So… med kit is junk on Mechanist?

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, RobinotX.1604 said:

I see it is the same as burst options for other classes. You have to make sure you dont let your mech die and let it repair on time then bring it back after 10 seconds. Let it do its moves and damage and then recall it again. I think it will be much more active than Ranger which I feel has more passive pet management.

I see this misconception alot....

You can't recall and crash down the mech with 10 seconds all the time. The cooldown of the mech scales with it's health. The cooldown is just and only 10 seconds if your mech is at 100% health. If it has any damage, the cooldown will increase. If your mech is low on health, the cooldown will start approaching 100 seconds, which is the maximum cooldown in case the mech is dead.

This is not a case of "just recall it and call it 10 seconds later again!". If your mech takes any damage, you will suffer alot of downtime on it.

[ThrakathNar.4537]

4 minutes ago, RobinotX.1604 said:

 You have to make sure you dont let your mech die and let it repair on time then bring it back after 10 seconds.

Everyone keeps repeating this, but this is wrong.

 

The cooldown is 10 seconds if and only if you recall the golem at 100% health.

 

The description for the recall skill from the stream is as follows:
"Recall your mech for repairs. The cooldown of Crash Down is increased by a percentage of your mech's depleted health"

 

The skill fact says this conversion is 1% to 1%.

So if you recall your golem when it is only at half health, you still need to wait 50 seconds to summon it. Not 10.

 

[Cisii.8317]

Just now, Kodama.6453 said:

I see this misconception alot....

You can't recall and crash down the mech with 10 seconds all the time. The cooldown of the mech scales with it's health. The cooldown is just and only 10 seconds if your mech is at 100% health. If it has any damage, the cooldown will increase. If your mech is low on health, the cooldown will start approaching 100 seconds, which is the maximum cooldown in case the mech is dead.

This is not a case of "just recall it and call it 10 seconds later again!". If your mech takes any damage, you will suffer alot of downtime on it.

The elite might bring it back full health as well. We are definitely overreacting here.

[RobinotX.1604]

CmC even mentioned numbers are easily changed so I wouldn't worry too much. If you think 100 seconds is really bad then just make that be heard. I first need to see how easily the Mech dies in different scenarios and we know on Tuesday. Then we can complain about potential CD's being too much or not.

[Jski.6180]

7 hours ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

I think he is saying that Regeneration is worth anything. I know he is not about to say that the skill 4 is worth anything, because in full Minstrel's (Or Harrier's, honestly), the heal is barely over 1100.

Surely, he is trying to assert that Regeneration is worth a dren and I hope that he is, because I would sincerely hope that I can attribute his statement to ignorance rather than outright malice.

Your a support build the point is not to self support but to support others and your pet..

[Mesket.5728]

20 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

I mean thats something that they could add

why would they when they specifically removed it from berseker as a trade off (having your mechanic while your espec is on downtime). It is on their design philosophy that you loose 1/3 of your class while on downtime of your class mechanic. They removed triats like always angry that just left a 10 second buff when berserker was off literally stating that this is how they want this spec to work. I really don't see them putting toolbelt skills on this espec, never.

[Kodama.6453]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Your a support build the point is not to self support but to support others and your pet..

Name me one single support build in this game which isn't able to heal itself (including having NO access to a healing skill on 6).

[Kusumura.8642]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Your a support build the point is not to self support but to support others and your pet..

In this game?

THIS GAME?

ARE YOU INSANE!? THAT IS NOT HOW THIS GAME IS BALANCED IN ITS GAMEPLAY. AT ALL. PERIOD. FULL-STOP. THIS GAME PUNISHES SUPPORT BUILDS PUNITIVELY FOR DECIDING TO FORCE THEIR EXISTENCE WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T WANT THEM and that's actually sort of okay with how things are; everybody is meant to take responsibility for themselves by actively avoiding damage and reacting to their own taken damage as-needed, not be carried by one person declaring, "I'm heals!", and letting the group hamfist or spunkgargleweewee their way through fights, WHICH ONLY DRIVES THE POINT HOME THAT I CANNOT, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, FIGURE OUT WHAT DEGREE OF INSANITY SOMEONE OUGHT TO DIAGNOSE YOU WITH SINCE REMOVING SOMEONE'S ABILITY TO HEAL AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES ISN'T A SACRIFICE IN THIS GAME, IT ISN'T A PRO-VERSUS-CON DECISION.

IT'S BLASTED IGNORANCE IS WHAT IT IS, AS IS THE BLATANT LAZY, SLOTHFUL ACCEPTANCE THAT LEADS ANYONE TO LAY DOWN AND TAKE IT AS, "Well the devs decided it so it must be the best thing.", THAT YOU AND EVERY MUPPET THAT ACCEPTS IT AS STATEMENT OF FACT THAT CANNOT PUT THE THOUGHT INTO SEEING FIVE SECONDS INTO THE FUTURE AND SEEING HOW IT WOULD PLAY OUT.

YOU DON'T NEED THE BETA TO KNOW THAT SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT.

22 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Name me one single support build in this game which isn't able to heal itself (including having NO access to a healing skill on 6).

+1 Kodama.

[Kusumura.8642]

9 hours ago, Kaizoku.1298 said:

Yeah I have just revisited the traits and skills and noticed that the CD gets longer if the mech is missing health.

We'll see how long it will be since we have access to lots of alacrity.

At best, 75 seconds.
In reality, closer to 90 seconds. The only Alacrity that we have access to once the Mech dies is on the final attack in our Mace AA chain.

[Infusion.7149]

9 hours ago, Kaizoku.1298 said:

Yeah I have just revisited the traits and skills and noticed that the CD gets longer if the mech is missing health.

We'll see how long it will be since we have access to lots of alacrity. And about the toolbelt skills that we lose I'm completely fine with that since I can just switch to different utility skills. You can still use almost all of the kits (just maybe not the elixir gun) anyway, the damage we lose on grenade barrage is whatever, the mech can compensate. The toolbelts we lose that actually hurt are the breakstuns and heals pretty much. The mech covers the damage that we lose from damaging toolbelt skills either way.

 

The cooldown for crash down isn't set in stone as they said so there's no point in crying over it right now.

You don't have "a lot of alacrity" if you're running any DPS /hybrid mechanist without Mech Frame: Channeling Circuits.

---

@Kasumura , a "support"  mechanist can use Barrier Signet which is on 24s base cooldown.
 

8 minutes ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

At best, 75 seconds.
In reality, closer to 90 seconds. The only Alacrity that we have access to once the Mech dies is on the final attack in our Mace AA chain.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[MatyrGustav.6210]

21 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

We still have 4 other heal skills that we can use that are actually better 🤦‍♂️.

This exactly. Think of the signet heal replacing med kit. You have a self heal and the mech does a aoe heal. 

 

If anyone wants the toolbelt dont equip Mechanist. In theory your utility skills create toolbelt skills, now with Mechanist your traits create mech skills. it's basically a tradoff. 

 

Every elite spec has its strengths and one of Mechanists strengths is not the Med kit lol, and thats ok 

[Cisii.8317]

nooooo it's not okayyyy we need meeeeeedkiiiit where's my medkiiiiiit??? I honestly couldn't care less about medkit I'd use racial skills before I use medkit. I don't get these support build fanatics, just don't play mechanist if you want to be a support healer or whatever 

[ThrakathNar.4537]

31 minutes ago, Kaizoku.1298 said:

just don't play mechanist if you want to be a support healer or whatever 

But... what's the purpose of the middle row of traits, then? They give barrier, alacrity, other assorted boons, and condi cleanse. If mechanist isn't meant to be played as a support healer, then why is there a trait that very specifically gives your golem a percentage of your healing power and concentration, as well as making one of the buttons pulse out a bunch of group defensive boons and condi cleanse?

 

I don't think it's a very good argument to say "just don't play support on this elite spec" when there are clearly traits and associated mech skills with the design goal of making it good for a support playstyle. That's why the spec has alacrity, after all.

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

In this game?

THIS GAME?

ARE YOU INSANE!? THAT IS NOT HOW THIS GAME IS BALANCED IN ITS GAMEPLAY. AT ALL. PERIOD. FULL-STOP. THIS GAME PUNISHES SUPPORT BUILDS PUNITIVELY FOR DECIDING TO FORCE THEIR EXISTENCE WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T WANT THEM and that's actually sort of okay with how things are; everybody is meant to take responsibility for themselves by actively avoiding damage and reacting to their own taken damage as-needed, not be carried by one person declaring, "I'm heals!", and letting the group hamfist or spunkgargleweewee their way through fights, WHICH ONLY DRIVES THE POINT HOME THAT I CANNOT, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, FIGURE OUT WHAT DEGREE OF INSANITY SOMEONE OUGHT TO DIAGNOSE YOU WITH SINCE REMOVING SOMEONE'S ABILITY TO HEAL AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES ISN'T A SACRIFICE IN THIS GAME, IT ISN'T A PRO-VERSUS-CON DECISION.

IT'S BLASTED IGNORANCE IS WHAT IT IS, AS IS THE BLATANT LAZY, SLOTHFUL ACCEPTANCE THAT LEADS ANYONE TO LAY DOWN AND TAKE IT AS, "Well the devs decided it so it must be the best thing.", THAT YOU AND EVERY MUPPET THAT ACCEPTS IT AS STATEMENT OF FACT THAT CANNOT PUT THE THOUGHT INTO SEEING FIVE SECONDS INTO THE FUTURE AND SEEING HOW IT WOULD PLAY OUT.

YOU DON'T NEED THE BETA TO KNOW THAT SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT.

+1 Kodama.

That why a lot of the balancing in the game is very off you have your support players full bunker able to support them self just as well as the other ppl  making the pvp and even the pve into easy babby mood.

@Kodama.6453

You cant heal your self with med kit because?

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Infusion.7149]

34 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

That why a lot of the balancing in the game is very off you have your support players full bunker able to support them self just as well as the other ppl  making the pvp and even the pve into easy babby mood.

@Kodama.6453

You cant heal your self with med kit because?

 

Because the big heal on med kit is on toolbelt skill Bandage self...

Do you play heal scrapper ever?

[ThrakathNar.4537]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Because the big heal on med kit is on toolbelt skill Bandage self...

Do you play heal scrapper ever?

also, for @Jski.6180 it's worth pointing out that in the game's code, F1 is the heal skill for medkit. This means that traits or runes that activate "when you use your heal skill" literally won't ever function on mechanist with medkit, because you (technically) have no heal skill selected, because it was your old F1 skill that just got deleted.

[Jski.6180]

18 minutes ago, ThrakathNar.4537 said:

also, for @Jski.6180 it's worth pointing out that in the game's code, F1 is the heal skill for medkit. This means that traits or runes that activate "when you use your heal skill" literally won't ever function on mechanist with medkit, because you (technically) have no heal skill selected, because it was your old F1 skill that just got deleted.

Then it will have to be on the swap like using morder kit.

[Kusumura.8642]

50 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Then it will have to be on the swap like using morder kit.

It used to be, then they realised what a glaring oversight that was when you could proc every, "When Heal Skill Cast", trigger at a ridiculous pace since the swap into the kit has no CD.

Also, "When Elite Skill Cast", triggers don't function on the Mortar Kit's Elite button. They instead move to the F5 butto--oh no, mmmn, yeah, dang, guess they don't work either anymore, do they?

Do you see why this entire spec is a problem, yet?

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

In this game?

THIS GAME?

ARE YOU INSANE!? THAT IS NOT HOW THIS GAME IS BALANCED IN ITS GAMEPLAY. AT ALL. PERIOD. FULL-STOP. THIS GAME PUNISHES SUPPORT BUILDS PUNITIVELY FOR DECIDING TO FORCE THEIR EXISTENCE WITHIN THE SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T WANT THEM and that's actually sort of okay with how things are; everybody is meant to take responsibility for themselves by actively avoiding damage and reacting to their own taken damage as-needed, not be carried by one person declaring, "I'm heals!", and letting the group hamfist or spunkgargleweewee their way through fights, WHICH ONLY DRIVES THE POINT HOME THAT I CANNOT, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, FIGURE OUT WHAT DEGREE OF INSANITY SOMEONE OUGHT TO DIAGNOSE YOU WITH SINCE REMOVING SOMEONE'S ABILITY TO HEAL AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES ISN'T A SACRIFICE IN THIS GAME, IT ISN'T A PRO-VERSUS-CON DECISION.

IT'S BLASTED IGNORANCE IS WHAT IT IS, AS IS THE BLATANT LAZY, SLOTHFUL ACCEPTANCE THAT LEADS ANYONE TO LAY DOWN AND TAKE IT AS, "Well the devs decided it so it must be the best thing.", THAT YOU AND EVERY MUPPET THAT ACCEPTS IT AS STATEMENT OF FACT THAT CANNOT PUT THE THOUGHT INTO SEEING FIVE SECONDS INTO THE FUTURE AND SEEING HOW IT WOULD PLAY OUT.

YOU DON'T NEED THE BETA TO KNOW THAT SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT.

+1 Kodama.

Wow, someone is going to have a shock. Muppets or not, Anet DOES do what they want, whether players think it's the best or not. Better get used to it. 

[Kusumura.8642]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Wow, someone is going to have a shock. Muppets or not, Anet DOES do what they want, whether players think it's the best or not. Better get used to it. 

When the entire community of theorycrafters are sitting here saying, "Uhh, hey.. this doesn't work. Someone needs to see what they've just done wrong here, here, here, and here, and fix it before anything here is workable.", that's generally a good sign that roleplayers need to step down and stop trying to say, "No, wait and see how it'll all be, it'll be great!", or, as in your case, "Well get used to it because YOU don't get a say!"

Go kill another game with your false machismo. At least the devs DO read the forums and are likely making notes from all the comments the theorycrafters are saying that will be address after the beta.

You're welcome for us fighting against you and making sure the devs hear what we have to say.

[Jski.6180]

6 minutes ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

It used to be, then they realised what a glaring oversight that was when you could proc every, "When Heal Skill Cast", trigger at a ridiculous pace since the swap into the kit has no CD.

Also, "When Elite Skill Cast", triggers don't function on the Mortar Kit's Elite button. They instead move to the F5 butto--oh no, mmmn, yeah, dang, guess they don't work either anymore, do they?

Do you see why this entire spec is a problem, yet?

So they just have cd on the runes set like they should and for eng morder kit elite spec runes set is putting on the morder kit not the F5.

[Kusumura.8642]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

So they just have cd on the runes set like they should and for eng morder kit elite spec runes set is putting on the morder kit not the F5.

You are thinking like a rational human being, not a developer. You are thinking as someone capable of saying, "Ehhh.. it has an internal cooldown on the effect. Who cares how often they switch in and out of the kit? Whatever. Small bonus for them to proc it at leisure - long as the ICD is done, of course."

Devs don't think like that.
Devs think in the terms of, "Well, we could do that, but.. that'd mean that Guardians, Thieves, Warriors and everyone else is going to moan and groan that Engineers can proc their set effects whenever they'd like since they don't have a CD on those skills.. can we add a CD to those skills, themselves? Ooof, if we locked Engineers out of their kits for any length of time, I think they'd quit the game in droves. Uhh... just move the skill that procs it to something related, but has a CD? Yeah. Yeah, okay! That's the perfect fifty-fifty option! Nobody can complain, nobody can be happy! Perfect compromise reached!"

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Kusumura.8642 said:

You are thinking like a rational human being, not a developer. You are thinking as someone capable of saying, "Ehhh.. it has an internal cooldown on the effect. Who cares how often they switch in and out of the kit? Whatever. Small bonus for them to proc it at leisure - long as the ICD is done, of course."

Devs don't think like that.
Devs think in the terms of, "Well, we could do that, but.. that'd mean that Guardians, Thieves, Warriors and everyone else is going to moan and groan that Engineers can proc their set effects whenever they'd like since they don't have a CD on those skills.. can we add a CD to those skills, themselves? Ooof, if we locked Engineers out of their kits for any length of time, I think they'd quit the game in droves. Uhh... just move the skill that procs it to something related, but has a CD? Yeah. Yeah, okay! That's the perfect fifty-fifty option! Nobody can complain, nobody can be happy! Perfect compromise reached!"

They did it with elite skill trigger runes set for morder kit a long time now that would be the way they would do it with healing skill runes for med kit. Now for sure i do not have a "good" view on anet devs when it comes to balancing see my signature but that would be the way things would go ultimately.

There no other kits as far as i know in the game (conja weapons dont have a healing skill nor do they work comply but they do work close like kits).

I think its ok for the pet eng (i am calling it pupeng from ff11 puppet master class) its ok to lose your tool belt skills as long as the pet gets a full set of 5 skills or at least a set of commands that fill out a full set of 5 skills and not a ranger copy past command bar.

I am starting to think scraper and holo would of been better classes if they too had there respective class ability replaces the tool belt as well (scraper getting all 5 gyros for its f1-f5 and holo getting its holo form skills all of the time that generate heat as if your in holo mood) though i think it would be too much to ask of anet.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

DIdn't read it all but: ok sure. Lots of restrictions but still room to play. Solution is simple:

 

AED heal, Toolkit, Elixir S, Elixir Gun and Supp Crate or Mortar Kit. 

 

May as well go full crazy with the thing and go full turrets with the mech and no signets aside from the elite (big tradeoff but viable in paper).

 

It's not like losing your main weapon mechanic that gets time-gated behind a specifc kit, rooting you in place to have a hope of using, being very easy to dodge while having to gather and spend a huge amount of resources to do, with a fake 300 range shadowstep being called mobility...

 

Ohhhhhh 😬

[Lynx.9058]

16 hours ago, RobinotX.1604 said:

But what if my mech dies?

I see it is the same as burst options for other classes. You have to make sure you dont let your mech die and let it repair on time then bring it back after 10 seconds. Let it do its moves and damage and then recall it again. I think it will be much more active than Ranger which I feel has more passive pet management.

So the solution you're suggesting is to summon the mech, use its abilities for some quick burst, then despawn it, and repeat again 10-15 seconds later?

So for that 10-15 seconds, you've got an entire Espec trait tree that doesn't benefit you at all, you've got no toolbelt, and you don't have your spec's primary mechanic?  You might as well be half a character at that point.

This kitten about "not wanting the mech to be up 100% of the time" doesn't fit when they don't allow us to function without it.