Yet Another AFK Farming Post...

[Avenrise.3592]

...essentially because I was directed to do so by Support! I was informed that Support are just customer service and have no way to contact game devs which is absolutely fine, it's normal for many businesses but I was pointed towards the forums to maybe get dev eyes on the issue again. Just be aware that I am not here to personally debate the issue with other players although I'm sure others will for me (and no doubt the conversation will lead to getting the thread locked!)

 

Posted to support:

I am seeing more and more complaints on both the forums, on Reddit and even on GW2 Twitch streams regarding the 'AFK farmers' (and semi-afk'ers just paying attention to chat) plaguing the game and really feel that this could become a much larger issue for GW2 going forward. We have already had the massive disruption to the PvP ladder recently and that escalated from something small to something game breaking. I honestly feel that AFK farming needs addressing ASAP to stop it impacting the game more than it currently is. They are an eyesore and new 'afk farming spots' are popping up all over the game now because many see it as acceptable.

 

Is there any way to, well, encourage those that could change the situation in some way to discuss what could be done in a meeting? Even if it's just a set of rules that could be officially laid out for the community as opposed to major changes of mechanics? (although personally I feel something does need to change with regards to player summons but that's just me). I just feel this is a problem that is going to escalate pretty quickly if the issue is not addressed and having that feeling for a game you're attached to you have a responsibility to speak out.

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

From the forum Library (at which no one looks), aforementioned official 'set of rules':

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014185033

[Kurrilino.2706]

A-Net is already addressing the issue

 

They suspending accounts that are afk farming. Those suspensions getting longer and longer every time they receive a penalty.

 

Standing farming itself is perfectly legal and supported by A-Net

 

What else is to discuss here on a weekly base?

 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

From the forum Library (at which no one looks), aforementioned official 'set of rules':

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014185033

Yeah, and no one uses the search function either which, in this case, would have yielded the numerous threads on the topic that already exist with the same complaints.

[Obtena.7952]

You know ... I'm confident that THIS will be the thread. It's the one. 

[Veprovina.4876]

Every AFK necro is shaving off 150-200 gold off your next Gift of Fortune so be thankful for them!

[PetrLivingLife.8516]

Yep, there is definitely increase and definitely some are actually botting. I just report as many as I can if I think they are botting. I try not to report (semi)afk people. I would agree with minions (including turrets)  being more technically limited based on some metric.

[Avenrise.3592]

So the ToS is a lot more vague than it needs to be. Essentially so long as someone can respond to a GM whispering them they are good to go. This, in my opinion, needs changing. Yes from a technical standpoint they are not AFK. But are they actually 'playing' the game to get those drops? THIS is what needs some clarification. 

ANET are not doing nothing, I know that but I don't agree that they have a hand on the situation purely because of the amount of new farmers I'm seeing popping up all over the places and in new maps. The amount of chatter on the subject over the past few weeks/months has increased also.

To Veprovina specifically- material prices go down which means new players get less gold for their time not to mention those of us that don't want Legendaries. In addition this means you play the game less to get the Legendary... not sure that's something that's good for the game, are you?

To those that are saying it's pointless posting about it no it really isn't. You cannot enact change by being quiet on a topic, you have to speak up. In this specific case I put in a Support ticket and was directly encouraged to make a forum post as devs 'often' read the forums for feedback. There's not a lot more I can personally do here, I don't wave my own personal ban hammer above my head. Lets just get more eyes on the problem, have a discussion and then see what happens.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Thereon.3495

[Kurrilino.2706]

22 minutes ago, Thereon.3495 said:

So the ToS is a lot more vague than it needs to be. Essentially so long as someone can respond to a GM whispering them they are good to go. This, in my opinion, needs changing. Yes from a technical standpoint they are not AFK. But are they actually 'playing' the game to get those drops? THIS is what needs some clarification. 

 

 

Actually the ToS needs to be lees restrictive.

 

I also don't get the clarification what playing is.

A-Net clearly states that you play as you want. If people think it's a great investment of their spare time to just stand around and do almost nothing, it's their business.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it illegal.

 

Important is that AFK farming is getting punished, which i can testify that it is.

My second account was suspended 2 times since i didn't feel like answering the GM.

Later on i contacted the support and they got a bloody nose since i record my play sessions.

But regardless of that, they suspended a suspicious account

Edited October 18, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Kurrilino.2706]

14 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Every AFK necro is shaving off 150-200 gold off your next Gift of Fortune so be thankful for them!

 

I absolutely agree.

As cheaper the mats are as more fun people have.

At least the ones playing the game as intended.

 

If the stock market simulators going down, so be it. this is not the intended use of the game

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Be aware:  The CS Team advises to post on the forums any request they can not directly effectuate.  It's a stock response when it's outside their bailiwick.

[Veprovina.4876]

54 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I absolutely agree.

As cheaper the mats are as more fun people have.

At least the ones playing the game as intended.

 

If the stock market simulators going down, so be it. this is not the intended use of the game

 

Right? And if it ever becomes a problem, it will kinda fix itself.

 

I mean, if it ever becomes cheaper to buy mats on TP instead of shipments, they'll just stop farming them, not flooding the TP with mats anymore until it becomes profitable again.

 

Idk what the big deal is, i used to report them and all but... Let them farm.

Well, unless they use bots, some lines shouldn't get crossed.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

19 hours ago, Thereon.3495 said:

...essentially because I was directed to do so by Support! I was informed that Support are just customer service and have no way to contact game devs which is absolutely fine, it's normal for many businesses but I was pointed towards the forums to maybe get dev eyes on the issue again. Just be aware that I am not here to personally debate the issue with other players although I'm sure others will for me (and no doubt the conversation will lead to getting the thread locked!)

If support advises you to open a thread here, things are a little different. They know their own official documents and the rules they have to follow. In addition, every of these threads is a threat to the game's reputation. The forums are visible to the entire internet, without restrictions - at least that part we use (except for national barriers). So the big question for me is, why would they advise something that could contribute to lower sales-income?

The only thing I can imagine is something like a topic-count requirement. For example, we do our next ban-wave once the pile of complaints has reached 1k topics. Maybe there is an internal rule, which works with the frequency this topic pops up. But on the other hand, the forums are not representative for the game's community - we are a fraction of a fraction, the few of us who dare to post content.

Community wise, the problem cannot be solved. You cannot reason with the players in question. For them, every complaining person is an ungrateful dimwit, who does not appreciate lower TP prices for materials (see above). Looking from that perspective, there is absolutely no excuse why everyone else is not botting XD. But if we do that, they can cut the development-costs massively, lay off everyone but one office and make GW2 a browser-game. You log in once, set up your characters with their tasks, return and count the loot. We have tons of these games on the market. They make good profit and are popular. But most of us did not come here to play browser-game with a Guildwars skin.

The previous attempts also mostly failed - Karmic Retribution. We have a few maps that still give proper loot. The rest only gives proper loot if you deploy your characters for entire days :S. Ruined the experience for normal players. 

In the past we did have a system that worked to counter this kind of (ab)use, DR. But it does not seem to work with the current problem. Else the phenomenon would not exist, because it would reward nothing. As many good old features, it probably needs a rework to apply to our current situation. Those who benefit from the 'system' will come and tell that DR works totally fine and should not be touched. In fact they might even advise to remove it and let the players decide on their own, how they want to 'play' the game. 

And then there is the problem of monetization, what we mostly ignore on the forums. Those who use the system could reason with this, but they never do. "I keep this game alive with my 50 PAID accounts!"  Every bot, every afk-farmer can only operate with a paid account. F2P accounts do not work as they cannot trade/mail items. The moment the abuse is prevented, we lose those customers. We do not have monthly subscriptions. The game only runs by game-purchases and the gemstore. The drastic increase of afk/bot-accounts may have lead to a lot of income.

This is basically the progress so far. What we still lack is a proper solution. 

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

What we still lack is a proper solution. 

This assumes that a problem exists.  Seems like Anet doesn't believe there to be one.  Which is the only opinion that really matters, to be fair.

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

The only thing I can imagine is something like a topic-count requirement. For example, we do our next ban-wave once the pile of complaints has reached 1k topics. Maybe there is an internal rule, which works with the frequency this topic pops up. But on the other hand, the forums are not representative for the game's community - we are a fraction of a fraction, the few of us who dare to post content.

 

Community wise, the problem cannot be solved. You cannot reason with the players in question. For them, every complaining person is an ungrateful dimwit, who does not appreciate lower TP prices for materials (see above). Looking from that perspective, there is absolutely no excuse why everyone else is not botting XD. But if we do that, they can cut the development-costs massively, lay off everyone but one office and make GW2 a browser-game. You log in once, set up your characters with their tasks, return and count the loot. We have tons of these games on the market. They make good profit and are popular. But most of us did not come here to play browser-game with a Guildwars skin.

 

 

Oh Boy, this is flat out tinfoil hat material.

 

If anyone is destroying GW2 it's the trade market flippers.

And even that has no impact on the game itself at all.

[Kurrilino.2706]

9 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

 

This is basically the progress so far. What we still lack is a proper solution. 

 

Did it ever occur to you that there is actually NO problem?

[Tyncale.1629]

The other day I noticed a bunch of engineers popping up simultaneously at the minotaurs(very fast respawn) in Desert Highlands, immediately pulling out all their turrets. I was farming the minotaurs there for my Slayer achievement. It had occurred to me that these Minotaurs drop a lot of Bloods, also Powerful Blood which sells for a nifty 27 silver.  At the spot there was also a static spawn of  a Veteran Minotaur, I guess they have a better chance of dropping the expensive bloods.  In any case, after 2 minutes or so all the Engineers disappeared, I guess they figured it was not worth it with another person swooping up all the Minotaurs. 🙂 

 

First time I really saw it happen before my eyes. I mean I see a lone Minionmancer here and there idling about, but this was obviously a farming spot for someone who uses several accounts to farm bloods.  

 

I also wonder how well the Diminishing Returns feature works: I was there for about an hour and the bloods did not really seem to be dropping less. 

[mythical.6315]

Reduced prices also impact legitimate players trying to sell items. 

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

2 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Did it ever occur to you that there is actually NO problem?

If there is no problem. Where do all the threads come from? And why did the support advise to write one?

Edited October 18, 2021 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[Bobbeh Kai.5476]

All the Devs have to do is have area timers. The longer a character doesn't move the more delayed the spawns around then become, this is multiplicative if there are more players doing it. 

 

Say player x is farming an area by semi afk or afk farming.... Well if they character never moves they will start to incur a increased timer for spawn timers. Eventually that timer will get so large that mobs will for all purposes cease spawning. 

 

People could still semi afk farm but instead of sitting their character down in a single spot for countless hours they would need to come up with a rotation of spots and a schedule of when to move that would minimize the impact of the spawn timer penalty. 

 

I would recommend starting at 30 minutes, for characters to be considered afk/semi-afk. This also could not be defeated by simple mouse movements or a small movement every few minutes. Basically the timer would count for a not so small area of say 50 to 100ft. 

 

So the people who are standing still but at their computer (stupid loophole) while manually clicking their skills... Could still do that but they would have to move to a different area every 30 minutes. Otherwise spawns would start to slow down. 

[Bobbeh Kai.5476]

2 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

If there is no problem. Where do all the threads come from? And why did the support advise to write one?

A certain percentage of the community thinks it isn't a problem because they do it while at work, or school, or while playing other games. They are 'semi-afk', casting their own spells and watching the game on a second monitor. This means they aren't breaking the tos/eula. They certainly are breaking the spirit of the agreement but not the specific wording. 

 

The rest of us find their behavior wrong and problematic. Thus the debate continues. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

54 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Reduced prices also impact legitimate players trying to sell items. 

 

^^^ This is the part that always makes me laugh. No one seems to consider the impact that it has on real farmers. Buyers never think of sellers. There are always two sides of the equation. The harm that forum goers don't seem to get is on the other sellers. Note, I am not a farmer so don't have a dog in this show, but the forums quite often are one sided and only think and reply from the buying side which I do have issue with. Having known farmers in this game that was their biggest complaint and why some left. 

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 hours ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

If there is no problem. Where do all the threads come from? And why did the support advise to write one?

 

They just told you to go away and post your problems out of their zone.

 

If A-net would see their Eula/TOS as wrong, they would change it.

If you guys complain about someone obeying the laws and following the rules, i am not sure who the creator of problems is.

 

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Reduced prices also impact legitimate players trying to sell items. 

 

Oh geez that breaks my heart.

Just give me a sec, i need a tissue to dry my tears.

Someone who wants to sell to people more expensive than the others is affected by lower prices.

 

Ever thought about playing the game as intended and not as a farming simulator?

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 hours ago, Bobbeh Kai.5476 said:

So the people who are standing still but at their computer (stupid loophole) while manually clicking their skills... Could still do that but they would have to move to a different area every 30 minutes. Otherwise spawns would start to slow down. 

 

Well, A-Net advertises their game as you play as you want.

Those guys obey all rules and laws. This is why A-Net is perfectly fine with how things are.

Otherwise they would change it.

 

Why do you guys always fight upstream when everyone else is nicely cruising downstream.

Those guys do nothing wrong and still you guys want to punish them so badly..... for what exactly?