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Why Gunsaber?


Grand Marshal.4098

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1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Pretty sure the answer to the OP's question ... is that there is strong thematic reason for their choice. I mean ... what other weapon does it make the most sense to attach a hand cannon to? Seems to me they made a relevant choice here. For example, kind of stupid to have a GunBow don't you think? GunAxe? The field of choices narrows PRETTY fast when you think about how accepted these weapon combinations would be. 

Gun polearm any gun spear, gun Naginata, the weapon that makes most sense is a kitten rifle with a bayonet since attaching a pointy stick to your boomstick seems deadly, which is the default weapon for gunspear since it is so practical pretty darn used also. The spear and the rifle were the main tool for war and they changed history, swords not so much, pitiful sidearm at best. Like  @Grand Marshal.4098  said, it is hollywood rule of cool factor about samurai with katanas even though they used polearms, bows and rifles as main weapons.
People whine about spears, warrior needed range capabilities combine those two and you would have gotten practical ranged kit with some melee abilities on a gun spear thing.    

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13 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Katana are way more popular as a weapon type than greataxes. There was no way in hell Anet wouldn't add a katana based spec in some way with End of Dragons, considering that we are going to Cantha, a region heavily inspired by different Asian cultures.

This kit really really needed to be a Kitana over this silly gunsaber thing.  The abilities are all reminiscent of Samurai movement, especially over the supposed Willbender, who somehow is soft-labeled a samurai.  

 

Outside of that, the whole ammunition thing just really doesn't make sense.  Warrior is energy and momentum.  Organic things manifested from the Warrior, not guns.  They could have very easily implemented some sort of practical magic element to assist this rather than "woop I'm gonna swing a big sharp weapon that fires bullets at me in order to work!"   With the proper finesse, and serious idea deletion, this kit could be a standout.

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13 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Gun polearm any gun spear, gun Naginata, the weapon that makes most sense is a kitten rifle with a bayonet since attaching a pointy stick to your boomstick seems deadly, which is the default weapon for gunspear since it is so practical pretty darn used also. The spear and the rifle were the main tool for war and they changed history, swords not so much, pitiful sidearm at best. Like  @Grand Marshal.4098  said, it is hollywood rule of cool factor about samurai with katanas even though they used polearms, bows and rifles as main weapons.
People whine about spears, warrior needed range capabilities combine those two and you would have gotten practical ranged kit with some melee abilities on a gun spear thing.    

maybe ... but again, the question here isn't why Anet didn't choose any of the many other available choices. The question is why they made the choice they did. 

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Overall, I don't feel it really adds a lot to warrior...as yeah we have a great sword and the high attack damage "slow charge" seems kinda impractical for most play scenarios and may end up just becoming a meme.
Playing with ammo and shouts is a cool idea though. The more I sit on the idea, I kind of just wish they gave us a main hand/offhand pistol instead and went with a support/mid-ranged warrior with some sweet shout/heal support and a temporary "adrenaline warcryer shroud" that offers five new "burst shout" skills like shout mega-heal, alacrity shout, critical shout,  hard stun aoe CC , etc. to offer up a possible alternative play style to group play than banner support.

Edited by firedragon.8953
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On 10/26/2021 at 11:38 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... but we aren't talking about a small handgun here right ... I mean, sure, Anet could imagine anything and yes, I'm aware there are other 'gun' weapons from history, but the question here is why NOT a Gunsaber? Like any other choice was somehow more fitting because of the story?

The point is simple ... it's fitting and probably other things not fitting as much. 

They could have put a bayonette on top of a rifle (that's still a gun) making a spear (or a great axe or whatever the form of the blade would allow) instead of a Greatsword blade on top of a gun for a "gunsaber".

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5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

They could have put a bayonette on top of a rifle (that's still a gun) making a spear (or a great axe or whatever the form of the blade would allow) instead of a Greatsword blade on top of a gun for a "gunsaber".

Yup ... could have done lots of things. I'm not debating what they could have done because I don't see any value in that. They have to make SOME choice right?  They decided to be a little different, which is typical for Anet from what I can see. 

I mean, if the point of the thread is that Anet is wrong in their choice, that doesn't make sense. It's their choice to make. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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52 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup ... could have done lots of things. I'm not debating what they could have done because I don't see any value in that. They have to make SOME choice right?  They decided to be a little different, which is typical for Anet from what I can see. 

I mean, if the point of the thread is that Anet is wrong in their choice, that doesn't make sense. It's their choice to make. 

They can be wrong. There is such a thing as making the wrong choice, even if it is their choice to make.

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7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They can be wrong. 

Well in this case, they aren't because it's a self-determination and they control the concept and the design. What is the criteria for how wrong this choice is? Who holds that responsibility to set those criteria? Who makes the assessment against those criteria to see if they meet them? It's all Anet. 

Of course, you can convince yourself your own criteria, method and assessment is more relevant ... but it wouldn't make it true. 

 

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well in this case, they aren't because it's a self-determination and they control the concept and the design. What is the criteria for how wrong this choice is? Who holds that responsibility to set those criteria? Who makes the assessment against those criteria to see if they meet them? It's all Anet. 

Again, if the point of the thread is that Anet is wrong in their choice, that doesn't make sense because any choice they make is just as relevant as any choice anyone else wants. The only difference is that they have the control of the concept and the design, so it will be the way they want it. 

 

The only thing that dictates whether Anet was wrong or not is whether the customer base agrees with it.

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21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The only thing that dictates whether Anet was wrong or not is whether the customer base agrees with it.

... and it's your opinion that so many people will not agree with this concept/design decision that it will affect them adopting Bladesworn at such a low level that Anet must change it ... AT THIS TIME? I'm pretty certain that won't happen. I'm pretty sure that as long as it has good skills and works well and people have fun with it, people won't be basing their decision to adopt Bladesworn based on the fact that the Gunsaber isn't some other combination of GunX or GunY. 

... but I guess we will see in two years if Anet does or doesn't change Gunsaber to some other weapon. Again, the purpose of this thread is to get Anet to do what? Throw away all the work they did on Gunsaber concept because some people think there are better choices to combine a gun with a weapon? Does anyone honestly think that would happen? 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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See, instead of elaborating with their choices, they prefer to give us vague explanations "ah, the gunsaber looked cool" as to not spoil the story plot somehow (or well that's what they hint every time they speak for any new espec, but never go too much into detail in what led them to their decisions). 

 

Story, or not, this is the exact lack of communication people accused of anet, especially in the time since the EoD preparation up until freaking end of July!!! The betas are not real betas if the customer feedback isn't used meaningfully. That's part of marketing strategies. And no, it's not all about hoards of new people. A single 'hardcore' fan can fund the game more than 10 new accounts ever will. 

 

Take apple for example and the Apple diehards. You make a reputation with your name, be it customer communication or anything else. 

 

Beta 4 will be the real big thing. Supposedly the only actual beta that should have happened around end of summer if they had their priorities right. Because with the 3 actual conceptual Alphas, they would have time to gather feedback, a more laidback schedule since they would build the specs with the community (to a degree) and then actually implement their ideas/better suggestions for a final beta, having enough time to polish for release in February. 

 

But then again layoffs go brrrrrrr let's hire back staff members who abandoned the studio for failed projects that flopped and now try to grab on the ship they jumped off from.. 

 

 

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On 10/25/2021 at 2:23 PM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

If you can make any weapon into a kit and have us use it, why stick to a Greatsword ? We already have that. 

 

Why not make the kit a Greataxe? Imagine that! I tell you a greataxe kit with actual gap closers, some utility and dps and boom perfect kit. Cool factor +100000000000000

 

Because Warrior needed some more DPS elites and trait lines...

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1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

See, instead of elaborating with their choices, they prefer to give us vague explanations "ah, the gunsaber looked cool" as to not spoil the story plot somehow (or well that's what they hint every time they speak for any new espec, but never go too much into detail in what led them to their decisions). 

so are you implying that Anet is somehow hiding something from you, like they have found the Fountain of Youth and the answer is laid bare by giving a more elaborate explanation of their choice for Gunsaber? 

... or maybe ... it's more likely that their choice here ISN'T a point for debate with them and it's a done deal?

The fact is that the level of detail where Anet explains every little step in their decision to develop a Gunsaber isn't relevant here. What is the purpose on Anet elaborating on this choice to you or other players? Like ... it's a frikking Gunsaber ... it's done. The skins, the skills, the text ... what elaboration do you require to convince you Anet isn't hiding something from you? These conspiracy theories are pretty obtuse. The fact is that we don't need ANY elaboration. Hell, they COULD just tell us nothing and it gets released ... but yeah, continue implying Anet doesn't communicate properly with us .🙄

We aren't part of the concept or the development. People need to understand that and get over themselves ... like somehow Anet can't develop a game properly without implementing the ideas of 1000's of players. They have, they can, they will ... 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

so are you implying that Anet is somehow hiding something from you, like they have found the Fountain of youth and the answer is laid bare by giving a more elaborate explanation of their choice for Gunsaber?

... or maybe ... it's more likely that their choice here ISN'T a point for debate with them and it's a done deal?

I mean, what is the purpose on Anet elaborating on this choice to you or other players? Like ... it's a frikking Gunsaber ... it's done. The skins, the skills, the text ... what elaboration do you require to convince you Anet isn't hiding something from you? These conspiracy theories are pretty obtuse. The fact is that we don't need ANY elaboration. Hell, they COULD just tell us nothing and it gets released ... but yeah, continue implying Anet doesn't communicate properly with us .🙄

You do you, I do me. I don't rly care about the gunsaber itself, I care about the spec. And it just so happens the gunsaber is the spec. 

 

And no they don't communicate. A post saying 'here are the new elite specs' is not communication. Let's talk about how anet revealead fundamental espec info to third party whatever sites instead of a dev making the discussion here in the forum and asking people what they expect. You know, use their tools to spread awareness. Go to those third party sites and advertise the forum as a meaningful place to go for feedback, have a very simple yet very responsive dev thread once per a week in the beta phase, telling people that X bug is being worked on, instead of say having Ajaxx from the warrior's sub directly having to ask a dev about a major bug in the bladesworn to get a reply. Stuff the devs could elaborate more on with other specs too. 

 

If you enjoy their marketing and company policies that much, ask for Mod. What I share is pretty evidently wrong from a customer perspective and it's not just me. They have done good work in the past I'll give them that, but they still don't use their tools to the highest potential. 

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8 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

You do you, I do me. I don't rly care about the gunsaber itself, I care about the spec. And it just so happens the gunsaber is the spec. 

OK ... that doesn't change anything ... I'm asking you why a more elaborate explanation of the process to choose and develop gunsaber is necessary to a player ... other than to give you a reason to stop pushing your 'no communication' agenda? The fact is that no player needs to know that. 

8 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

 

And no they don't communicate. A post saying 'here are the new elite specs' is not communication.

Well, that's not really honest ... Anet has done WAY more than just make a post but yeah like you say ... you do you.  

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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... that doesn't change anything ... I'm asking you why a more elaborate explanation of the process to choose and develop gunsaber is necessary to a player ... other than to give you a reason to stop pushing your 'no communication' agenda?

Obviously for one reason. To see if the idea will have any traction to the player base. Don't worry, my agenda involves overthrowing anet heads and take over the studio myself, I still got a long way to go, wish me luck! 

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

Well, that's not really honest ... Anet has done WAY more than just make a post but yeah like you say ... you do you.  

The streams? That's their promotion for the expansion.. They are obligated to do it lel. Sure it's good, but it can be even better! 

 

An active 1 hour long QnA just like the one teapot hosted for the WvW alliances beta ideas is the way to go. Even then, it was made possible due to a partner of anet. And partners must promote the game yes, but they are far closer to the player base. And if anything, non partner streamers should join and get the questions of their viewers to anet devs' notice live. 

 

That's proper contact. 

 

4th beta may be just that. But it doesn't look like that so far. 

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16 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Obviously for one reason. To see if the idea will have any traction to the player base.

No, it's not a obvious reason. It 's not even a plausible reason. Players don't need to know the decision making process in elaborate detail for Anet to see if Gunsaber has traction with those players. The question was rhetorical anyways ... the answer is players don't need to understand Anet's development process to determine if they like certain developments or not. For players, the relevance is the output of the process, not the process itself.

Edited by Obtena.7952
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14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, it's not a obvious reason. It 's not even a plausible reason. Players don't need to know the decision making process in elaborate detail for Anet to see if Gunsaber has traction with those players. The question was rhetorical anyways ... the answer is players don't need to understand Anet's development process to determine if they like certain developments or not. For players, the relevance is the output of the process, not the process itself.

But that's the thing. The process determines the output. If the process is based on nonexistent data (a 3rd full on DPS elite spec for warrior, with some ammo synergy and not even a single line dedicated to AoE party support options) then it is a problem. All those pre-EoD warrior mains are puzzled with that decision which may look good for those few FF peeps that may come over to see EoD and get the expac, but what happens in long term, when the studio has pretty much admitted through action that mega balance patches, or at least meaningful patches in 'quick' success are impossible or simply not worth the effort? Reworks included. 

 

So if you give out the process ideas of where you want to go, feedback can direct that process to a more meaningful result. As simple as that.

 

Show me your idea, I show you mine, let's see what we come up with. 

 

Not, I show you all my ideas (players), we show you none (anet), here is my idea (anet) we may or may not consider your input at all (beta 4 and release will say). That's how fsr I'll go and give them the benefit of the doubt. But to you, do you really expect them to be able to pull off so many reworks at once? I don't. But time will tell.. It's not like they have abandoned rework projects in the past have they.. 

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58 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

But that's the thing. The process determines the output. If the process is based on nonexistent data (a 3rd full on DPS elite spec for warrior, with some ammo synergy and not even a single line dedicated to AoE party support options) then it is a problem.

Except the process to decide on Gunsaber vs. GunSomethingElse doesn't require players input to provide the data for Anet to make that choice.  You can't say if that process was based on non-existent data. You can't even say if that process did not include player data. You just don't know ... and I have no doubt that since players aren't responsible for the development of this game, that's an appropriate way for Anet to handle players as a stakeholder in that development process.

Again, you are part of group of players that thinks we need to have some significant say in how the game is designed. We aren't needed there. If we are involved or informed at all, it's because it's a nice thing for Anet to do, not because they need us to help them make those decisions. 

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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23 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except the process to decide on Gunsaber vs. GunSomethingElse doesn't require players input to provide the data for Anet to make that choice.  You can't say if that process was based on non-existent data. You can't even say if that process did not include player data. You just don't know ... and I have no doubt that since players aren't responsible for the development of this game, that's an appropriate way for Anet to handle players as a stakeholder in that development process.

Again, you are part of group of players that thinks we need to have some significant say in how the game is designed. We aren't needed there. If we are involved or informed at all, it's because it's a nice thing for Anet to do, not because they need us to help them make those decisions. 

 

I rest my case, so long I keep having fun. But it's tough to have fun when all kinds of stuff is broken. 

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12 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I rest my case, so long I keep having fun. But it's tough to have fun when all kinds of stuff is broken. 

I don't disagree with that ... but we can't assume that players being involved to a greater degree in the conceptual stages of product development fixes that. Players want all sorts of different things and ideas so it doesn't make sense to conclude less stuff would be broken if players were more involved in the game development or had more insight to the process. If anything, it would probably lead to more questionable and conflicting direction from players on how Anet should do things ... and that's useless.

Anet only needs so many cooks in the kitchen. We aren't those cooks. There is no argument for injecting ourselves into that kitchen to 'fix' things. We taste the food, we have opinions if it's yum or bleh ... that's our role. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

... and it's your opinion that so many people will not agree with this concept/design decision that it will affect them adopting Bladesworn at such a low level that Anet must change it ... AT THIS TIME? I'm pretty certain that won't happen. I'm pretty sure that as long as it has good skills and works well and people have fun with it, people won't be basing their decision to adopt Bladesworn based on the fact that the Gunsaber isn't some other combination of GunX or GunY. 

... but I guess we will see in two years if Anet does or doesn't change Gunsaber to some other weapon. Again, the purpose of this thread is to get Anet to do what? Throw away all the work they did on Gunsaber concept because some people think there are better choices to combine a gun with a weapon? Does anyone honestly think that would happen? 

Pretty sure the shitposting we do on this side of the forums is actually read, from all the half baked mechanics that got suggested here and got into the game on other professions, but that is OK. Warriors got Guns Samurai that has no range and maybe it was not functionally needed cause it doesn't fill any new hole that warrior doesn't already fill, but it looks cool. People will have fun with it for a while in PVE till the novelty wares off and find that is the lowest APM build in the game and it is kinda boring.

Also the Gunsabre is kinda bad in comparison to other classes bonus bundles, shrouds, holo forges and all that , but we are talking about visual stuff here and with that you get just one skin and you lose the use of other skins for taking it. Maybe with all the whining we do they might get the idea to at least sell different bundle kits skins in the Gemstore, stupider stuff has happened.


The purpose of these threads in this side of this forum is to suggest things that we would like to see in game, for example Bladesworn is pretty old concept from the forum the 5 adrenaline bar Greataxe warrior, we know that the stuff we write here might not make it in the next 6 months but it might make it in a year or two, I'm fine with that and it is kinda cool that the ideas we give are good enough to make it in the game.   

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