This game isn't very new player friendly.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

21 hours ago, jeyaredubs.9348 said:

I've played GW2 a long while, but I have to admit I do prefer FFXIV and play that more religiously as of the past few years. I decided to bring my significant other over to GW2 to fill some time before the next XIV expansion came out, and I noticed a few troubling things I suppose.

 

The story is completely disjointed and the fact you have to pay for chapters in order to know wtf is going on is ridiculous business practice. As of now, if you complete the main storyline you go from dealing with Destinys Edge to suddenly working with a group of people that you don't know, to dealing with a threat that you don't know a lot about or have a vested interest in because you're locked from playing those chapters unless you pay for them. (I know who they are because I was playing when those chapters went live, but I spent the better part of a day trying to summarize who they were to my boyfriend who is completely brand new).

 

Through the whole of the leveling and questing experience in base game, he was asking me when he would get his glider and mounts, and all I could say was that he'd get them in the later parts of the game. I told him we could do that part now and do a disjointed story and be confused about wtf is going on and ruin HoT by skipping to PoF, but he decided we should stick to doing it the way it was intended (even going so far as to buy the chapters we needed so we could find out what was going on)

 

When we got to HoT, we were pretty bummed to find it mostly empty. I remembered that you do need some mastery points in Maguuma masteries in order to successfully get through the story, but trying to join a group and train to do those was proving to be an infuriating task due to the fact that the groups would take off on their mounts and be across the map in seemingly seconds while we straggled behind. Now I personally do have a few mounts, but my boyfriend only had his dingy first tier glider and so I stayed with him the entire way and his frustration was very real. We attempted to form our own group, twice actually, but it was to no avail.

 

Eventually we just decided to hang up our coat and I apologized for the awkward storytelling and gameplay mechanics, but I just thought maybe this should go up in the hopes that maybe Arena Net would see it and decide to make it friendlier for people.

You have a few good points but also misconceptions.

 

My main complaint is the lack of LWS1 as replayable content, and I feel this is what hurts new player uptake the most.

 

Your complaint that the Living World expansions costing money is false, as a veteran player you should know that you can do 30g/hr farms (20g/hr even in the venerable Silverwastes), and that getting this content for a friend using only in-game gold takes less than a week of mostly casual effort. It may seem like alot to you, but players literally do this all day long, every day so that's the kind of player that the devs have to target.

 

Guilds can do this kind of thing in a matter of hours, and this game is guild-based. If you two weren't in a guild that was helping you out every step of the way, then you weren't getting the full game experience.

 

The tl;dr here is, you're supposed to actually play the game itself, not just the story. Players who juts want to jump into the story and play it all the way to the end have their wallets, just like all convenience items.

 

As for Heart of Thorns, the groups you see on LFG are trains mostly meant for experienced players gearing up alts, they're not for new players because the reality is most new players never step foot in HoT. The devs spoke at one time how the majority of the players, when they start playing, just jump right into the latest Living World season or expansion and never go back to past content, and that's one of the reasons they use the approach they do.

 

In fact they had to introduce a bunch of collections just so old content wouldn't be "wasted".

 

Again, in this case having a guild is key. Unlike open-world randoms and LFG'ers, a guild will understand your plight and to their best to help you out along the way without leaving you behind, etc. Its also helpful to play with a Mesmer or Thief, who can portal your friends to locations that can only be reached through masteries.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Kalocin.5982]

They should just bake in LS2 and eat the cost and add an option to buy S3+ when you buy HoT/PoF and make it obvious you need it. Either that or make the old content free after a couple years. I can't imagine they make hand over fist for these episode releases, especially when it's a barrier to entry for new players. This probably will become a really big issue when LS comes out after EoD.

Even WoW doesn't make you buy old content, and they intentionally revamped the leveling experience so there was less barrier to entry. It's actually quite a huge thing because most players won't consider putting down the hard cash if they're being asked too much before they even play. By next year you'll need to buy LS2-5 episodes and three expansions to fully understand the characters and stories. That's a bit of a hard ask imo.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Kalocin.5982

[OriOri.8724]

22 hours ago, jeyaredubs.9348 said:

Before I leave this topic, since it's clearly mostly falling on deaf ears. It sounds more to me like there are veteran players here who believe that they have some sort of grandiosity because they were active when the living stories came out, and everyone else should have to suffer and dish out money because of that. You were not paying a subscription when you were playing then, and you're not paying one now. You were simply playing the game. 

 

You bought the expansions just like new players did, and because you were playing actively, you got access to it.

 

So why then, should new and returning players be punished for spending the same amount of money as you all, but because they were not there when it was active, they must spend extra for it? Are they being punished because they didn't buy a hair kit here or there during that time like some of you did?

 

The self-perceived high horse of superiority that several of you have rode in on is telling of the game's community and have precisely proved my point about how unfriendly this game is to new players. 

 

Since some of you seem to enjoy also putting words into my mouth, I am not claiming to want these 'living stories' for free, I believe that they should be bundled with the expansion that you purchase. 

 

Locking the story that you all did not have to pay for behind a pay wall because new and returning players were simply not there, is not good for player retention and I have seen it first hand and there are others in here that have agreed and given good reason as to why.

Get off your high horse dude. And stop making assumptions about who purchased story chapters and who got them for free. Personally, I just recently came back from a ~3 year break from the game, and had to buy half of LWS4 and all of icebrood saga.

 

Plus, new players do not spend the same amount of money to get both expansions as players that were playing when they dropped, since purchasing PoF gives your HoT for free now. Is it a lot of money to purchase all of the LW story episodes at once? Yes, it is a lot of money. But that doesn't mean its unreasonable for ANet to ask you to do that.

 

Each LW episode takes months for ANet to make. Back in LWS3 I think it was something like 6 months of development went into each episode (there were multiple teams working on different episodes in order to keep them coming out much faster than that, but pretty sure the time for each episode was around 6 months). And if you weren't playing when it was released ANet only asks you to pay $2.50 for that episode later. And if you buy an entire season you get another discount on top of that.

[Arnedillo.2456]

Holy, I love Guild Wars 2 but I don't get how you all can say that you see no problem with it. 

 

Living Stories are a horrible thing for new players, and that's a fact. If i join a new MMO and its best part is the story, there is no kittening way I pay for 2 Expansions and 3 Living Worlds and Icebrood to play the content. Its just to much money. No new player friendly at all, and your only option is to play the story disjointed, wich isn't friendly to new players either. Remember, story is one of the strongest points for new players.

 

I also understand that they can't give it for free to everyone, because they need to make money. But man, make a pass that doesnt cost you 50$ and unlocks all the living worlds. Or at least, if I buy the expansion give me a 50% voucher for all the living world that the expansion has. Still not friendly, but better than nothing.

 

Again, I've been enjoying this game for 9 years.  But I am not blind.

[ASP.8093]

2 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Your complaint that the Living World expansions costing money is false, as a veteran player you should know that you can do 30g/hr farms (20g/hr even in the venerable Silverwastes), and that getting this content for a friend using only in-game gold takes less than a week of mostly casual effort. It may seem like alot to you, but players literally do this all day long, every day so that's the kind of player that the devs have to target.

 

Guilds can do this kind of thing in a matter of hours, and this game is guild-based. If you two weren't in a guild that was helping you out every step of the way, then you weren't getting the full game experience.

 

The tl;dr here is, you're supposed to actually play the game itself, not just the story. Players who juts want to jump into the story and play it all the way to the end have their wallets, just like all convenience items.

Love how this thread has turned into "Just get someone else to send you 1000 gold!" as the solution to "People expect to be able to play the game's main storyline in order after they purchase the game by clicking a big button that says THIS IS IT, THIS IS THE WHOLE GAME!! on it, and when they find out they can't it sorta sets a baseline expectation that the game is clunky and stingy."

Real crab-bucket stuff.

[PeterRedhill.3182]

44 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Love how this thread has turned into "Just get someone else to send you 1000 gold!" as the solution to "People expect to be able to play the game's main storyline in order after they purchase the game by clicking a big button that says THIS IS IT, THIS IS THE WHOLE GAME!! on it, and when they find out they can't it sorta sets a baseline expectation that the game is clunky and stingy."

Real crab-bucket stuff.

When compared to games like FFXIV the story element of this game is an absolute joke.  And it's really funny to see people here get their torches out because someone just told them the sky is blue. 

But yeah them not adding the LW seasons with expansion purchases will always cause this issue.  And people saying if you cared buy it I raise you FFXIV's free trial.  I can right now get the in's and out's leading up to Stormblood FOR FREE and then decided to pay for more content.  Everything from interpersonal relationships to lead up to why what is happening and why it matters is just handled so much better than in this game.  Think about someone jumping from HoT from the base game and you get forum posts like this.  It goes back to an old saying "If I don't know what's going on.  I have no reason to care about it."  LW1 and LW2 should come with HoT and LW3 with PoF.  You would still have to buy LW4 and Icebrood so Arenanet can still make money on those.  This gives a new player a better story experience overall.  Telling them to just buy it is a cop out and you know it.  They just opened their wallets to buy the expansions stop being greedy.

Edited October 13, 2021 by PMoneyMobileRobot.4630

[Gwynhara.7261]

To me, as someone who was here when the game launched and has bounced back and forth every now and then with it since then, the main issue for truly new players (like people I have tried to bring along in some of those "bouncebacks", but also including sometimes me ....) is that the whole thing is terribly confusing.  It's clear as a practical matter that you want to (really have to) do certain things as a priority (like mounts) in order to play the more advanced game properly with others, but there isn't anything in the game that really indicates this or points at this, and there isn't anything "official" in the way the game explains itself to new players (or prospective buyers) that the path to follow is X to Y to Z and so on, and this and that is what you will have to purchase in order to access the story and so on.   It's all like a big mystery and puzzle to new players, and that's off-putting to many I think.

 

I mean you can find the information if you look around, that's true, but that isn't accessible.  And it's really interesting how a game that started as a very accessible casual MMO became kind of a confusing labyrinth for new players along the way.

[hathana.2806]

Just chiming in to say that they did announce gliders will be unlocked for EOD and raptors and springers will be unlockable on those maps as well.

 

I know that won’t fix the story holes but I never played s1 or 2 (just read the wiki) and I feel caught up fine haha…

[Cuks.8241]

5 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Your complaint that the Living World expansions costing money is false, as a veteran player you should know that you can do 30g/hr farms (20g/hr even in the venerable Silverwastes), and that getting this content for a friend using only in-game gold takes less than a week of mostly casual effort. It may seem like alot to you, but players literally do this all day long, every day so that's the kind of player that the devs have to target.

 

So your solution for a new player that just bought the game and found out that he needs to pay extra money to continue after the free story is to grind gold for a week?

So alternative to a day 0 paid DLC for starting the story is a week long grind (probably much more for a new player that hasn't stepped out of core maps). If someone gave me this advice I would probably quit at that point even though I just bought it due to my impression on how the game will go on from now on (predatory practices and grind). 

This is a business and we have a saying in our country (I think it's the same in english): "Customer is king". It doesn't matter how the game was designed 9 years a go, it doesn't matter how it was intended to play, it doesn't matter how non predatory it actually is, doesn't matter how long old players play and how much money they spent. Anet need to get fresh blood in the game with Eod and needs to retain them for a respectable amount of time. After IBS I think EOD really needs to be successful and if they need to change some practices, well they should.

Maybe I am completely wrong and game is super successful and it doesn't matter how Eod does because they are sitting on piles of bitcoins. But I kinda doubt it. But these complaints about non transparent DLCs are a constant and I felt a bit ripped off myself when I bought the expansions and immediately found out I need more money to continue story. 

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Arnedillo.2456 said:

Holy, I love Guild Wars 2 but I don't get how you all can say that you see no problem with it. 

As it stands for me, I explained it here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/103192-this-game-isnt-very-new-player-friendly/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1486987

Is there a reason that opinion is unclear or is it just you disliking it because it goes against yours?

Quote

Living Stories are a horrible thing for new players, and that's a fact. If i join a new MMO and its best part is the story, there is no kittening way I pay for 2 Expansions and 3 Living Worlds and Icebrood to play the content. Its just to much money. No new player friendly at all, and your only option is to play the story disjointed, wich isn't friendly to new players either. Remember, story is one of the strongest points for new players.

Who judges if the game's "best part is the story"? In fact you have someone right below your post claiming the story is a joke when compared to another game. Seems like it's entirely subjective, so making an argument that "Remember, story is one of the strongest points for new players." is misguided -I know for a fact that it wouldn't be for me. Not only that, but I already explained my point of view about that in the post I've linked above:

"Currently for the new players, just buyng 3 expansions, playing through them(+core) along with their achievements and side activities builds up to a rather significant amount of content to complete."

If you literally only/mainly care about the story, you're most probably not someone who will consistently stick around. Right? Wrong? If you think it's wrong, why?

Quote

I also understand that they can't give it for free to everyone, because they need to make money. But man, make a pass that doesnt cost you 50$ and unlocks all the living worlds. Or at least, if I buy the expansion give me a 50% voucher for all the living world that the expansion has. Still not friendly, but better than nothing.

Ok, here I'm mainly curious if there's any reason you've decided on that particular price point and subsequent "voucher % value" or you'd use similar discount number no matter the price or content each episode would contain? Care to share how you came up with those?

 

That said, I still think it should be made clear that LWs are not inclulded in the purchase of previous expansions and maybe add more bundles that include expansion/s +respective LW season/s.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I am not a new player to GW2, obviously, so it might be hard for me to talk from that perspective.

However, I think it disingenuous to suggest a new player wouldn't expect to find additional content, convenience items, and cosmetic items in some form of cash shop when starting a new game.  In fact, and maybe I am alone in doing this, but, when looking at new games I specifically look for these additional DLC or Cash Shop items (and whatever monetizing mechanics are used).

It is my responsibility, as a player, to make sure I am aware of what I am buying, and what additional costs could come up.  I rarely purchase something without a bit of research in advance, as I haven't got stacks of cash to be throwing away.  GW2 has a F2P options that allows you to learn a great deal about this game before spending a penny on it.  Who is responsible for buying a product without knowing what that product entails?

Anet isn't hiding the Living World nor the associated costs from anyone.  In the same way they aren't hiding convenience items in the cash shop.  Thanks to threads like these, there are tons of search results online for those that care to research the details.  And, I am pretty sure I have seen posts here where players have bought the game, then been refunded when they found out there were additional costs for LW.  Like, even if you, for whatever reason, buy the game without reading a damned thing about it, Anet will refund you, and that sounds pretty new player friendly.

If the only real complaint about this game not being 'new player friendly' is a few extra cost items, ones that anyone who has played an online game would conceivably expect and look for, then is the title of this thread really appropriate?  Probably not.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Lord Grey.5042]

Firstly as a disclaimer, as a long time player of multiple MMOs (CoH, Wow, Swtor, GW1, GW2, ESO, Rift, etc.) as disjointed or frustrated you may be, I feel GW2 has the best possible pay model I have experienced and have never felt obligated to buy, or cheated out of money (outside of maybe gem store cosmetic creep)

So I disagree with bundling LW stuff. you don't need it. heck, you technically don't even need to do the story in the game (I would argue that's a minor part of the content). But if you do want to, pay for it.

 

That said,

Here's the solution for you as someone that's had to figure out a way to introduce new people to the game.

Id say they need to eventually get HoT and PoF.

1. help them level 1-80 in core Tyria. DO NOT BOOST! Take time to figure out class and weapons, and how to play. (you can even chose to do story later all at once)

2. start Pof, play 15 minutes, get your raptor. Then you need to help them get their bunny. Don't do more then the intro story to get there

3. watch a summary vid for LWS2 story so you aren't lost.

4. play through HoT. again take time to enjoy this content. (If you are rushed for some dumb reason, join a HP train. Many hit easy mastery points along the way as well. Just ask the commander of your party, and tip them)

5. decide if you feel invested enough to buy and play LWS3

6. Play through PoF and onwards in order.

 

Keep in mind most veteran players didn't have mounts at all in HoT, nor flying mounts in PoF. They are a luxury that you WORK for. Not a free handout.

[ASP.8093]

16 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

It is my responsibility, as a player, to make sure I am aware of what I am buying, and what additional costs could come up.  I rarely purchase something without a bit of research in advance, as I haven't got stacks of cash to be throwing away.  GW2 has a F2P options that allows you to learn a great deal about this game before spending a penny on it.  Who is responsible for buying a product without knowing what that product entails?

Anet isn't hiding the Living World nor the associated costs from anyone.  In the same way they aren't hiding convenience items in the cash shop.  Thanks to threads like these, there are tons of search results online for those that care to research the details.  And, I am pretty sure I have seen posts here where players have bought the game, then been refunded when they found out there were additional costs for LW.  Like, even if you, for whatever reason, buy the game without reading a damned thing about it, Anet will refund you, and that sounds pretty new player friendly.

Like we've already covered in this thread:

There's literally an option in the first-party shop right now that says "Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world," and it includes 0% of the stuff Anet and the players habitually refer to as "Living World."

 

If you buy that and feel cheated, Anet will give you a refund, because they are NOT a scummy cheapskate company. But you know what happens when someone claims that refund? That's another potential player who has left the game. That's not good for the company or the community, which is the point of these complaints: Guild Wars 2 is a great game saddled with a really silly restriction on how you go about actually buying that game so you can play it, there is literally no bundle "complete" enough that you won't log in for the first time with the requirement to buy a bunch more pieces of the game a la carte. (The best you can do is buy an "ultimate edition" and then immediately blow all your gems on LS, which, again, is not the advertised purpose of those gems — the ad copy promises you cool skins and other fun-time stuff.)

 

You talk about "doing your research" but part of that "do your research" thing is that video-game players have learned that any game that requires a messy web of in-app-purchase add-ons to be a complete game is usually a predatory, extractive product that will constantly put your fun behind a paywall. So more informed people see all this mess and the main thing they perceive is a big red flag.

 

And the thing we're discussing isn't even a key part of the game's overall income stream since most existing players just got all that stuff for free. It's just a weird crusty wart like unplayable season 1, random-only mount skins, or stronghold pvp. But it's way easier to fix than all of those other things so it's very annoying that Anet hasn't quite done it yet. ("Return To" was a massive step in the right direction but now that it's not June 2021 anymore anyone new who joins once again has to pay for that stuff.)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Up until pre-purchase for EoD, there was information on the Guild Wars 2 purchase page(s) for Living World content.  I assume it was removed (for now) because there is no on-going Living World Season releases. 

[Rasimir.6239]

50 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

There's literally an option in the first-party shop right now that says "Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world," and it includes 0% of the stuff Anet and the players habitually refer to as "Living World."

Then again, when you check similar games, their purchase pages are no different. ESO for example tells you "go anywhere, at any time in a truly open world" on their latest expansion's purchase page, and even mentions that the purchase includes "the Base Game and all Chapters". Nowhere on the page does it mention that a chapter is only one fourth of the yearly release, with three paid DLC preceeding/continuing each year's story as well as some of the more prominent rewards.

 

LotRO also sells previous expansions, but still has paid DLC that you can buy in game. Looking beyond MMORPGs, games like Civ6 or even the Sims as far back as 20 years ago come with a mix of paid expansions and DLC, and you will always have to look closely and/or do extensive research to figure out what's included in which purchase.

 

I honestly have a hard time believing that there are many players at this day and age that expect any of the larger games to come with a all-inclusive package, especially at the low price point of GW2 expansions. It's not like DLC and micro transactions are in any way new to the industry.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

There's literally an option in the first-party shop right now that says "Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world," and it includes 0% of the stuff Anet and the players habitually refer to as "Living World."

Well yes, you aren't buying the Living World here are you?  Neither are there mention of Waypoint Unlock Packs or Unbreakable Harvesting Tools, or any of the many 'Preparation' packs they offer.  In fact, while they include Gems in the Ultimate pack, the only description is "The ultimate in Tyrian spending power. Treat yourself to a new in-game outfit, item, or upgrade in the Gem Store—or convert your gems directly into gold. A $50 value! (Please allow up to 72 hours for delivery after purchase.)"

That is it, a single entry on that page for the Gem Store, buried in a tooltip for the 4000 gems.

One could argue another info tip is misleading...

Canthan Raptor Skin - A bright and colorful skin for your raptor mount. (Note: While Aquatic Canthan Raptors enjoy the beach, they cannot swim.) (Available at purchase)

My Raptor mount?  Should I expect to have a Raptor mount included just buy buying this?  It doesn't say anything about having to earn it in game from PoF.  Is this misleading or disingenuous? 

Does the above seem appropriate or outlandish to you?  We all know you have to earn the Raptor Mount and this is just a skin but, let's play 'new player' here and wonder, how many new players are going to think this actually means they are giving you a free mount?

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

You talk about "doing your research" but part of that "do your research" thing is that video-game players have learned that any game that requires a messy web of in-app-purchase add-ons to be a complete game is usually a predatory, extractive product that will constantly put your fun behind a paywall. So more informed people see all this mess and the main thing they perceive is a big red flag.

Many of us have done enough research or had experiences with enough games to know what you are referring to.  However, many of us have also played MMO with sub fees, P2Win/P2Convenience, charged DLC, and the like.  I would assert that most players who see the LW DLC and Charge as a red flag would be hard pressed to find other similar instances within GW2.  Other than LW, what else unlocks content (not convenience or skins) and is only available via the cash shop?

If a player sees the way LW is laid out and sees it as a red flag, then bails on GW2, that is fine.  If they judge the entirety of GW2 on one rather small facet of the game, I do not have a problem with them making that choice.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Mungo Zen.9364
and again

[Mell.4873]

Honestly just enjoy the game, don't worry to much about the mount. You have do the entire hot story without one and alot of the masteries can be obtained solo.

If there is a silver lining they plan on providing temporary mounts in the new expansion so maybe they will retroactively implement them. 

[Vayne.8563]

On 10/13/2021 at 1:59 AM, jeyaredubs.9348 said:

So then you agree, that the story is disjointed unless you shell out the money to be able to play the story the way it was intended, in a game where the story is the base line for the content being delivered?

Sure I agree. The story nonexistent in FFXIV unless you shell out money every month, what's your point. The ENTIRE story is less than six months of sub to FFXIV.  All of it. So as a complaint, this is ridiculous to someone playing a pay to play MMO.  You want to get the full story in most MMOs, you have to either sub or optionally sub, or buy the story as it comes out. You don't play for XX XIV expansions in ADDITION to the sub?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[PeterRedhill.3182]

24 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Sure I agree. The story nonexistent in FFXIV unless you shell out money every month, what's your point. The ENTIRE story is less than six months of sub to FFXIV.  All of it. So as a complaint, this is ridiculous to someone playing a pay to play MMO.  You want to get the full story in most MMOs, you have to either sub or optionally sub, or buy the story as it comes out. You don't play for XX XIV expansions in ADDITION to the sub?

Just to add you can play up to 60 and do Heavensward for free.  Given there is still two expansions worth of content that both costs money and has a subscription.  With all that said you can easily beat the Shadowbringers story within a month of leaving free to play, but I'm willing to say two months to be more reasonable.  Now if you didn't want to continue the end game and just did story you can blast through it pretty easily.  Now that being said you can pick the expansions up pretty cheap normally.  But if it's a monetary issue I still think FFXIV is more cost effective to play so long as you don't participate in all the things there to make you subscribe for months if not years on end.  FFXIV is a weird case in that it's designed for you to take breaks from.  The developers themselves have said this as well.  But given how GW2 is buy to play it's cheaper.  And that's all well and good l, but it doesn't change the fact that after you buy the expansions you're still expected by the story to play those living world seasons which honestly is kitten.  Just in a game design sense it's just stupid.  Now you can convert gold into gems to buy them and that's cool, but as a new player you're not going to do that.  You're more likely to open your wallet.  All I want from them is to stop being greedy and just roll them into the purchases these new players already made.  Just for consistencies sake at this point.  Again that's something that FFXIV does and it blows this game out of the water with it.  Unfortunately any criticism you give falls on deaf ears but still I'm not gonna stop saying it.  Fanboys are gonna fanboy, but expect better out of Arenanet.   Remember only you can prevent stupid.

Edited October 14, 2021 by PMoneyMobileRobot.4630

[Vayne.8563]

7 minutes ago, PMoneyMobileRobot.4630 said:

Just to add you can play up to 60 and do Heavensward for free.  Given there is still two expansions worth of content that both costs money and has a subscription.  With all that said you can easily beat the Shadowbringers story within a month of leaving free to play, but I'm willing to say two months to be more reasonable.  Now if you didn't want to continue the end game and just did story you can blast through it pretty easily.  Now that being said you can pick the expansions up pretty cheap normally.  But if it's a monetary issue I still think FFXIV is more cost effective to play so long as you don't participate in all the things there to make you subscribe for months if not years on end.  FFXIV is a weird case in that it's designed for you to take breaks from.  The developers themselves have said this as well.  But given how GW2 is buy to play it's cheaper.  And that's all well and good l, but it doesn't change the fact that after you buy the expansions you're still expected by the story to play those living world seasons which honestly is kitten.  Just in a game design sense it's just stupid.  Now you can convert gold into gems to buy them and that's cool, but as a new player you're not going to do that.  You're more likely to open your wallet.  All I want from them is to stop being greedy and just roll them into the purchases these new players already made.  Just for consistencies sake at this point.  Again that's something that FFXIV does and it blows this game out of the water with it.  Unfortunately any criticism you give falls on deaf ears but still I'm not gonna stop saying it.  Fanboys are gonna fanboy, but expect better out of Arenanet.   Remember only you can prevent stupid.

And every time an expansion comes out from now on you have to buy it again, that's my point.  You're still paying for story. Why should this game, a non sub game, be any different?  Also you're 'saying as long as you don't play an MMO as an MMO you don't have to sub. That in itself is a pretty weak argument to me.

[Sarm.5923]

I think there's a small mental aspect to it (or at least there was for me) in being initially resistant about wanting to spend money on Living World content because no matter what you pay, it's kinda weird to require a second purchase shortly afterward to keep from having a disrupted story experience. I had poked around the gem store before I bought the expansions so I knew that LW had its own thing in the Upgrades section, but that didn't stop me from checking "just in case" to see if my purchase bundled them, even though I knew they weren't.

An additional purchase requirement means an additional chance for second thoughts and doubting if your first decision was a good idea.

[PeterRedhill.3182]

Just now, Vayne.8563 said:

And every time an expansion comes out from now on you have to buy it again, that's my point.  You're still paying for story. Why should this game, a non sub game, be any different?  Also you're 'saying as long as you don't play an MMO as an MMO you don't have to sub. That in itself is a pretty weak argument to me.

Not really though.  You have to remember that those expansion purchases are generally two years apart from each other.  And also to reinstate that in buying Shadowbringers for example I don't have to buy Stormblood.  Meaning for the cost of one expansion I get two and when Endwalker comes out it becomes 3.  Regardless again those story beats and interpersonal relationships with the characters attached to the story come with those purchases.

In this game if I bought End of Dragons and it came with all of the expansion that's great because it's the same value right?  Except it's not.  Because the patch content those living worlds in between don't come with it.  So in buying the LATEST EXPANSION I as the consumer am missing out on that said story unless I pony up more money.

It's not the same thing.

[Vayne.8563]

G

3 minutes ago, PMoneyMobileRobot.4630 said:

Not really though.  You have to remember that those expansion purchases are generally two years apart from each other.  And also to reinstate that in buying Shadowbringers for example I don't have to buy Stormblood.  Meaning for the cost of one expansion I get two and when Endwalker comes out it becomes 3.  Regardless again those story beats and interpersonal relationships with the characters attached to the story come with those purchases.

In this game if I bought End of Dragons and it came with all of the expansion that's great because it's the same value right?  Except it's not.  Because the patch content those living worlds in between don't come with it.  So in buying the LATEST EXPANSION I as the consumer am missing out on that said story unless I pony up more money.

It's not the same thing.

Guild Wars 2 has 4 living story chapters, in between expansions, over 9 years.  Or every 2 years. But they're free for people who log in too.  I don't see your point.

[PeterRedhill.3182]

2 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

G

Guild Wars 2 has 4 living story chapters, in between expansions, over 9 years.  Or every 2 years. But they're free for people who log in too.  I don't see your point.

The whole point of the topic is coming from a new player's perspective.  How in the holy hand grenade of Antioch is a new player going to have that content for free?  I'm genuinely curious as to how you plan to move that goal post.  Without the gold aspect as a new player wouldn't have the gold to convert anyway.

Edited October 14, 2021 by PMoneyMobileRobot.4630

[Vayne.8563]

Just now, PMoneyMobileRobot.4630 said:

The whole point of the topic is coming from a new player's perspective.  How in the holy hand grenade of Antioch is a new player going to have that content for free?  I'm genuinely curious as to how you plan to move that goal post.

It's still less money than most MMO players will end up spending on FF XIV in a year, period,. unless they stop playing.