Fixing Arms in 3 Simple Steps

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Recently, I’ve been toying around with Core War builds, notably Strength/Disc/Arms with GS/Axe+shield and Might Makes Right for sustain.  Much to my chagrin, I’ve found that I can get better damage output (and better sustain) by going Strength/Discipline/Defense and taking berserker’s power instead of MMR.  In other words, Berserker’s Power is better than the entire Arms trait line.  And since Arms offers very little in utility outside of its DPS boosts, and most of its synergy is with a largely ineffective weapon (sword), it’s hard not to call this a complete failure as a trait line.

 

But I don’t think it’s irredeemable.  In fact, I would go so far as to say that 2-3 changes would make a world of difference and make Arms a serious contender for Warrior builds.  With no further ado…

 

1.) Change Deep Strikes (currently: gain +180 condition damage when you have Fury) to “gain Might (5 stacks for 5s) every time you grant yourself Fury.”

The Arms trait line was clearly designed with a hybrid playstyle in mind—see: all the traits that increase critical chance or proc on critical hit; signet mastery granting a stacking ferocity buff, etc.  Despite this, one of the defining characteristics of the trait line, a buffed version of Fury, offers nothing for power builds.  Furthermore, the best weapon to pair with this trait is GS because of its ability to generate Fury with its burst attacks…but the GS gains nothing from +180 condition damage.  Changing Deep Strikes’ effect to provide bursts of might will offer something to power, condi, and true hybrid builds. 

 

Further, you’d be able to string together multiple Fury-producing skills/effects to rapidly boost might.  For instance, you could do Arcing Slice (which procs Furious Burst), Cyclone Axe, and For Great Justice to proc the Deep Strikes trait 4 times and quickly shoot to 20 might.  This is how Arms can compete with Berserker’s Power for raw damage output.

 

The might generation has obvious synergy with MMR and/or Mending Might—important, since Arms has no form of sustain in itself.  This will make it more viable to take Arms over something like Defense.

 

Further still, this change solves another problem of Arms—namely, that Warrior struggles to have any consistent might generation outside of running Strength with Forceful Greatsword.  Allowing Arms to be its own generator of might will open up combinations like Arms/Disc/Defense or Arms/Disc/Tactics.

 

2. Change Bloodlust (currently: 33% chance to inflict bleeding on crit, bleeds last 33%/15% (PvE/Comp) longer) to “Bleeding does 33% more damage.”

Condi warrior faces numerous issues (not least that sword is a sub-par weapon to begin with), but one of the major ones is that, apart from Berserker, bleeding—the least damaging condition—is the major condition that we can apply.  According to the skills editor, 1 stack of bleeding does 82 dmg/s with 1000 condition damage (competitive), meaning you’d have to be bringing a LOT of condi dmg if you want your bleeds to hurt.  What’s more, even if you stack 25 bleeds on someone, they can remove it all with a single weapon swap.  And while Condi War will likely always struggle unless it gains the ability to apply a diverse set of conditions, it could take a big step forward if it had traits that allowed bleeding to do more damage.  For those interested, 1 stack of bleeding with the 33% increase would do 109 dmg/s. 

 

Yes, my proposed change gives up the bleed on crit and the longer bleed duration, but I think the trade is worth it. The bleeds on crit are limited to 1s in competitive and are minimally impactful.  And even in PvE, you could probably get pretty close to capping at 25 bleeds even without bloodlust’s bleeds on crit (esp factoring in sigils and runes), making the extra bleeds unnecessary.  Moreover, Arms already has 2 traits that increase condi duration (Blademaster gives expertise, as does Wounding Precision), so this need is being addressed in other ways, and can further be addressed in PvE with armor and runes/sigils.  I would also argue that, in competitive, it’s more important for your condi to do damage faster than it is to do it longer, since the opponents have more opportunity to cleanse/heal the longer they are alive.  Beyond that, the trait currentlyonly extends bleeding duration by 15% in competitive anyway, so it’s not like you’re losing much.

 

3. Change Unsuspecting Foe (currently: increase critical chance (50%) vs disabled foes) to “gain +200 power and +200 condition damage for 4s when you disable a foe.”

 

The idea is that this would be an effect, like Rousing Resilience or Berserker’s Power, that you would proc by CC’ing an enemy.  Essentially, this is a Might-equivalent that cannot be stripped or corrupted and would allow you to surpass the Might cap for a short while.  And, just like the Deep Strikes change above, the boosts to power and condi means there’s something for everyone. 

 

Why does Unsuspecting Foe need a change in the first place?  Well, to put it bluntly, it sucks.  In PvE, it is easy to crit cap and so this trait has little to no value.  And in competitive, players take stun breaks that minimize the window in which you’d be getting your increased critical chance.  Furthermore, this trait offers little to nothing for pure condi builds.  You’d almost always be better off taking Sundering Burst or Blademaster. Again, in summary, it sucks.

 

Alright, that’s my 2 cents.  Let me know what you think.  Looking forward to the discussion!

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I want the [ Critical hits grant bonus adrenaline] effect of Furious as part of a Minor Trait.

As its the only reason i use Arms outside of Condi.

This way, you could actually design good GM Traits.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

43 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I want the [ Critical hits grant bonus adrenaline] effect of Furious as part of a Minor Trait.

As its the only reason i use Arms outside of Condi.

This way, you could actually design good GM Traits.

That could work. Good idea.

 

Maybe you could swap Furious and Bloodlust on the trait line. Furious (as a minor trait) gives the bonus adrenaline on crit -which helps power builds too, of course.  Bloodlust (now GM trait) then gives the +10 stacking condition bonus on crit AND increases bleed dmg by 33%.

 

How about that?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Dang now I gotta look for what me and Lan had posted in the omnibus. May take a bit. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Dang now I gotta look for what me and Lan had posted in the omnibus. May take a bit. 

😄

I do like your ideas @CalmTheStorm.2364. I want to point out that this is supposed to be the core condi/crit chance tree, but it does a rather poor job of both.

What I've suggested before and nudged along in the Omnibus are things like the following:

1. Wounding Precision: Add a rider to inflict torment. Either as a 33% chance, or whenever you bleed a target. Frankly I'd like to see it happen when you bleed a target. 5s/3s (PvE/Comp)
2. Opportunist: This needs the CD removed and just grant a flat % increase on critical hit chance versus movement impaired foes instead of Fury.
3. Unsuspecting Foe: This I've advocated for inflicting confusion when striking a controlled foe in addition to the crit chance with no ICD (5s/3s PvE/Comp). I like your idea though, but swap the power for precision. This is the condition and critical tree.
4. Sundering Bursts: We've been advocating that this get a rider that heals you per stack of vulnerability inflicted on the target. Nothing huge most of out vuln is done in large stacks. Something like 50-ish HP per stack with scaling like Mending Might. This gives a non might source of sustain.
5. Burst Precision: We've advocated that this effect linger for 1s per tier of burst used upon using (not hitting with) a burst attack. This somewhat mirrors the Thief trait, but requires a resource to fuel.
6. Dual Wielding just needs a complete rework. I've suggested inflicting conditions on critical hits with the OH weapon that are thematic to the weapon with OH dagger ripping boons on a critical hit.

That said when I've crunched the numbers the highest theoretical power dps that you can put out as far as modifier stacking is:

Str: Bot/mid if GS Bot otherwise/top

Arms: Mid/lol any/top

Tactics: Top/Top/lol any.

Assumes that you have 5 stacks of +100 Ferocity, target is above 80% HP and has barrier. Not that it plays out in practice mind you. Which makes me believe that the Devs never test out core warrior traits... On paper there is a lot of damage there, it just never gets realized.

[BlackTruth.6813]

I personally just.. want something small. Revert Warrior damage nerf by like 50% if we can't be healers with the shoutbreaker nerf, can we at least have TELEGRAPHED IMPACTFUL DAMAGE. Serious unblockable arms power specs was the only thing Core had going for it, it was worth playing when it had high damage.

Edited October 11, 2021 by BlackTruth.6813

[Katary.7096]

20 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Yes, my proposed change gives up the bleed on crit and the longer bleed duration, but I think the trade is worth it. The bleeds on crit are limited to 1s in competitive and are minimally impactful.  And even in PvE, you could probably get pretty close to capping at 25 bleeds even without bloodlust’s bleeds on crit (esp factoring in sigils and runes), making the extra bleeds unnecessary.  Moreover, Arms already has 2 traits that increase condi duration (Blademaster gives expertise, as does Wounding Precision), so this need is being addressed in other ways, and can further be addressed in PvE with armor and runes/sigils.  I would also argue that, in competitive, it’s more important for your condi to do damage faster than it is to do it longer, since the opponents have more opportunity to cleanse/heal the longer they are alive.  Beyond that, the trait currentlyonly extends bleeding duration by 15% in competitive anyway, so it’s not like you’re losing much.

I can't really figure out what you mean when you wrote about capping something at 25 bleeds. As far as I can tell there is no trait effect in Arms which triggers on inflicting a certain number of bleed stacks?

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

I can't really figure out what you mean when you wrote about capping something at 25 bleeds. As far as I can tell there is no trait effect in Arms which triggers on inflicting a certain number of bleed stacks?

Sorry for the confusion! I was trying to say that a player could probably apply 25 stacks of bleeding on a target WITHOUT relying on the extra bleed stacks from the bloodlust trait. Does that clear things up?

[Katary.7096]

15 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Sorry for the confusion! I was trying to say that a player could probably apply 25 stacks of bleeding on a target WITHOUT relying on the extra bleed stacks from the bloodlust trait. Does that clear things up?

Thank you for clarifying it. But why does it matter that it is 25 stacks? Damaging conditions were uncapped years ago, surely you haven't missed that and Warrior builds have no element which benefits from 25 bleed stacks on their targets. I still feel like something has gone over my head, but I would agree that in general 33% more bleeding damage is better than 33% more bleeding duration.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

Thank you for clarifying it. But why does it matter that it is 25 stacks? Damaging conditions were uncapped years ago, surely you haven't missed that and Warrior builds have no element which benefits from 25 bleed stacks on their targets. I still feel like something has gone over my head, but I would agree that in general 33% more bleeding damage is better than 33% more bleeding duration.

Its that generally 25 stacks of a condition in competitive play is usually very good damage for the length of time that they are present. Some classes like ranger are able to pump out large stacks of bleed, mesmer can pump out large stacks of confusion, renegade can dump large stacks of torment, etc.

warrior doesn't do that well currently unless it is on a raid golem/boss. Very few players will let themselves get hit buy a full Flurry, and even if they did they would only eat a few hits since they'll pop a condi cleanse to remove the immob and possibly what bleed you did put on them.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:37 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I want to point out that this is supposed to be the core condi/crit chance tree, but it does a rather poor job of both.

Agreed; I think that was definitely the developers' aim behind the Arms line.  However, I think that it would be good to reassess that aim if we're talking about a re-work.  I feel this mostly because Precision and Condi are an unhappy marriage at best.  Capitalizing on Precision/Critical hits requires both power and ferocity, and investing in power/precision/ferocity usually precludes having a functional condi build.  

 

What I'm imagining is refocusing the Arms line around the Fury boon, and doing so in a way that should offer plenty of value regardless of whether you're designing a power, condi, or hybrid build.

 

I think introducing a central mechanic (via the Deep Strikes rework proposed in the OP) that links might generation to Fury generation would be just the thing.  And, of course, might generation is core to Warrior's identity and synergizes with with other trait lines--all things you want in a well-designed trait line.

 

In light of the conversation with @DanAlcedo.3281 above, I would revise my proposals for the minor traits as follows:

 

Furious Burst: same as it is

Deep Strikes:  Same as proposed above: gain 5 stacks of might for 5s when you grant yourself Fury (might need to be 3-4 stacks might in pvp/wvw)

Furious (swapping places with Bloodlust):  gain bonus adrenaline on critical hit

 

Thoughts on other traits:

 

Unsuspecting Foe:

Could be reworked multiple ways, including the original suggestion or what you suggested.  Alternatively, to keep with the theme of focusing on Fury, could also be "gain Fury when you disable a foe."  This ensures you have Fury (and the accompanying burst of Might)  to capitalize on a CC'd foe.

 

Bloodlust (now a GM trait in place of Furious):

Gain +10 stacking condition damage bonus on critical hit

Bleeds do 33% more damage.

 

OR

 

Bleeds last 33% longer AND do 33% more damage.  (this is probably better)

 

Burst Precision:

It's OK as it is, but might be better aligned with the theme  if it were reworked (and renamed) to something like:

 

Furious Power(inspired by Ranger's Vicious Quarry):

Fury grants additional 10% critical chance

Do 10% more damage while you have Fury 

 

These traits would ensure that there is "something for everyone" at every level of the trait line; both power and condi builds can find a lot of value here.

 

On 10/11/2021 at 6:37 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What I've suggested before and nudged along in the Omnibus are things like the following:

1. Wounding Precision: Add a rider to inflict torment. Either as a 33% chance, or whenever you bleed a target. Frankly I'd like to see it happen when you bleed a target. 5s/3s (PvE/Comp)
2. Opportunist: This needs the CD removed and just grant a flat % increase on critical hit chance versus movement impaired foes instead of Fury.
3. Unsuspecting Foe: This I've advocated for inflicting confusion when striking a controlled foe in addition to the crit chance with no ICD (5s/3s PvE/Comp). I like your idea though, but swap the power for precision. This is the condition and critical tree.
4. Sundering Bursts: We've been advocating that this get a rider that heals you per stack of vulnerability inflicted on the target. Nothing huge most of out vuln is done in large stacks. Something like 50-ish HP per stack with scaling like Mending Might. This gives a non might source of sustain.
5. Burst Precision: We've advocated that this effect linger for 1s per tier of burst used upon using (not hitting with) a burst attack. This somewhat mirrors the Thief trait, but requires a resource to fuel.
6. Dual Wielding just needs a complete rework. I've suggested inflicting conditions on critical hits with the OH weapon that are thematic to the weapon with OH dagger ripping boons on a critical hit.

 

All very good ideas.  As is often the case, there is more than one way to skin a cat!

 

Thoughts on Dual Wield:

I don't think it's a bad trait...it's just that Warrior doesn't have 2 good weapons besides Axe/Axe to pair together, esp not in PvP/WvW.  If Sword and/or Mace get the reworks we hope, that could change.  Here's hoping!

 

As always, thanks for the great discussion!

[Ferus.3165]

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Thoughts on Dual Wield:

I don't think it's a bad trait...it's just that Warrior doesn't have 2 good weapons besides Axe/Axe to pair together, esp not in PvP/WvW.  If Sword and/or Mace get the reworks we hope, that could change.  Here's hoping!

 

As always, thanks for the great discussion!

Dual Wield also has to stack with quickness or it will never be used. If that is not possible this trait should be reworked aswell.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

About Dual Wielding and quickness.

From the notes section on quickness: 

• Increasing the casting speed by 50% means an actual reduction of casting times of just 33%.

 And from Dual Wielding:

 Dual Wielding affects both the activation time and the aftercast, resulting in an overall 20% increase to attack speed.
 

There is a distinct difference between how the two work. Quickness for instance will not affect your aftercasts, but DW will. One actually gives you the true listed increase (DW) while the other is actually less than you would think.

There as a 13% difference in speed between the two overall.

The problem overall is that the only OH really worth using is Axe and it comes with built in quickness. Dagger OH has spike potential sure, and there are people who meme with it and sword for the WR->FT combo, but honestly Dual Strike -> FT is just as strong and Whirling Axe is better than Dagger Storm, so Axe wins again.

I didn't test it during the Beta but did Pistol trigger Dual Wielding's IAS? If it does, or is made to, then I can see that working well.

I will say that when I run DW, all the MH speeds finally feel right, and I suspect that is because of the reduction in aftercast animations.

[Doomfrost.5728]

Bloodlust should heal the warrior per application of a bleed. I don't know by how much, but to me bloodlust implies that the warrior thirsts/craves the blood of his enemies and gains a sense of vigor for each wound they apply. 

 

Dual Strikes I'd rework to add an ammo counter to your offhand weapon abilities on weapons that classify as a main hand (Thus the name Dual Strike). Might be overpowered, but the possibility of a warrior performing two whirling axes, bladestorm's, Impales, Tremors, etc... within a short amount of time sounds fascinating to me. Of course you'd have to add a small cooldown between ammo uses so you couldn't use them one right after the other so it follows the mechanics of other ammo based skills.

 

I'd also add +5 power to Furious Surge just to give warriors another route to gaining power.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Doomfrost.5728

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

On 10/14/2021 at 5:23 AM, Doomfrost.5728 said:

Bloodlust should heal the warrior per application of a bleed. I don't know by how much, but to me bloodlust implies that the warrior thirsts/craves the blood of his enemies and gains a sense of vigor for each wound they apply. 

That's a pretty neat idea.  You could make it a Life Siphon proc on applying bleed, something like:

 

Bloodlust:

Bleeding does 33% more damage

Applying bleeds siphon's life from foes (130 LS damage and 100 LS healing/ stack of bleed).

 

That'd be pretty kitten strong, actually.  Would actually allow core condi warrior to be fearsome, even though he mostly just applies bleeding.  Nice idea, @Doomfrost.5728!

Edited October 15, 2021 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[DKRathalos.9625]

Maybe OOC maybe not but I want to say something about [ARMS]

Even if we fix it, will it be really viable for power type playing? I am not mentioning condi since well condi berserker will be locked in Arms/Disc/Berserker anyway.

 

Let's see
[Strength] gives

Peak Performance 5% damage

Pinnacle of power extra 250 power at 25 might

Berserker power 21% damage

Great Fortitude extra ferocity based on power

 

[Discipline]

Warrior's Sprint 10% damage under swiftness boon

Double standard extra 50 stat from banner

Axe Mastery 240 ferocity [16% Critical damage) if wielding axe, extra adrenaline, Cdr for axe (Key Mastery on Berserker Axe/Axe)

Burst Mastery 7% burst damage Restore 33% adrenaline spent (Key Mastery on Bladesworn)

Now even with redesign how will arms compete with discipline? with 2 important mastery there.
Like let's say we redesign arm, I saw there is extra adrenaline on critical hit, seems similar with axe mastery right? but losing 240 ferocity, and CDR might be bad idea.
The Restore33% adrenaline/Flow is very important on bladesworn because flow cost is a lot and not many buildup it allows faster build up.

As the power warrior we kinda stuck with discipline because of how impactful the grandmaster trait at discipline.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

What is needed from arms is more direct condi application and a steady crit chance upkeep. Like super fury or a persisting burst precision.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

Maybe OOC maybe not but I want to say something about [ARMS]

Even if we fix it, will it be really viable for power type playing? I am not mentioning condi since well condi berserker will be locked in Arms/Disc/Berserker anyway.

 

Let's see
[Strength] gives

Peak Performance 5% damage

Pinnacle of power extra 250 power at 25 might

Berserker power 21% damage

Great Fortitude extra ferocity based on power

 

[Discipline]

Warrior's Sprint 10% damage under swiftness boon

Double standard extra 50 stat from banner

Axe Mastery 240 ferocity [16% Critical damage) if wielding axe, extra adrenaline, Cdr for axe (Key Mastery on Berserker Axe/Axe)

Burst Mastery 7% burst damage Restore 33% adrenaline spent (Key Mastery on Bladesworn)

Now even with redesign how will arms compete with discipline? with 2 important mastery there.
Like let's say we redesign arm, I saw there is extra adrenaline on critical hit, seems similar with axe mastery right? but losing 240 ferocity, and CDR might be bad idea.
The Restore33% adrenaline/Flow is very important on bladesworn because flow cost is a lot and not many buildup it allows faster build up.

As the power warrior we kinda stuck with discipline because of how impactful the grandmaster trait at discipline.

I think the changes I proposed would give lots of value to a power-based build.  Indeed, that was my main aim.

 

Linking Fury gain with Might gain would be a way for power builds to boost power or condi builds to boost condi dmg; thus, it would be a big improvement over the +180 condition damage that Fury grants in Arms right now.  

 

I would imagine a power Core Warrior w/ Strength/Discipline/Arms.  GS procs Fury with every burst, so you would have very high fury up-time along with the might generation that comes with it.  This would feed MMR for significant sustain, and would allow Warriors to quickly reach 25 stacks of might and maintain it.  

 

The Furious Power idea suggested earlier (Fury grants additional 10% critical chance increase [so 30% now] and increase damage by 10% while you have Fury) would also be a huge boost for power builds.  High might generation with +30% crit chance and +10% damage modifier--all while feeding MMR for healing and endurance gain?  Sounds like a winner to me.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

21 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I would imagine a power Core Warrior w/ Strength/Discipline/Arms.  GS procs Fury with every burst, so you would have very high fury up-time along with the might generation that comes with it.  This would feed MMR for significant sustain, and would allow Warriors to quickly reach 25 stacks of might and maintain it.  

The Furious Power idea suggested earlier (Fury grants additional 10% critical chance increase [so 30% now] and increase damage by 10% while you have Fury) would also be a huge boost for power builds.  High might generation with +30% crit chance and +10% damage modifier--all while feeding MMR for healing and endurance gain?  Sounds like a winner to me.

@Grand Marshal.4098Imagine how good your Valk/Cavalier Warrior would be with this set-up....Probably would be new meta, tbh.

 

Crusader would also be a fascinating pick, as the extra healing power would improve the sustain from Mending and constant incoming healing from MMR.  And you'd still have decent ferocity to make your crits count, too.  Probably wouldn't want to do a full set of Crusader, but mixing Crusader and Valk/Marauder could be good.

I'm no good at WvW build-crafting, but see what you think:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7OWLWLPA-zVRYDBHG1sDpRVQnSgKECu8AEwe41EgNNA-w

Edited October 16, 2021 by CalmTheStorm.2364
added build link

[Grand Marshal.4098]

32 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098Imagine how good your Valk/Cavalier Warrior would be with this set-up....Probably would be new meta, tbh.

 

Crusader would also be a fascinating pick, as the extra healing power would improve the sustain from Mending and constant incoming healing from MMR.  And you'd still have decent ferocity to make your crits count, too.  Probably wouldn't want to do a full set of Crusader, but mixing Crusader and Valk/Marauder could be good.

I'm no good at WvW build-crafting, but see what you think:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7OWLWLPA-zVRYDBHG1sDpRVQnSgKECu8AEwe41EgNNA-w

Looks very juicy. Effectively very similar toughness to Valk/Knight setup, just as good ferocity, similar power output and the real deal is the healing power. MMR gets augmented nicely there. Very solid. I like it a lot, will def give it a try with it's current iteration. 

 

The only "tough" part with DrD runes is knowing when to proc the crit on Reckless Impact and when to dodge awya from the enemy to give the crit to your burst. Just today I had a nasty 4k reckless impact (full fero stacks from sigil and signet, with fero food) and a crazy Hamm 2 which I haven't seen in a long while vs a camp supervisor. 13K

[DKRathalos.9625]

6 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I think the changes I proposed would give lots of value to a power-based build.  Indeed, that was my main aim.

 

Linking Fury gain with Might gain would be a way for power builds to boost power or condi builds to boost condi dmg; thus, it would be a big improvement over the +180 condition damage that Fury grants in Arms right now.  

 

I would imagine a power Core Warrior w/ Strength/Discipline/Arms.  GS procs Fury with every burst, so you would have very high fury up-time along with the might generation that comes with it.  This would feed MMR for significant sustain, and would allow Warriors to quickly reach 25 stacks of might and maintain it.  

 

The Furious Power idea suggested earlier (Fury grants additional 10% critical chance increase [so 30% now] and increase damage by 10% while you have Fury) would also be a huge boost for power builds.  High might generation with +30% crit chance and +10% damage modifier--all while feeding MMR for healing and endurance gain?  Sounds like a winner to me.

I can see the Core warrior improvement Calm but for Elite spec which is normally more powerful than core build it's really not that much improvement?

Linking fury with might gain is good for open world or solo play but when it comes to group play where you can get constant might, it maybe not that significant.

Furious Power: 10% extra crit and 10% strike damage. (I think is the main power increase on arms tree?)
The disc got 10% strike damage under Swiftness (warrior's sprint) then 240 Ferocity (16% crit damage), CDR on Axe, much extra adrenaline on critical hit, only losing 10% extra crit but gain so much benefit.

Like unless we powercreep Arm super hard it can't compete with Disc. There is 1 thing I can suggest is Moving the Axe Mastery to Arms while maybe moving the burst precision to Disc? Since burst related stuff probably better on disc.

This way you can make Berserker power going STR/ARms/Zerk and bladesworn go STR/Disc/Blade. At least it encourage build variety.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

I can see the Core warrior improvement Calm but for Elite spec which is normally more powerful than core build it's really not that much improvement?

Linking fury with might gain is good for open world or solo play but when it comes to group play where you can get constant might, it maybe not that significant.

Furious Power: 10% extra crit and 10% strike damage. (I think is the main power increase on arms tree?)
The disc got 10% strike damage under Swiftness (warrior's sprint) then 240 Ferocity (16% crit damage), CDR on Axe, much extra adrenaline on critical hit, only losing 10% extra crit but gain so much benefit.

Like unless we powercreep Arm super hard it can't compete with Disc. There is 1 thing I can suggest is Moving the Axe Mastery to Arms while maybe moving the burst precision to Disc? Since burst related stuff probably better on disc.

This way you can make Berserker power going STR/ARms/Zerk and bladesworn go STR/Disc/Blade. At least it encourage build variety.

You're absolutely right; Core War will probably benefit more from these changes than SpB or Berserker will.  But that's OK!  Core should be equally viable, and that will only happen if the core trait lines are good enough to mix and match.

 

But I think you could still get some good value on Berserker and SpB, at least in PvE.  Consider these:

1.) Spellbreaker

Strength/Arms/SpB

GS/ dagger+dagger

take dual wield in Arms (or Furious Power, w/e you like), generate tons of might and healing from your daggers via MMR and sun and moon style

 

2.) Condi Berserker

Arms/Disc/Berserker

Sw+Torch/ Mace/Sw (or Longbow)

Could take the new Bloodlust, or dual wield if running Mace/Sw or something

Maxing out might gen will make the condi hit a lot harder than it does currently, at least when running solo or in small parties when you can't count on someone else supplying the might.

 

Not saying these are gonna be meta, but just to show that there is some potential there in PvE.

 

[Blumpf.2518]

Problem with Warrior: Youre 99% of the time a Bannerslave.

As Bannerslave you have to take "Discipline" Traitline  cause of improved Banners.

As Berserker: You have to take Discipline to build up Adrenaline fast enough with bonus Adrenaline on Crit. Without the bonus adrenaline you cant spam F1 often enough as Power-Berserker. Even as Condi-Berserker you need the Discipline Traitline to get Adrenaline back after you use F1.

 

Arms traitline has stuff for power and condition, but the problem is, the thing that makes it good for power is the trait that gives +100 Ferocity if you use a Signet. But to always have +500 Ferocity you have to play with 3 Signets and use them on cooldown.

So that means your utility skills are: HealSignet, Signet of Fury (cause lowest cooldown), 2x Banner, Signet of Rage.

 

And if you play a power build the traitline that grants most DPS increase is the "Strength" Traitline.

So as Power youre basically locked on: Strength-Discipline-Berserker/Spellbreaker or on the Core Version Strength-Discipline-Tactics (for empower allies as teamsupport).

As Condi youre locked on: Arms-Discipline-Berserker

Taking Tactics and Discipline Traitline and an Elite specc is no real Option cause thats less DPS.

 

So as Power Warrior the only thing where arms might make sense is a core-DPS build that uses Strength-Arms-Discipline, plays without Banners and with at least 3x Signet. Good luck finding a group as a warrior whos not BS.

 

Warrior needs a real rework. First thing aNet should do is remove the improved Banners trait and make Banners affect 10 Players again. This would remove the need to take the Discipline Traitline as a BS.

Then add Minor traits to each Traitline that improves some weapons and remove the traits "Axe Mastery" and "Burst Mastery" from Discipline.

The Minor Traits could look like:

Strength: Improved Power-Based Weapons like Greatsword and Axe. Bonus Adrenaline on Crit with these Weapons.

Arms: Improved Condi-Based Weapons like Sword and Longbow. Bonus Adrenaline if you Apply a Condition.

Defense: Improved Defensive Weapons like Mace and Shield. Bonus Adrenaline if you block an attack or stun an enemy.

Tactics: Improved Support Weapons like Warhorn. Bonus Adrenaline for each Player you give Boons to.

Discipline: Improved competitive Weapons like Hammer and Rifle. Bonus Adrenaline if you interrupt or stun an enemy.

 

If aNet doesnt force players to always take Discipline as Warrior, then we get more ways to play it.

[DKRathalos.9625]

2 hours ago, Blumpf.2518 said:

Problem with Warrior: Youre 99% of the time a Bannerslave.

As Bannerslave you have to take "Discipline" Traitline  cause of improved Banners.

I am totally agree with this and have to quote it. Bladesworn will change that? Nah... Look at people hitting 40k+ dps on a bannerslave at golem. You can go full DPS spec but people will say "Dude... just be bannerslave your DPS is already crazy high compared to other class what's the point of going full DPS?"
Special situation where you guys maybe run all Bladesworn for DPS spec.

 

And the current situation is "We only want you because of banner, full DPS compared to Banner is not that much difference, better help party for it."

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

I am totally agree with this and have to quote it. Bladesworn will change that? Nah... Look at people hitting 40k+ dps on a bannerslave at golem. You can go full DPS spec but people will say "Dude... just be bannerslave your DPS is already crazy high compared to other class what's the point of going full DPS?"
Special situation where you guys maybe run all Bladesworn for DPS spec.

 

And the current situation is "We only want you because of banner, full DPS compared to Banner is not that much difference, better help party for it."

The depends on if the Jokesworn going 100% full DPS is more DPS than the rest of the group getting marginal stat increases + Jokesworn doing ~15k less dps on their rotation.