Yet Another AFK Farming Post...

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Rogue.8235]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

You are dead wrong.

I am talking about Code of Conduct rule:

7. You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations in connection with your use of the Services.

(Both the Washingon State and the Constitution state someone being innocent until proven otherwhise beyond any doubt)

3. In connection with our Services, you may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language

(Accusing someone being AFK farmer without any evidence triggers at least those keywords)

In short, when you run around, calling random people AFK farmers without any evidence, you are not just violating 2 rules of conduct, you also violate federal and local law.

This is why A-Net closes those AFK threads relatively fast.

 

So, allegations are not the same as a finding of guilt.  If it was, then no one could ever be accused of a crime ever.  This is beyond ridiculous.  Findings and allegations are two completely different things.

Reporting someone via the in-game tool is not defamatory.  because it has no bearing on their reputation.  You are not announcing it to the world, but reporting privately to proper authorities.  However, when identifying someone on the forum, it is defamatory.  The forum is publicly available subject to public participation.

Reporting someone in-game is not hateful.  I can't believe I actually have to explain this one.  Reporting, in itself, is not hateful because it can be done regardless of any emotional state or directed intent.  If something is suspicious, a player just clicks the option to report and that is all.  If reporting is inherently hateful, then no one could report or accuse anyone of anything, else it would be a hate crime.  Again, beyond ridiculous.

As well, you completely did not read that the Code of Conduct is, in no way, legally binding.  Only the User Agreement is legally binding.   You are referring to a document that has no authority.

 

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Well here we go, i never at any time called PvP a fraudulent activity, you just make stuff up.

 

I only point out that PvP in general violates the Code of Conduct.

At no time did i claim it violates local or federal law.

As long as they don't change it or somehow include that the point of a PvP match is to try to win, PvP remains illegal

 

First of all, you state that it's illegal which, by definition, means it violates statutory law.  

Also, you have no understanding of law and administrative regulations.  You claim that playing PvP is inherently match manipulation.  However, match manipulation as defined by the Code of Conduct, which refers to the User Agreement, which refers to the R.C.W., defines match manipulation as fraudulent activity.

Thus, by calling the mere act of participating in PvP an act of match manipulation, you are, indeed, calling it a fraudulent activity.

Moreover, PvP does not violate the Code of Conduct, as it explicitly refers to the User Agreement which explicitly refers to the R.C.W. which explicitly defines cheating and fraud.

 

I seriously hope you never opt for pro se representation ever in your life.

 

[Bollocks.4078]

13 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

It is not automated they are actively pressing spacebar with their toes.

 

Yes, it sounds like automated farming.  It does not sound like they are controlling the char, just occasionally casting minions.  They are actively reading a book or studying for a cert.  It sounds like the char is farming autonomously with with minimal input from the person.

 

11 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

By tapping my toes on the spacebar and enter key

 

That doesn't prove you are actively controlling your char.  Just sounds like you are occasionally casting minions and letting your necro farm autonomously.  Am I wrong?  You said spacebar casts "rise" skill.  What does enter do?  Is GS4 on auto cast?  I'm pretty sure you've said in another thread they you have GS4 on auto cast.  It sounds like you are trying to pretend what you are doing is legit when it is actually against the rules.

 

 

[evlover.6270]

20 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

Lol, this is what you do in your spare time?

 Yes, because I care about keeping the game enjoyable. Clearly you didn't even read my post properly as you quoted it twice while quoting someone else in between and you're just looking for stuff to react on. But it's obvious you only care about defending your own behaviour by looking for loopholes, reacting on everyone that says something against it and using the code of conduct/laws in a way they're not intended.

Like, you say reporting someone for afk farming triggers "defamatory" and "hateful".. but that has nothing to do with it. They are talking about "In connection with our Services, you may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language". Reporting people for something is not the same as being offensive in chat against someone, you can just report them in peace without ever engaging in an argument with them ingame. And about your innocent until proven otherwise argument crap, ofcourse that applies, but if you suspect someone is breaking rules, you're always allowed to report them because as a player you can never know for 100%. Only the devs with access to IP's and account data can verify and take action based on the info from the ingame report, or with additional info like recordings. 

Anyways, have fun playing the game your way for as long as it lasts. People that were MM'ing in pvp are always convinced they won't get caught either and 83 got banned earlier this month as well. Just don't spam the forums about being banned for no reason when they get around to cleaning up afk-farmers 😉 

[Strider Pj.2193]

40 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

Is GS4 on auto cast?  I'm pretty sure you've said in another thread they you have GS4 on auto cast.  It sounds like you are trying to pretend what you are doing is legit when it is actually against the rules.

ok…. So the poster you are quoting spouts some nonsense that I want no part in addressing.  (Personally I believe he is trying futilely to be a Devil’s Advocate, this not being worth our time)

 

But in effect, by stating what you said about auto casting would mean that no one, any where, could use ‘auto cast’.  Thus making Anets inclusion of it effectively a trap.  Which, it’s not.

 

Auto cast is an effective use of a tool that Anet has provided us.  It can be used in many different applications.

 

As has been said by multiple posters, Anet allows inattentive farming.  There has been clarification made in their posts.

 

That doesn’t mean you can’t report them.  Because we can’t make the decision, but we need to leave Anet to make it.

 

Making threads here is a fools errand.

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Strider Pj.2193

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

That doesn't prove you are actively controlling your char.  Just sounds like you are occasionally casting minions and letting your necro farm autonomously.  Am I wrong?  You said spacebar casts "rise" skill.  What does enter do?  Is GS4 on auto cast?  I'm pretty sure you've said in another thread they you have GS4 on auto cast.  It sounds like you are trying to pretend what you are doing is legit when it is actually against the rules.

 

I guess you have mistaken me with someone else, i don't even play GS on my reaper, i play scepter and this is on auto attack

My enter key is for the Bone Minions if that helps you somehow.

 

So would you be so kind explaining me how this is against the rules?

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, evlover.6270 said:

 Yes, because I care about keeping the game enjoyable. Clearly you didn't even read my post properly as you quoted it twice while quoting someone else in between and you're just looking for stuff to react on. But it's obvious you only care about defending your own behaviour by looking for loopholes, reacting on everyone that says something against it and using the code of conduct/laws in a way they're not intended.

Like, you say reporting someone for afk farming triggers "defamatory" and "hateful".. but that has nothing to do with it. They are talking about "In connection with our Services, you may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language". Reporting people for something is not the same as being offensive in chat against someone, you can just report them in peace without ever engaging in an argument with them ingame. And about your innocent until proven otherwise argument crap, ofcourse that applies, but if you suspect someone is breaking rules, you're always allowed to report them because as a player you can never know for 100%. Only the devs with access to IP's and account data can verify and take action based on the info from the ingame report, or with additional info like recordings. 

Anyways, have fun playing the game your way for as long as it lasts. People that were MM'ing in pvp are always convinced they won't get caught either and 83 got banned earlier this month as well. Just don't spam the forums about being banned for no reason when they get around to cleaning up afk-farmers 😉 

 

I don't get you obsession with me getting banned.

Neither do i play PvP or will i be banned at all.

 

I had 2 suspensions where i didn't feel like answering the anet employee but right after contacting customer support it was released immediately. Since then they leave me alone.

 

For your first point, the Code of Conduct is rellevant at all time. As soon as you turn the game on, you use the Service described 

in the rule of Conduct. As soon as you accuse someone of something without anything, you violate the rules.

 

I have the feeling you really get me wrong. I am on your guys side.

AFK and Botting needs to be removed.

But with that said, it needs to be proven that someone does something wrong.

And this won't happen in a community forum

[Kurrilino.2706]

12 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

First of all, you state that it's illegal which, by definition, means it violates statutory law.  

Also, you have no understanding of law and administrative regulations.  You claim that playing PvP is inherently match manipulation.  However, match manipulation as defined by the Code of Conduct, which refers to the User Agreement, which refers to the R.C.W., defines match manipulation as fraudulent activity.

Thus, by calling the mere act of participating in PvP an act of match manipulation, you are, indeed, calling it a fraudulent activity.

Moreover, PvP does not violate the Code of Conduct, as it explicitly refers to the User Agreement which explicitly refers to the R.C.W. which explicitly defines cheating and fraud.

 

I seriously hope you never opt for pro se representation ever in your life.

 

 

You really put lots of energy into twisting what i said even adding words i never said.

I would perceive that as absolutely dishonest.

 

 

I just point out that the wording in rule 23 makes players actively playing PvP violate the rules of conduct.

It also shows that you don't really read what i write. I don't have to define what match manipulation is since it's clearly written in the rules of conduct.

I merely point out that manipulating the outcome of a match is trying to win and trying to lose if the purpose of a match is not declared and the natural state is a draw. Beside that an action like winning or losing would alter the leaderboards in rated PvP which is also violating the rules.

I just like how the rules of conduct are written because they just assume everyone tries to win 

All this has nothing to do with fraudulent behavior at all neither from Anet or the players.

My commends of federal and local law points to a completely different issue

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706

[Bollocks.4078]

1 hour ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

ok…. So the poster you are quoting spouts some nonsense that I want no part in addressing.  (Personally I believe he is trying futilely to be a Devil’s Advocate, this not being worth our time)

 

But in effect, by stating what you said about auto casting would mean that no one, any where, could use ‘auto cast’.  Thus making Anets inclusion of it effectively a trap.  Which, it’s not.

 

Auto cast is an effective use of a tool that Anet has provided us.  It can be used in many different applications.

 

As has been said by multiple posters, Anet allows inattentive farming.  There has been clarification made in their posts.

 

That doesn’t mean you can’t report them.  Because we can’t make the decision, but we need to leave Anet to make it.

 

Making threads here is a fools errand.

 

 

Are you purposely trying to twist what I'm saying?  I'm not at all saying that auto cast itself is wrong.  It does depend on how it's used as defined in the policy on Unattended Gameplay.  It is against the rules to use auto cast to automate farming.

 

"As a general policy, ANY form of unattended gameplay is prohibited in Guild Wars 2. This includes:

• The use of auto-casting abilities to farm while not at your computer or not actively playing the game."

 

The way I see it the "not actively playing the game" part totally applies here.  Their use of the auto cast function seems to be in violation of this rule.

[Strider Pj.2193]

4 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

Are you purposely trying to twist what I'm saying?  I'm not at all saying that auto cast itself is wrong.  It does depend on how it's used as defined in the policy on Unattended Gameplay.  It is against the rules to use auto cast to automate farming.

 

"As a general policy, ANY form of unattended gameplay is prohibited in Guild Wars 2. This includes:

• The use of auto-casting abilities to farm while not at your computer or not actively playing the game."

 

The way I see it the "not actively playing the game" part totally applies here.  Their use of the auto cast function seems to be in violation of this rule.

But do you KNOW that?  
 

I’ll answer that:  No.  I’ll defer to you as to your intent regarding auto cast.  I definitely concede your point as to what I quoted.  I don’t know what you meant.

 

But to post here, and create threads, (and I understand this isn’t your thread) makes no sense.  
 

What DOES make sense is ‘report and move on’.  Let Anet sort it out.  
 

It’s up to them to decide what being truly ‘not actively playing the game’ means.

[Bollocks.4078]

3 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

But do you KNOW that?  
 

I’ll answer that:  No.  I’ll defer to you as to your intent regarding auto cast.  I definitely concede your point as to what I quoted.  I don’t know what you meant.

 

But to post here, and create threads, (and I understand this isn’t your thread) makes no sense.  
 

What DOES make sense is ‘report and move on’.  Let Anet sort it out.  
 

It’s up to them to decide what being truly ‘not actively playing the game’ means.

 

So based on what they described you think they are fully actively playing the game then?  I'm not at all convinced.

We all know report and move on is what we do in game.  We all know how ineffective it is and why which is why people vent about it and discuss it on the forums.

[Strider Pj.2193]

2 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

So based on what they described you think they are fully actively playing the game then?  I'm not at all convinced.

We all know report and move on is what we do in game.  We all know how ineffective it is and why which is why people vent about it and discuss it on the forums.

I don’t take time to worry about whether they are ‘fully actively playing the game’. If that was the standard, then 75% of who shows up at world bosses would be banned…..

 

Whether I think it or not is of no consequence.  And quite frankly, if Anet goes around and bans people by what others ‘think’ they will have a really poorly populated game.  (And yes, I know you aren’t calling for those bans)

[Bollocks.4078]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I guess you have mistaken me with someone else, i don't even play GS on my reaper, i play scepter and this is on auto attack

My enter key is for the Bone Minions if that helps you somehow.

 

So would you be so kind explaining me how this is against the rules?

 

Ok, maybe I was mistake about GS4.  My bad.  So what skill is on auto cast then?  Using auto cast to farm while not actively playing the game is against the rules.  I don't see how what you have described can possibly count as actively playing the game.  For the record, here are some things you did say:

 

"Mostly it does auto attack...."  <-- sounds like automated farming

"If i decide to park a Necro somehwere and assign auto attack to spawn minions, i still control the char 100%"  <-- no, you are letting the char control itself

"...most of the time the char does it's auto attack and here and there i tap the spacebar with my feet up the table."  <-- sounds like automated farming, not actively playing

 

I had asked you this question in another thread which you never answered.  Care to answer it now?

-- Earlier you said 'I am well aware how idle and auto kicking works since i am a veteran standing farmer."  So if you are actively playing why would idle and auto kicking even come into play?

[Cuks.8241]

19 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Well, the issue you critize is directly related to A-Net's rules of conduct which dictates what is allowed and what is not.

Sadly the rules that apply most are enforced by federal law. A-Net's hand are more or less tied in this particular issue.

The problem is that A-Net would have to prove beyond doubt that person X is AFK or uses 3rd party equipent.

Since this is incredible difficult, they practice to whispering person X and only suspend when not answering.

During this suspension, Player X can contest the suspension and the account will be released again.

 

This is as good as it gets and this is why it's so rare that an account is getting banned

 

 

That is why just adding a line in the code of conduct is useless if you can't uphold it with a certain degree of success and ease.

A much better approach would therefore be a mechanistic approach and there are plenty suggestions around. Summons, pet dmg doesn't contribute to kill, much stricter diminishing returns on drops in an area(there is really no need to farm mobs in this game and those few achiev items that are not 100 % drop can be excluded)...

[Kurrilino.2706]

16 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

That is why just adding a line in the code of conduct is useless if you can't uphold it with a certain degree of success and ease.

A much better approach would therefore be a mechanistic approach and there are plenty suggestions around. Summons, pet dmg doesn't contribute to kill, much stricter diminishing returns on drops in an area(there is really no need to farm mobs in this game and those few achiev items that are not 100 % drop can be excluded)...

 

I more or less agree.

This has to be dealt with in game, not by rules of conduct or forums.

 

Just out of interest for you point of view,

A-Net has this topic on their forum like every day. Why do you think is that, that they leave everything like it is?

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

A-Net has this topic on their forum like every day. Why do you think is that, that they leave everything like it is?

Because Anet doesn't see this as a problem. 

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

Ok, maybe I was mistake about GS4.  My bad.  So what skill is on auto cast then?  Using auto cast to farm while not actively playing the game is against the rules.  I don't see how what you have described can possibly count as actively playing the game.  For the record, here are some things you did say:

 

"Mostly it does auto attack...."  <-- sounds like automated farming

"If i decide to park a Necro somehwere and assign auto attack to spawn minions, i still control the char 100%"  <-- no, you are letting the char control itself

"...most of the time the char does it's auto attack and here and there i tap the spacebar with my feet up the table."  <-- sounds like automated farming, not actively playing

 

I had asked you this question in another thread which you never answered.  Care to answer it now?

-- Earlier you said 'I am well aware how idle and auto kicking works since i am a veteran standing farmer."  So if you are actively playing why would idle and auto kicking even come into play?

 

I autocast Scepter but you kinda missed the Standing Farming development over the last 5 years or so.

 

I or you don't have to have an opinion about this topic since A-Net released a statement 

that directly said Autocasting skills while standing around is totally cool with them.

 

This and nothing else is of interest for me

 

Beside that it is also irrelevant what you think AFk or unattended gameplay is, since this is also in the rules 

directly written and named Policy: Unattended Gameplay.

 

So i am not AFK and do not participate in unattended gameplay.

What the kitten brings you to the conclusion that i am the one doing wrong?

 

Before you answer that, i remind you that your personal opinion is irrelevant since we have 

to obey the rules of conduct and user agreement and nothing else

 

 

 

 

[Kurrilino.2706]

14 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Because Anet doesn't see this as a problem. 

 

This is exactly how i see it.

No idea why people try so hard swimming upstream

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

"...most of the time the char does it's auto attack and here and there i tap the spacebar with my feet up the table."  <-- sounds like automated farming, not actively playing

 

I had asked you this question in another thread which you never answered.  Care to answer it now?

-- Earlier you said 'I am well aware how idle and auto kicking works since i am a veteran standing farmer."  So if you are actively playing why would idle and auto kicking even come into play?

 

I absolutely care to answer your questions at any time.

So what about you go and find for all of us the official rules for "active playing", to have a nice framework to discuss this topic.

 

For the last part of the question, why do you assume because i know how idle and auto kicking works, that i am affected by it?

This is like accusing a random person of being a thief just because this person is aware of property laws

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Some information:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-a-clear-statement-re-AFK-farming/6160293

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-a-clear-statement-re-AFK-farming/6161098

and this pretty much definitively:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-a-clear-statement-re-AFK-farming/6161450

(attention to bolded section)

[Kurrilino.2706]

23 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Some information:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-a-clear-statement-re-AFK-farming/6160293

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-a-clear-statement-re-AFK-farming/6161098

and this pretty much definitively:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-a-clear-statement-re-AFK-farming/6161450

(attention to bolded section)

 

Yep, this pretty much sums it up.

No idea why there is a daily thread about afk farming.

 

Farming with your pet/minion is cool as long as you are not AFK.

If you respond to a GM everything is cool anyways.

[Bollocks.4078]

47 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I absolutely care to answer your questions at any time.

So what about you go and find for all of us the official rules for "active playing", to have a nice framework to discuss this topic.

 

For the last part of the question, why do you assume because i know how idle and auto kicking works, that i am affected by it?

This is like accusing a random person of being a thief just because this person is aware of property laws

 

 

Then why does it seem like you are avoiding answering all my questions.  Why mention idle and auto kicking if it isn't relevant?

 

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I autocast Scepter but you kinda missed the Standing Farming development over the last 5 years or so.

 

That doesn't answer the question.  "Scepter" is not a skill.  Which scepter skill do you autocast?

Quote

I or you don't have to have an opinion about this topic since A-Net released a statement 

that directly said Autocasting skills while standing around is totally cool with them.

It's OK if you are actively playing the game.  It's not OK if you are not actively playing the game.  Why do you keep avoiding that concept?  The rules say "The use of auto-casting abilities to farm while not at your computer or not actively playing the game."  

 

Quote

Beside that it is also irrelevant what you think AFk or unattended gameplay is, since this is also in the rules directly written and named Policy: Unattended Gameplay.

I never said AFK and my only use of the term "unattended" was in referencing and quoting Anet policy.  The only term I've been using is "automated farming."  Why are you avoiding that?  Do you think what you are doing is automated farming or not?  Please address the automated farming part.

 

 

[Klowdy.3126]

Though it may be annoying, I don't think doing the absolute minimum, while being at the keyboard typing, is against any rule. If people are controlling their characters directly, and even sitting behind their keyboard, they haven't broken any rules. Just kind of a leech.

[Bollocks.4078]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

Yep, this pretty much sums it up.

No idea why there is a daily thread about afk farming.

 

Farming with your pet/minion is cool as long as you are not AFK.

If you respond to a GM everything is cool anyways.

 

Most people are erroneously using the term "AFK farming."  I believe what they are seeing is people using in-game mechanics to set up characters to farm autonomously.  Many posters incorrectly assume that translate to the player being AFK.  Then people latch on to the AFK part to defend it.  Automated farming is against the rules.  AFK or not is irrelevant.

 

Farming with pet/minions/turrets is OK as long as the player is actively playing.  If a player is using those to automate farming that is against the rules.

 

Responding to GM is just how auto farmers avoid getting caught. It's a lot like using a radar detector to know when to slow down to avoid getting caught speeding.  It doesn't prove the player isn't breaking the rules, just that they know how to avoid getting caught.

[Kurrilino.2706]

2 hours ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

Then why does it seem like you are avoiding answering all my questions.  Why mention idle and auto kicking if it isn't relevant?

 

That doesn't answer the question.  "Scepter" is not a skill.  Which scepter skill do you autocast?

It's OK if you are actively playing the game.  It's not OK if you are not actively playing the game.  Why do you keep avoiding that concept?  The rules say "The use of auto-casting abilities to farm while not at your computer or not actively playing the game."  

 

I never said AFK and my only use of the term "unattended" was in referencing and quoting Anet policy.  The only term I've been using is "automated farming."  Why are you avoiding that?  Do you think what you are doing is automated farming or not?  Please address the automated farming part.

 

 

 

I really try to answer all of your questions and dodge anything.

There are just scattered everywhere

 

"Which scepter skill do you autocast?" Number 1

 

"Why mention idle and auto kicking if it isn't relevant?" I answered another question regarding idle and autokick just acknowledging that i know it existst and what it does

 

"The rules say "The use of auto-casting abilities to farm while not at your computer or not actively playing the game."

I thought it's pretty clear by now that i am at the PC and actively playing

 

"Do you think what you are doing is automated farming or not?" Nope, it is not in any kind or shape

 

We good here?

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Kurrilino.2706