Untamed, Some ideas to fix this broken mess.

[anduriell.6280]

So untamed was presented and it was reffered as "a bruiser style with damage which could fill the role of a frontliner". Well Anet could not have missed the mark more than currently has with the current design. There are plenty of good suggestions in this subforums but at least they could have asked around in the light that they seems to not to understand how the pet interacts in game. 

This is all aside from fixing the pets, balancing their stats in WvW and fixing the quickness / connecting attacks bugs. 

The untamed will not only miss the mark of a frontliner but also it will miss the mark about wvw in general. Let's do a deep dive about all the problems this elite has. All this are just witht he PVE values shown in the stream, there could be more issues if the traits are heavily nerfed in competitive (like providing only 1 second of boon duration with Enhacing Impact, that would make the trait uterly useless). 

Changes

Unleash.

Unleash should have the CD reduced to 1 second. 10 seconds is a gate that does not work in this kind of elite, any actual CD simply gates a mechanic which is based in  fast state changes under an unnecesary gate . Traits will be needed to be reworked.

Traits

Every Trait need also to be functioning on the pet. Additonally traits should provide enough utility to work as frontliner. 

Because unleash will not work with any kind of CD teh middle traitline needs to be reworked to work in a similar fashion as vow of the untamed, a permanent effect deppending on the status of the ranger.. 

 Minor Adept
Unleashed Power : Gain access to Cantrips and Feral . While your pet or the ranger is in Feral when disabling or applying movement imparing conditions the enemies will suffer addtional strike damage which can crit. When the pets are in Feral state the pets gain aditional effects on their Fs skills. 

Major Adept
Debilitating Blows: This trait seems fine. 
Vow of the Untamed: This trait is moved to become a choice for the player. It does not make sense to force the player into this because it is not really a tradeoff either. 
Feral Outburst: This trait is reworked to empower pets Fs skills. Fs applies additional effects such a blind for F1, Slow in F2 and Chilled in F3. Increases the duration of Enveloping Haze bubble to 8 seconds. 

Minor Master
Natural Fortitude: This trait should be reworked to apply the HP on the ranger and on the pet. Addtionally the untamed and the  pet will gain small pulsing heals (similar to Signet_of_Renewal_(effect) ). The heals aren't much but it is designed to the untamed get a passive benefit from CCing the target. 

Major Master
Enhancing Impact: This trait seems fine. 
Bolstering Unleash: The pet and the ranger will share incoming damage. The one in the normal state will take some damage (20% on pve) from the other one and it will get protection and small barrier in exchange.  This is designed as the untamed can decide to use the pet as buffer HP for short time while engaging heavy hit areas  and swap when is the pet in danger. 
Corrupting Vines: This trait will work on every boon rip, coming from pets, ranger abilities, sigils or runes. Any boon rip will corrupt instead. 

Minor Grandmaster
Cleansing Unleash : This one will apply a -20% condition duration to the pet and the ranger applied while the ranger is in Feral state. -20% less strike and condition damage when disabled appied to both when the ranger is in normal mode.  This is needed as the amount of passive and AoE condition effects  will hinder severily the aggresive side of the untamed. 

Major Grandmaster
Fervent Force: This one seems fine and balanced in both game modes. It needs to work on th epet too. Even with hammer is a CD reduction of 4 seconds in the bet case scenario (hammer#3 hitting both attacks). 
Ferocious Symbiosis : The speed buff makes no sense, does not stack with existing ones and swiftness is better. The passive buff from runes is better than this . This buff needs to increase damage and attack speed for both the ranger and the pet. 
Restorative Strikes This one seems fine butit needs to work on the pet too. With the addtional damage from the disabled impacts rework it should provide better sustain even with the nerfed percentage in wvw/pvp
 

Pets UI F1-F3.

Untamed needs to be able to set  Autocast in one of the F skills, the same as players can do with weapons. 

The Fs skills should  allow to target friendlies too. The reason is in unleash mode it would allow the pet to return quickly to allies location which would benefit the pet survival in instances were there may be too many aoes. In normal mode skills like HarmonIc cry (healing screech) is a support skill which works better on friendly. there is keybind to target closer ally so that should not be an issue. 

Unleashed pet F1-F3. 

The F1 and F2 abilities so be triggered around the targets and not around the pets. The blink is only used if the F1 skill is not a ranged. The radius of the skills would need to be increased to 240 around the target. This is so it works with ranged pets as well.

Feral Fs will not do strike damage and it will use the normal CD and effects addtionaly to the Feral effects. This feral abilities should be there to complement the existing abilitites with some cleave providing condition and utility effects. 

 

Lost Attack my target!

That skill F1 is very important, it allows the single target ranger to be able to perform 2 different tasks. Removing that creates a problem for the ranger which is reducing the autonomy of the pet, bringing them closer to necro minions to a companion.  Losing that functionality will create some problems as the pet deppends on the F1-F3 skills this will cause sometime those to be on cooldown. Thus the pet can not attack a different target than the ranger is targeting. Thus we got necro minions instead an actual pet. 

This will be specially problematic with pets with long cooldowns on the skills like the bear family. 

To fix that the Return to me! command is transformed in a switch, While the pet has a target it will be represented as Return to Me, otherwise it be represented as Attack my target. 

If the Untamed wants the pet to retarget aside from his main target it will need to cast that button twice (so it rotate from Return to attack) or use any available F1-F3 skills. As soon as the pet gets in combat the switch is set in Return to Me. 

Hammer Unleashed and the lack of CCs 

Dual hammer aspect does not work, it makes the hammer counterintuitive, clunky and makes very difficult to connect the attacks. Also it makes the elite to feel incompleted as other weapons do not benefit from this. To fix that the whole concept needs to change. 

To fix that behavour instead having two modes Hammer shoudl have just one, the normal mode. Skills work as the normal (not unleash) mode. 

Unleash will bring addtional damage in the form of  One_Wolf_Pack like effect to the ranger an the pet while in that mode when disabling or applying a movement impairing condition on  a foe. After the untamed has apply the movment imparing condition or the CC the target will be inflicted with a secondary hit. This will make the Untamed to feel more aggresive with strong emphasis in the crowd control side. 

The damage of this extra impact can be calculated using the Defiance bar damage the skill would do. A formula like this could be used:
Pet or ranger damage Multiplier : ( bar defiance damage of the specific conditon / 100 ) *  ( total duration in seconds - ( ( total duration in seconds - 2 ) * 0.5 ).

This formula should make sure the diminish returns in case of long duration conditions while keeping the impact of short CCs. In cases of movement imparing conditions the packet damage would be applied when applying the condition using the applied duration over the enemy (an target with conditon duration reduction would receive less damage). 

For example 5s of cripple would apply an strike of 0.65 on hit. Ranger does not have any trait or skill which can inflict constant conditions so it should be ok. The formula could be adjusted by game mode too.  

This change would allow the Untamed to have better synergy with other traitlines and the hammer would become simpler and more rewarding to use. Because pets would apply this effect as well while the pet is in unleash mode the mechanics would reward players who bounce the unleash between they and the companion. It would make the untamed feel unique as the elite would reward the ranger to use CC, and this would allow all the weapons and some traits to benefit from this effect while being under the unleash effect. 

Overbearing Smash could keep the boon rip from the unleased state as means to better synergy with the traitline.  

Cantrips

Oh boy where to start with those... First they miss the mark about interaction with the pet. Second they will provide nothing for the squad as such there is no chance it can replace a revenant or spellbreaker in squad. Let's change that so it makes sense to equip those in the zerg frontlines where the cantrips will perform better the more game systems are interacting with the player. 

Cantrips should provide powerful effects in hefty cooldowns which can be reduced by interacting with many effects. As such the untamed will benefit the more enemies fighting it while fighting small number would make the cantrips feel underpowered. That would make possible the shift from small scale to big scale. 

The heal

Perilous Gift cantrip is super very bad. Let's rework it 

Exploding Spores : replaces current heal. Similar animations and mechanics, each spore will heal up to 5 allies and cleanse 1 condition. The heal does not need to be great, something around 600-700 baseline should be fine. 

The Untamed will get a reduction of 2 seconds CD for each Spore that affects the player. So if the untamed stays in the center and is exposed to all 6 spores it will cleanse 6 conditions, heal for each of them and get a CD reduction of 12 seconds. The heal will end up being 13 seconds CD. This is fine as the heal is not great (3.6K) and there is the addtional requeriment of the untamed to stay in the center for 2 seconds. 

Additionally each spore will cause a short Daze and cripple on enemies. 

This should bring the required support to the untamed to sustain the pet and himself in the frontlines. Also it will bring some frontliner support for allies.

 

Utilities

Perilous Gift is moved to utilities. This Cantrip can have a good use but it needs to be reworked so the effects are better.  The effect will be reworked as follows: 

Allies around the untamed receive Perilous Gift buff (3s) lethal damage is ignored. As current effects at the end of the channel the pet will lose 50% of the current HP and that amount will be applied as barrier to the allies affected by the buff. 

The idea stays more or less the same: The untamed sacrifies pet survivality for a benefit, but this time is barrier and it will help up to 5 friendlies. It will also benfit the untamed survivability during the forntline combat. 

It could get a CD reduction too for each ally affected byt the skill. 

Mutate conditions. This cantrip will also work on the pet. Yes it is a full cleanse but it is in a 30s cooldown and it has a trade off (??) which will load up the untamed with an extra +14% incoming condition and strike damage. It needs to get a reduction for each condition that is cleansed of 1 second. So best case scenario the untamed is a 14% more vulnearble to damage but the cooldown of the cantrip is reduced to 16s. 

Unnatural Tranversal : needs to stunbreak. It should apply a short daze on hit as means to interrupt. 

Natures Binding could have the CD increased to 40s and apply a reduction of 2 seconds for each enemy trapped by the vines. So it keeps some consistency with the general mechanic of cd reduction in specific condition. 
 

Elite

Forest Fortification needs also to apply the buff to the pets. The damage reduction for the pet is sorely needed if Anet is taking the frontliner seriously. The Cantrip should work like Infuse_Light instead . The hammer is not fast enough to provide a reduction as needed and Cantrip does not last long enough in WvW (and PvP) 

As such the mechanic should be changed to Incoming strikes reduce the coodown of the skill, So each strike would reduce the CD 1 second. It gives a clear counterplay and better results in the frontlines. 

 

Expected results of the changes

With this changes the pet will become more durable for short time (with Forest Fortification) and the untamed would be able to heal the pet by using Exploding Spores and Mutate Conditions. 

Untamed will be more durable, will have better damage while still rewarding the crowd control focus in PvP modes. Traits and cantrips 

Edited October 29, 2021 by anduriell.6280
Format, further trait rework. Hammer and traits. Added F1 ally targeting, Added Thump improvement. Added Unleash skills and Lost attack my target sections.

[Dadnir.5038]

22 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

"a bruiser style with damage which could fill the role of a frontliner".

Can't we just be realist and admit that it's just a marketing sentence. From the moment they chose to make it a "pet" spec the possibility of the spec being a "frontliner" in WvW was out of question. You can probably use such spec as a "frontliner" in small scale PvP but not in large scale (and this is true even with the change you suggest).

From what I've seen of the Untamed, Soulbeast have more toughness potential, more access to damage nullifying/reducing skills/effect and more support than the Untamed without having to worry about the pet being killed or wandering uncontrolably. This spec will simply be deadweight in large scale battle. As for PvE... It's just a DPS spec with limited support, something that isn't really sought out.

The only saving grace of the spec is that it got great chasing and control potential in small scale PvP (which will most likely trigger the sPvP subforum hate).

Edited October 23, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Can't we just be realist and admit that it's just a marketing sentence. From the moment they chose to make it a "pet" spec the possibility of the spec being a "frontliner" in WvW was out of question. You can probably use such spec as a "frontliner" in small scale PvP but not in large scale (and this is true even with the change you suggest).

From what I've seen of the Untamed, Soulbeast have more toughness potential, more access to damage nullifying/reducing skills/effect and more support than the Untamed without having to worry about the pet being killed or wandering uncontrolably. This spec will simply be deadweight in large scale battle. As for PvE... It's just a DPS spec with limited support, something that isn't really sought out.

The only saving grace of the spec is that it got great chasing and control potential in small scale PvP (which will most likely trigger the sPvP subforum hate).

Huh? The Untamed has AoE reflect, AoE KD+immobilize, AoE cage, AoE boon rip/conversion to condis, controlled access to pet healing skills and much more, not forgetting the so necessary AoE dmg with hammer and unleash skills....to each his opinion but still...you're completely off the mark and you completely forget all the interactions with other weapons/pets

P.S nobody cares about the pvp subforum! It's populated by individuals you can kill in game while dancing around naked and playing with a single hand, I compete in pvp currently on a core d/d ele, I have zero concern about current pvp population...no amount of nerfs would ever make me worry about anything, considering level of skill....also...in the pvp subforum they cry 365/365 days on 24/24 hrs, full of snowflakes who get mad when they realize they're not even half as decent as they thought

Edited October 23, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Khenzy.9348]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Huh? The Untamed has AoE reflect, AoE KD+immobilize, AoE cage, AoE boon rip/conversion to condis, controlled access to pet healing skills and much more, not forgetting the so necessary AoE dmg with hammer and unleash skills....to each his opinion but still...you're completely off the mark and you completely forget all the interactions with other weapons/pets

P.S nobody cares about the pvp subforum! It's populated by individuals you can kill in game while dancing around naked and playing with a single hand, I compete in pvp currently on a core d/d ele, I have zero concern about current pvp population...no amount of nerfs would ever make me worry about anything, considering level of skill....also...in the pvp subforum they cry 365/365 days on 24/24 hrs, full of snowflakes who get mad when they realize they're not even half as decent as they thought

 

Sorry but you are completely off the mark. Listing all things a spec can do without context is completely disingenuous.

Dadnir is right in absolutely everything he/she said. Your pet is going to get utterly obliterated in WvW group fights even if you put it on passive. If both of your pets die almost instantly, which will happen every single time, say goodbye to more than half of your class mechanic, half of your trait and utility sinergies, a bunch of your damage and pet skills, the AoE proyectile block, the AoE boon rip and so on. So no, if pet issues and survivability are not adressed... it's just not going to be viable whatsoever.

 

This spec has the potential to be top tier in sPvP though, it's a flat out improved core Ranger, which is pretty decent currently. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Khenzy.9348

[Black Scoutsman.5830]

I think the spec has promise in PvP as a center point brawler and niche uses in small scale wvw fights.   The complete lack of stunbreaks on cantrips is a major hindrance if you ask me which still means you need LR or QZ mandatory on the bar.  Also other than the teleport cantrip on a 40 (possibly 20) second cool down, there is quite literally 0 mobility skills unless using great sword or sword, which means you miss out on the hammer uniqueness.  I feel like trying to hit slippery classes in small fights like theives, mesmers and the like is going to be all but impossible with the hammer.  

 

I'm also concerned about the pets as like op said I usually micro manage my pet with F1 to a certain Target and then switch my targeting around as needed, and it's unclear how that will work in pet unleashed state.  Also, all pets having a posion strike F1 unleashed is kinda weird.   Like my wolf all of a sudden emits not one but two poison clouds now( f3). Only certain pets have any condition damage on them so other than fluff damage and heal effects that posion is largely ignorable, especially in small scale or larger scale fights where condis evaporate rapidly anyway.   

 

I think they are in the ballpark here but I really wish they hadn't put so much emphasis on being a "Frontline" spec.  Like just call it a bruiser and move on.  There are very few specs in this game that can plunge headlong into a zerg and make it out the other side consistently.

[Arheundel.6451]

9 minutes ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

 

Sorry but you are completely off the mark. Listing all things a spec can do without context is completely disingenuous.

Dadnir is right in absolutely everything he/she said. Your pet is going to get utterly obliterated in WvW group fights even if you put it on passive. If both of your pets die almost instantly, which will happen every single time, say goodbye to more than half of your class mechanic, half of your trait and utility sinergies, a bunch of your damage and pet skills, the AoE proyectile block, the AoE boon rip and so on. So no, if pet issues and survivability are not adressed... it's just not going to be viable whatsoever.

 

This spec has the potential to be top tier in sPvP though, it's a flat out improved core Ranger, which is pretty decent currently. 

Being called "frontline" doesn't mean literally be in the actual first line clashing, the spec has access to AoE dmg with teleport and range, something the ranger desperately needed

 

Also but hey....I told you so!  now it's more appropate than ever, me and few others have been campaigning for a non-pet centered elite for EoD,

 

years before even its announcement but hey....you lot wanted the bunny thumper and pet master 

 

 

Now the ranger community can enjoy their bunny thumper..sorry pal! I already have a specific playstyle so I won't complain much, the rest of you..got exactly what you were asking for

 

 

 

[Swagger.1459]

So make the pet better and the end result will be the Ranger will be nerfed/balanced downward. The pet will still be eaten alive in wvw gameplay, team healing and buff priority puts pets 4th on the list so it will die even faster…  all while the pet still only provides a negligible contribution compared. 
 

So in the end you want to have a poorer performing Ranger spec and useless pet for wvw gameplay, and I don’t think most want that to happen. 

No thanks. 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Swagger.1459

[Levetty.1279]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The spec has access to AoE dmg and range,

No it doesn't.

[Infusion.7149]

" the spec has access to AoE dmg with teleport and range" ... a melee hammer is not ranged. For the most part it is a bad version of scrapper , a 20s cooldown (if you hit, otherwise 40s) 900 range teleport won't change that (see staff daredevil).

Edited October 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[anduriell.6280]

Added Lost Attack my target and Unleash skills section. 

[anduriell.6280]

6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Can't we just be realist and admit that it's just a marketing sentence.

It does not matter if it's total bs or not, the point is Anet  made the point of this elite to provide "bruiser and frontliner capabilities". Current elite design will fail misserably at that so i am giving suggestions how it can be reworked to accomplish that. 

True they can do any other approach but here there are some ideas. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

It does not matter if it's total bs or not, the point is Anet  made the point of this elite to provide "bruiser and frontliner capabilities". Current elite design will fail misserably at that so i am giving suggestions how it can be reworked to accomplish that. 

True they can do any other approach but here there are some ideas. 

There needs to be some clarification here. I'm not sure the spec is there to PROVIDE that. It's simply recognized at being good at doing that particular thing, at least in the eyes of the devs. In otherwords, I'm not convinced the devs TARGET the spec being a bruiser and frontliner in competitive game modes. I think they just see the skills they give the spec as relevant TO that task. 

Now, even if I'm wrong and it is the target ... if it fails miserably and Anet wants it to succeed, we know they will change it, because the recent patch notes are evidence that's how they operate. In otherwords, it won't change until it's played so Anet can see how they want it to change. 

[Obtena.7952]

Double post. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There needs to be some clarification here. I'm not sure the spec is there to PROVIDE that. It's simply recognized at being good at doing that particular thing, at least in the eyes of the devs. In otherwords, I'm not convinced the devs TARGET the spec being a bruiser and frontliner in competitive game modes. I think they just see the skills they give the spec as relevant TO that task. 

Now, even if I'm wrong and it is the target ... if it fails miserably and Anet wants it to succeed, we know they will change it, because the recent patch notes are evidence that's how they operate. In otherwords, it won't change until it's played so Anet can see how they want it to change. 

Well that is what they said in the stream, this is supposed to play as a bruiser and frontliner. If we move on from the frontliner part, even as bruised i have plenty of doubts. 

The elite relays deeply in the pet system but it does not change anything about it,all the traits and utilities are about only the ranger the same as the soulbeast traitline with little to none interaction with pet. 

 

So it will not provide additional sustain to the pets but it will require of the pet interaction to perform. So untamed will need to keep using the forever and ever same traitlines WS and BM as selfsustain and pet sustain. Which will dent into the "agressiviness" of the elite. 

Core Ranger will perform better simply because they will have access to a DPS traitline in addition to those 2, for example Skirmish.

 

If untammed is not properly fixed it will end up beign another pewpew LB sniper with core utilities (for sustain/stunbreaks) and core weapons. Maybe the elite if it's not much nerfed in competitive. And worse than soulbeast at that assasiney sniper role .

 

What is the point of an elite which ends up using only the F1-F3 of the whole spec. 

 

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Well that is what they said in the stream, this is supposed to play as a bruiser and frontliner. If we move on from the frontliner part, even as bruised i have plenty of doubts. 

The elite relays deeply in the pet system but it does not change anything about it,all the traits and utilities are about only the ranger the same as the soulbeast traitline with little to none interaction with pet. 

 

So it will not provide additional sustain to the pets but it will require of the pet interaction to perform. So untamed will need to keep using the forever and ever same traitlines WS and BM as selfsustain and pet sustain. Which will dent into the "agressiviness" of the elite. 

Core Ranger will perform better simply because they will have access to a DPS traitline in addition to those 2, for example Skirmish.

 

If untammed is not properly fixed it will end up beign another pewpew LB sniper with core utilities (for sustain/stunbreaks) and core weapons. Maybe the elite if it's not much nerfed in competitive. And worse than soulbeast at that assasiney sniper role .

 

What is the point of an elite which ends up using only the F1-F3 of the whole spec. 

 

Again, that's the perspective of someone who believes the spec is targeting a role. I don't think that's how Anet creates the specs. In fact, based on the fact that the intro to EVERY spec design breakdown by Cal is the spec's lore/story background by Indigo, I'm convinced that how you are describing this isn't relevant to how the class is designed. Again, it's not clear that Anet has made 'bruiser' a TARGET for the design but is simply just recognizing the value of the design IN that role. 

If the question you have is what is the point of the elite spec, it's simply to offer players a different style to play the class. Whether that style excels at being in a 'role' is simply a consequence of it's skillset. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anduriell.6280]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, that's the perspective of someone who believes the spec is targeting a role. I don't think that's how Anet creates the specs. In fact, based on the fact that the intro to EVERY spec design breakdown by Cal is the spec's lore/story background by Indigo, I'm convinced that how you are describing this isn't relevant to how the class is designed. Again, it's not clear that Anet has made 'bruiser' a TARGET for the design but is simply just recognizing the value of the design IN that role. 

um so by opinion what would be the "role" of this new elite. It should have some.... Or you mean it has none and the elite is a mash up of random skills. Sure it looks like it. If that is the case i just gave them plenty of fixes to it has some. 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

um so by opinion what would be the "role" of this new elite. 

Um ... NONE? I mean, again, that's not the goal, or at least based on what I've seen Anet say and how they act in the videos, it's not. 

You say it should have one ... but that's not true. Especs don't need to fill some gap in roles for people to enjoy playing them. That's not why they exist, at least based on what Anet has told us. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anduriell.6280]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Um ... NONE? I mean, again, that's not the goal, or at least based on what I've seen Anet say and how they act in the videos, it's not. 

So there you go, because it must have one as this is not only an openworld PvE game i just gave them plenty of ideas to make it in an frontliner / bruiser spec. 

I don't get your point here. 

 

PS: CmC pointed out the objective of this spec was to be an aggresive bruiser and to perform as fontliner. Check the stream if you don't believe me. I haven't came out with the frontliner thing on my own. 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280
added "aggresive" nuisanse.

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I don't get your point here. 

The starting point for the design isn't a role, so it seems weird to claim it's a broken mess because of an unplayed assessment of how well it fills any specific role or not.  If that spec design fits a role, it's not clear if that's the target or simply a consequence of the design.  It appears that the metric for Anet about classes being played isn't about if it fills a role, but if it's sufficiently played, according to their metrics. 

I watched the stream ... and yes I heard the reference to the bruiser frontliner thing many times. No denying that. I'm just questioning if it's sound to conclude that this spec won't fulfil that role (not having actually PLAYED it) or if "bruiser role' is even a design target in the first place. Basically, it's really premature to propose Anet fix 'this broken mess' right now. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anduriell.6280]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I watched the stream ... and yes I heard the reference to the bruiser frontliner thing many times. No denying that.

 

Quote

I'm just questioning if it's sound to conclude that this spec won't fulfil that role (not having actually PLAYED it) or if it's even as much of a target as Anet indicates. Basically, it's really premature to propose Anet fix 'this broken mess' right now. 

You see you are contradicting yourself now. 

If Anet says their intention is to be a frontliner and bruiser the feedback should be based in that idea, What's the point into giving the feedback about this elite being an assasin or support elite? Let's facilitate feedback so the elite can become what Anet has in mind for the elite. Everybody will be happier and the elite will have less nerfs and wonky mechanics. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

 

You see you are contradicting yourself now. 

If Anet says their intention is to be a frontliner and bruiser the feedback should be based in that idea, What's the point into giving the feedback about this elite being an assasin or support elite? Let's facilitate feedback so the elite can become what Anet has in mind for the elite. Everybody will be happier and the elite will have less nerfs and wonky mechanics. 

 

 

No, I haven't contradicted myself, because I'm not claiming it's their intent. I'm just confirming I heard Anet reference that Untamed will be good in that role. If Anet's intent is to be frontliner/bruiser, we won't know how effective it is at doing that until weeks or months after it's release. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anduriell.6280]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, I haven't contradicted myself. If Anet's intent is to be frontliner/bruiser, we won't know how effective it is at doing that until weeks or months after it's release. 

You don't know. That is a you statement and a you limitation.

 

Me and anybody who have played with the class long enough in competitive can already see glaring design problems with what is shown. I am not saying there won't be more but for the moment i can see all of those i pointed out in this thread. 

 

I am pretty confident once i get to play with it in competitive i will expand this thread by a lot.  

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Obtena.7952]

16 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Me and anybody who have played with the class long enough in competitive can already see glaring design problems with what is shown. I am not saying there won't be more but for the moment i can see all of those i pointed out in this thread. 

No, you don't know how the espec plays in competitive based on your total experience with the class itself. Again, 'how well' the spec does in the game is measured by Anet based on how people play it and how much they play it ... that's not determined by people the spec works in people's heads in specific scenarios. 

I get it, you see things you don't like and want to change ... but 'not fulfilling role' isn't the way to do that if no one can confirm that through actual play.  I'm sure you will just do some emoji here, but the joke isn't on me ... I see how things work. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anduriell.6280]

18 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I get it, you see things you don't like and want to change ... but 'not fulfilling role' isn't the way to do that if no one can confirm that through play. 

That is very good point. 

As i said some issues are very glaring for experienced players mostly because they have played with Core and Druid which will be managed in a very similar fashion to this untamed. I can explain further but that could take very long. 

The lack of pet sustain will be a very grave issue. Even if the Tamed uses core utilities and weapons the fact that while the pet is dead half of the elite is gone is not very convenient. And the Tamed does not bring anything for the pet heal or sustain.
In fact even the heal is a problem for pet survivality while any other heal for the ranger heals also the pet. 

 

That's why i pointed out it was a you limitation. I wasn't trying to be mean i was trying to point out although you may not see it other people with more experience with the profession will see them. In fact there are other people in the forums who realized about issues i didn't see like the problem with unleashed F1-F2 and ranged pets. 

 

In my opinion the best thing anet can do it to take all this feedback to heart and work hard so at least for once they give the ranger mains some elite which can deliver  what is was promised. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Gorem.8104]

Well for one thing, at least the beta where we played say, Bladesworn, came out before these posts. The fact that its almost entirely predictable how bad this spec is is saying something. 

It will be interesting to see when it does come into game, to see if they have actually buffed pets a lot in pvp/wvw and are just not telling us, but also yes, the Cantrips are all terrible, and the traits looked really bad and the hammer requiring a charge up with every attack means it will be extremely easy for other people to proc on Interrupt effects. 

Here's to hoping this spec changes a lot before release. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Gorem.8104