The new map looks great but…

[Fire Attunement.9835]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:05 PM, artcreator.4859 said:

PLEASE add difficulty.  Make the group fights actually challenging.     Make open world GW2 a great game and not just a great movie

Thank you for the feedback, and we've got you! 🙂 Something we mentioned during Guild Chat is that Shing Jea Island is a bit more quiet and peaceful early on, but that will change as you move forward. We only showed a little bit of the zone. 

[Sobx.1758]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:35 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

The player base is mostly casual. How would making the game more challenging be a good idea?

Probably because a lot of players won't improve if there's no reason to improve. Increasing the difficulty of the game as it goes (which tbh has been happening to an extent, seeing the differences between core and expansion content difficulties) is "a reason to improve" in itself. That then opens up more possibilities for the devs to implement new/harder/different content without people complaining about it "because it was always easier". Hopefully we're past listening to that excuse already -and since there are those small arenas (as parts of hearts?) explaining/reminding the players about the game mechanics as well as a battle arena where people can easly test out their builds in action, I think it might be a good warm up prepairing everyone to actually start using their skills/movement more deliberately.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Thank you for the feedback, and we've got you! 🙂 Something we mentioned during Guild Chat is that Shing Jea Island is a bit more quiet and peaceful early on, but that will change as you move forward. We only showed a little bit of the zone. 

Just be careful not to make it too hard, or it'll end up being off-putting for many casuals, just like the original iteration of HoT had been. We all know that casuals are the vast majority of the player base.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Increasing the difficulty of the game as it goes (which tbh has been happening to an extent, seeing the differences between core and expansion content difficulties) is "a reason to improve" in itself.

The developers need to be careful that the increase in difficulty will be gradual and the rise is not too steep. The game doesn't need another cliff like the original iteration of HoT that many people run into, bounce off and stop trying.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Krzysztof.5973]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Just be careful not to make it too hard, or it'll end up being off-putting for many casuals, just like the original iteration of HoT had been. We all know that casuals are the vast majority of the player base.

The developers need to be careful that the increase in difficulty will be gradual and the rise is not too steep. The game doesn't need another cliff like the original iteration of HoT that many people run into, bounce off and stop trying.

What gradual increase in difficulty? We are constantly on gradual decrease in difficulty 😂

[Gibson.4036]

Casuals do fine with increased difficulty if introduced to it in manageable steps and when games teach them what they need to do in order to step up.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Casuals do fine with increased difficulty if introduced to it in manageable steps and when games teach them what they need to do in order to step up.

Not really since we have to at times take 5 steps back before 1 forward in difficulty.

As one example look at icebrood saga proluge and then compare it to pof/hot first map.

[Gibson.4036]

46 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Not really since we have to at times take 5 steps back before 1 forward in difficulty.

As one example look at icebrood saga proluge and then compare it to pof/hot first map.

Is that because casuals, or because game design?

[FrigginPaco.4178]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:15 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

 

How would that be possible?  GW1 was instanced content.  GW2 is open world. 

I have a suspicion that Guild Wars 2's "open world" it's really just heavily modified instance from Guild Wars 1's PVE instances. Don't really have much to go on besides a sneaking suspicion, but I don't think it would be very difficult to do even if that weren't part of the actual options available to them. Surely there must be a way.

Edited October 11, 2021 by FrigginPaco.4178
Fixing phone auto correct

[FrigginPaco.4178]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:05 AM, artcreator.4859 said:

PLEASE add difficulty.  Make the group fights actually challenging.     Make open world GW2 a great game and not just a great movie

 

I just want to say that I love that you're fighting for more difficult content. However I preface your enthusiasm with a cautionary tale of what the argument can look like according to this community:

 

 

This was my attempt to bridge the argument of hard mode in Guild Wars 2 for Overworld content. There's real pushback, but I don't know why to be honest.

Edited October 11, 2021 by FrigginPaco.4178
More phone auto correct madness

[moony.5780]

I think this discusion is already a prof that adjustable content is needed. U find all types of prefreces here and in every post u find people who r against it(confused) or with it (heart).

Every good solo player game have adjustable difficulty. And GW2 is mainly a solo experience even its an MMO. Most people play it alone in open world and just sometimes meet up friends.

[moony.5780]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:35 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

Casual doesn't mean you suck at the game, it means you play it from time to time, so pandering does not feel OK. If the content is like a rollercoaster and a movie that can be passed with pressing auto attack, the game is SOLVED and there isn't much reason to run it again. I think they hit it dead center with current HoT maps, the enemies there force you to think and change your build and the group content is not challenging people with DPS but with coordination.

For example Drizzle wood looks awesome, but the gameplay really drags down and becomes stale since it is 1 to 2 hours per full run and it can't have failure state since it is 2 hours, it turns into a chore instead of experience. 

 

I 100% agree with u. I play very casual, and honestly..i prefer playing 1 hour intensive and hard content than playing 2 hours braindead content.

The best feeling is to beat something hard rather than rushing things while yawning. But challange need also reward 🙂

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/9/2021 at 4:35 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

The player base is mostly casual. How would making the game more challenging be a good idea?

 

Your mileage will vary, but HoT seemed to retain more players and replayability than PoF. And prior to HoT more challenging content was also requested. If they mix the two we can hope to see areas to explore and areas of varying challenge where people will both be able to solo and areas where you will want groups working at things. 

[Gibson.4036]

21 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Not really since we have to at times take 5 steps back before 1 forward in difficulty.

As one example look at icebrood saga proluge and then compare it to pof/hot first map.

I understand what you're saying. But is that because casuals just can't get better, or because the game has been uneven about the ramp up, as well as teaching us in increments we can scale?

Really well designed games steadily ramp up difficulty while preparing players for each step. When you do this, even the majority of casual players can make those steps. When the difficulty jumps up and down and the game isn't designed to lay out why, it leave players behind who might otherwise follow along just fine.

It's funny that people always say core Tyria, the leveling experience from 1-80, is just the "tutorial" for the real game. And yet, it's a pretty terrible tutorial. All the way through 80 levels you don't need to steadily learn any of the things you'll need to know to deal with harder content in expansions, and when harder content comes the game doesn't do a very good job of explaining why you're suddenly on the floor.

Sure, with persistence and some wiki reading or conversation with guild-mates you can figure it out, but that leaves something to be desired, and some to either come here and complain or just move on from the game altogether. And that's not a good result for ANet, casual, nor hardcore players.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's funny that people always say core Tyria, the leveling experience from 1-80, is just the "tutorial" for the real game. And yet, it's a pretty terrible tutorial. All the way through 80 levels you don't need to steadily learn any of the things you'll need to know to deal with harder content in expansions, and when harder content comes the game doesn't do a very good job of explaining why you're suddenly on the floor.

Reading 2 threads in this subforum, I'm kind of wondering how you can say things like this here, while simultaneously questioning in another thread what's the purpose of the tutorial area in the early EoD zone.

Seems like long tutorial in easier core is bad, because the content is too easy to use the mechanics and the tutorial is too long to remember. But quick refresher of the mechanics in early EoD zone? Also bad because players don't start there? 😄 

 

For clarity, this is the second thread I'm talking about: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/103049-eod-looks-so-bad-its-not-even-funny/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1485638

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

58 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Reading 2 threads in this subforum, I'm kind of wondering how you can say things like this here, while simultaneously questioning in another thread what's the purpose of the tutorial area in the early EoD zone.

Seems like long tutorial in easier core is bad, because the content is too easy to use the mechanics and the tutorial is too long to remember. But quick refresher of the mechanics in early EoD zone? Also bad because players don't start there? 😄 

 

For clarity, this is the second thread I'm talking about: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/103049-eod-looks-so-bad-its-not-even-funny/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1485638

 

To be honest, it's a combination of not having watched the video (which I now have) and the difference between a tutorial and the kind of steady ramp up I was describing.

So the ramp up I have in mind they actually did well in some parts of the living story. Introduce a new mechanic all by itself, then another, then another, then fight the end boss that uses all three mechanics. Or introduce a mechanic with no time pressure. Then repeat it with time pressure, then repeat it with more threat.

After watching the video, I can see how it would be useful, but it feels a little bit like "whoops, we probably should have done this back in Orr, so here you go!" And a bunch of tutorial mini games in a starter area is a good introduction, but not the ramp up.

I can give a one day workshop on drawing, and throw a lot of concepts at people that they might take and work into actual drawing skill. But if I can meet with someone twice a week, giving them new and more challenging assignments, I can give them a lot more success over time.

The problem with "core as tutorial" isn't that it was long, but that it didn't really increase the pressure or complexity, which is why many feel they run into a cliff when they hit HoT (I know, I know, it's been nerfed and was so much harder at launch).

Hope that makes sense.

[Gibson.4036]

Also my failure to really think about EOD as something people will go right into after core. 
As someone who’s been here a long time, feels like starting in the middle of a book. 

[witcher.3197]

On 10/9/2021 at 2:31 PM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I guess you missed the many points during the stream where the devs joked that '1-2 players couldn't do this' and popped invincibility when encountering any sort of combat?

They were clicking skills and playing hammer catalyst.. they'd need to pop invuln in Queensdale like that.

[lezbefriends.7516]

You want a challenge, just remove your friggin gear.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Mortifera.6138 said:

You want a challenge, just remove your friggin gear.

Well... you want self-play storytelling game, just pick a telltale instead of action mmorpg one.

[lezbefriends.7516]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Well... you want self-play storytelling game, just pick a telltale instead of action mmorpg one.

Uh… just because one prefers easy mode doesn’t mean they give a hoot about story.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Mortifera.6138 said:

Uh… just because one prefers easy mode doesn’t mean they give a hoot about story.

Then still a telltale game, but skip the dialogue.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[lezbefriends.7516]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Single player shooter with some invincibility codes then, w/e works for you. Or still a telltale game, but skip the dialogue.

Except easiness is the norm in an “action MMORPG”, so it’s you who’s in the wrong genre,

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Mortifera.6138 said:

Except easiness is the norm in an “action MMORPG”, so it’s you who’s in the wrong genre,

I don't know where you got that idea from. Action mmorpg =/= h'n's.

[lezbefriends.7516]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't know where you got that idea from. Action mmorpg =/= h'n's.

Name 2 difficult action MMORPGs…

[Sobx.1758]

53 minutes ago, Mortifera.6138 said:

Name 2 difficult action MMORPGs…

If gw2 is your standard of an overally hard action mmorpg, then most of the action mmorpgs are as well. With that knowledge, all your answers are a google search away.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758