over with no chances of movement, or being permarooted, or being stunned + knocked down + dazed over and over by a warrior, or being feared for years by a necromancer. Adding like 1s CD resistance to any CC form would be the way on my honest opinion.

As for being revealed, I don't think is bad. Of course if you play full stealth is going to hurt but that's your fault. Use other resources, you have them. There is life outside stealth.

Actually, we already have a way to counter CC in the form of stun breaks, but the way they work now, in WvW you use a stun break and get stunned imediatelly after, so this idea of giving immunity to CC should be aplied to after you use a stunbreak, making you immune just by being CC would be to broken.
Or Anet could make it so all stunbreaks give 1 stack of stability after used (there's some that already do this), this way people have a bit more time to react and escape.

There's also diminishing returns for receiving too much CC, to the point were most would last only 0.1 secs, but i don't know if ithis is already in the game, and in WvW, one CC is enough to get most people killed so maybe it wouldn't make much of a diference.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

CCs have already been overnerfed. Leave them be.

[Xenesis.6389]

2 hours ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

Actually, we already have a way to counter CC in the form of stun breaks, but the way they work now, in WvW you use a stun break and get stunned imediatelly after, so this idea of giving immunity to CC should be aplied to after you use a stunbreak, making you immune just by being CC would be to broken.
Or Anet could make it so all stunbreaks give 1 stack of stability after used (there's some that already do this), this way people have a bit more time to react and escape.

There's also diminishing returns for receiving too much CC, to the point were most would last only 0.1 secs, but i don't know if ithis is already in the game, and in WvW, one CC is enough to get most people killed so maybe it wouldn't make much of a diference.

 

Instead of using a diminishing returns system(there isn't one for combat in this game, only for loot which lmao tells you what's important to them), they decided stability would be their grab all cc immunity, only they didn't bother to give equal access to it to all the classes like they did for stun breakers, there's a reason guards are the most wanted class for nine years. 

 

Same with condition system you mostly get personal access to cleanses that take off 1-2 maybe 3 at a time, but then the game has 12 conditions that could be spammed on you and can only get rid of them in a certain order (sometimes making immobilize a pain in beep). Instead they put in resistance and resolution as the grab all solution, but as with stability didn't bother giving equal access to those boons to all classes.

 

They should give more personal access and control over stability and cleanses, instead of just leaving it up to group versions to a couple specs. But people love boon blobbing, so it's whatever.

[Burial.1958]

The only thing what should be tweaked is this condi fiesta garbage.

[Dawdler.8521]

42 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

The only thing what should be tweaked is this condi fiesta garbage.

Alright but to make it fair can we make people do less power damage the more people around them there are? I mean so we balance out their exponentially increasing effectivness at 2+ people, compared to condi damage that see exponentially decreased effectivness at 2+.

Like if you are 50 people, you do 50 damage on a skill that normally does 2500 for a single player. Since you are 50 people, you have the potential to stack 2500 anyway so it should be fine.

I think that sounds good. 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:13 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

As recent threads have shown, thieves dont know how stealth works.

Most players don't know how the game works in general, to be fair. 

[Burial.1958]

24 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Alright but to make it fair can we make people do less power damage the more people around them there are? I mean so we balance out their exponentially increasing effectivness at 2+ people, compared to condi damage that see exponentially decreased effectivness at 2+.

Like if you are 50 people, you do 50 damage on a skill that normally does 2500 for a single player. Since you are 50 people, you have the potential to stack 2500 anyway so it should be fine.

I think that sounds good. 

 

Condi is utterly broken in that game. Me and my Guild runned yesterday full condi and we kittened enemys up like nothing. Condi should be damage over time but here u can even burst like a Power Build.  I only play Smallscale so i do not care about zerging because it is boring as hell. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Grebcol.5984

[Dawdler.8521]

3 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

 

Condi is utterly broken in that game. Me and my Guild runned yesterday full condi and we kittened enemys up like nothing. Condi should be damage over time but here u can even burst like a Power Build.

Wow, pro.

[ASP.8093]

3 hours ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

Condi is utterly broken in that game. Me and my Guild runned yesterday full condi and we kittened enemys up like nothing. Condi should be damage over time but here u can even burst like a Power Build.  I only play Smallscale so i do not care about zerging because it is boring as hell. 

Did you bring pocket healers, too?

[dani.5680]

On 10/9/2021 at 3:37 AM, SLOTH.5231 said:

Please look into this and give this some kind of cooldown to the person it's being used on. When revealed give at least 20s in between before you can be revealed again by anyone because as it stands right now in WvW playing Thief you're basically perma revealed the entire time you try to stealth if you are near anyone. All I'm asking is for the team to look in to it and maybe tweak it a bit is all. I'm not asking for it to be removed! Thank you!

 

If they tweak reveal do you agree to half the thief mobility?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Alright but to make it fair can we make people do less power damage the more people around them there are? I mean so we balance out their exponentially increasing effectivness at 2+ people, compared to condi damage that see exponentially decreased effectivness at 2+.

Like if you are 50 people, you do 50 damage on a skill that normally does 2500 for a single player. Since you are 50 people, you have the potential to stack 2500 anyway so it should be fine.

I think that sounds good. 

How about they bring back an old piece of code from GW1 where you can only be hit by some number of damage packets at a time, including individual condi stack ticks 😉