Where's Grenth?

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Balthazaar wasn't seeking to end the White Mantle. He was after the Bloodstone for power, remember he was posing as their god not trying to undue them until we arrived on the scene and started causing trouble. He's after power and who can give him power is the one he's interested in. This is literally what he did in living story 3. He's said and acted in a way that shows he only seeks power not allies.

Life and death are a cycle of opposing forces like Yin and Yang. In this cycle both are necessary, but both are opposites since one cannot be dead and alive at the same time. So Dwayna by proxy would be opposed to Dhuum. So if we look at pantheons her son being the opposing god would give her power vs it not being a part of her directly. I'm not saying Dwayna is malicious, more that in these scenarios the god prefers their offspring.

Second I've found no info to confirm that Malchor's love/obsession for Dwayna was ever returned by the god. We still don't have confirmation who's Grenth's father, Malchor is a possibility, though that says nothing to it actually being so.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I wasn't talking about Balthazar's goal but his action's repercussions. Besides that though, he actively went to use the White Mantle and pitted them against Primordus and later used mercenaries instead of using his faithful like he is now. So he does seem to be avoiding using those who worship him. For one reason or another.

Also I think you're painting Balthazar too flat for what little we have to go off of. Though ArenaNet has been poor with frontal presentation throughout... well, tbh, ever, they had always had some depth to their characters, even poorly done ones like Scarlet.

To your life and death bit. I disagree. Also on one cannot be both... That is the literal meaning of undeath. And you literally have nothing to back up the claim that 'gods prefer their offspring'. These are gods we're talking about, they're meant to be alien in thought compared to humans - just as charr, asura, etc. Would be. It's not exactly a biological certainty for beings to hold a preference of blood ties.

And I don't think we've been talking about Malchor. We never heard of Grenth's father's name but know him to be a mortal sculptor, and that Grenth was born half-god. Though there is one line to imply Dwayna held feelings for him:

"When it was done, he asked Dwayna if she favored the image, and weeping, Dwayna allowed him to touch her face, that he might know the precision with which—even blind—he had carved her image."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#Arah:_City_of_the_Gods_and_The_Tragedy_of_Malchor

Why was she weeping?

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Undeath really doesn't address the opposition of the concepts of life and death. Until Zhaitan's demise undeath/risen meant servitude against ones will. If to be alive is to control one's autonomy then death is to have no control. Undeath with autonomy would still be life like the unchained, vs undeath without autonomy the risen would be death. That is more of what the two concepts would mean in this fantasy setting.

"But then, as she knew she must, the goddess Dwayna left and returned to Arah, leaving the sculptor alone." This is the following line, it doesn't confirm she had love for him more mercy for his blindness, by letting him touch her face she could let him know his work was complete.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There have been autonomous undead in gw1. Many Awakened were as were the EotN Orrian undead by all appearances, not to even consider the liches like Zoldark, Fendi Nin, Joko, and Khilbron. And I never said it "answered" anything about life and death being opposites or complements. I said that undeath is literally defined as being both alive but dead which you said is impossible.

Technically, risen aren't undead either. They are Dragon minions and they are all atypical for what they are closest related to.

Just as you can have cold fire you can have living corpses.

And I didn't say that line was any confirmation of Dwayna's feelings. I outright said we have no confirmation on Grenth's father's identity still. I said that it was implication and that all implications put said father as Malchor. Implied, not confirmed. So please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Undead/ Undeath with autonomy is life. First off the literal interpretation of the word means it, un=not dead/death. So whether we're talking ghost of Ascalon, unchained, or other versions of this they are still technically life. The concept of Dhuum/Grenth is comparable to Discworld's Death (which is even noted in the WIKI) they both ruled/rule the underworld a stop between the deceased's final destination. And the reason I bring up Discworld is there's a story about undead seeking to be treated as living. So the concept does translate. Autonomous is a good way to separate life from golum/ animated dead.

[draxynnic.3719]

It's probably more technically accurate that undead are neither dead nor living than to say that they're both.

Incidentally, on Discworld's Death, it's actually part of the Discworld mechanics that Death simply facilitates the transition between life and afterlife, he has no jurisdiction over the latter. Instead, souls go to wherever they believe they'll go. Generally, at most, Death gives a few words of advice before leaving the soul to its own devices.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Yes Death isn't the lord the of the Underworld that's Azrael in the books, but I think in this game the two have somehow been mixed or mix of Hades and Discworld's death is more what Grenth/ Dhuum are.

[Lily.1935]

Something to point out. Grenth was the god of death before the gods and humans came to tyria. We know this because of the lack of evidence of any worshipping of Dhuum in the human history. No statues exist of dhuum on tyria to our knowledge and there is no record of him in Orr or Cantha.

Also we need to know that it is believed that Grenth had a human father, however it must be noted due to the timeline his father would not be anyone we know in the lore.

In another note the god most likely to stand against Balthazar would be lyssa. Grenth has always been fairly indifferent to the plight of humans.

[Ryelis.3508]

@Lily.1935 said:Something to point out. Grenth was the god of death before the gods and humans came to tyria. We know this because of the lack of evidence of any worshipping of Dhuum in the human history. No statues exist of dhuum on tyria to our knowledge and there is no record of him in Orr or Cantha.

Also we need to know that it is believed that Grenth had a human father, however it must be noted due to the timeline his father would not be anyone we know in the lore.

In another note the god most likely to stand against Balthazar would be lyssa. Grenth has always been fairly indifferent to the plight of humans.

Unfortunately, incorrect.

Grenth is known as the first Tyrian born god so he could not have been a god before coming to Tyria, as he wasn't born yet. He also challenged and usurped Dhuum on Tyria at the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance in Orr - the location in which that happened is a PoI in Malchor's Leap.

[xXMapcoXx.9614]

I don't know over there maybe?