The Untamed - new ranger elite spec

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

7 minutes ago, mistsim.2748 said:

Imo, this is mostly useful for large scale fights in WvW where you're bonking 3-5 people at all times. In duels, it should add up as well over time. Very nice trait overall. Didn't see an internal cooldown.

I dunno why he thinks 10% is a problem, Thief gets 10% of crit damage and 20% with Fury. Necro has both 10% from condi and 5% from strike with Reaper. Spellbreaker gets 7% crit damage with offhand dagger, I'm sure there are others. 

10% is a great sustain. I think combining the heal cantrip with Rune of Sanctuary and this trait will be pretty nice.

6 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

It's more of a "Make pets not garbage" agenda, to be honest

Exactly. If it's a choice between having a mediocre pet and no-pet, no-pet looks better on paper and is easier to implement.

But this spec does actually take steps in the right direction. Cautiously optimistic right now.

[anduriell.6280]

37 minutes ago, mistsim.2748 said:

Imo, this is mostly useful for large scale fights in WvW where you're bonking 3-5 people at all times. In duels, it should add up as well over time. Very nice trait overall. Didn't see an internal cooldown.

1s Icd at least in every trait. More in some. 

In WvW the pet will be dead most of the time so no way Jose you can make use of the untamed mechanics (new pet skills) . 

[Levetty.1279]

Looks nice, bit PvP focused but that is to be expected of a bunny thumper inspired spec but will also make it useless when the PvP whine starts. Hope they make it useful in PvE or at the very least fun in open world. Kind of funny how giving the unleashed energy to the pet will actually make most of them do less damage. A couple of weak looking traits too. Still interesting looking spec. Looks like it has lots of interesting synergy and combos. Can't wait to try it out.

 

Main issue I see, especially with how he keeps talking about it being a frontline WvW fighter is that there is nothing that deals wit h the pets being insta nuked in zergs. Even the heal hurts the pet instead of healing it.

[mistsim.2748]

26 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

1s Icd at least in every trait. More in some. 

In WvW the pet will be dead most of the time so no way Jose you can make use of the untamed mechanics (new pet skills) . 

You just swap the pet and use the one that isn't dead. Use bears. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

31 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

1s Icd at least in every trait. More in some. 

In WvW the pet will be dead most of the time so no way Jose you can make use of the untamed mechanics (new pet skills) . 

 

Not sure how much WvW you play, but even core is viable there to a certain scale.  

 

I can see the untamed mechanics being very effective in a lot of different situations, as they are all AoE at the pets location.  In addition, with at least one of them the pet shadowsteps to the target; and shadowstepping is a lot of the reason smokeskale is so good in WvW because it avoids nearly all the pathing problems.  

 

We must also not forget we have things that have been wanted forever now on the ranger itself--boon rip / corrupt and shadowstep.  Meaning smallscale rangers will be frightening, and if you couple that with the specter, you are going to have very, very tough roaming duos.  

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Not sure how much WvW you play, but even core is viable there to a certain scale.  

 

I can see the untamed mechanics being very effective in a lot of different situations, as they are all AoE at the pets location.  In addition, with at least one of them the pet shadowsteps to the target; and shadowstepping is a lot of the reason smokeskale is so good in WvW because it avoids nearly all the pathing problems.  

 

We must also not forget we have things that have been wanted forever now on the ranger itself--boon rip / corrupt and shadowstep.  Meaning smallscale rangers will be frightening, and if you couple that with the specter, you are going to have very, very tough roaming duos.  

I dunno I see the pet staying dead most of the time. In soulbeast smokescale can be used because of the easy revive or worst case scenario the f5 to return the pet to you.

untamed can only send the pet in with the blink but it can not retrieve them. Which means once they are in they are in. Translated to they will die fairly quickly.

 

if you have to play untamed kitting with a longbow, whats the point of the spec in a first instance?

[Ehecatl.9172]

I am pretty satisfied with what I've seen. We're FINALLY getting a teleport on the pet (something I've been advocating for for years now) which will solve a lot of our pathing issues. I also like the Unleashed pet skills. It'll give us more things to do with our pet and take more advantage of pet positioning. I know this spec is designed around the hammer but I think you'd get good results out of the longbow and our new AoE producing pet bombs.

 

I am also amused that we're getting some mechanics I was rather recently told our elite spec could never give us (condi cleanse, boon hate on pet, high pet damage on controlled targets).

 

I am concerned for the pet's survivability though. It seems like Anet went to great lengths to give the ranger tools to survive in a zerg environment but neglected to make sure the pet benefits from those too. This is definitely something to bring up during the beta event. Our pet should benefit from at least some of our survival traits and cantrips.

 

For similar reasons I am not fond of the heal skill. It seems backwards to have a spec focused on empowering the pet and have a heal skill that actively kills the pet at the same time. In its current state I'll probably never use it. But oh well, we have other healing options anyway.

[Levetty.1279]

Actually thinking about it I am disappointed there isn't a way to really buff up the damage our pets can do, still looks like it could be fun though.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

55 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

1s Icd at least in every trait. More in some. 

In WvW the pet will be dead most of the time so no way Jose you can make use of the untamed mechanics (new pet skills) . 

None of the other heal on damage traits in the game have an ICD.

27 minutes ago, mistsim.2748 said:

You just swap the pet and use the one that isn't dead. Use bears. 

Which will then die and put your swap on CD for 60s, meaning your heal skill can't heal you for a whole minute now too.

[Substance E.4852]

6 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

.  Meaning smallscale rangers will be frightening, and if you couple that with the specter, you are going to have very, very tough roaming duos.  

Possibly but thats the problem, we already have that

Core, Druid, and SlB are very solid roamers and do reasonably well in <10 man groups

Unless the hammer hits like an absolute nuclear bomb on par with the Rev hammer, this isn't going to get us a zerg spot anymore than druid heals or soulbeast stance share did because it has the same problem they had, too much personal benefit at the expense of any team synergy

"Rangers need not apply" is going to be the WvW guild moto forever at this rate

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

15 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

untamed can only send the pet in with the blink but it can not retrieve them. Which means once they are in they are in.

This is a glaring issue. You can't call it back. It's unleashed, lol.

I can live with having no access to pet skill 1 to get the leash back because pet skill 1 is rubbish anyway.

[anduriell.6280]

12 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

None of the other heal on damage traits in the game have an ICD.

You are right, restorative strikes doesn’t have icd but it has “the different in every game mode” label,  so it may be the skill is ends up too nerfed in competitive.

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280
Autocorrect doing it’s thing

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

This is a glaring issue. You can't call it back. It's unleashed, lol.

I can live with having no access to pet skill 1 to get the leash back because pet skill 1 is rubbish anyway.

It is not the auto attack, in drakes is the chomp skill which is a life steal.

Untamed needs a way to blink the pet back thou… otherwise pets will stay dead as soon as the untamed gets into “frontlines”

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

Just now, anduriell.6280 said:

You are right, restorative strikes doesn’t have icd but it has “the different in every game mode” label,  so it may be me up too merged in competitive.

I doubt it, it would just adjust the %, perhaps even increased since you are not dealing damage all the time against a lot of mobs in PvE. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

11 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Possibly but thats the problem, we already have that

Core, Druid, and SlB are very solid roamers and do reasonably well in <10 man groups

Unless the hammer hits like an absolute nuclear bomb on par with the Rev hammer, this isn't going to get us a zerg spot anymore than druid heals or soulbeast stance share did because it has the same problem they had, too much personal benefit at the expense of any team synergy

"Rangers need not apply" is going to be the WvW guild moto forever at this rate

IMO:

For Core I don't really want it in a group at all--I personally only run one while roaming or while on truly off-meta kicks.  It brings some amount of damage, but both Druid and Soulbeast are better.

For Druid, yes it can be useful, but only for the immobs.  But, those are destroyed when you get against an actual comp...even something like a duo can be a problem depending on the duo--get a good holosmith, daredevil, or weaver and applying any immob becomes very hard.  

Soulbeast I find the most use in small group situations, especially with stance share (even if limited).  The problem is pet interaction here is selfish, and you have nothing in the way of boon strip or anything to really help your group (i.e. are direct damage only).

For Untamed, I have hope with the boon corrupts, CC's, and pet AoEs that it will be far better in a small group setting.  It my not get us a zerg spot--but what would outside making us into the new scrapper? Even then, having invuln pets or pets that pulse AoE boons probably would get nerfed pretty swiftly and we'd be stuck with Druid all over again.  

Edited October 23, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

3 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

It is not the auto attack, in drakes is the chomp skill which is a life steal.

Untamed needs a way to blink the pet back thou… otherwise pets will stay dead as soon as the untamed gets into “frontlines”

The recall button is there, it's just there is no hotkey displayed on it?

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

The recall button is there, it's just there is no hotkey displayed on it?

Yes in unleash state should  be a “blink back”

probably doesn’t have a key assigned yet.

[mistsim.2748]

17 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

this isn't going to get us a zerg spot anymore than druid heals or soulbeast stance share did

Am I in an alternate reality where people are ignoring the massive amount of boonstrips we'll be doing? In a melee heavy zerg comp, boons strips + massive damage will ensure a slot.

[Obtena.7952]

Wow, Imagine that ... Anet proving people wrong who jumped to the conclusion they should be concerned about pets mobility based on watching a 20 second video. 🤣  😆

As for the spec itself, this shall be awesome. It even continues to support the idea that we mitigate reflects by using melee weapons as well. Another shocker for some people in this thread. Can't wait to see the last shocker for some people when we see Untamed get weapon swap, even though the reveal video didn't demonstrate it. 🙄

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[nerva.7940]

2 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Which will then die and put your swap on CD for 60s, meaning your heal skill can't heal you for a whole minute now too.

Why would he die if you blink him out of the oncoming train? 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Wow, Imagine that ... Anet proving people wrong that jumped to the conclusion they should be concerned about pets mobility based on watching a 20 second video.  😆

 

You've moved the goal posts. We were/are mainly concerned with pathing and being able to hit moving targets. Shadow stepping on initiating combat does not solve that at all, it's just a gap closer. Core Guard has plenty of gap closers and teleports, yet is still considered to have lacklustre mobility, hence Willbreaker. I pointed out how a gap closer is needed for flow of combat in PvE, since waiting for your pet to engage can take an eternity, it is bonus for PvP specs but it does not solve the problems we were referring to. 

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You've moved the goal posts. We were/are mainly concerned with pathing and being able to hit moving targets. 

No goalposts were moved. The concern about hitting moving targets was based on other people watching a 20 second video. I called people out for that because they didn't have the details they needed to make those conclusions. Now those SAME people are 'excited' about the spec. If the things the espec has doesn't solve those problems ... you don't need to tell me because I don't care ... we STILL haven't played the spec. 

See, the thing you don't get is that in EITHER case, I was right. We need to play the spec to conclude things about it. Watching videos has nothing to do with it. Plus, you don't think pet pathing is improved by giving them shadowstep? That's ... interesting. I will leave it at that. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

4 minutes ago, nerva.7940 said:

Why would he die if you blink him out of the oncoming train? 

How would you do that? The pet was already dead, so you swapped to the other bear which incurred a 60s swap penalty. If that bear then dies too, you are locked out of your healing, even if it doesn't the more damage it takes, the less healing you get. If you are in the middle of a push, your pet will likely die.

[nerva.7940]

1 minute ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

How would you do that? The pet was already dead, so you swapped to the other bear which incurred a 60s swap penalty. If that bear then dies too, you are locked out of your healing, even if it doesn't the more damage it takes, the less healing you get. If you are in the middle of a push, your pet will likely die.

I wouldn't use the heal cantrip, and I'd just go double bear. 

[Substance E.4852]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

The concern about hitting moving targets was based on watching a 20 second video.

Except not at all