No word on Strikes?

[Flapjackson.1596]

The Winter Roadmap appears to be missing info on Strikes yes? That’s going to be a pretty big part of the expansion content right? They dedicated a section to it on the First Look. I understand that they are keeping it close to the chest for spoiler reasons, but is that really as big a concern?

 

Is every strike boss a massive spoiler? Is there no boss that would be fine to show out of context? Would most spoilers be a concern when we don’t even know the context? Out of context reveals are fairly common in advertising for that exact reason. 
 

i don’t want to keep seeing bits and pieces of only the safest information to share. I like harder content and I would like to know what I’m paying for. I’d like to know more details on the reward restructure. We don’t need to know everything, but this radio silence on the roadmap is concerning.

[Fueki.4753]

We don't know anything about the strikes yet.

Maybe they aren't anywhere close to being shown in their production.

Maybe they all are story encounters that are not to be spoiled.

Maybe they are post-launch content they aren't even working on yet.

Maybe they just forgot to list them, like the fourth beta event.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

57 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

We don't know anything about the strikes yet.

Maybe they aren't anywhere close to being shown in their production.

Maybe they all are story encounters that are not to be spoiled.

Maybe they are post-launch content they aren't even working on yet.

Maybe they just forgot to list them, like the fourth beta event.

Or maybe they were 'deleted' like the fourth beta event?

[Linken.6345]

They have already said strikes are repurposed story bosses and that cms wont come at release but couple of months after.

[Sobx.1758]

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Or maybe they were 'deleted' like the fourth beta event?

...what? 😄

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:47 AM, Flapjackson.1596 said:

The Winter Roadmap appears to be missing info on Strikes yes? That’s going to be a pretty big part of the expansion content right? They dedicated a section to it on the First Look. I understand that they are keeping it close to the chest for spoiler reasons, but is that really as big a concern?

 

Is every strike boss a massive spoiler? Is there no boss that would be fine to show out of context? Would most spoilers be a concern when we don’t even know the context? Out of context reveals are fairly common in advertising for that exact reason. 
 

i don’t want to keep seeing bits and pieces of only the safest information to share. I like harder content and I would like to know what I’m paying for. I’d like to know more details on the reward restructure. We don’t need to know everything, but this radio silence on the roadmap is concerning.

Well they teased that they would be revamping the system -> they don't necessarily have to even spoil EoD strikes for that. I THINK I remember them saying they were adding CMs to the IB saga ones as well. They can test the new reward system and their revamp while waiting. I was actually about to post the same thing: when are we getting more info on this? I want to know what I'm getting for doing strikes now and I'm feeling a tad bit antsy with all the silence. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Well they teased that they would be revamping the system -> they don't necessarily have to even spoil EoD strikes for that. I THINK I remember them saying they were adding CMs to the IB saga ones as well. They can test the new reward system and their revamp while waiting. I was actually about to post the same thing: when are we getting more info on this? I want to know what I'm getting for doing strikes now and I'm feeling a tad bit antsy with all the silence. 

Why would they spoil the rewards for strikes when they don't spoil rewards for any other content? We know how strikes look like and cms might be just variants on raid cms where certain mechanics are added/locked to make certain mecahnics more... mandatory to use -so cm will mean different thing for each encounter.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why would they spoil the rewards for strikes when they don't spoil rewards for any other content? 

You must have been asleep when they've discussed fishing rewards.....

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

You must have been asleep when they've discussed fishing rewards.....

Fishing is an entirely new thing, strikes are not. And we barely got anything detailed anyways, but definitely remind me if I slept through something there.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Fishing is an entirely new thing, strikes are not. And we barely got anything detailed anyways, but definitely remind me if I slept through something there.

You said "ANY OTHER CONTENT". They said achievements and food recipes in following guild chats. that's the reward for the mastery and its related activies. We don't need explicit recipes detailed in the fishing announcement to understand what they mean and I'm not asking for that, I'm just curious what the new system is and a general description of its rewards. 

I'm just waiting for you to respond and retroactively change what the English language means to suit your purposes in this discussion. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

You said "ANY OTHER CONTENT". They said achievements and food recipes in following guild chats. that's the reward for the mastery and its related activies. We don't need explicit recipes detailed in the fishing announcement to understand what they mean and I'm not asking for that, I'm just curious what the new system is and a general description of its rewards.

Ok, then I can tell you already that SMs will have achievements and some items for the strike currency as rewards. Isn't it as much specifics as in regards of fishing rewards? For me it's more of a general area than the actual information about rewards and that's also what I've meant above. We know that general area because strikes are already in the game and that's how they work.

Ah and if you want to quote me, I didn't just say "ANY OTHER CONTENT", I specifically said: "Why would they spoil the rewards for strikes when they don't spoil rewards for any other content?"

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

Quote

Ah and if you want to quote me, I didn't just say "ANY OTHER CONTENT", I specifically said: "Why would they spoil the rewards for strikes when they don't spoil rewards for any other content?"

People were thinking it could have had a monster hunting aspect to it, so this is still a spoiler, people understand more based on that clarification. I mean we could all just assume there'd be a boss and items. But people want to know more and that's not a bad thing. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Except that was already a given. I could even generalize fishing further saying "the mastery will let you earn something" and your initial statement is false.  Right now Strikes have 0 niche in terms of rewards. Fractals are more efficient for ascended gear and raids give legendaries. I think what OP and most people responding want to see is how the system will work and how it will stand out from other systems, both in terms of reward and play.

Exactly, that was a given, so as I said they didn't spoil any rewards. And why do they suddenly need to have a niche?

Quote

I guess you can be done here though. You've just solved it for us all, right? 

I honestly have no idea what you're aiming at with this. Solved what? That we know the general area of the SM rewards? And that general area is what we know about fishing as well? It's literally the point of what I was saying above. We'll know the specific rewards when we see/play the content ingame, I don't understand how this is supposed to be a problem?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Exactly, that was a given, so as I said they didn't spoil any rewards. And why do they suddenly need to have a niche?

They did. I edited my post above to explain. 

And by your definition is EoD content so holy we can't know more about it before it launches? Like why are we having beta spec events if we're not supposed to know what the traits do before the expansion? OP and people responding are asking for more details and there's no issue with that. Are you saying we cant ask for more details?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

They did. I edited my post above to explain. 

And by your definition is EoD content so holy we can't know more about it before it launches? Like why are we having beta spec events if we're not supposed to know what the traits do before the expansion.

There's a difference between showcasing the core content of the expansion you're buying and having the specifics of the rewards spoiled in the preview. I don't see a reason to suddenly start going through the rewards one-after-another available in each content. Did that happen for the previous expansions?

7 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

OP and people responding are asking for more details and there's no issue with that. Are you saying we cant ask for more details?

Where did I write anything like that? Trying to make me some kind of villain here reaal hard, eh? 😄

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

There's a different between the core content of the expansion you're buying and having a specific of the rewards spoiled in the preview.

Howso? OP likes doing 10-man content, he wants to know if the new content is worth his time both in terms of play and reward. The strikes are a core part of the expansion to him. They don't have to say, item by item what it is, but even if they did, that's not bad. 

And I'm fairly certain you're wrong on rewards not being spoiled. While I wasn't present for HoT launch, masteries came with it, I'm fairly certain they explained the legendary line and its rewards at some point. 

[Sobx.1758]

What do you mean howso? Because playable content is playable content and rewards are rewards. Two different brackets. And feel free to not avoid the rest of my posts instead of picking singular sentences each time.

5 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

And I'm fairly certain you're wrong on rewards not being spoiled. While I wasn't present for HoT launch, masteries came with it, I'm fairly certain they explained the legendary line and its rewards at some point. 

So you're not "fairly certain" -you're "hopeful that your idea about it was factual".

And the masteries were a new system unlcoking new mechanics, not a reward in itself. Not only that, but even now they're describing what new masteries will do. It doesn't seem it has anything to do with what I said above about spoiling specific rewards in each specific content.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What do you mean howso? Because playable content is playable content and rewards are rewards. Two different brackets

I mean, why is it bad/wrong? You're saying rewards are never discussed. I dont' think that's true, but even if was it's not a rule. Feel free to show me in Anet's handbook where they never say they reveal rewards. Heck, elite specs are a reward for earning HPs in the expansion, so there, you have another reward tied to a piece of content explicity revealed before the content itself! O wow. 

 

Quote

And feel free to not avoid the rest of my posts instead of picking singular sentences each time.

That sentence was the entire premise of your post. Your entire post is based on some holiness around not exposing content before an expansion is released, which I think is kind of confusing. If people don't want spoilers, they won't watch them, if they do, they will. Anet has nothing to lose showing off enough to sell the expansion and based on OP's post, it sounds like he's not sold yet, so they need to. 

 

Quote

And the masteries were a new system unlcoking new mechanics, not a reward in itself. Not only that, but even now they're describing what new masteries will do. It doesn't seem it has anything to do with what I said above about spoiling specific rewards in each specific content.

And many masteries unlock rewards. Like access to legendaries. Or access to fish. You're splitting hairs here if you box in masteries this way. By the same logic, strikes are bosses only, rewards be damned. You do masteres to access to those rewards, just like you do strikes for access to those rewards. Some are just mechanics, like gliding, but fishing and legendary core line are inherently tied to a reward. IB saga as well as it unlocks particular chests. You're arguing just to argue. Based on some random worldview you pulled literally out of no where. 


 

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I mean, why is it bad/wrong? You're saying rewards are never discussed. I dont' think that's true, but even if was it's not a rule. Feel free to show me in Anet's handbook where they never say they reveal rewards. Heck, elite specs are a reward for earning HPs in the expansion, so there, you have another reward tied to a piece of content explicity revealed before the content itself! O wow.

"Show you Anet's handbook"? That's not how it works. You keep repeating "I think it's not true", but then you even say you weren't around on hot release, as well as try to push description of mastery system (which is also being done for EoD) as spoiling rewards for each content type. If you think I'm wrong, like you keep repeating in your last few posts, then that's ok, you can think so. But if you want to show it's wrong, then you can show me where they keep spoiling specific rewards for each released expansion's specific content. Specifics of HPs aren't even revealed in the first place. And people can unlock especs with core/hot/pof hero points as well as by just using proofs/testimonies of heroics.

Quote

That sentence was the entire premise of your post. Your entire post is based on some holiness around not exposing content before an expansion is released, which I think is kind of confusing. If people don't want spoilers, they won't watch them, if they do, they will. Anet has nothing to lose showing off enough to sell the expansion

Even if you think "my entire post is based on some holiness around not exposing content before an expansion is released, which I think is kind of confusing", it doesn't seem to have much to do with the part you've quoted here, which was talking about avoiding majority of the post you were responding to.

And it has nothing to do with "some holiness", this is just something that's not consistently happening for expansion releases as far as I know, but suddenly "not having specific rewards discussed for this specific content" is supposed to be "concerning" according to some users of the forum. I simply don't see how that's concerning or even out of ordinary.

Quote

and based on OP's post, it sounds like he's not sold yet, so they need to.

That's not exactly how that works. If I say I want the devs to give me 10k ap points as part of EoD purchase (as a reward I'm interested in!), it doesn't mean they suddenly need to do it. Not only that, but it seems highly improbable that OP -or anyone else- will actually base their decision of next expansion purchase strictly on the specific reward/s from one specific content. In fact OP says he likes harder content, at which point if that content really is harder (as announced), it already should be -at least partially- covering OP's interests and push him towards the purchase, shouldn't it? Other than that, we know how reward systems work in this game.

Quote

And many masteries unlock rewards. Like access to legendaries. Or access to fish. You're splitting hairs here if you box in masteries this way. By the same logic, strikes are bosses only, rewards be damned. You do masteres to access to those rewards, just like you do strikes for access to those rewards. Some are just mechanics, like gliding, but fishing and legendary core line are inherently tied to a reward. IB saga as well as it unlocks particular chests. You're arguing just to argue. Based on some random worldview you pulled literally out of no where.

They unlock access to, but aren't granting those rewards by themselves. You don't get a legendary for mastery unlock. Fishing isn't a reward, it's a new ingame mechanic/activity with its own rewards. These are two different things. "Literally out of nowhere" being "past expansion releases"?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

 

On 10/12/2021 at 11:47 AM, Flapjackson.1596 said:

The Winter Roadmap appears to be missing info on Strikes yes? That’s going to be a pretty big part of the expansion content right? They dedicated a section to it on the First Look. I understand that they are keeping it close to the chest for spoiler reasons, but is that really as big a concern?

 

Is every strike boss a massive spoiler? Is there no boss that would be fine to show out of context? Would most spoilers be a concern when we don’t even know the context? Out of context reveals are fairly common in advertising for that exact reason. 
 

i don’t want to keep seeing bits and pieces of only the safest information to share. I like harder content and I would like to know what I’m paying for. I’d like to know more details on the reward restructure. We don’t need to know everything, but this radio silence on the roadmap is concerning.

The best bet on the winter Schedule is Dec 3. Though strikes are not in the sub-topics, it is the gameplay one and if we're getting any kind of reveal, it's coming there. 

 

Quote

Fishing isn't a reward, it's a new ingame mechanic/activity with its own rewards. 

Right. So the reward from fishing isn't from the mastery. And it's from the activity. Just like strikes are an activity and the reward comes from them. And the activity associated with the mastery has been revealed, as well as more specific details about the associated reward. Strikes and fishing are the same. They are an activity that yields a reward. So your comment, that there's been no reveals of rewards for content is false. We've seen fishing content, we've seen rewards. Your entire post is a lot of words to say you've made an arbitrary decision about Anet's patterns while you blatantly contradict yourself. Also your comment on elite specs is entirely invalid and mental backlips around the fact that especs are a reward for an activity we haven't even SEEN yet. We don't know what HP unlocks even look like in EoD yet, they could be the same, they could be entirely different. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Right. So the reward from fishing isn't from the mastery. And it's from the activity.

Yes. Which is why trying to claim that showing what the masteries are connected to = spoiling specific rewards from specific content across the expansion doesn't make much sense to me.

Quote

Just like strikes are an activity and the reward comes from them. And the activity associated with the mastery has been revealed, as well as more specific details about the associated reward. 

Yes. And you said that "They said achievements and food recipes". Isn't this the equivalent of knowing "strikes will have achievements and some items associated with strike currency/rare drops"?

Quote

Your entire post is a lot of words to say you've made an arbitrary decision about Anet's patterns. Also your comment on elite specs is entirely invalid and mental backlips around the fact that especs are a reward for an activity we haven't even SEEN yet. We don't know what HP unlocks even look like. 

I don't mean to be condescending in any way, so hopefully it won't be taken as such, but I literally had to check if I understand the word "arbitrary" correctly and what google told me is: "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.". Since I'm trying to base what I say here on the past expansion releases and their revealed information, it doesn't seem to be "arbitrary/random choice/personal whim". Instead, I'm trying to rely on the system the game dev seem to use while releasing their expansions for this specific game.

But we know especs are a big part of every expansion. Especs by themsevels are definitely closer to being seen as content than the reward as well as being a major selling point. Meanwhile some specific reward for some specific content is not.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes. Which is why trying to claim that showing what the masteries are connected to = spoiling specific rewards from specific content across the expansion doesn't make much sense to me.

But you've already acknowledge the activity that said mastery unlocks and that we've seen rewards from it. In fact we saw a specific fish and the crafting reagent it was converted to in this stream:

Guild Chat Episode 109 - Fishing and Skiffs - YouTube

13:15-20

So it wouldn't even be crazy for them to show us a specific item and hover over its details either from strikes (as they do with the fish). That's how specific the reward for the content unlocked by the mastery is. The mastery is just an extra layer strikes don't have, they're immediately accessible.

 

Quote

I don't mean to be condescending in any way, so hopefully it won't be taken as such, but I literally had to check if I understand the word "arbitrary" correctly and what google told me is: "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.". Since I'm trying to base what I say here on the past expansion releases and their revealed information, it doesn't seem to be "arbitrary/random choice/personal whim". Instead, I'm trying to rely on the system the game dev seem to use while releasing their expansions for this specific game.

I'm hoping I'm not being condescending here, but if you wanted to prove that it isn't personal whim or choice, wouldn't that mean you have to quote anet saying they would never do such a thing? Because right now, it's still you talking. Not anet. You have to prove it's them before you can say otherwise. People are asking them to reveal more, not asking if they have in the past. But I believe there's plenty of empirical evidence otherwise. 

 

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But we know especs are a big part of every expansion. Especs by themsevels are definitely closer to being seen as content than the reward as well as being a major selling point. Meanwhile some specific reward for some specific content is not.

If they're not a reward, then why do we have to earn them? The fact they're extra content is inconsequential. It can be both content and a reward. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

But you've already acknowledge the activity that said mastery unlocks and that we've seen rewards from it. In fact we saw a specific fish and the crafting reagent it was converted to in this stream:

Guild Chat Episode 109 - Fishing and Skiffs - YouTube

13:15-20

So it wouldn't even be crazy for them to show us a specific item and hover over its details either from strikes (as they do with the fish). That's how specific the reward for the content unlocked by the mastery is. The mastery is just an extra layer strikes don't have, they're immediately accessible.

What we see is a material that in itself tells/gives us nothing (if we had that material in the game right now in our inventories, it's completely worthless by itself. As for the fact that fishing by default at least gives some fish materials... was there ever any reasonable doubt about that?) -all we know from it is that you use it in cooking or trade for rewards. I guess if they told us "you get tokens/strike currency that can be traded for rewards", it would be enough of a response for you/OP? Is this really what you mean by all that talk about revealing the rewards?

Quote

I'm hoping I'm not being condescending here, but if you wanted to prove that it isn't personal whim or choice, wouldn't that mean you have to quote anet saying they would never do such a thing? Because right now, it's still you talking. Not anet. You have to prove it's them before you can say otherwise. People are asking them to reveal more, not asking if they have in the past. But I believe there's plenty of empirical evidence otherwise. 

No, it means we look at the previous releases, which automatically makes it based on something specific, related strictly to teasers/reveals for expansion releases of this particular game by this particular dev instead of just being my randomized opinion like you've tried to suggest, simply because you didn't like how the previous expansions were released (so now suddenly "lack of spoilers for specific rewards for specific content " is somehow "concerning" -and I still don't see how or why it is, because it's nothing out of ordinary).

Quote

If they're not a reward, then why do we have to earn them? The fact they're extra content is inconsequential. It can be both content and a reward. 

Fishing in itself isn't a reward either and yet we still have to unlock it. Access to warclaw skin wvw track also isn't a reward in itself, but instead its contents are (there's was a whole thread about this somewhere in WvW subforum btw) and yet you also have to unlock it with gold before you can go for the rewards. Similarly, you need to unlock them because devs decided that's how it will work because they don't want them unlocked for everyone by default. And then you can play through content or complete what you need to complete to get rewards you want to get. I don't think there's much more to say here in reasonable amount of time and text than just "because that's how it works".

Edited October 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

40 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it means we look at the previous releases, which automatically makes it based on something specific, related strictly to teasers/reveals for expansion releases of this particular game by this particular dev instead of just being my randomized opinion like you've tried to suggest, simply because you didn't like how the previous expansions were released (so now suddenly "lack of spoilers for specific rewards for specific content " is somehow "concerning" -and I still don't see how or why it is, because it's nothing out of ordinary).

That has nothing to do with disproving your personal bias in framing your opinion of what should and shouldn't be revealed, Anet can always decide to change behavior. Regardless, I've already proven we can see specific rewards from specific activities and that's fine by them as they've done so. Your mental acrobatics regardless (ps they explain exactly what the items are for. You pretend what we're shown is useless, but I'd say a hover over an item, is pretty big in terms of specific details, that means they're willing to show actual game content, so another item from a different activity is not out of the picture).

 

Quote

Fishing in itself isn't a reward either and yet we still have to unlock it. Access to warclaw skin wvw track also isn't a reward in itself, but instead its contents are (there's was a whole thread about this somewhere in WvW subforum btw) and yet you also have to unlock it with gold before you can go for the rewards. Similarly, you need to unlock them because devs decided that's how it will work because they don't want them unlocked for everyone by default. And then you can play through content or complete what you need to complete to get rewards you want to get. I don't think there's much more to say here in reasonable amount of time and text than just "because that's how it works".

You're sidestepping that fishing is an activity that yields rewards. We have a direct example of them showing the reward item, verbatim, so it wouldn't be out of the question for them to even show us strike mission reward items. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. The mastery is a reward, though. You get a privilege in exchange for time spent earning MPs and XP. 

Definition of reward:

"something given or received in return or recompense for service, merit, hardship, etc." 

And the "etc" there makes this definition VERY generic. But there's been players who have complained about earning masteries enough that you could argue that it's a hardship, without exploiting "etc" 

So even the mastery reveals is Anet spoiling yet more rewards. Hps as they are can easily be framed as a hardship, beause earning some can be tough, so the elite specs are arguably a reward. 

You can have your opinions, but any sane person knows I'm right. You can die on this hill continuing to argue with me, but your statement about them never revealing rewards for any other content before it's released is outright false. I may not continue to engage you further, because right now, I feel like I'm arguing with a child. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

(ps they explain exactly what the items are for.

Yes, as I wrote multiple times in this thread, we know "it's used for cooking and can be traded with npc". Which -as I also already said above- the equivalent of showing a strike token/currency and saying "you can use them to trade for rewards". For some reason that's one of the things you've skipped in my previous posts. For clarity, here it is:

47 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What we see is a material that in itself tells/gives us nothing (if we had that material in the game right now in our inventories, it's completely worthless by itself. As for the fact that fishing by default at least gives some fish materials... was there ever any reasonable doubt about that?) -all we know from it is that you use it in cooking or trade for rewards. I guess if they told us "you get tokens/strike currency that can be traded for rewards", it would be enough of a response for you/OP? Is this really what you mean by all that talk about revealing the rewards?

 

You've just added a whole new quote (still not the one from above) with twice the amount of text there was at the moment of me responding here. Anyways, you try to claim here that I'm "sidestepping that fishing is an activity that yields rewards.", but how can I "sidestep it" and say what I already quoted above at the same time? Seems like I've directly responded to it instead of somehow "sidestepping".

Edited October 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758