Speculation: New Elite will give us Alacrity

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You did not bother to read the traits right?
So as you very well said ranger has access to alacrity with consume plasma. That skill is on 24 seconds cooldown and provides 3s alacrity and still you don't see any Soulbeasts with perma-alacrity, Correct? 

Feel free to keep imagining imposible builds and share them like it is a thing in the game. 

Consume Plasma is on a 1/3 roll with two stealth options, which is why currently it isn't a problem.  This has zero to do with a future pet that may provide such a boon on possibly a shorter cooldown or with group implications.  

Anyway, since you aren't following the original discussion and seem to be confused on my 'perma alacrity' speculation, the original point was comparing alacrity to fury:

On 10/12/2021 at 10:28 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

There is a pet that provide perma fury with 0 investment (the tiger), why not alacrity? Everything is possible with GW2 devs even the most ridiculous things.

Which you defended:

On 10/14/2021 at 3:10 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

In defense of Dadnir point, the pets were designed to bring utility to the ranger otherwise not available to the class (fear from wolf or smokefield from smokescale) so it would be to be expected some pet will bring alacricity in the future for the ranger or as an AOE. 

This does not go against the phylosophy behind the ranger design. 

That is, you mentioned "it would be to be expected some pet will bring alacricity in the future for the ranger or as an AOE", then you later acted like you knew Ranger had alacrity access this whole time after I brought up Siamoth.

So you may want to read up on traits / what pets do what for ranger. 

Essentially, my whole first post you quoted and misunderstood was dispelling that alacrity should be as available as fury to a ranger, it's a ridiculous comparison.  

Edited October 15, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[anduriell.6280]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Consume Plasma is on a 1/3 roll with two stealth options, which is why currently it isn't a problem.  This has zero to do with a future pet that may provide such a boon on possibly a shorter cooldown or with group implications.  

Anyway, since you aren't following the original discussion and seem to be confused on my 'perma alacrity' speculation, the original point was comparing alacrity to fury:

Which you defended:

That is, you mentioned "it would be to be expected some pet will bring alacricity in the future for the ranger or as an AOE", then you later acted like you knew Ranger had alacrity access this whole time after I brought up Siamoth.

So you may want to read up on traits / what pets do what for ranger. 

Essentially, my whole first post you quoted and misunderstood was dispelling that alacrity should be as available as fury to a ranger, it's a ridiculous comparison.  

Dude just stop trolling and derrailing the thread with your dribble. You are bringing  nothing of worth to this conversation. 
 

For the moment there is no AoE alacrity or a pet that provides specificaly Alaycrity. It is expected of the ranger to get a pet at some point which will  provide that specific effect for the ranger or an AoE for team support.
It is part of the ranger design to have access to all the conditions and boons in the game thru  the pet skillsets and that is simply because there is so much variety you can do with the pest. It comes to the point where pests like the sand lion have 0 use because they do not offer anything over other pests.   

I would as far as to say that it is possible for Anet to decide to grant  that boon to Druid and  instead might in grace of the land to provide short alacrity to allies as means to boost the elite without actually changing any mechanics. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by anduriell.6280
gramma and corrections so the comment makes some sense.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Dude just stop trolling and derrailing the thread with your dribble. You are bringing  nothing of worth to this conversation. 
 

For the moment there is no AoE alacrity or a pet that provides specificaly Alaycrity. It is expected of the ranger to get a pet at some point which will  provide that specific effect for the ranger or an AoE for team support.
It is part of the ranger design to have access to all the conditions and boons in the game thru  the pet skillsets and that is simply because there is so much variety you can do with the pest. It comes to the point where pests like the sand lion have 0 use because they do not offer anything over other pests.   

I would as far as to say that it is possible for Anet to decide to grant  that boon to Druid and  instead might in grace of the land to provide short alacrity to allies as means to boost the elite without actually changing any mechanics. 

 

You keep throwing ad hominem's at me without proving anything....

Firstly, I don't know where you got that it is part of Ranger to have access to all boons--outside of the extreme edge case of consume plasma, another off the top of my head we don't have access to is Aegis.  Anet said they are 'breaking the rules' with the next elite...why not give Ranger Aegis access? 

Secondly, even the OP stated they do not think it would be wise for Alacrity to come from the pet, so it isn't just me 'trolling' here.  

Edited October 15, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[HotHit.6783]

48 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

You keep throwing ad hominem's at me without proving anything....

Firstly, I don't know where you got that it is part of Ranger to have access to all boons--outside of the extreme edge case of consume plasma, another off the top of my head we don't have access to is Aegis.  Anet said they are 'breaking the rules' with the next elite...why not give Ranger Aegis access? 

Secondly, even the OP stated they do not think it would be wise for Alacrity to come from the pet, so it isn't just me 'trolling' here.  

There is no Ad Hominem. Your arguments are being disputed with reasoning, rather than... I dunno your WvW playtime or your PvP rank. It's just that your disrespect is being mirrored back to you. The fallacy is that Anduriell's reasoning is assuming a group consensus, when pretty much everyone in the topic here provided a different take. But then, you opened with the exact same fallacy, lumping everyone together as "the forums wants to give Ranger alacrity? 🤣". 

Personally, I think a pet providing some group Alacrity would be fine. The boon is apparently fine to have at ~32% uptime as one of Renegade's 3 profession buttons, ~51% on 10 targets when traited and 100% uptime with 77% boon duration on top of that. If it were an F2 skill, Soulbeast can't abuse it and a Ranger could only get 16% boon duration from the minor in Nature Magic (8% in PvP) and 20% recharge reduction from the minor in Beastmastery, as well as slightly more uptime from fortifying bond which would be affected by their boon duration. Everything else is just copying or extending the boon, which isn't relevant for high end PvE, has no meta relevance in group PvP/WvW zerging and isn't likely to break duels/2v2 PvP/WvW roaming. Say it gave 5 seconds normally on a 30 second cooldown, that's 17.8% uptime normally or 26.7% uptime in PvE with all the traits. 10 seconds? It extends to 57.3% at most. It would have to be something absurd like 16 second alacrity on a 25 second recharge to maintain permanent uptime on the group. But a small effect like I mentioned for some uptime would be a good option to aid a squad with only one Alacrity generator.
 

Same with a pet giving Aegis. We're going to the Jade Sea. A Crab that enters a blocking stance to rapidly pulse short duration Aegis in a small area would probably be fun for PvP. Assuming it were the Beast skill, it would probably be hella toxic as a basic skill that Soulbeasts could duplicate and dump out on demand if the AI opens with it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

25 minutes ago, HotHit.6783 said:

There is no Ad Hominem. Your arguments are being disputed with reasoning, rather than... I dunno your WvW playtime or your PvP rank. It's just that your disrespect is being mirrored back to you. The fallacy is that Anduriell's reasoning is assuming a group consensus, when pretty much everyone in the topic here provided a different take. But then, you opened with the exact same fallacy, lumping everyone together as "the forums wants to give Ranger alacrity? 🤣".

The 'ad hominem' I refer to wasn't lumping people together, it was specifically this:

16 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Everything you said is so wrong and so nosensical i can not fathom where to begin.

Do please at least read what the traits do in the wiki.

When no, the points are neither wrong or nonsensical, because we are still debating them.

As for the 'The boon is apparently fine to have at ~32% uptime as one of Renegade's 3 profession buttons...' points, I don't want to repeat the 'every class is different, so comparing across them doesn't yield much', but that's kind of what it is here.  

As I mentioned before, Alacrity has interplay with quickdraw and ranger is known to have high uptime on selfish boons, and at a huge range.  So opening it up to something like 1500 range rapid fires with alacrity on a sic em' build seems as if it'd get nerfed very, very fast.  

Again, I think the reason we don't hear complaints with getting it off Siamoth now is that the roll prevents any consistency in this area...you may be able to burst with it but often you are just going to get feathers.  

In addition with the boon duration discussion, I think you may be forgetting:

Moa Stance - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Which additive with Nature Magic is 28% increase on boon duration in PvP / WvW.  Considering Celestial exists and it's easy to get to ~50% boon duration without anything, that's 78% right there.  It would stand to reason this pet would be versatile type (both because it provides a boon and should use prelude lash if we're making it work with hammer); if it is, that's another 15% boon duration when you merge, nearly capping you.   

Edited October 15, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[draxynnic.3719]

I was about to say that a bit of group alacrity from the pet wouldn't be unreasonable as long as they couldn't 100% it from the pet alone, but then I realised that even that presented a problem:

 

Do people recall when the most efficient build for nearly every raid boss was stacking Guardians or Mesmers for DPS, and how ArenaNet responded?

 

What allowed this to happen is that the DPS roles could use Feel My Wrath and Time Warp respectively to achieve full Quickness uptime without anyone having to dedicate much more than the elite slot to it (and neither relies much on their elite slot for damage), which allowed the team to do away with needing a dedicated quickness aplication role. This was brought into line by nerfing the elites in question.

 

Alacrity coming from a pet could raise the same issue, allowing for team builds to do away with the dedicated alacrity provider if they just stacked DPS rangers. To avoid this, it would need to be tuned so that stacking rangers would still keep the group alacrity below a certain uptime. Unless one of them IS a ranger equivalent to alacren or alacmirage.

[HotHit.6783]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

In addition with the boon duration discussion, I think you may be forgetting:

Moa Stance - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Which additive with Nature Magic is 28% increase on boon duration in PvP / WvW.  Considering Celestial exists and it's easy to get to ~50% boon duration without anything, that's 78% right there.  It would stand to reason this pet would be versatile type (both because it provides a boon and should use prelude lash if we're making it work with hammer); if it is, that's another 15% boon duration when you merge, nearly capping you.   

I wasn't forgetting, that's just not applicable. Unless the Beast skill is bugged like Fern Hound's Regenerate has been since launch, then Moa Stance can't apply. If it were a basic pet skill, then a Soulbeast could use it while merged and use their own stats.

Edit: Celestial amulets (and concentration amulets) don't exist in PvP. The most you could get is 12.33% from rune of leadership.

Edited October 16, 2021 by HotHit.6783

[anduriell.6280]

On 10/16/2021 at 1:26 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Alacrity coming from a pet could raise the same issue, allowing for team builds to do away with the dedicated alacrity provider if they just stacked DPS rangers. To avoid this, it would need to be tuned so that stacking rangers would still keep the group alacrity below a certain uptime. Unless one of them IS a ranger equivalent to alacren or alacmirage.

Read the answer from HotHit which is pretty spot on. 

On 10/15/2021 at 7:47 PM, HotHit.6783 said:

It would have to be something absurd like 16 second alacrity on a 25 second recharge to maintain permanent uptime on the group. But a small effect like I mentioned for some uptime would be a good option to aid a squad with only one Alacrity generator.

 

Quote

Same with a pet giving Aegis. We're going to the Jade Sea. A Crab that enters a blocking stance to rapidly pulse short duration Aegis in a small area would probably be fun for PvP. Assuming it were the Beast skill, it would probably be hella toxic as a basic skill that Soulbeasts could duplicate and dump out on demand if the AI opens with it.

I do agree with your point, I think i missunderstood you "pulsing Aegis", with that you mean i provides aegis once to allies around Right? 

 

On 10/15/2021 at 7:47 PM, HotHit.6783 said:

The fallacy is that Anduriell's reasoning is assuming a group consensus, when pretty much everyone in the topic here provided a different take. But then, you opened with the exact same fallacy, lumping everyone together as "the forums wants to give Ranger alacrity? 🤣". 

You are right, I was just trying expose to Gotejjeken the fallacy and ignorance of his/her/they own argument.

 

In any case, it always deppends in the numbers, as Kodama and i were agreed upon as long as the F2 keeps current pet design with short boons  there should not be any problem in PvP  or WvW. 

 

A 3s Alacrity in a 20s skill or a 5s in a 30s skill would not magically create perma-alacrity rangers. Current consume plasma can't bounce that forever. 

Boons are limited to a 100% duration cap, it does not matter how much it is extended. Which means at most and in the best case the ranger would get a 1/3 of combat with alacrity. Even bouncing with with Fresh reinforcement and WHaO it would be just 1/2 of combat. And that sacrifying the heal skill just to copy the boons. 

Unless something changed in some previous patch Fortifying bond does not copy the boons into the pet when unmerging so that trait is of no effect here. 

 

As i said i would expect Anet at some point to bring Alacrity and the missing boons to some pets F2. It is an strong reason for rangers upgrade to the new expansion and there is  also the limitation of how a pet can be designed if there are no addtional effects or boon access. I already gave you an example with the sand Lion.
And there should not be any problem with it as long as the devs keep current pets F2 philosophy. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[HotHit.6783]

Actually, I think Draxynnic's concern was very legitimate. Players will jump at the chance to minimize variables and play the easiest thing. Our first PvE meta was just to stack warriors with one Mesmer in the Citadel of Flame after all. While I don't think Nature Magic + Beastmastery + a specific pet out permanently is a small cost it could be quite abusable en-masse.

Let's assume it's a 3 second Alacrity on a 20 second cooldown to 5 players, it looks weak on its own. However, Lingering Magic extends that to 3.48 seconds, Fortifying Bond copies that alacrity (with incidentally the same duration) to the pet reducing its own cooldown by 20% and Pack Alpha cuts off another 20%. It's effectively multiplicative, so the final cooldown is 64% of the original, not 60% (if I'm wrong and it's additive, that's even more breakable). The 5 Rangers are giving 17.4 seconds of Alacrity on a 12.8 second cooldown, 4 Rangers could retain permanent uptime and one would still be able to afford dropping Beastmastery for Skirmishing. Then you have one flex slot in each subgroup for, say, a Warrior and a Mesmer/Firebrand. If you have 5 rangers? You could drop Beastmastery from everyone's build.

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I do agree with your point, I think i missunderstood you "pulsing Aegis", with that you mean i provides aegis once to allies around Right? 

I mean multiple times. I imagine a 1.5 second block that pulses 1/2 second aegis 3 times over the duration in a 240 radius, but that's by no means balanced numbers.

Edited October 17, 2021 by HotHit.6783

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, HotHit.6783 said:

Actually, I think Draxynnic's concern was very legitimate. Players will jump at the chance to minimize variables and play the easiest thing. Our first PvE meta was just to stack warriors with one Mesmer in the Citadel of Flame after all. While I don't think Nature Magic + Beastmastery + a specific pet out permanently is a small cost it could be quite abusable en-masse.

Let's assume it's a 3 second Alacrity on a 20 second cooldown to 5 players, it looks weak on its own. However, Lingering Magic extends that to 3.48 seconds, Fortifying Bond copies that alacrity (with incidentally the same duration) to the pet reducing its own cooldown by 20% and Pack Alpha cuts off another 20%. It's effectively multiplicative, so the final cooldown is 64% of the original, not 60% (if I'm wrong and it's additive, that's even more breakable). The 5 Rangers are giving 17.4 seconds of Alacrity on a 12.8 second cooldown, 4 Rangers could retain permanent uptime and one would still be able to afford dropping Beastmastery for Skirmishing. Then you have one flex slot in each subgroup for, say, a Warrior and a Mesmer/Firebrand. If you have 5 rangers? You could drop Beastmastery from everyone's build.

But then if we take into account multiple players any amount of boon application could lead to the same results. That should not be used to balance the game as it would require too many variables to even be possible to do it properly. Also you are asking for 5 rangers in your comp replacing other classes which should bring other needed utilities.  You could reduce the boon duration to 1 second and still with enough rangers doing acrobatics could get the 100% uptime.

Keep in mind Anet already has provided tools to add more Soulbeasts to your comps changing the stances to they would stack duration. I think that is a pretty clear message interactions are encouraged. 

 

Quote

I mean multiple times. I imagine a 1.5 second block that pulses 1/2 second aegis 3 times over the duration in a 240 radius, but that's by no means balanced numbers.

That  should not be the case. Pulsing boons is a very difficult task to balance, there are too many factors in place to be able to balance it properly. And i think such an strong boons like Alacrity, Aegis, Quickness or stability should never become as pulsing boons unless the rest of the mechanic is designed to balance that. 

 

But i get what you are asking for. Instead Aegis the crab thing could apply a short buff for damage reduction similar to  the Rite of the Great Dwarf so it accumulates with protection. That could work and it would not be so oppresive. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:05 PM, HotHit.6783 said:

I wasn't forgetting, that's just not applicable. Unless the Beast skill is bugged like Fern Hound's Regenerate has been since launch, then Moa Stance can't apply. If it were a basic pet skill, then a Soulbeast could use it while merged and use their own stats.

Edit: Celestial amulets (and concentration amulets) don't exist in PvP. The most you could get is 12.33% from rune of leadership.

 

Sure, Moa Stance isn't applicable if it is an F2 on a pet, but everything else is...including fresh reinforcement and boon duration concerns.  Also no answers or discussions around quick draw builds with this.

Anyway, I wouldn't consider an F2 on a pet worthwhile at all since none of the other ones we have are.  Again, who uses pet F2s now to buff? No one.  Otherwise Moas would run rampant like this were a Final Fantasy game.  

Essentially buff F2's would need to be instant to be worth anything, as of now the cast animations make them utterly worthless.  Acting like they aren't, or the current state of things is the way to get people to buy the expansion because your pet can apply a couple seconds of alacrity to any bots standing near it when its done, is kinda asinine.    

The concern is obviously the same concern ranger has always had...the selfish implications.  For an easy example, druid healing was nerfed because the druid could never die if built right.  It wasn't nerfed because it was too powerful of a heal (other than to make way for the better PoF healers), it was always complained about because unkillible druids could hold points or troll things.  

This is no different.  Would be far too easy to abuse alacrity to break any of the already egregious builds ranger has, especially if it is guaranteed and not a roll like on Siamoth.  Add in the potential tank nature of the new hammer spec, and their will be complains like no tomorrow on these forums.  

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[anduriell.6280]

34 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Anyway, I wouldn't consider an F2 on a pet worthwhile at all since none of the other ones we have are.  Again, who uses pet F2s now to buff? No one.  Otherwise Moas would run rampant like this were a Final Fantasy game.  

Essentially buff F2's would need to be instant to be worth anything, as of now the cast animations make them utterly worthless. 

 

This point is the only one interesting which doesn't show how little you know about the class. Tiger is being used because of the fury boon application. You decide why is that important. 

Moas aren't used because the pet itself is enraging. An AoE heal where basically the friendlies has to stay on top of the pet, no close-gaps so the pet never connects with anything. 

 

The F2 boons applications are usually instant, it get's applied as soon as the pet starts the animation. I think Fern Hound is the same with the regeneration. 

 

Siamoth is a 1/3 roll although you would be surprised how many times the plasma comes out. It is not strange to get that 3 times in a row. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

This point is the only one interesting which doesn't show how little you know about the class. Tiger is being used because of the fury boon application. You decide why is that important. 

Moas aren't used because the pet itself is enraging. An AoE heal where basically the friendlies has to stay on top of the pet, no close-gaps so the pet never connects with anything. 

 

The F2 boons applications are usually instant, it get's applied as soon as the pet starts the animation. I think Fern Hound is the same with the regeneration. 

 

Siamoth is a 1/3 roll although you would be surprised how many times the plasma comes out. It is not strange to get that 3 times in a row. 

 

Please, show me a vid of Plasma three times in a row.  I'm not surprised at anything because I often run Siamoth in WvW on boon builds because all the rolls are helpful, not just plasma.  If there's one thing I do know it is Plasma is not consistent in the least.  

 

I still don't know where Tiger is being used...PvE? Even if it is, where? I've looked on Snow Crows and I even see a build with Red Moa (which is shocking to me, but if its optimized in raids great), but nothing with Tiger.  

 

Think your 'moa's are engraging' point is the most telling though, and true.  All pets are.  Which is why no one is going to be buying an expansion or replacing classes in any composition if a pet brings Alacrity, because everyone hates pets.  At most, rangers will use it to do as a said before, create selfish builds and cause forum complaining.  

[HotHit.6783]

48 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Please, show me a vid of Plasma three times in a row.  I'm not surprised at anything because I often run Siamoth in WvW on boon builds because all the rolls are helpful, not just plasma.  If there's one thing I do know it is Plasma is not consistent in the least.

You have it backwards. If it's perfectly random, then rolling above a 14 or higher on a D20 3 times in a row is absolutely going to happen sometimes. If it's consistent, then there's hidden mechanics to the random generation that mitigates true randomness.

48 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Think your 'moa's are engraging' point is the most telling though, and true.  All pets are.  Which is why no one is going to be buying an expansion or replacing classes in any composition if a pet brings Alacrity, because everyone hates pets.  At most, rangers will use it to do as a said before, create selfish builds and cause forum complaining.  

I hate that balance (Druid) and design (Soulbeast) keeps pushing the pet away. I am annoyed with how it operates with aggro in PvE. I don't hate the pet and assuming I'm the only person playing this game with that opinion is a tall order. You're making a hasty generalisation again or calling yourself everyone.

Edited October 18, 2021 by HotHit.6783
Had my d20 example backwards

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, HotHit.6783 said:

You have it backwards. If it's perfectly random, then rolling above a 14 or higher on a D20 3 times in a row is absolutely going to happen sometimes. If it's consistent, then there's hidden mechanics to the random generation that mitigates true randomness.

 

I hate that balance (Druid) and design (Soulbeast) keeps pushing the pet away. I am annoyed with how it operates with aggro in PvE. I don't hate the pet and assuming I'm the only person playing this game with that opinion is a tall order. You're making a hasty generalisation again or calling yourself everyone.

 

How do I have this backwards? I said it is NOT consistent in the least, as in there is no special weighting--it is indeed random.  It is this randomness that makes getting all boons fine, because if it were consistent that would be rather broken.  

 

For the second point, I always thought forum posts are implied as in the opinion of the poster (without me blatantly stating 'in my opinion' for everything I post).  I will say (again in my opinion) that there is not a single person that looks at pet behavior or pathing in any game mode and goes 'wow this is great, I wouldn't change a thing'.  So that's why I said 'everyone hates pets' because even in your counter-point mention aggro; aggro problems are not just in PvE, they are one of the worst things surrounding pets in any game mode.  

 

I guess for me Druid is what really broke the notion of ranger ever having a dedicated support role in groups.  If Druid was to be true support it would have had some Alacrity access when it was introduced--however it did not get any--and when PoF came out Alacrity was given to Renegades instead of Soulbeasts.  In addition, with the release of PoF Druid was altered to be only useful in niche group instances, but mostly to be useful with selfish builds (immob based). 

 

Anyway, all this is just me looking at it from a single ranger--I know there was mention of the additive power of rangers in this very thread.  All I can do is think back to spirit rangers in GW1 and what PvP looked like for a while before that was limited.  Boon share with rangers is tenuous because of the pet--it would not surprise me to see 3-4 ranger groups just spamming alacrity in a mobile fashion with the pet.  I personally hate this happened with quickness and superspeed thanks to scrapper...I guess I am vehemently opposed to an even more powerful boon being thrown around in a wonton manner.  

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, HotHit.6783 said:

I hate that balance (Druid) and design (Soulbeast) keeps pushing the pet away. I am annoyed with how it operates with aggro in PvE. I don't hate the pet and assuming I'm the only person playing this game with that opinion is a tall order. You're making a hasty generalisation again or calling yourself everyone.

Yes that is very good point you are bringing up HotHit. Pets are being pushed away i think probably you feel annoyed is because you feel the ranger profession hasn't got a real pet mechanic yet. 

All i am suggesting is all our efforts about better pets should not be about asking for a new elite with pets 2.0 but to ask Anet to complete/fix the ranger companion mechanic. 

If you could have your beastmaster with core (as it is supposed to be because the ranger has all it's mechanics focused onto the pet) probably  you wouldn't be asking or even bothered if all the next specializations would move away from that design. 

Thus i would recommend for a rework for core. So new and old players they all can enjoy an actual pet class. 

About alacricity, i am pretty confident we will get some pet with AoE support, the same as other pets with more supportish/deffensive skillset instead the DPS focus they have been having in the last expansions and proven problematic. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[anduriell.6280]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Please, show me a vid of Plasma three times in a row. 

There you go at 4th try. Actually this time rolled a 4th plasma (not recorded). The rest 2 plasmas in a row where pretty consinstent, something to be expected if the results are completely random. This video is from few moments ago. 
Yet you don't see perma-alacitry rangers everywhere.  Your hate is unfounded. 

 

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I still don't know where Tiger is being used...PvE? Even if it is, where? I've looked on Snow Crows and I even see a build with Red Moa (which is shocking to me, but if its optimized in raids great), but nothing with Tiger.  

Tiger is used in PvP by rangers who know how to use the pet . I could tell you why but i would preffer you to check it out on your own. I promise you it will be fun. 

 

Quote

Think your 'moa's are engraging' point is the most telling though, and true.  All pets are.  Which is why no one is going to be buying an expansion or replacing classes in any composition if a pet brings Alacrity, because everyone hates pets.  At most, rangers will use it to do as a said before, create selfish builds and cause forum complaining.  

Some pets are really annoying to manage as ranger because how clunky they feel. Others no so much. The ones that aren't annoying got super nerfed (smokescale, bristleback...) because they would stick to target wich is an issue for PvP players.
Sadly those nerfs always  pour out to other gamemodes like WvW or PvE totally destroying the pet. Not that would be needed in most of cases for PvP either. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

There you go at 4th try. Actually this time rolled a 4th plasma (not recorded). The rest 2 plasmas in a row where pretty consinstent, something to be expected if the results are completely random. This video is from few moments ago. 
Yet you don't see perma-alacitry rangers everywhere.  Your hate is unfounded. 

 

 

First, thanks for the actual vid experiment...most usually won't go through with actually recording footage to back up a point.  

Anyway, I wouldn't say my hate is completely unfounded, it as did take four tries on something random; the point was it could have happened on the first or could have taken more than four tries.  

We have no metric for consistency because we're arguing over a random roll that grants all boons, with alacrity just coming along with that.  

I'd say the reason more people don't complain about Siamoth is the jarring nature of having to pick the item up once it drops...no easy feat in the middle of a battle (and nearly impossible in WvW in fights with over a few people).  If the item effect was granted automatically, I think you'd see more people use it, as Siamoth knockdown and other skills are actually pretty good.  

My point being, the only reference for alacrity on ranger right now is a random roll that you have to pick up once it spawns (or the enemy can get it).  That...doesn't seem like a stable reference point by any stretch of the imagination.  Since there are numerous other pets and none yet provide it, I would wager this is intentional.

But, I guess we'll see in a day or two once the new spec gets revealed.  

Edited October 19, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[HotHit.6783]

17 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

How do I have this backwards? I said it is NOT consistent in the least, as in there is no special weighting--it is indeed random.  It is this randomness that makes getting all boons fine, because if it were consistent that would be rather broken.

Yes. Your original explanation for why it couldn't happen three times in a row is extremely flawed. You said that it was not consistent, so it couldn't roll a given outcome. You asked for a video showing that a result could happen. I'm not a streamer though, just a nuclear physicist. If it were perfectly random approximately ~3.7% of any given trio of rolls would all be plasma and for any given roll there should be an ~11.1% chance that your following two rolls will be the same.

Your original claim was that those probabilities are 0%, which actually implies the skill has a function improving consistency. Something is consistent if you can predict the outcome. If rolling plasma twice meant your third roll could not be plasma it would be a predictable, consistent outcome. But it is not, it is random and the chance of the 3rd or 1152nd roll being plasma is 33.3%

[Obtena.7952]

I don't see a reason why they wouldn't add a pet to give alacrity. That's the whole point of many pets that exist. To me, the question isn't IF they get it, it's how effective it would be if they did. Personally, I don't think infrequent, short duration alacrity applications are all that useful ... but I'm sure it will appeal to some people. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

14 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

We have no metric for consistency because we're arguing over a random roll that grants all boons, with alacrity just coming along with that.  

Wait, what? We absolutely have a metric for consistency and it's supported by the mathematics of statistics! There is some really important points being made here and no one should be dismissing them because 'no metric' when one can actually predict the frequency of these events. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, HotHit.6783 said:

Yes. Your original explanation for why it couldn't happen three times in a row is extremely flawed. You said that it was not consistent, so it couldn't roll a given outcome. You asked for a video showing that a result could happen. I'm not a streamer though, just a nuclear physicist. If it were perfectly random approximately ~3.7% of any given trio of rolls would all be plasma and for any given roll there should be an ~11.1% chance that your following two rolls will be the same.

Your original claim was that those probabilities are 0%, which actually implies the skill has a function improving consistency. Something is consistent if you can predict the outcome. If rolling plasma twice meant your third roll could not be plasma it would be a predictable, consistent outcome. But it is not, it is random and the chance of the 3rd or 1152nd roll being plasma is 33.3%

 

Where are you getting any of this from?

Firstly, I asked for a video as most on this sub-forum are just forum warriors that either don't play the class or only stick to PvE (you possibly being one as you keep mentioning competitive and streamers in derogatory ways).  

Secondly, 'Not consistent' does not mean 'cannot happen'; not sure if there is a language barrier here or what?

Also a ~3% roll on all being plasma is not something to bank on, not even in PvE...so not sure why you are intent on hammering that point home 😂.

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Wait, what? We absolutely have a metric for consistency and it's supported by the mathematics of statistics! There is some really important points being made here and no one should be dismissing them because 'no metric' when one can actually predict the frequency of these events. 

Thank you for trolling this topic, I've missed our interactions.  

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I've missed our interactions.

I'm sure you haven't because most of the time, it's me having to correct you. 

Claiming there is no metric for consistency of events like getting a boon is inaccurate and wrong, and even worse if you are going to use that as a premise to establish the idea that it's unreasonable that Rangers get an Alacrity-sharing pet or argue/dismiss other people's points.  

Considering the number of pets we have and the various boons they share and the high probability we get new pets in EoD, it's actually VERY reasonable we might see a pet with Alacrity. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm sure you haven't because most of the time, it's me having to correct you. 

Claiming there is no metric for consistency of events like getting a boon is inaccurate and wrong, and even worse if you are going to use that as a premise to establish the idea that it's unreasonable that Rangers get an Alacrity-sharing pet or argue/dismiss other people's points.  

Considering the number of pets we have and the various boons they share and the high probability we get new pets in EoD, it's actually VERY reasonable we might see a pet with Alacrity. 

 

You should look up the definition of random, or tell all of us how to consistently get plasma.  I'm sure if you can do the latter then Siamoth would definitely be in the meta somewhere.  

 

We went two expansions with no pets giving Alacrity, so who knows.  If by some miracle it does happen, I'd put that under the 'running out of ideas' column as Alacrity has been a thing for 6 years now and I don't recall many topics asking for it until this brainstorming topic we're posting in.  

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

You should look up the definition of random, or tell all of us how to consistently get plasma.  I'm sure if you can do the latter then Siamoth would definitely be in the meta somewhere.  

I will do neither as it has nothing to do with the discussion.

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

We went two expansions with no pets giving Alacrity, so who knows.  

Exactly ... so who knows. No one. Therefore, there isn't a reason to be so dismissive of the idea we could get it, especially based on the facts we have. Considering the number of pets we have and the various boons they share and the high probability we get new pets in EoD, it's actually VERY reasonable we might see a pet with Alacrity.