Speculation: New Elite will give us Alacrity

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

Idea I wanted to speculate on, I think its in the realm of possibilities and likely that the next Ranger elite will get access to Alacrity. Wanted to make a new post separate from the other elite speculation posts for this specific topic.

Currently in the game there are only two classes that provide group alacrity: Revenant (5 man from Salvation, 10 man from Renegade) and Mesmer (10 man from Mirage, 5 man from Chrono). Realistically though, only Renegade and Mirage are taken due to providing 10 man alacrity.

Looking at quickness as a comparison, there were also only three classes that provided group quickness: Mesmer (Chrono), Engineer (Scrapper), and Guardian (Firebrand). As we've seen from the other elite spec betas, both Necro Harbinger and Ele Catalyst will be able to provide quickness and can compete with the aforementioned classes in PvE content. It's pretty obvious that expanding the classes that bring these critical boons to group content is something that Anet is trying to do. Both Scourge and Tempest are already able to be brought as healers, but they didn't have options for having a boon support role.

We have not yet seen any of the new elite specs provide group Alacrity, but I doubt it's something Anet is going to avoid this round of elites. Out of the three remaining classes Engineer can already build for quickness, so I'm not expecting Anet to double up on boon support classes. The only class that has done that so far is Mesmer with Chronomancer, which I see as an exception rather than a norm they are looking to establish.

That leaves us with Thief and Ranger. Thief is still a possibility since their only support PvE build (Boon Thief) is solely reliant on whether or not enemies can provide plasma. Especially if scepter thief is speculated to be a support oriented elite, letting it provide boons will help in that regard. Thief providing itself Alacrity though outside of PvE content though doesn't synergize terribly well though since Thief is gated by initiative rather than skill CDs like every other class.

Ranger already has a support focused build from Druid, but similar to Tempest it is there only to provide healing, might, and fury, neither quickness nor alacrity. Ele is getting an elite that can provide quickness despite already having a healing focused elite, so it's likely the same justification can be given for Ranger. If Anet is also trying to ride on the Bunny Thumper nostalgia train, I can see alacrity being a way to allude to how that build used to work being able to spam more abilities by providing alacrity (I haven't played GW1, so I am not completely sure if that was how the class used to be played, only basing it off of my own readings).

It's entirely possible for both Thief and Ranger to get access to alacrity though, but since we got two new quickness specs anyway, there's a good chance we can get alacrity as well.

Edited October 12, 2021 by AlexndrTheGreat.8310

[InsaneQR.7412]

Could also be that they give Alac to thief and remove the initiative system instead. Similarly how they gave barrier to scourge as compensation for the removed deathshroud.

 

This could also be a double down, where they remove steal and replace it with a new F1 that buffs allies arround you and has interactions with stealth. While the replacement for initiative could be energy that fuels the new F1.

So the class mechanic, the utilities or both could get alac in some way.

 

For ranger i think alac would be a nice pairing and if we get consecrations (which would be a fitting utility tbh). I also hope for more CC on the new spec.

 

Class mechanic wise i am a bit dumbfounded tbh. It could be a juggernaut pet, it could be a juggernaut mode for the ranger himself, it could be both or something else entirely. Eitherway i doubt alac will be bound to the profession mechanic or the Hammer skills, so utility only.

[Infusion.7149]

I'm confused, why do you think Detonate Plasma gives alacrity?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detonate_Plasma

Also catalyst quickness is unusable in its current iteration and every build thus far is super hitbox reliant.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

 

I'm confused, why do you think Detonate Plasma gives alacrity?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detonate_Plasma

 

Ahh my bad, I thought it was quickness it didn’t give, mixed that up.

“Also catalyst quickness is unusable in its current iteration and every build thus far is super hitbox reliant.”

It’s still the first beta pass for it. I’m sure things like numbers tuning and reducing the need for certain hit box sizes will be changed at some point. Regardless, the idea that Anet wants Ele to be able to provide quickness is still there, I don’t see that changing. I’m sure that there will be some sort of significant overall of Catalyst at some point, but I don’t think that concept is going to be removed.

Edited October 12, 2021 by AlexndrTheGreat.8310

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I feel they have to  do something with commands.  Guessing thief gets the support stuff and ranger gets some random nonsense with command that half works in a group setting (like soulbeast stances or druid healing).  

If they want to double down on the asinine, they could have the spec mechanic be changing the skillbar and giving 'commands' to the pet with indirect benefits to other allies

So...engi toolkits but much, much worse.  .  

Edited October 12, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Dadnir.5038]

You know, they can simply add a pet that provide group alacrity. I don't see why they would bother create a whole ranger e-spec to add alacrity to the kit. (Same goes for quickness)

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You know, they can simply add a pet that provide group alacrity. I don't see why they would bother create a whole ranger e-spec to add alacrity to the kit. (Same goes for quickness)

Highly unlikely that they will add a pet which will provide perma alacrity to a group.

The investment required for alacrity would be way too little in that case. Just for taking a pet, getting group perma alacrity? Sounds like way too less investment for such a powerful boon.

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Highly unlikely that they will add a pet which will provide perma alacrity to a group.

The investment required for alacrity would be way too little in that case. Just for taking a pet, getting group perma alacrity? Sounds like way too less investment for such a powerful boon.

There is a pet that provide perma fury with 0 investment (the tiger), why not alacrity? Everything is possible with GW2 devs even the most ridiculous things.

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

There is a pet that provide perma fury with 0 investment (the tiger), why not alacrity? Everything is possible with GW2 devs even the most ridiculous things.

I doubt that Anet would want to open up Druids bringing alacrity to groups. If they’re wanting Rangers to provide a boon support build to groups, it would be a completely different build than tacking it onto Druid.

[draxynnic.3719]

I'd actually see thieves being gated by initiative rather than cooldown to be a reason to expect it there. The trend after chronomancer has been for alacrity givers to be gated by something other than just cooldowns - energy for revs, endurance for mirages. This might be deliberate - it reduces the advantage the profession can potentially gain through its own alacrity when not part of a group.

 

So if ranger gets it, I'd also expect it to come with some sort of profession mechanic.

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

There is a pet that provide perma fury with 0 investment (the tiger), why not alacrity? Everything is possible with GW2 devs even the most ridiculous things.

Fury is a much more common boon to provide than alacrity. 

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Fury is a much more common boon to provide than alacrity.

We are moving on, at first alacrity was just on chrono, then little by little it spread till the point that, in fact, it's starting to close on fury.

3 hours ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

I doubt that Anet would want to open up Druids bringing alacrity to groups. If they’re wanting Rangers to provide a boon support build to groups, it would be a completely different build than tacking it onto Druid.

Why not? Druid is dwindling in popularity since the rise of the FB/Renegade duo at the start of PoF. Druid being a 1 trick pony, it's slowly losing the raid healer role which is it's "raison d'être". An access to alacrity via the "shiny OP new xpac pet" cheap trick might be the best way to "revive" him (after all, giving him alacrity would merely make him stand toe to toe with ventari revenant).

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

There is a pet that provide perma fury with 0 investment (the tiger), why not alacrity? Everything is possible with GW2 devs even the most ridiculous things.

There is also traits, runes and various other things that give perma fury. Fury increases damage while alacrity gives not only more damage but also more healing and more buffs. Alacrity is probably one of the strongest if not THE strongest group buff in the game. While fury is a damage buff that is so ubiquitous cause of solo play and not due to group play interactions.

Edited October 12, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:19 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Why not? Druid is dwindling in popularity since the rise of the FB/Renegade duo at the start of PoF. Druid being a 1 trick pony, it's slowly losing the raid healer role which is it's "raison d'être". An access to alacrity via the "shiny OP new xpac pet" cheap trick might be the best way to "revive" him (after all, giving him alacrity would merely make him stand toe to toe with ventari revenant).

I feel like, similar to Tempest and Scourge, Anet just doesn’t want to keep increasing the toolkit/scope of Druid. Both Tempest and Scourge in PvE have support oriented builds, but lack both alacrity and quickness and so are regulated into pure healing support. Both classes are also getting quickness builds though despite that being something that could have just been added to those specs. These boons would be a tool that new elites get rather than dumping everything into old ones.

Druid not having a strong presence outside of raids though is rather disappointing, but is more of a separate topic. It would have to go some mechanical rework to allow it usage in other game modes, but still would probably not look to expand what buffs Druid can bring.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

I feel like, similar to Tempest and Scourge, Anet just doesn’t want to keep increasing the toolkit/scope of Druid. Both Tempest and Scourge in PvE have support oriented builds, but lack both alacrity and quickness and so are regulated into pure healing support. Both classes are also getting quickness builds though despite that being something that could have just been added to those specs. These boons would be a tool that new elites get rather than dumping everything into old ones.

Druid not having a strong presence outside of raids though is rather disappointing, but is more of a separate topic. It would have to go some mechanical rework to allow it usage in other game modes, but still would probably not look to expand what buffs Druid can bring.

This is also ignoring the fact that druid has strong unique buffs, so it doesn't actually need quickness or alacrity to be desirable...

People will gladly take a druid in high end PvE just to get access to frost spirit alone, which you can't get any other way than taking a ranger subclass in your party. Alacrity and quickness are easier to get, since multiple classes can bring it with them.

Strong buffs are not what druid lacks, the problem is how it works mechanically and that's why it isn't taken outside of raids, as you mention. Giving druid alacrity wouldn't change this.

[anduriell.6280]

47 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

This is also ignoring the fact that druid has strong unique buffs...

 

Strong buffs are not what druid lacks....

Sadly not from long time ago, Anet removed Grace of the Land and Glyph of Empowerment buffs, leaving Druid just with might generation. 

So to be honest Druid brings nothing more than a soulbeast or core could bring, just the healing is very friendly with pugs in raids. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Kodama.6453]

9 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Sadly not from long time ago, Anet removed Grace of the Land and Glyph of Empowerment buffs, leaving Druid just with might generation. 

So to be honest Druid brings nothing more than a soulbeast or core could bring, just the healing is very friendly with pugs in raids. 

True statement, but it ignores the context of the comment chain.

Starting point of this discussion has been that Dadnir suggested a pet for ranger which provides perma alacrity for an entire group all on it's own. Which wouldn't change the point you mention here, since pets are available for all subclasses of ranger, therefore giving ranger a pet with alacrity would still not make druid bring anything to the table that core ranger or soulbeast can't also provide, besides the healing.

But I have to say that I also don't agree that a class needs to bring something unique to the table. Druid is a strong healer, while also being able to provide unique buffs to a party with the spirits. Sure, it is not unique among the ranger class as a whole, but I don't think it needs to be. What druid brings on top of spirits which are a core ranger thing is the healing.

[anduriell.6280]

16 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

True statement, but it ignores the context of the comment chain.

Starting point of this discussion has been that Dadnir suggested a pet for ranger which provides perma alacrity for an entire group all on it's own. Which wouldn't change the point you mention here, since pets are available for all subclasses of ranger, therefore giving ranger a pet with alacrity would still not make druid bring anything to the table that core ranger or soulbeast can't also provide, besides the healing.

In defense of Dadnir point, the pets were designed to bring utility to the ranger otherwise not available to the class (fear from wolf or smokefield from smokescale) so it would be to be expected some pet will bring alacricity in the future for the ranger or as an AOE. 

This does not go against the phylosophy behind the ranger design. 

 

Quote

But I have to say that I also don't agree that a class needs to bring something unique to the table. Druid is a strong healer, while also being able to provide unique buffs to a party with the spirits. Sure, it is not unique among the ranger class as a whole, but I don't think it needs to be. What druid brings on top of spirits which are a core ranger thing is the healing.

That is the stapple for the ranger, unique shared buffs. This is again small nuisances about the class original design, Ranger has always been able to share unique buffs (spotter and spirits). Also always with  addtional range over the mechanics existing for other classes (throwable traps comes to mind when other classes only could set them at their feet), Shortbow used to be 1200 range above any other shortbows range thus the flaking mechanics (they work better the longer the range) and short conditions applications (as the attacks would start sooner and farther) .  
 

Anet removing those unique nuisanses and details about the class is what is making the ranger so plain and boring. And i think they should start returning them.
 

But in any case, those are part of the ranger design so i would not dimish them so quickly. 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Kodama.6453]

43 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

In defense of Dadnir point, the pets were designed to bring utility to the ranger otherwise not available to the class (fear from wolf or smokefield from smokescale) so it would be to be expected some pet will bring alacricity in the future for the ranger or as an AOE. 

This does not go against the phylosophy behind the ranger design. 

Giving access to mechanics ranger usually doesn't have? Yes.

This does not mean permanent group alacrity, though. It is a powerful boon which other classes have dedicate their entire build for, now the suggestion is you should get group alacrity just for picking one pet? That is way too little investment.

I am not opposed adding a pet which gives alacrity in general. I am opposed to give a pet which provides an entire party with alacrity on it's own. These are 2 very different things.

And pets don't tend to be able to share a powerful boon all on their own. He mentions fury, but let's be honest, fury is neither even in the same ballpark in power as alacrity, nor is high fury uptime something special. Many classes can upkeep permanent fury with just a single trait.

To give an example of another powerful boon put on pets: Blue Moas can share protection with the party with Protecting Screech. It applies 4 seconds of protection on 24 seconds cooldown. It is not even remotely close to permanent protection uptime.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[anduriell.6280]

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Giving access to mechanics ranger usually has? Yes.

This does not mean permanent group alacrity, though.

That is a very fair point. Yes i do agree with your point there, bringing that boon if it follows current desing does not means high uptime at all.

Just access to the different effects so it can help the other builds in a matter or "jack of all trades master of none" or to be able to "fill the gaps"

 

I don't think Anet would never add a pet which could provide perma-anything. The only exception is Tiger i think and the boon is fury wich is a non issue because is a very common boon after all. 

 

[Kodama.6453]

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

That is a very fair point. Yes i do agree with your point there, bringing that boon if it follows current desing does not means high uptime at all.

Just access to the different effects so it can help the other builds in a matter or "jack of all trades master of none" or to be able to "fill the gaps"

 

I don't think Anet would never add a pet which could provide perma-anything. The only exception is Tiger i think and the boon is fury wich is a non issue because is a very common boon after all. 

 

That "jack of all trades" thing is also a fair point. As far as I know, ranger is currently the only class which has access to literally every single condition in the game (if we exclude the situational boon corrupt), thanks to pets giving them access to confusion, fear, torment, and other conditions which are not part of the standard kit of the ranger himself.

It gives generally access to these conditions, even ranger is still not able to stack them nearly as efficiently as other classes who specialise in these conditions.

I think the same should apply to boons. In the long run, pets should give rangers access to all the boons in the game (which therefore includes alacrity). Powerful boons like alacrity just shouldn't get uphold permanently on the party by the pet alone.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Wait, the forums wants to give Ranger alacrity? 🤣

The same forums that complain about how good Druid is at CC and immob, want the PET of all things to give alacrity? So that you get perma entangled if a ranger decides to run quick draw as well? 

Also on Druid all you have to do is swap / use the alacrity skill and then use WHaO to copy it back and forth, or even worse on SB just use it and merge and it will copy with Fresh Reinforcement.  So we're looking at nearly perma alacrity. 

The original point makes zero sense because ranger has fury access out the wazoo even without a tiger (literally who runs tiger?).  Like, try making a ranger build that DOESN'T yield fury in some way.  

So no, this definitely is not happening, and least of all from a pet who the devs have nerfed time and time again in every way possible as its 'unfair to lose to AI'.  

Edited October 14, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[anduriell.6280]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Wait, the forums wants to give Ranger alacrity? 🤣

The same forums that complain about how good Druid is at CC and immob, want the PET of all things to give alacrity? So that you get perma entangled if a ranger decides to run quick draw as well? 

Also on Druid all you have to do is swap / use the alacrity skill and then use WHaO to copy it back and forth, or even worse on SB just use it and merge and it will copy with Fresh Reinforcement.  So we're looking at nearly perma alacrity. 

The original point makes zero sense because ranger has fury access out the wazoo even without a tiger (literally who runs tiger?).  Like, try making a ranger build that DOESN'T yield fury in some way.  

So no, this definitely is not happening, and least of all from a pet who the devs have nerfed time and time again in every way possible as its 'unfair to lose to AI'.  

Everything you said is so wrong and so nosensical i can not fathom where to begin.

Do please at least read what the traits do in the wiki.

 

Most agreed a pet which provides some alacricity would be good for the game. It is something most expect to happen in EoD with the new pets if anet is taking seriously the support\bruiser role for the warden. Yes anet overly nerf pets but always on the offensive side and almost always on the damage numbers. Like they know pets are better in a support role.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Everything you said is so wrong and so nosensical i can not fathom where to begin.

Do please at least read what the traits do in the wiki.

 

Most agreed a pet which provides some alacricity would be good for the game. It is something most expect to happen in EoD with the new pets if anet is taking seriously the support\bruiser role for the warden. Yes anet overly nerf pets but always on the offensive side and almost always on the damage numbers. Like they know pets are better in a support role.

 

Alacrity - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Traits that grant alacrity

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/43/Ranger_tango_icon_20px.png https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/9/9b/Fortifying_Bond.png/25px-Fortifying_Bond.png Fortifying Bond (Nature Magic) — When you gain a boon, it is shared with your pet.
•  
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/7/7c/Soulbeast_tango_icon_20px.png https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/d/d1/Fresh_Reinforcement.png/25px-Fresh_Reinforcement.png Fresh Reinforcement (Soulbeast) — Entering beastmode grants you the boons affecting your pet.

Healing skills that grant alacrity

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/e/e3/%22We_Heal_As_One%21%22.png/33px-%22We_Heal_As_One%21%22.png "We Heal As One!" — Command

 

You wanna try that one again? 

For an example, the skills that do grant Alacrity usually grant it in 2-4s durations--we'll just stick to ranger at the moment and go with consume plasma from Forage, that gives 3s Alacrity every 30s. 

So at 100% boon duration, that's what 6 seconds of Alacrity every 30 seconds, then if you merge with the pet and use Fresh Reinforcement it adds 3 seconds, so 9 seconds of Alacrity every 30 seconds?

And this is on an existing pet, not some new pet we have no idea the timings of.  

Speaking to 'pets are better at support'...exactly what pets (that people use outside of PvE) offer that? From a WvW perspective, you have what...bird giving area swiftness? Because the other pets that are useable (Smokeskale, E. Wyvern, Gazelle, Iboga, etc.) all offer nothing in the way of group support (yes some put down fields, but I'd hardly call that support).  

If anything, we know pets are and have always been very good at CC (KD's, pulls, fears, stuns, etc. etc.), and last time I checked Alacrity is a boon.  So no, we don't all agree or know that pets are 'better in a support role'.  If they were, everyone would run Moa...when is the last time you seen someone with a Moa outside PvE?

Edited October 15, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

I still don’t think getting Alacrity from a pet would be a good idea. Even if we do get one I would lean it toward personal Alacrity rather than letting a sole pet suddenly provide a boon role for an entire class rather than a spec.

As someone did mention above, some Ranger pets did help expand some of their scope with different utilities / capabilities. Examples being Iboga giving access to Torment and Confusion or Smokescale giving more access to Stealth. These instances though are still just a fraction compared to what a class that actually uses those capabilities do. Mirage uses Confusion and Torment far more heavily than we do, and Thief has access to significantly more stealth than we do.

If we would truly get Alacrity as I am speculating, I still feel that it would be as a mechanic / ability unique to the new spec and would allow us to have a build suitable for that in content. I don’t see Ranger getting access to it baseline simply from having a new pet to use. If there were to be new pets though that allow Alacrity, I feel it would be more fitting to it not being nearly as significant as what other classes can do and be on a personal level, comparable to how Willbender has access to personal Alacrity.

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

......

You did not bother to read the traits right?
So as you very well said ranger has access to alacrity with consume plasma. That skill is on 24 seconds cooldown and provides 3s alacrity and still you don't see any Soulbeasts with perma-alacrity, Correct? 

Feel free to keep imagining imposible builds and share them like it is a thing in the game. 

 

1 hour ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

If we would truly get Alacrity as I am speculating, I still feel that it would be as a mechanic / ability unique to the new spec and would allow us to have a build suitable for that in content.

I am not sure that would be a good idea, Anet could give strong access to alacitry which i am not sure it is a good idea in a class so spammy as the ranger. On the other side if the elite mechanic provides a meaningless access to alacrity it would be better put over a pet. 

 

Quote

I don’t see Ranger getting access to it baseline simply from having a new pet to use. If there were to be new pets though that allow Alacrity, I feel it would be more fitting to it not being nearly as significant as what other classes can do and be on a personal level, comparable to how Willbender has access to personal Alacrity.

The siamoth already provides alacrity and the sky did not fall over our heads. Group alacrity by pet would not change any of that.  

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by anduriell.6280