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So like if chrono wells...


Genesis.5169

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precog could go down to 40s and I could see it being usable, the rest... I dont see a reason to ever run them. Mesmer needs its core utilities too much to take kitten unreliable damage skills. And utilities themselves arent THAT bad, like. Its not necro level of wells strong but they are decent, you just cant afford to take other things.

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I think chrono wells need a very big rework because

1) They are bad
2) They have no identity and are not interactive

If it was up to me, they'd get a "flip effect" to collapse them prematurely and do something else. Real talk here: nobody's excited for 1s chilled; these flip effects would play a lot on the theme of time (with past vs future and what not) and would thematically fit very well with the chrono design, I think. Designers talked about how they liked these kind of contrast when developing chrono, and I'd like to expand on that. Additionally, well trait would reward collapsing a well with a blast finisher.

- WELL OF ETERNITY:
pulses condi cleanse, you know it.

  • If it ends correctly: same as now, you get a big healing
  • If you collapse it: smaller heal, but you get resolution and protection (maybe even stability or resistance? I don't know, just throwing ideas)

The idea is that well of eternity should be used to either rewind back time (and bring you back when you were healthy) or preserve the stability of the current timeline (and prevent you\your allies from being wounded in the first place); I like this contrast of past vs present for such a skill.

- WELL OF PRECOGNITION
Casting this skill gives you (not your allies; just you) 0.5s evade, just because chrono gets no distortion and I got this thing rupted so much it's enraging.

  • If it ends correctly: people inside the well get endurance
  • If you collapse it: enemies inside the well are inflicted with vulnerability and blinded

The idea for flip is that, instead of allowing your allies to predict the future and block, you prevent the opponents from foreseeing the future. So, they can't defend against opponent's hits (hence the vuln), nor can land their own hits (hence the blind).

- WELL OF ALACRITY\WELL OF ACTION
Those two skills become one because they really need to be imho. Pulsing slow and chilled on foes (think it's too strong? Well of darkness has much less cast time, much more chilled and blindness)

  • If it ends correctly: grant alac and quickness to allies
  • If you collapse it: you give switness and vigor to allies, while foes get cripple and weakness.

The idea is that the well can manipulate the time of skills, but collapsing it manipulates the time of movement.

WELL OF CALAMITY
Right now it can crit for 800, and last tick can crit for 4k. This one needs the biggest rework IMHO, it's very uninteresting. I think it should pulse cripple\weakness (like now) and 2k regular damage if critting with zerk amulet.

  • If it ends correctly: Enemies inside the well are knocked down, but no further damage is dealt; no last tick big hit.
  • If you collapse it: you teleport to the well's location and knock back (not launch: knock back) surrounding foes.

The idea is to create a very debilitating skill to allow further attacks, like winter's bite does (differently) for rangers; however, if collapsed, it would give chrono some mobility, in a different way than blink.

- WELL OF AGING
We unified two wells, so there's room for a new well, which would be a condi well. Every tick inflicts poison and vulnerability

  • If it ends correctly: enemies are immobilized and tormented.
  • If you collapse it: enemies are dazed and confused.

The idea is to age your opponent's body (kinda like what Dr Strange does with the apple), decaying them alive by slowing your opponents healing and increasing the damage they take. On well end, your body is most definitely old, on its death bed and can't do all of these young things anymore, like running around and what not. However, you may decide to collapse the well earlier to age the mind instead; hence the confusion and the daze, for full dementia. An idea for its relative vfx could be a whole lot of trees\bushes sprouting and then quickly withering

- GRAVITY WELL
We all love this skill. This doesn't need really any rework, it's perfect as it is. I'm just throwing ideas for the flip mechanic, but I really love this thing as it currently is.

  • If it ends correctly: enemies are pulled and damaged (0 damage in pvp but whatever)
  • If you collapse it: allies inside the well get stability.

The idea is to totally disrupt your opponents via the gigantic pull or to preserve your allies from disruption with stability. It could be used as a weird contender for guardian's stab? Cooldown would be too high to do such a thing, but it's an idea you can toy with; guardian's monopoly over stability isn't really healthy IMHO.
_____________________________
MY THOUGHT PROCESS ABOUT WHY I'M PROPOSING THESE THINGS
Will probably not be done because it's a massive effort, but I really like to imagine "how to make chrono interesting without making it brainless AoE spam"... and wells are at risk of becoming very boring, because they're just pulsing the same thing over the same area over and over and over.
I think this rework would make wells more fun and interactive without bringing chronobunker back, since players would now have an active choice to make.

Necro wells are core wells, so they're very plain (strong, but plain). Elite specs, however, are a different thing; scrapper wells move with the scrapper; the new thief wells all have a a shadowstep attached. They're exciting because they have some utility beside "pulsing a thing". Chrono wells are attached to an elite specialization... but nothing about them feels elite at all right now. This flipping mechanic would give chrono wells a separate identity from wells of necromancers -just like the moving wells of a scrapper and the porting wells of a specter are still wells but feel vastly different.

Honestly, "you spend 3/4s casting a skill, then you wait 3s, then you get a real skill" is not a very strong identity. Everybody hates it. It was done with CS in mind, but getting the privilege of playing like a chronomancer once every 105s is definitely not enough... and this can't be fixed by just buffing wells, because otherwise they'd become unreasonably strong with CS.
Wells need some more use outside of CS without turning them into skills that do everything at once, and I feel like bringing this kind of choice would definitely do that.
One of the design points of chronomancer (which I loved) was "place the wells (or shield5) in continuum split, then reap the benefit on continuum split end, then place them immediately again and reap twice the benefits". If these wells flipped like mesmer sword3 (which goes on cooldown when casted, not when flipped) this kind of interaction would be preserved; the cooldown resets correctly with CS, even if you still have to use the collapse when CS ends.

Edited by Terrorhuz.4695
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Just make Wells on all classes mobile like on Scrapper, problem solved. They're useful enough already ,its just being in a fixed location and having such a long duration before the final pulse that makes them easy to step out of that players don't take them, especially in competitive.

 

Trying to get an ally to stand in a well is even harder than trying to get an enemy to stand in one.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
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On 10/27/2021 at 5:14 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I think chrono wells need a very big rework because

1) They are bad
2) They have no identity and are not interactive

If it was up to me, they'd get a "flip effect" to collapse them prematurely and do something else. Honestly nobody's excited for 1s chilled; these flip effects would play a lot on the theme of time (with past vs future and what not) and would thematically fit very well with the chrono design, I think. Designers talked about how they liked these kind of contrast when developing chrono, and I'd like to expand on that

- WELL OF ETERNITY:
pulses condi cleanse, you know it.

  • If it ends correctly: same as now, you get a big healing
  • If you collapse it: smaller heal, but you get resolution and protection (maybe even stability or resistance? I don't know, just throwing ideas)

The idea is that well of eternity should be used to either rewind back time (and bring you back when you were healthy) or preserve the stability of the current timeline (and prevent you\your allies from being wounded in the first place); I like this contrast of past vs present for such a skill.

- WELL OF PRECOGNITION
Casting this skill gives you (not your allies; just you) 0.5s evade, just because chrono gets no distortion and I got this thing rupted so much it's enraging.

  • If it ends correctly: people inside the well get endurance
  • If you collapse it: enemies inside the well are inflicted with vulnerability and blinded

The idea for flip is that, instead of allowing your allies to predict the future and block, you prevent the opponents from foreseeing the future. So, they can't defend against opponent's hits (hence the vuln), nor can land their own hits (hence the blind).

- WELL OF ALACRITY\WELL OF ACTION
Those two skills become one because they really need to be imho. Pulsing slow and chilled on foes (think it's too strong? Well of darkness has much less cast time, much more chilled and blindness)

  • If it ends correctly: grant alac and quickness to allies
  • If you collapse it: you give switness and vigor to allies, while foes get cripple and weakness.

The idea is that the well can manipulate the time of skills, but collapsing it manipulates the time of movement.

WELL OF CALAMITY
Right now it can crit for 800, and last tick can crit for 4k. This one needs the biggest rework IMHO, it's very uninteresting. I think it should pulse cripple\weakness (like now) and 2k regular damage if critting with zerk amulet.

  • If it ends correctly: Enemies inside the well are knocked down, but no further damage is dealt; no last tick big hit.
  • If you collapse it: you teleport to the well's location and knock back (not launch: knock back) surrounding foes.

The idea is to create a very debilitating skill to allow further attacks, like winter's bite does (differently) for rangers; however, if collapsed, it would give chrono some mobility, in a different way than blink.

- WELL OF AGING
We unified two wells, so there's room for a new well, which would be a condi well. Every tick inflicts poison and vulnerability

  • If it ends correctly: enemies are immobilized and tormented.
  • If you collapse it: enemies are dazed and confused.

The idea is to age your opponent's body (kinda like what Dr Strange does with the apple), decaying them alive by slowing your opponents healing and increasing the damage they take. On well end, your body is most definitely old, on its death bed and can't do all of these young things anymore, like running around and what not. However, you may decide to collapse the well earlier to age the mind instead; hence the confusion and the daze, for full dementia.

- GRAVITY WELL
We all love this skill. This doesn't need really any rework, it's perfect as it is. I'm just throwing ideas for the flip mechanic, but I really love this thing as it currently is.

  • If it ends correctly: enemies are pulled and damaged (0 damage in pvp but whatever)
  • If you collapse it: allies inside the well get stability.

The idea is to totally disrupt your opponents via the gigantic pull or to preserve your allies from disruption with stability. It could be used as a weird contender for guardian's stab? Cooldown would be too high to do such a thing, but it's an idea you can toy with; guardian's monopoly over stability isn't really healthy IMHO.
_____________________________
MY THOUGHT PROCESS ABOUT WHY I'M PROPOSING THESE THINGS
Will probably not be done because it's a massive effort, but I really like to imagine "how to make chrono interesting without making it brainless AoE spam"... and wells are at risk of becoming very boring, because they're just pulsing the same thing over the same area over and over and over.
I think this rework would make wells more fun and interactive without bringing chronobunker back, since players would now have an active choice to make.

Necro wells are core wells, so they're very plain (strong, but plain). Elite specs, however, are a different thing; scrapper wells move with the scrapper; the new thief wells all have a a shadowstep attached. They're exciting because they have some utility beside "pulsing a thing". Chrono wells are attached to an elite specialization... but nothing about them feels elite at all right now. This flipping mechanic would give chrono wells a separate identity from wells of necromancers -just like the moving wells of a scrapper and the porting wells of a spectre are still wells but feel vastly different.

Honestly, "you spend 3/4s casting a skill, then you wait 3s, then you get a real skill" is not a very strong identity. Everybody hates it. It was done with CS in mind, but getting the privilege of playing like a chronomancer once every 105s is definitely not enough... and this can't be fixed by just buffing wells, because otherwise they'd become unreasonably strong with CS.
Wells need some more use outside of CS without turning them into skills that do everything at once, and I feel like bringing this kind of choice would definitely do that.
One of the design points of chronomancer (which I loved) was "place the wells (or shield5) in continuum split, then reap the benefit on continuum split end, then place them immediately again and reap twice the benefits". If these wells flipped like mesmer sword3 (which goes on cooldown when casted, not when flipped) this kind of interaction would be preserved; the cooldown resets correctly with CS, even if you still have to use the teleport when CS ends.

All great ideas, I suggest a small fix of providing the buffs first and leaving the trait heal as the only thing you have to wait for.

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