Reveal in WvW Needs Some Tweaking

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

16 hours ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

 

Condi is utterly broken in that game. Me and my Guild runned yesterday full condi and we kittened enemys up like nothing. Condi should be damage over time but here u can even burst like a Power Build.  I only play Smallscale so i do not care about zerging because it is boring as hell. 

Condi is totally useless against zergs, with all the perma cleanses and resolution.

But to be honest, zergs are completely immune to every game mechanic, if they are not fighting against another organized zerg of course, power damage get's destroyed by all the barrier, heals and perma protection, CC is useless against all the stab Revs and Guards provide, even boon corrupt is useless against all the boon spam.

[subversiontwo.7501]

19 minutes ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

Condi is totally useless against zergs, with all the perma cleanses and resolution.

But to be honest, zergs are completely immune to every game mechanic, if they are not fighting against another organized zerg of course, power damage get's destroyed by all the barrier, heals and perma protection, CC is useless against all the stab Revs and Guards provide, even boon corrupt is useless against all the boon spam.

:philosoraptor:

If everything is useless against everything, does that mean things are balanced? 🧐

Edited October 11, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

41 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

:philosoraptor:

If everything is useless against everything, does that mean things are balanced? 🧐

Schrodinger's balance.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

:philosoraptor:

If everything is useless against everything, does that mean things are balanced? 🧐

Yesn't.

[Jski.6180]

They need to give reveal to ele in wvw and over all give every class a means of reveal.

[ASP.8093]

43 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

They need to give reveal to ele in wvw and over all give every class a means of reveal.

Imagine every elementalist lining up to read an announcement that says "We decided to buff ele for WvW."

"Oooh, what'd we get, what'd we get!? More hit points? +10% increase to damage coefficients? Lightning Flash is a stun break now? Tempest can do group Stability?"

And Anet's like "your worst skill now also does a Reveal" and everyone starts crying.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Imagine every elementalist lining up to read an announcement that says "We decided to buff ele for WvW."

"Oooh, what'd we get, what'd we get!? More hit points? +10% increase to damage coefficients? Lightning Flash is a stun break now? Tempest can do group Stability?"

And Anet's like "your worst skill now also does a Reveal" and everyone starts crying.

Aquatic Stance sounds like good candidate for that.

[Jski.6180]

11 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Imagine every elementalist lining up to read an announcement that says "We decided to buff ele for WvW."

"Oooh, what'd we get, what'd we get!? More hit points? +10% increase to damage coefficients? Lightning Flash is a stun break now? Tempest can do group Stability?"

And Anet's like "your worst skill now also does a Reveal" and everyone starts crying.

I just think Lighting rod should be a reveal its a hit of lighting that every one can see why cant you tell what it hit or at least give an indicator of something being there.

Also the joke is they updated dagger earth 3 root skill from the "tether like effect" because anet made a point to make tether skills to reveal but they "forgot" about dagger earth 3 and when ppl pointed it out they changed it into what we have now lol.

But your right ele needs soo much more and the player base knows it i even think anet knows it but a utility effects like this is very odd its missing from the ele kit when Elementalist is using the very elemental base of all magic so it should be able to interfere with other magic users as well as use all magics in the game on some level. Light is fire / lighting with a bit of ice and or water to refract it. Over all anet forgot what the word elemental even means at this point lol. Just a case of artiest forgetting how to art when its not there art.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Dawdler.8521]

46 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I just think Lighting rod should be a reveal its a hit of lighting that every one can see why cant you tell what it hit or at least give an indicator of something being there.

Then why isnt burning a reveal, its should be hard to hide the fact you're on fire.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Then why isnt burning a reveal, its should be hard to hide the fact you're on fire.

It should be hard to hide the fact that I just hit something with my greatsword as well.

[kash.9213]

18 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I just think Lighting rod should be a reveal its a hit of lighting that every one can see why cant you tell what it hit or at least give an indicator of something being there.

Also the joke is they updated dagger earth 3 root skill from the "tether like effect" because anet made a point to make tether skills to reveal but they "forgot" about dagger earth 3 and when ppl pointed it out they changed it into what we have now lol.

But your right ele needs soo much more and the player base knows it i even think anet knows it but a utility effects like this is very odd its missing from the ele kit when Elementalist is using the very elemental base of all magic so it should be able to interfere with other magic users as well as use all magics in the game on some level. Light is fire / lighting with a bit of ice and or water to refract it. Over all anet forgot what the word elemental even means at this point lol. Just a case of artiest forgetting how to art when its not there art.

You'll know if something is there, you can probably pick up on them even without cleaving or causing any ticks. I wouldn't mind if you got a reveal if that skill gets some damage or control if it has it taken out. 

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

You'll know if something is there, you can probably pick up on them even without cleaving or causing any ticks. I wouldn't mind if you got a reveal if that skill gets some damage or control if it has it taken out. 

Only if your not in combat or if your skill has an added effect of on hit and or an effect you see when you trigger say a line. The only effect that i know on ele is the Unsteady Ground from staff 4 maybe adding more seen effect when ppl pass though lines?

[Cynz.9437]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:13 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

As recent threads have shown, non-thieves dont know how stealth/thieves work.

 

Fix'd.

[Cynz.9437]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:03 AM, dani.5680 said:

 

If they tweak reveal do you agree to half the thief mobility?

 

If thieves get better survival tools, sure. But they won't. And you know it. It is always the same, people complain about stealth/mobility on thieves but don't bother to find out why thieves have to play like this (namely having no alternative because THIS VERY community hated it when thieves could actually fight w/o relying on stealth and cried for nerfs 24/7).

[Littlekenny.4196]

57 minutes ago, Cynz.9437 said:

 

If thieves get better survival tools, sure. But they won't. And you know it. It is always the same, people complain about stealth/mobility on thieves but don't bother to find out why thieves have to play like this (namely having no alternative because THIS VERY community hated it when thieves could actually fight w/o relying on stealth and cried for nerfs 24/7).

My thief build is designed 100% to run in a zerg and use the support other people provide with no consideration for roaming and no stealth.

 

I win or escape around 75% of roaming fights on it while alone.

 

If I added survivability skills like daggerstorm or shadowstep I would win less but survive around 90% of encounters.

 

If I changed from crit strikes to acrobatics I would win less and survive closer to 95%, then if I added energy sigils that would be even higher survival rate.

 

I could also switch to so more defensive gear like marauder too.

 

Thieves have plenty survival tools, unless you expect to go in 1 Vs 10 and survive like a thief using stealth can.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

If they actually want to balance thief stealth, it's very simple. All they need to do is remove the leap finisher from heartseeker and make black powder (pistol 5) apply 3s of stealth when cast while keeping the same ini cost. Those two changes would keep group stealth through blasting smoke fields, would keep D/P having access to stealth for backstabs and misdirection, and they would allow stealth and our fighting capability without stealth to be balanced better by removing the ability to permastealth from rifle D/P deadeye with SA and D/P bound daredevil without SA. As long as that leap combo exists there's no point talking about how hard stealth is countered or about how the damage has been nerfed etc etc because those counters and this damage level are still necessary to stop D/P daredevil from being OP. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[Dawdler.8521]

25 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

If they actually want to balance thief stealth, it's very simple. All they need to do is remove the leap finisher from heartseeker and make black powder (pistol 5) apply 3s of stealth when cast while keeping the same ini cost. 

I felt a great disturbance on the forums, as if millions of thieves suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has been suggested.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

9 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I felt a great disturbance on the forums, as if millions of thieves suddenly cried out in terror. I fear something terrible has been suggested.

Well, you look at all the builds that are problematic for stealth and you'll find that every single one of them uses heartseeker leaps through smoke fields. Has been the case since day one. Buffing thief either directly through it's damage or indirectly by changing marked/reveal while leaving this unchecked would make thief OP like it was before reveal was a thing. It's not rocket science to work out what needs to be changed if people actually want to see stealth be more healthy for thieves and non-thieves alike. 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

 

If thieves get better survival tools, sure. But they won't. And you know it. It is always the same, people complain about stealth/mobility on thieves but don't bother to find out why thieves have to play like this (namely having no alternative because THIS VERY community hated it when thieves could actually fight w/o relying on stealth and cried for nerfs 24/7).

Ah yes, Teefs don't have any evades, teleports, mobility skills, blinds, dazes, did I mention evades?
You know that very very few skills in the entire game can actually interact with "evades" and interrupt them, right?
Teefs could use builds that are based around evades alone and it would be toxic af to actually touch them as well, but they choose more toxic stealth based ones, I wonder why... It would be less aids to fight against them than cmirage, but still aids.
Stop pretending like they don't have tools, for real...

[kash.9213]

4 hours ago, Littlekenny.4196 said:

My thief build is designed 100% to run in a zerg and use the support other people provide with no consideration for roaming and no stealth.

 

I win or escape around 75% of roaming fights on it while alone.

 

If I added survivability skills like daggerstorm or shadowstep I would win less but survive around 90% of encounters.

 

If I changed from crit strikes to acrobatics I would win less and survive closer to 95%, then if I added energy sigils that would be even higher survival rate.

 

I could also switch to so more defensive gear like marauder too.

 

Thieves have plenty survival tools, unless you expect to go in 1 Vs 10 and survive like a thief using stealth can.

And those survival tools are what people complain about, that's been covered like two or three times in this thread alone, even in the comment you replied to. Without those, again, you can think you're built to tank all you want, but you'll gas out as a thief if you can't kill soon unless you can selectively steal the right boon or stack at clutch moments. Just because you're not being focused hard, doesn't mean other thieves are not.

[Dawdler.8521]

4 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Well, you look at all the builds that are problematic for stealth and you'll find that every single one of them uses heartseeker leaps through smoke fields. Has been the case since day one. Buffing thief either directly through it's damage or indirectly by changing marked/reveal while leaving this unchecked would make thief OP like it was before reveal was a thing. It's not rocket science to work out what needs to be changed if people actually want to see stealth be more healthy for thieves and non-thieves alike. 

The response went above your head.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

33 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The response went above your head.

Probably. I'm not having a good day for that xD

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The response went above your head.

Well maybe you shouldn't stealth it.

[Shroud.2307]

7 hours ago, Cynz.9437 said:

 

If thieves get better survival tools, sure. But they won't. And you know it. It is always the same, people complain about stealth/mobility on thieves but don't bother to find out why thieves have to play like this (namely having no alternative because THIS VERY community hated it when thieves could actually fight w/o relying on stealth and cried for nerfs 24/7).

The problem with Thief is that the skill floor is so much higher than everything else, and the skill ceiling is next to infinite.
It isn't an easy class to pick up and go, and even the easiest builds are bad gimmicks.

It's hard to balance something that lets you be nearly god mode if you're good with it, and makes you want to uninstall if you're average because all you can do is run away.

The class can fight perfectly fine. The issue is the skill needed to do so. That doesn't mean you need to put in more effort during a fight, but it does mean you'll need to put more effort in to improving.
The class doesn't bend to your inabilities like a lot of other classes do, unless you include your ability to disengage from fights, because anyone can do that.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well maybe you shouldn't stealth it.

Should have used reveal.