Mechanist Feedback Thread

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Mechanist feedback, round 2..

 

Adding pet controls is GREAT.
This is a step in the right direction, but still feels like it needs some additional fleshing out, possibly with ground targeted commands.

Not a fan of removing mech attacks and attaching one to the mace.
Just make those mech attacks easily interruptable so any player command forces the mech to cancel whatever it did and directly use whatever command the player gave. Now you have erased some mech functionality and made another part awkward.

 

Mace changes are not enough if you want it to be used as a condi or power weapon.
Support will use it, but it does not outdamage grenade/bomb auto’s for condi/power builds, mainly because nothing in the Mechanist kit buffs confusion for condi, and power still lacking damage modifiers.

 

Reduced recharge on mech summon is a GOOD STEP, but it should be even shorter.
30 seconds max.

 

Many traits are still tied to allowing the mech to inherit player stats. This limits trait diversity.
Make stat inheritance a base functionality or reduce the amount of traits needed.

 

Superconducting Signet and Overclock Signet got good changes but still need more.
I don't want to use the same 4 kits that I have been using since 2012 if I want to play condi. This means Superconducting Signet needs to beat out grenade/bomb/flamethrower, and Overclock needs to be better than Mortar.

 

Shift signet is overtuned and will likely be mandatory.

Movement speed, teleport for both me and mech, condi removal, and copies my boons to my mech?  How much can you possibly pack in a single skill?

 

Traits are still overly mech centralised and almost never give something to the Mechanist. 

Every trait should enhance the Mechanist as well, even if the buff is small.

Mechanist should have access to some form of toolbelt skills when the mech is not summoned.
Without the mech you are dead in the water. We need something to compensate for this.

 

Crisis Zone is now even better, same goes for Discharge Array.

Like it.

 

Single Edged Cutters nerf, was it needed?

I am not convinced.

 

Make the mech useable underwater

How hard is this to implement?
It would go a long way...

Edited December 2, 2021 by Wielder Of Magic.3950

[Derriel Crowheart.5617]

Really like the mechanist, After the nerf/changes of beta 4 things spicied up a bit in a good way, gonna preorder  soon :)

[Wolfmother.4098]

I'm quite liking the mech. It's one of my new favorite builds. 

Pets are win for me so long as the A.I doesn't screw with game mechanics too much (like pathing etc.)/

[Draveius.3512]

What I liked was the versertility of the golem I could see it work with a bunch of different builds right away where with others I stuggled to see the possibilities, really feels like a customizable golem so well done so far

Things I didnt like?... Mostly I didnt like how the animations were a bit glitchy and that the idle animation is it just standing there, tho its a beta so I think that will get ironed out later

Maybe make the golems elite beam a bit grander looking, its a bit thin and the Holosmiths elite felt more powerful

Also could you make it so the golem can be used underwater? Or make the depth charges more spamable?

Cant wait to see what you do with it

Edited December 3, 2021 by Draveius.3512

[Roo.2037]

Though I love the concept of the spec, I don't quite like how the golem feels in this beta, we pay a heavy price by losing the toolkit skills and this doesn't make up for it that well.

1. Please consider making the golem inherit all our stats by default, it's skills are modular enough. The golem's stats are low after the change and this limits how we can make our builds to just what the golem can take. Our Power stat being completely unaccounted for feels really bad.

2. Please move the rocket punch from Mace 3 to any weapon 3, putting it there was a mistake, it hurts build diversity further. It had problems, but I kind of miss it being used automatically, it was quite flavourful that the golem had it's own moveset.

3. When the golem dies, and that is bound to happen with it's goofy AI and lower survivability, we are left with a castrated core Engi. Please consider giving us a weapon swap in battle to have anything to make up for this time. Also, lower it's respawn timer.

4. The boon share property on the Shift Signet is too good to give up, why not put it on a minor trait? Other than that, love it.

5. 5-target limit on Alacrity kills the spec in 10-man content, as it is right now.

I'm talking from a PvE perspective, if this spec is to be healthy, it will need a big split in game mode balance.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Roo.2037

[Matoro.9708]

So, a PvP build at the moment is running Juggernaut flamethrower with Shift Signet so that the Mech has perma stability making reducing its defiance bar virtually impossible when solo fighting. Maybe this is intended but it feels... dumb. 

[Shinovihna.1526]

To address the issue of cooldown and resummoning the mech, what if instead when the mech dies, the mechanist needs to spend an amount of time to "repair" it? The mechanist must spend time (10 seconds, maybe less) channeling an ability for the mech to be resummoned. The channel time wouldn't need to completed all at once, so you could move if you need to. I'm imagining an animation playing where the mechanist is kneeling in front of their mech with welding tools, wrenches, etc. I think this would not only better represent the specialization's identity but also provide a more interesting and unique gameplay mechanic than simply waiting for the mech to respawn.

[suialthor.7164]

Water proof the mech

Move kits to the second set of weapons (no longer a skill) where we are limited to 1 being active.  This allows us to use all of the trinkets (that work well together) and have some flexibility on the weapons.   Otherwise we're screwed while the Mech is dead.

[Kodama.6453]

General Changes

• Mech usable under water: I understand that this change might take alot of time to develop, but we need clarification on this being worked on or not. The mech needs to be usable under water, there is no way around this.
• Give back higher power stats to the mech, in exchange, reduce the power coefficients of mech abilities. This change is needed because the low power stat on the mech (1650 in full berserker equip) prevents intended trait synergies like with aim assisted rocket and static discharge.
• Med Kit: Med kit will trigger on-healing-skill-effects by equipping, cooldown 15 seconds. Either this change could be made for all engineer specs or just mechanist specifically (you made specific core skill changes for virtuoso, so we can do them here, too). This way, we ensure that traits like the inventions minor traits don't stop functioning while using med kit on mechanist.

Trait Changes

Biggest change being the swap of the grandmaster traits for power and condi. Keeping the signet passive is more valuable for condition builds as it currently is, since you want to use the active for more conditions while using the power signet is very situational. Ability to use explosives traits is better for power builds, since there is just one (very weak) condition trait in that line for a condition mechanist to use.

• Mech Fighter: Passive effect of the shift signet to copy boons from the mechanist onto the mech is put here instead. The mech gaining boons is too integral to many playstyles to put it onto an optional utility skill. Performance of the mech is too dependant on this becoming baseline, so it should be moved here.
• Mech Core: J-Drive: Signet portion of this trait (passive improvement/preservation) removed from this trait. Now gives the mech a chance of 33% to cause explosions. Explosives on-hit traits are now inherited by the mech. Explosion tag added to the aerial bombardment.
• Mech Core: Jade Dynamo: Explosion portion (inheriting explosives traits/causing explosions) removed from this trait. Now increases the effectiveness of signet passives and preserves signet passives while they are on cooldown.

Mace Changes

• Rocket Fist Prototype: Buff the stun duration back to 1 second to enable combo potential with the mech. Instead of automatically making the mech use the rocket fist skill, change this to a flip-over ability (rocket fist prototype -> mech command: rocket fist).
• Mech Command: Rocket Fist: Instead of applying 1/2 seconds of stun, it applies 1/4 second of daze now.

Signet Changes

The changes to the superconducting signet and barrier signet work similar to how scourge sand shades operate. Force signet getting a buff to give more incentive to use the active, especially since in competitive modes it deals no damage.

• Barrier Signet: Projectile block/barrier AoE is placed on both, mechanist and mech, while the mech is active. Allies can just get affected by one of them at the same time (to prevent double stacking of the barrier). In this case, the AoE around the mechanist takes priority, so the barrier will use the stats of the mechanist.
• Superconducting Signet: AoE is placed around both, the mechanist and the mech, while the mech is active. Enemies can just get affected by one of the AoEs at the same time. In this case, the AoE around the mechanist themselves has priority, so the conditions use the mechanist's stats.
• Shift Signet: Passive boon application on the mech removed. A stunbreak shadow step with condition cleaar is strong as is, this effect just made the signet mandatory on too many builds.
• Force Signet: Damage removed from the initial hit, applies a debuff on all enemies struck instead called "blunt force trauma" for 3 seconds. The first time each ally strike this enemy, it deals additional damage to them (additional strike). You and your mech alone can proc this 2 times, but having more allies around means it can proc more often (to a max of 5 times).

These are the changes I would like most to see implemented in the future. However, as many already mentioned, it might be worth thinking of making the mech just inherit 100% of all our stats, considering that we are limited by the gear we wear anyway.

If such a change could happen, the master traits would need to get reworked to provide something besides just stat inheritance. Some examples of what this could be:

• Mech Frame: Conductive Alloys: After using a mech command, gain the buff "charged strikes". Your next outgoing hit applies 3 stacks of confusion with 5 seconds duration to all enemies hit. Confusion damage increased by 25%.
• Mech Frame: Variable Mass Distributor: Whenever you CC an enemy, cause an explosion around them dealing power damage to all enemies hit. Strike damage increased by 10% after ccing an enemy for 3 seconds.

[SeTect.5918]

54 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

General Changes

• Mech usable under water: I understand that this change might take alot of time to develop, but we need clarification on this being worked on or not. The mech needs to be usable under water, there is no way around this.
• Give back higher power stats to the mech, in exchange, reduce the power coefficients of mech abilities. This change is needed because the low power stat on the mech (1650 in full berserker equip) prevents intended trait synergies like with aim assisted rocket and static discharge.
• Med Kit: Med kit will trigger on-healing-skill-effects by equipping, cooldown 15 seconds. Either this change could be made for all engineer specs or just mechanist specifically (you made specific core skill changes for virtuoso, so we can do them here, too). This way, we ensure that traits like the inventions minor traits don't stop functioning while using med kit on mechanist.

Trait Changes

Biggest change being the swap of the grandmaster traits for power and condi. Keeping the signet passive is more valuable for condition builds as it currently is, since you want to use the active for more conditions while using the power signet is very situational. Ability to use explosives traits is better for power builds, since there is just one (very weak) condition trait in that line for a condition mechanist to use.

• Mech Fighter: Passive effect of the shift signet to copy boons from the mechanist onto the mech is put here instead. The mech gaining boons is too integral to many playstyles to put it onto an optional utility skill. Performance of the mech is too dependant on this becoming baseline, so it should be moved here.
• Mech Core: J-Drive: Signet portion of this trait (passive improvement/preservation) removed from this trait. Now gives the mech a chance of 33% to cause explosions. Explosives on-hit traits are now inherited by the mech. Explosion tag added to the aerial bombardment.
• Mech Core: Jade Dynamo: Explosion portion (inheriting explosives traits/causing explosions) removed from this trait. Now increases the effectiveness of signet passives and preserves signet passives while they are on cooldown.

Mace Changes

• Rocket Fist Prototype: Buff the stun duration back to 1 second to enable combo potential with the mech. Instead of automatically making the mech use the rocket fist skill, change this to a flip-over ability (rocket fist prototype -> mech command: rocket fist).
• Mech Command: Rocket Fist: Instead of applying 1/2 seconds of stun, it applies 1/4 second of daze now.

Signet Changes

The changes to the superconducting signet and barrier signet work similar to how scourge sand shades operate. Force signet getting a buff to give more incentive to use the active, especially since in competitive modes it deals no damage.

• Barrier Signet: Projectile block/barrier AoE is placed on both, mechanist and mech, while the mech is active. Allies can just get affected by one of them at the same time (to prevent double stacking of the barrier). In this case, the AoE around the mechanist takes priority, so the barrier will use the stats of the mechanist.
• Superconducting Signet: AoE is placed around both, the mechanist and the mech, while the mech is active. Enemies can just get affected by one of the AoEs at the same time. In this case, the AoE around the mechanist themselves has priority, so the conditions use the mechanist's stats.
• Shift Signet: Passive boon application on the mech removed. A stunbreak shadow step with condition cleaar is strong as is, this effect just made the signet mandatory on too many builds.
• Force Signet: Damage removed from the initial hit, applies a debuff on all enemies struck instead called "blunt force trauma" for 3 seconds. The first time each ally strike this enemy, it deals additional damage to them (additional strike). You and your mech alone can proc this 2 times, but having more allies around means it can proc more often (to a max of 5 times).

These are the changes I would like most to see implemented in the future. However, as many already mentioned, it might be worth thinking of making the mech just inherit 100% of all our stats, considering that we are limited by the gear we wear anyway.

If such a change could happen, the master traits would need to get reworked to provide something besides just stat inheritance. Some examples of what this could be:

• Mech Frame: Conductive Alloys: After using a mech command, gain the buff "charged strikes". Your next outgoing hit applies 3 stacks of confusion with 5 seconds duration to all enemies hit. Confusion damage increased by 25%.
• Mech Frame: Variable Mass Distributor: Whenever you CC an enemy, cause an explosion around them dealing power damage to all enemies hit. Strike damage increased by 10% after ccing an enemy for 3 seconds.

Exactly this, but i would like to also see confusion duration instead of only confusion damage.

Mace also still needs buffs in terms of damage. 

[Tails.9372]

One change I would like to see is a button to adjust the general autonomy for the skill usage of the mech to toggle between tree modes:

low autonomy:

The mech uses AAs but everything else is restricted to player interracions (so basically how it is rn).

medium autonomy:

The mech uses AAs and Rocket Punch / Jade Siphon but its F abilties are restricted to player interaction (so basically how it was in the last beta).

high autonomy:

The mech uses all of its availabe skills and abilities at its own leisure (including F1/2/3).

Also, can we extend the HP bar of the mech a bit to reduce the number of rows (like this)? I really don't like how stacked it looks.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Cisii.8317]

-Mace 3 has to be a 1 second stun so we could combo off it with our mech skills and the mech shouldn't cancel the command skills with his Rocket Punch.

-The Mech takes too long to do what its' told, I literally have to press a command skill 3 times for it to do the skill mid fight.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Kaizoku.1298

[Adrianna.3092]

20 minutes ago, Kaizoku.1298 said:

The Mech takes too long to do what its' told, I literally have to press a command skill 3 times for it to do the skill mid fight

are you sure the mech isn't stunned? it wont be able to do any commands while stunned from defiance bar breaking but otherwise seems to do the commands when i tell it to... as long as its not stunned.

[Cisii.8317]

1 hour ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

are you sure the mech isn't stunned? it wont be able to do any commands while stunned from defiance bar breaking but otherwise seems to do the commands when i tell it to... as long as its not stunned.

It isn't stunned. After mace 3, he does Rocket Punch and then I try to do F1-F3 and it doesn't work. I have to keep pressing it.

[DarkLancer.1902]

(beta 4 feedback)
The re-tuned Mechanist is still awesome, just not unreasonably so.  I like the increased support capacity, and the mech seems more balanced.  I don't feel like I can leave everything to the mech and be fine anymore. 

That said, there are a few issues:

1) Binding rocket punch to mace 3 was a bad idea. People who don't use mace will never see the rocket punch happen. Either bind it to weapon/kit skill 3, no matter what weapon or engineer kit is being used, or unbind it from any player control, but make mech command skills override anything else the mech may be doing. 

2) Having a stunbreak that takes so long to aim that the disabling effect runs out before it finishes casting is not good.  Stunbreak needs to be an instant thing, tap the key and it happens immediately, rather than having to aim the skill first. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

-Add an indicator telling the player when the golem is currently stunned. At time some F spell doesnt trigger so I cant tell if it's because the golem is in animation locked, CCed or something else that prevented the spell to be cast. 

[Jalad Lantana.3027]

Played the Mechanist (The New Meta Pet Class) some more, without using any of the Mech's special skills, it moves way to slow.

I just don't see the mace it's too slow, weak and with medium armor melee is not where you want to be. 

I can kill stuff faster in PVE with rifle or pistols.  Rework the traits to buff those rather than the hammer, it's a non-starter.

 

I realize new devs need to make a name for themselves by coming up with new elites that redefine classes, but go back to the drawing board on mace as the elite weapon which should be a ranged weapon.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Jalad Lantana.3027
Been playing so many classes, said hammer instead of mace, my bad

[Jalad Lantana.3027]

8 hours ago, Kaizoku.1298 said:

-The Mech takes too long to do what its' told, I literally have to press a command skill 3 times for it to do the skill mid fight.

 

Before the damage and health were nerfed that was OK, but with the nerfs, it is really too slow.

[Malus.2184]

It's a good touch that there's more interaction between the Mechanist and the mech, however, this just makes it even more obvious that there's none between the two when the mech is dead.

What I think would be a good change would be to set the cooldown of the Crash to somewhere between then and now, 75 seconds would be a good compromise. 50 seconds just means that the Mechanist themselves are largely irrelevant for shorter. The change would be similar in nature to the D.Va/mech interaction in Overwatch. Whenever the Mechanist use a skill as long as the Mech is unsummoned reduces the cooldown of the Crash by X seconds.

The Shifting Signet is also practically mandatory due to it doing so much at the same time. I would switch the functionality of the Boons being mirrored to one of the three main traits of the Specialisation Tree. This way people would feel like they have a choice in what Utility Skill to use.

I would also change the main mechanic of the Mechanist so it feels less dependant on the Mech to do anything as sometimes you just have a short interaction with an enemy before heading off. When the Mech is unsummoned the Mech Command bar gets replaced with the Toolbelt. The F5 ability is replaced with the Crash. When the Crash is used the Toolbelt  is replaced by the Mech Command bar. All Boons applied from usage of Toolbelt skills is also removed.

In line with this, all the traits of the Mechanist Tree would also have a dual function. As long as the mech is unsummoned they give a small benefit to the player themselves. All the traits have the functionality "Focus: as long as the mech is summoned all benefits from this trait is replaced by the following..."

Edited December 4, 2021 by Malus.2184

[Nate.8146]

Overclock Signet Bug

Just a last minute play test, but I found that if you activate Overclock Signet just as the mech is animating its launch out of the map for repairs, the mech will not be respawned, the jade buster canon will not be fired, and both the signet and mech will be down for their full respective cooldowns.

[Whitemar.8759]

the new spec seems overpowered, during pvp it felt like i was fighting 2 players and not one, i feel due to the experience and others seeing it as well that the damage should be brought down, possibly should be almost similar but a little be stronger then the pets with the rangers

[Adrianna.3092]

1 hour ago, Whitemar.8759 said:

the new spec seems overpowered, during pvp it felt like i was fighting 2 players and not one, i feel due to the experience and others seeing it as well that the damage should be brought down, possibly should be almost similar but a little be stronger then the pets with the rangers

the pet is supposed to be stronger than ranger pets... that is intentional since it is the benefit to giving up so much... if the pet was a weak as ranger pets you would be giving up toolbelts and an entire traitline for basically nothing...

[Whitemar.8759]

do got a point there, one of the experiences i had against this is 2 of them were able to take on our whole team and win, one of the players stated the mech hit them for 11k.

[Adrianna.3092]

3 minutes ago, Whitemar.8759 said:

do got a point there, one of the experiences i had against this is 2 of them were able to take on our whole team and win, one of the players stated the mech hit them for 11k.

maybe in the last beta... but there is no way a mech can hit for 11k now... my mech was hitting at most 2k on crits...

[Ludovide.1967]

I have to say, I think this is enough to make me want to switch out my scrapper support for a mech support. I really enjoy it. In the first beta I hated not having toolbelt skills, but honestly, the mech more than makes up for it. I don't really want toolbelt skills to be honest, especially if they come at the cost of nerfing the mech. The reduced cooldown on the mech was very needed in my opinion.

 

However, some of the signets are now super overtuned. For example, the Shift Signet is a 20-25 second cooldown 1200 range teleport that breaks stuns and cleanses conditions and passively increases your movement speed. Compare that the the mesmer's blink, one of their most iconic abilities, which is a 1200 range teleport that breaks stuns with a 30 second cooldown. Shift signet is simply too powerful. I thought the reason you take the signet is to make sure you and your mech are in the same location, like to do some repositioning on the mech. If it needs to also break stun, fine, but why does it need to be 1200 range? That is just ridiculous. It should at most be 900 range if not 600, in my opinion. But on a more positive not, I do really enjoy the spec and am really looking forward to playing it in end of dragons