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Spectre information and trade offs


BobbyT.7192

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https://massivelyop.com/2021/10/21/guild-wars-2-reveals-the-engineers-mechanist-spec-details-next-weeks-beta/

Spoiler

“By utilizing their Shadow Shroud, the specter harnesses the power of shadow magic to debilitate their enemies and preserve the health of their allies. By diving straight into the shadows, they’ve learned to control them. With this new specialization, the thief sacrifices a portion of their initiative pool and gains a new resource called Shadow Force. Siphon replaces Steal, instead granting you the ability to inflict conditions on your foes while generating Shadow Force. Wielding a scepter, the specter hurls bolts of tormenting shadow magic at enemies. The weapon set includes new dual attacks based on your available off-hand weapons, and it delivers potent ranged condition damage to enemies that cross its path. The specter utilizes wells, a mobile method of delivering supportive and offensive playstyles around the battlefield. Each well skill will shadowstep you to your targeted location and then lay the well at your feet, allowing you to harry foes with offensive effects or bolster allies.”

So based on this article that talked about the classes revealed this week.  It talks about some of the features with the spectre.

  1. A portion of the initiative pool get replace with shadow force
  2. Siphon replaces steal, and will inflict condition while generating shadow force
  3. Sceptre will be a condition range weapon
  4. Utilities will be wells, that will also shadow step

Immediately I'm thinking about the Demon hunter in Diablo 3

2 resources to manage, one for offensive skills while other for defensive/support skills. So thieves are sacrificing their offensive capabilities to make room to support. It also seems like they will still have access to stealth, maybe being in stealth will help generate this new resource along with Siphon? 

 

Edited by BobbyT.7192
wording
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Looks like a very cool specc tbh i'll assume we'll be remaining Daredevil in PvP for another 4 years tho 😄

Lowering Initiative will defintly reduce Mobility and the use of weapon abilities but on the bright side, may give thief some real PvE Value here.

im unsure of it in other roles, Now if thats because Daredevils too strong is another question entirely realistically. but yeah i cant rly see a situation where u'd take something like this over Daredevil realistically.. outside PvE Support and that'll be a question of which is stronger.. Scourge or this :P.

Edited by Daddy.8125
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Deadeye is pretty prevalent in PvP at well. Even with its limited mobility (R+S/D) you can move around pretty quick and chaining Mark+Mercy+Mark if you catch someone off guard (boonsteal + daze) you can really do some damage.

Core thief I'm not so sure in PvP but I think in Raids at one point it was meta for a few encounters due to boonshare-steal? 

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55 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Deadeye is pretty prevalent in PvP at well. Even with its limited mobility (R+S/D) you can move around pretty quick and chaining Mark+Mercy+Mark if you catch someone off guard (boonsteal + daze) you can really do some damage.

Core thief I'm not so sure in PvP but I think in Raids at one point it was meta for a few encounters due to boonshare-steal? 

deadeye works rly well in unco-ordinated teams.. or teams that simply dont deal with one properly.

however Far easier to counter by knowledagable characters hence why they tend to dissapear more the higher up the ladder you go.

 

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15 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Lowering Initiative will defintly reduce Mobility and the use of weapon abilities but on the bright side, may give thief some real PvE Value here.

You'll be able to fill your utility bar with 900 range 20-30s CD shadow step thought... The mobility probably won't be hurt that much.

As for "PvE value", it's already there even if it's a ponctual "value". So far, the specter don't add much to this "value".

On another hand, there is a slight possibility that it will offer some value in WvW Zergling by giving the thief a bit more health point and support when the zerg regroup between impacts. Not exactly competitive stuff but looking at how vindicator seemed to have been well receive in this kind of role, there might be a slight chance of seeing the specter make an impression there.

Also, we don't exactly know what the wells do, based on the thief's core tools there might be one that blind and one that cripple/immob. If you add damage on top of that and the mobility of the shadowstep, the specter can end up being a nasty sticky kitten that you have a hard time getting rid of before dying. I wouldn't discard it's PvP potential if I were you.

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34 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

If the wells are support-oriented and not tied to initiative it might see support play in pvp. 

Why would an utility skill be tied to initiative?

Wells usually are 900 range, chrono rune give you quickness (2s) on using a Well and based on the thing they said in the trailer and the tools of the skills they will probably offer some control like cripple and blind and top of the shadow step. The agressiveness potential with this much is already quite interesting. If they add some pulses of damage on top of that your foes will just melt.

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35 minutes ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

The chrono runes are also power and crit based, which may not work well with a condi elite spec.

I don't know if they will make a well rune based around condition damage with necros around.

You chose the damage that you want to do by building wisely. For example, Scourge can be seen as a condi spec yet is quite potent when it come to strike damage, DH don't have much to do with condition damage yet abused trapper runes by burning it's foes to death... etc. The scepter is a sold as a condi based option and, so far, that's all there is to the condi side, nothing will prevent a smart thief player from taking it's daggers and abusing rune of the chronomancer's quickness and powerbased stats.

If you stop yourself at what prejudices the devs give you, you'll never truly do anything in this game. You have to be very open minded and abuse every single possibilities that the devs might have missed out when they designed something. You should never stop yourself at: "Duh! the scepter is said to deal condition damage, the spec won't work well with chronomancer's rune!". Who care about the scepter, you're a thief and your dagger is your best friend, 90% of your strike damage come from dagger AA, cloack and dagger and backstab. Your steal shadow step will be replaced by a Well shadowstep, that's basically the only difference in gameplay for power build.

Edited by Dadnir.5038
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18 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

Maybe the reason the initiative bar got change.

One row will be meant for shadow force.

 😮 Nice one

 

My only concern about this tradeoff, it's make Trickery trailine even more mandatory in PVP/WvW ....

Edited by Jumpel.3972
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4 minutes ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

 😮 Nice one

 

My only concern about this tradeoff, it's make Trickery trailine even more mandatory in PVP/WvW ....

Unless they make predaredness based line 😛

If any elite spec would do it, this would be the one.

38 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You chose the damage that you want to do by building wisely. For example, Scourge can be seen as a condi spec yet is quite potent when it come to strike damage, DH don't have much to do with condition damage yet abused trapper runes by burning it's foes to death... etc. The scepter is a sold as a condi based option and, so far, that's all there is to the condi side, nothing will prevent a smart thief player from taking it's daggers and abusing rune of the chronomancer's quickness and powerbased stats.

If you stop yourself at what prejudices the devs give you, you'll never truly do anything in this game. You have to be very open minded and abuse every single possibilities that the devs might have missed out when they designed something. You should never stop yourself at: "Duh! the scepter is said to deal condition damage, the spec won't work well with chronomancer's rune!". Who care about the scepter, you're a thief and your dagger is your best friend, 90% of your strike damage come from dagger AA, cloack and dagger and backstab. Your steal shadow step will be replaced by a Well shadowstep, that's basically the only difference in gameplay for power build.

I'm still baffled that condi S/D thief was ever a thing.

Edited by BobbyT.7192
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5 minutes ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

My only concern about this tradeoff, it's make Trickery trailine even more mandatory in PVP/WvW ....

I don't think that trickery is going to be mandatory, at least not for scepter as it is presumably build with the new class mechanic and the lowered ini pool in mind.

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Chrono runes don't give *area* Quickness so they're useless in PvE. They also ave poor DPS compared to other Power-focused runes; and Sigil of Celerity is far stronger for bursting other players.

If the spec generates any kind of group Quickness you're far more likely to see Rune of the Firebrand used, imo.

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4 hours ago, Vidit.7108 said:

If the initiative pool is smaller that's the one thing that has the potential to make this spec dead on arrival. We don't get help from alac so it has to have some way of getting to use it's weapon skills faster or it's just going to feel bad.

In reality, how big the pool is is important only at the very beginning of combat. After that, all that counts is initiative regain rate.

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31 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

After that, all that counts is initiative regain rate.

Which is quite low unless you take trickery and even then it's still nothing to write home about. The best ini reg trait is by far M7 but that's nothing Specter has access to.

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30 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In reality, how big the pool is is important only at the very beginning of combat. After that, all that counts is initiative regain rate.

Except that in this case, since it is a support build, running down your initiative is not a great idea. To activate the quickness beam, you need to first spend 3 on another skill and then 3 on the beam. You also don't want to have less than 3 incase you need an on demand weapon skill heal.

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