Mechanist Feedback Thread

[Adrianna.3092]

10 minutes ago, Tulki.1458 said:

 

 

10 minutes ago, Tulki.1458 said:

The mechanist is more dependent on its pet than core ranger is.

this... the mechanist is alot more reliant on the mech than ranger is on its pet...

 

the mechanist is the first TRUE pet class in GW 2... where the pet is your main source of damage and defense... ranger pets support the ranger but the ranger can fight without the pet and still be fine... the mechanist without its mech is basically half a core class...

[AsheR.1687]

Mechanist still needs work, but two things stuck out immediately to me.

 

1. Rocket punch activating on mace 3 doesn't work well. Rocket punch stun is redundant with mace 3 stun and feels wasted. Rocket punch also interrupts the mechs other abilites. For example, if I want to use mace 3 to interrupt and set up the target for the jade buster cannon it interrupts the buster cannon. If it needs to stay this way it would be nice if weapons other than mace could at least trigger rocket punch.
2. Overclock signet does not feel worth slotting or using. The 90 second cooldown feels far too long for how much damage the buster cannon does (the damage seems too low in general). I understand summoning the mech may need a longer cd, but it doesn't fit well with the damage of the buster cannon. It would be nice if it had a separate CD for each. If you summon 90sec, if you use the cannon it's 30-40sec. If that's not possible, maybe while the signet passive is active the mech gains the buster cannon as a new ability on a 30-40sec CD. Then if the signet is used it locks the skill for the full 90sec duration maintaining the balance of choosing between the summon or damage.

[Adrianna.3092]

2 minutes ago, AsheR.1687 said:

maybe while the signet passive is active the mech gains the buster cannon as a new ability on a 30-40sec CD.

slight problem with that... but if you have the trait that makes signet passive always up.. it would mean the cannon was ALWAYS active...just something to keep in mind.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

On 10/28/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Mech AI:

- The Mech is slow to respond when commanded...it needs a major core processing upgrade.

- The Mech sometimes get confused with pathing...needs to debug the codes or maybe check the sensors and radar.

- The Mech often times lag behind...probably stuck in an endless loop algorithm or the mechanical joint as malfunctioning.

- The Mech executes command even when the skill requires a target...need to recalibrate the target acquisition protocol.

 

The Mech AI in Beta 4 is very responsive and the Mech stays close at all times. Great update.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Mech Commands:

- The skill needs to indicate that the Mech received the command. Often times I'm pressing it multiple times thinking that the skill is bugged, but either the Mech is slow to respond or it's not receiving the command.

- The skill doesn't indicate if target is in range. So often times the mech will march across the map to execute the command on a target outside the range.

- Suggestion: A visual data-stream sent to the Mech will suffice to show that the command is sent and received.

 

The Mech responds to command well and promptly. However, they should be a visual cue when the Mech is disabled. Maybe a short-circuit animation around the skill icons to indicate that the Mech cannot receive commands at that moment. It's really hard to see what's the status of the Mech even when running solo --- imagine in a group.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

 

Mechanist Traits:

- Top Row -- this row is obviously for Condition build. My beta character didn't get any rune and sigil, but even running the default Dolyak Rune, Quartz jewel and Force sigil, the condition damage is great when used with Explosive and Firearm line. Now if I only have Undead Rune and condi sigils with my Trailblazer armor, I'm sure the damage will be even greater.

This is really a bummer.

Now that I got the runes and sigil, these traits seems to have been nerfed. I suppose the changes to the Mech's stats affected a lot of these traits and not in a good way. It feels really weak.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

- Mid Row -- this is a really good choice for frontline support. The fact that the Mech can shrug off conditions is a big deal.

- Bot Row -- this is a backline DPS support. That's a lot of damage potential. F3 is a must when clearing trash mobs. Assasssin+zerker gear with Dolyak rune, Mech's F2 deals a 10k crit...imagine if I have the right runes.

 

These traits are still good, not as impressive as the earlier beta, but still good.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

 

I don't main ENG but this Elite Spec is so fun that I might have to dust mine off. Some cons (see Issues and Mech AI above) but I feel like this is the only spec that I believe went through some good polishing attempt. This spec is the most complete spec I've seen so far. Kudos to the design team that put the Mechanist together -- now if you would please take some time to look at the Ranger, they need some love over there.

 

 

Conclusion:

- The wow factor from the earlier beta event has diminished, which is unfortunate since I was planning to play this E.Spec.

- Although the Mech has really improved in terms of AI responsiveness, the overall feel of the E.Spec is lacking.

- If the Mech's power level is downgraded, the Mechanist should be upgraded. The traits should also affect the Mechanist.

- The changes to the mace skills and signets are good changes.

- Right now, it feels like I'm simply an observant instead of a participant.

[PaterFrog.5781]

I do like the mech, it feels like it has character. It's a very unique pet, no 'default' character. Basically, it's unique in the same way that Mesmer is unique, just not quite as much. XD

Though I will add, the mech command skill Sky Circus is very boring, not exciting at all. It's almost cringe in it's attempt to look big. Sure doesn't do the name justice. Discharge Array would be more fun as another channel, but a shorter duration one. Maybe even have the mech walk forward slowly?

The mace is an issue. It feels pretty boring, probably because the engage is SUCH short range.

Edited December 1, 2021 by PaterFrog.5781

[Nate.8146]

Beta 4 Observations:

 

Death. Good.

I played in Dragon's Stand. The mech had very little uptime since it was always killed. When fighting preservers and the swarm came to attack us, it was basically 100% guaranteed death for the mech. This wasn't fun and I started to despise the mech as it became a liability. It also loved to stand directly on the wyvern vomit, soaking in all that beautiful acid damage. It didn't do much damage (114 dmg per tick), but it showed me that the mech was logically challenged.

 

Engineer is.. not credit to team?

I tried a support build and I found it very difficult to maximize boons. GW2 combat is all about movement and positioning, and I kept struggling with the mech to apply those boons (too much going on and having to worry about). I only had a couple seconds of alacrity, which barely even caused a dent in my cooldowns. I eventually gave up and just left the mech as a ranged shooter.

 

I see your nerf bat and raise you a wet noodle

DPS definitely feels weaker from the nerf hit. Using the power ranged build, its default attack does about the same damage as my rifle. Not sure if I forgot from beta 3, but the mech function attacks also feel like they take a while to charge up and fire. Combat just felt really slow and uneventful. I then flip-flopped between mech and scrapper. Scrapper actually felt so much more satisfying to play in comparison. Honestly, we need a mech that's a fan of the Rambo movies. I want a mechanical John Rambo to lay waste to my enemies. Don't make me carry my robot! I want the robot to carry me! More brrrrrr, less grrrrr!

 

To Jade Bust or not to Jade Bust, that is the question

The Jade Buster Cannon doesn't feel good at all, especially on a 90 second cooldown. The damage output felt kind of weak when I used it against a few boss fights in Dragon's Stand. It's hard to upsell me on using that elite over mortar, which offers so much utility. If the damage output is a meagre burst that's designed for PvP in a make-or-break battle, sure, whatever. In PvE though, I need more action satisfaction if you want me to fight huge health sink enemies that move around.

Part of me wishes the Jade Cannon would transform the mech into a blaster pistol, complete with the mech jump animation as you hear the chi-cho-chu-che and it lands into your hands. Engineers would have the power of their mech in the palm of our hands. A nice pet alternative as the Soulbeast did for the ranger.

 

You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

The mech still has a tendency to miss its ranged attacks. It will fire at the ground if enemies are on an elevated hilltop. For example, in the Dragon's Stand north lane, right before the gate, some enemies spawn on a hilltop near a rock outcrop. My mech was at the ground level and just unloaded right into the ground. If this were Farming Simulator 22, that grass patch would have a bald spot right now.

I also once used the Jade Buster Cannon at the Stavemaster and it just blasted into the ground as well, which was fun. You know, dps'ing the ground and all. You need to implement some maff skillz here and detect if the mech's firing trajectory will land a hit. And even if you can't, just register it as a hit anyway if they're not in an i-frame. I'd rather the presentation be wonky than have a total waste of damage output.

 

Do you hate slow drivers in the fast lane?

Because that's what mace feels like. I feel like an old man with how long it takes to swing and commit to its attacks. Every time I press #3, I talk to the enemy. I say, please wait a minute while I setup to punch you in the face. Almost there... Okay, perfect, now we can resume the fight. I played the new Harbinger class and the main hand pistol reminded me of how weapons should feel. Fast, effective, rewarding. Bang bang, let's go.

[SeTect.5918]

4 hours ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

slight problem with that... but if you have the trait that makes signet passive always up.. it would mean the cannon was ALWAYS active...just something to keep in mind.

 

4 hours ago, AsheR.1687 said:

Mechanist still needs work, but two things stuck out immediately to me.

 

1. Rocket punch activating on mace 3 doesn't work well. Rocket punch stun is redundant with mace 3 stun and feels wasted. Rocket punch also interrupts the mechs other abilites. For example, if I want to use mace 3 to interrupt and set up the target for the jade buster cannon it interrupts the buster cannon. If it needs to stay this way it would be nice if weapons other than mace could at least trigger rocket punch.
2. Overclock signet does not feel worth slotting or using. The 90 second cooldown feels far too long for how much damage the buster cannon does (the damage seems too low in general). I understand summoning the mech may need a longer cd, but it doesn't fit well with the damage of the buster cannon. It would be nice if it had a separate CD for each. If you summon 90sec, if you use the cannon it's 30-40sec. If that's not possible, maybe while the signet passive is active the mech gains the buster cannon as a new ability on a 30-40sec CD. Then if the signet is used it locks the skill for the full 90sec duration maintaining the balance of choosing between the summon or damage.

I made a post a few days ago with a maybe possible solution but it went under in the 1k posts, time to bump it xD

Feel free to reply, needs a bump anyway maybe, bc overclock signet is in a weird Spot atm.

[The Brainman.6217]

Let's be honest. The change to the pet controls was the only design change to the mechanist. Everything else was just numbers cosmetic. It is absolutely possible to make the mechanist perform well by overloading stuff like the shift signet, but it will not fix any of the existing design flaws.

 

As a reminder:
-> Core utilities still lack a compensation for the loss of  toolbelt skills

-> Stats inherited by the mech means that gear limits trait selection

-> Limited bonuses for the engi from traits, making the engi feel like the pet

[Diovid.9506]

My main points of feedback are these:

 

1. The Mech should be usable underwater
2. Shift signet is currently overloaded. The boon sharing should be a part of a minor trait or a part of the elite signet, as I have discussed in this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105075-new-shift-signet-is-overloaded-even-mendatory/?tab=comments#comment-1523416
3. The Mech shoud scale with your Power, Precision and Ferocity without Variable Mass Distributor and should scale with those attributes more with Variable Mass Distributor, as I have discussed in this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105364-alternative-scaling-for-power-precision-and-ferocity-of-the-mech/?tab=comments#comment-1523497
4. If your Mech is not summoned before mounting up, it should not be summoned when dismounting. 

[Matoro.9708]

Mechanist needs more traits that synergize with old skills like turrets. 

Mortar Kit needs a new model. Turrets need new models. Both can already use existing models.

Mech needs to work underwater.

Still needs toolbelt skills when away.

Mech needs more visual customization.

I think the visual portal from the shift signet should linger longer.

Also, mace feels like a condensed tool kit. That's all for now before bed.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Round 2 of Mechanist feedback :

 

 

After messing around with it a bit, I am pretty disappointed. The golem didnt really gain much survivability and power build is just....not satisfying to use at all. Yeah it still does some damage but this isnt enough at all considering how poor the golem survivability still is. I tried going full ham on power with explosive + firearm trait and it didnt really changed much except make my own Engineer be even more squishy. I decided to try with Alchemy and share some boons with the golem, it is still not enough. My damage dropped a bit but my engineer gain a bit more survivability. Roleplay aside, I see no reason to play power Mechanist over Holosmith which is a shame really.  Pre nerf Mechanist dealt a lot of damage but considering how....everything is centered around the mech being on field, this should be the minimum. Nerfing the damage to that point is a mistake.

 

Moving on to condi build, I tried a trailblazer set and it works much much better than power build. I dont know if it's because trailblazer set is just too good (I mean you get the 2 relevant stats for condi and 2/3 relevant stats for survivability) or the stats distribution or both, but as of right now I consider it to be the only way to play DPS Mechanist. At least with those stats your golem can afford to takes a few hits and you still apply some decent condition (and quite a lot of confusion too).

 

Now the mace, it's....I guess it's ok ? Honestly I just used it for the rocket punch but as a power weapon it's meh and as a condi weapon, it's decent but I would still prefer the pistol I think.

 

I have to say though it is nice to have a "come at me" and "attack" button. 

 

So yeah, I'll add more stuff tomorrow but as of right now, the Mechanist feels kind of deceiving. I mean it has been sold as a spec that you can customize to fit your need and in the end of the day, you only really play condi because it's the only thing it can do well. I havent tried a support build yet.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Alcatraznc.3869

[ShadowInTheVoid.9183]

There is just too many things that don't add up with Mechanist.

 

We're about to go into THE water expansion and we can't use the mech underwater.

Your basically 1/2 a core engineer without your mech being there so your going to need to avoid water at all cost.

Your so dependent on the mech that it's going to be instant death in most area's if it dies 

 

The mace would be fine on core and any other specialisation (and I hope they do open weapons to all specs) but it's a very odd choice to give you a mech to engage close and then tie you to close combat too. Ranged suits it far batter. 

 

You could take grenade kits but you've already lost out on the toolbelt skill that goes with it.

Are any skills apart from signets even balanced for using without toolkit?

[ledernierrempart.6871]

if they add back toolbelt skills when golem is dead people will play without the golem X)

 

joke aside, no toolbelt skills for engi means:
no invisibility

no superspeed

no aoe big burst

no static discharge gameplay (it working with the golem is meh anyway)

no stab except from elixir U in pve and WvW (stab in pvp is too low). (you will not use the stab from the goelm unless you play with support gear stat...)

half of our break stun abilities are not usuable

no heal on heal kit

what do we have to compensate?
an AI we can't even customize the way we want because some trait also gives specific stats to the golem IF we have the right gear.

[DeAdGuyX.5928]

it would be 10000% cooler if, the mechanist's ulti is a Volley of missiles rapidly bombarding a single target, while dealing AoE burning dmg. sort of like Gundams firing thousands of tiny missiles 

[Tails.9372]

Power mech leaves a lot to be desired (especially damage).

Also, in regards to the "mechanist is useless without the mech" topic: traits could use more bonus effects like the one from "Mech Core: J-Drive" ("While dismissed or away for repairs..."), this would be the perfect way to address this complaint and it's kind of baffling how this wasn't their go-to approach.

11 hours ago, Jalad Lantana.3027 said:

VS LEVEL 80 VETERAN ENRAGED SAND SHARK
...
Mech                    2 wins, 1 loss,           match length average 3 minutes

...

Why can't Ranger Pets be designed to perform this well?

The fact that the mech actually lost what I assume to be a 1v1 vs. a veteran is rather concerning. The least thing the mech should be comfortably able to do is to beat downscaled veterans 1v1 without player intervention.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Kodama.6453]

13 minutes ago, DeAdGuyX.5928 said:

it would be 10000% cooler if, the mechanist's ulti is a Volley of missiles rapidly bombarding a single target, while dealing AoE burning dmg. sort of like Gundams firing thousands of tiny missiles 

At least would feel like something new. We already had a big fricking laser elite skill with holosmith. Feels kinda uncreative to give us another big fricking laser as an elite skill, ngl.

[Alchimist.4738]

Design

• Mechanist still has the same issues than it had the last beta, it takes too many things away from the player in order to give it to the mech, leading to a dependence on an unreliable AI, the player being weaken while the mech is offline, and a general lack of options as the player.
• The removal of the toolbelt comes to the detriment of a lot of core skills, and reduce by a tremendous amount the player agency whenever the mech is down.
• The traits for the most part only interact with the mech, leaving the player in the dust, and once again you have to work with less than any other classes when your mech is offline.

Mace

• Rocket Fist Prototype feels worst to use than before. In the previous beta you could use the long stun duration to set-up a combo with your mech, the lower stun duration now stops that. Furthermore, the skill is more reliant on the mech as Rocket Punch cannot be cast by the mech if it's too far away or offline, and the Mechanist already suffers too much from being too reliant on its pet. I do appreciate having more control over the minor trait skills, but it shouldn't come at the cost of the player's own efficiency. I'd suggest reverting back the changes, and have Rocket Punch being moved to an F4 ability, and move the summon to F5. 

Signets

• Both Barrier Signet and Superconducting Signet are extremely clunky to use because they're cast around the mech, and you cannot reliably control its position. I'd recommend for both of those to be cast around both the player and the mech in order to make them more reliable, with a shorter area of effect around the player.
• Shift Signet is great but definitely overloaded, the "all boons applied to you are also applied to your Mech" part should probably be moved to a trait, particularly since Shift Signet has no boon interaction.
• Force Signet loosing the stun breaks and not gaining anything is exchange makes it one of the weakest signet, it needs to have an extra edge, something along the lines of "gain Might for each enemy struck".
• If we're bringing toolbelt skills to signets, it can also be a good opportunity to give them interesting toolbelt skills to give them an edge when the mech is offline.

Traits

• All the traits should interact in some ways with the player, currently only Exigency Protocols (stronger regeneration),  Channeling Circuits (alacrity whenever you apply barrier), and J-Drive (signet improvement and bombardment when the mech is away) give something to the player regardless of the mech, and to a lesser extent High-Impact Drivers (might to nearby allies) and Barrier Engine (barrier to nearby allies) give something to the player if the mech is nearby. All the other traits do absolutely nothing to the player, which means once the mech in down those traits are worthless.
• The other traits should either have some sort of effect when the mech is offline, or have synergies with things the player interact with, being weapon, boons, conditions, dodges ...

Mech Commands

• Jade Mortar still as a very long cast time, making it extremely easy to avoid, making it a ground targeted ability might also help with the mech's aim not being the best.

 

[Aravind.9610]

Exigency Protocols' stronger regeneration is near useless because we don't have enough regeneration to warrant having a trait boosting regeneration in the first place. The only regeneration skills we have are Med Kit's Infusion Bomb and Elixir H which are mutually exclusive and the Alchemy trait Comeback Cure which grants regeneration whenever you remove a condition.

Best to remove that stronger regeneration and make the trait copy boons on the player to the mech, instead of wasting the passive on an already overloaded Shift Signet.

[tetmikem.5608]

The Mech absolutely, 100% needs to be useable underwater.  I cannot fathom why it isn't, there is zero reason to remove it.  

 It doesn't even need new animation underwater.  Just make it float next to the engineer until in combat.  The Turtle's Jade boosters work underwater so I'm sure the mech's will be fine under there as well.  

 

In all seriousness, it is ridiculous to be so hamstrung underwater for no apparent reason.  Surely Dev's don't intend for all Mechanists to have to change spec the second we need to dip our toes in some water. 

[wesly.6497]

Overclock Signet pretty useful signal but skill (Signet Active: Order your mech to fire its ultimate weapon, the jade buster cannon. If your mech is not present, instead your mech is summoned, even if Crash Down is on cooldown) useless in this signet .It would be pretty good if this skill (Signet Active: Order your mech to fire its ultimate weapon, the jade buster cannon. If your mech is not present, instead your mech is summoned, even if Crash Down is on cooldown) would be in the signal Force Signet because in  Force Signet Signet Active: Knock foes away from yourself and away from your mech. useless , Overclock Signet I just did it with an active signal Protection Resistance 3sec in wvw and pvp  It is much more useful to  summon a mech

Edited December 1, 2021 by wesly.6497

[KJNelson.5891]

Would it be possible to have the golem not stand right on top of the mechanist? It is getting in the way of what I am trying to do. It also self-deploys at times for no apparent reason. I really love the power of the golem and the fact that I can place it exactly where I want it to deploy, but I don't want it popping out when I don't need it. 

[ShadowInTheVoid.9183]

27 minutes ago, tetmikem.5608 said:

In all seriousness, it is ridiculous to be so hamstrung underwater for no apparent reason.  Surely Dev's don't intend for all Mechanists to have to change spec the second we need to dip our toes in some water. 

I just keep looking at this and remembering this is the water expansion.  Boats, underwater siege turtles and WATER DRAGON.

 

[Dualumina.1760]

I realize that underwater combat is generally the least used part of GW2, and as a result the devs aren't going to put that much effort into underwater content, but at the very least let the mech join us when we dive underwater. Rangers have underwater pets, Necromancers' minions change into sharks and stuff, just please give us something for our little robot buddy to join us.

[medivh.4725]

I kinda liked that 2 robot suits hanging out at EON near portal. They are rounder and cuter. Wonder if anet can make a way to summon these cool looking metalic sentinels. That are different from jade robos. Maybe they can carry out different functions? Sentinels can guard and defense while mech jade robo focus attacking? Just a thought..

[UNOwen.7132]

Well, lets hope round 2 of feedback goes better. As last time, I'll be focusing on an sPvP perspective.

 

This feels worse. Much worse. Pretty much none of the previous feedback was addressed, and some of the issues were exarcerbated further. It still feels like the mech is the actual profession, and the engineer is their rather underpowered pet. Youre completely powerless without your pet, and the pet is still pretty much the main fighter. But now, its even less interesting to play. With the removal of the other auto skills, and the fact that all of the active skills on a power build are worthless (I want to say except Jade Mortar, but Jade Mortar for some reason just goes completely off-track and misses if the enemy isnt stunned), youre just looking at the mech repeatedly shooting the enemy. And its effective, its just boring.

 

Mace 3 is now functionally unusable because you lose a lot of damage since it forces the Mech to use an inferior skill that does no damage, while also being easily avoidable. Which would be nice if I could just drop Mace, but sadly there is no alternative power weapon I can take with the shield. So I'm stuck with a mainhand weapon with 1 usable weapon skill and the autoattack chain. 

 

And the utilities are not much better. The complete absence of toolbelts means only signets are even worth picking, but most of them you dont really want to use them (unless you go grandmaster 3, which is an option to be fair), and youre just letting the passive do their work. And even if you do use them, theyre fairly basic since they dont have the toolbelt to work off of.

 

Overall, the idea is fun, but it just feels exceptionally boring to play. You just AFK while the mech kills things. Its functional. Good, even, from what I can tell. But its boring. As is the fact that the mech still has no customisation (or arguably even less than before) thanks to the stats in the trait.

 

Overall, I can just repeat the same feedback as last time, as it wasnt addressed, with the addition that the new changes to the Variable Mass Distributor trait, the mechs alternative attacks and Mace 3 were all a clear step in the *wrong* direction. My suggestions are to revert those changes (but keep the new functionality of the minor grandmaster trait), decouple stat selection from traits and put it in a pet selection screen analogue for the mech, nerf the mechs autoattacks in PvP while buffing the active skills, allow active skills to override the automatic skills like jade siphon that the mech would have again, change core reactor shot to track better and do a decent amount of damage (CC doing no damage has been a failure of a design principle and should be ignored from now on) and likewise for mace, change Jade Mortar to track better so that it cant just be negated by briefly running in a different direction and allow the toolbelt skills to be used while the mech is recalled.