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Mechanist Feedback Thread


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So I went to my usual testing routine (drizzlewood meta chain) and i must say that the mechanist is - as previously expected - the second most fun to play from the new batch (shortly after bladesworn).

 

I went with pistol/pistol (mace feels a little weird, its 1 is an melee animation for a range attack without projectile ????) and a condition based mech and the event chains felt great. Mech was tanking well enough and did enough AoE dmg to feel significant even without proper gear. Cooldown on dead is a little high, it forces you to takethe new elite. And a "come to me" button like the ranger has would be really appreciated.

 

But one thing I didnt really get. Did I do something wrong or is the mech really unasable underwater? That would be horrible as then the mechanist cannot be used in any mission etc where underwater content is present....

 

 

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Please let us dye away the green colour of jade on the mech. Get a bucket of colour and throw the mech parts into it. Problem solved xD No seriously, the green doesnt fit to engineer at all. And

Thought here, let us weapon swap in combat as a mechanist please. You already remove our tool belt, so giving us that at least would be nice.

First very noteworthy issue : The name of the golem is given the same limitations as typical player characters when it shouldn't be the case : They cannot incorporate numbers, even if the base name of

The trade-off with the toolbelt skills is weird. But I think it can work out. The feedback about this decision was bad from the beginning and I see you re-enabling the entire toolbelt skills, while the mech is in maintainence/repair, shortly after official launch at the latest. If we had the same team as a few years ago, it would not be much of a problem to work around it. But with the player-base you have created by introducing the Holosmith and the way you have balanced Scrapper over the years, this decision is inevitable. It is sad, but I cannot change it.

While we still have this system, I would like to point out that it favors picking unusual utility skills. For the first time, we can pick utilty-skills 100 % freely. Already found a few neat effects that maybe even have potential for further investigation. Thanks for this opportunity, breaking free of the static toolbelt-dominance.

Mech AI performs a lot better than I have expected it. Very big thanks to all the doomcryers on this board. You have made my expectations so low, I appreciate the AI the way it is right now. 😛

The trait-options of the Mechanist line are also a lot less restrictive than the doomcryers predicted. Cross-line-selection can work out, depending on the playstyle. Already ran a few tests here as well, happy with the results.

Synergies with other trait-lines. Only found one so far, but that thing is quite overpowered. I'll file an ingame bug-report about that. 

Mace is great, even if played on power. 

Looking forward to go deeper into the testing and build-crafting. 

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Problems:

  1. No keybind for "Attack my Target." Why did you remove it without giving a replacement keybind? Similar problem with the new ranger elite specialization.
  2. No keybind for "Return to me." Why did you remove it without giving a replacement keybind? Similar problem with the new Ranger elite specialization.
  3. Very little condition cleanse. Elixir C, Healing Turret, Healing Kit, and Rocket Boots are the only skills that remove conditions and in the case of Elixir C, it loses the toolbelt cleanse as well. No new skills, traits, or golem command skills remove any conditions from the engineer. The engineer is limited to sigil of cleansing for condition removal and must have a Kit skill to benefit from it as this elite specialization does not remove the engineer's limitation of 1 weapon equipped in combat.
  4. Healing Kit's heal skill is removed as it was a toolbelt skill. Whoever thought that was a good idea does not know how this game is played. Every class gets a heal skill to heal themselves with, that is universal.

Summary: Unplayable in its current state because of being unable to quickly, through a keybind, command your mech to attack a specific target or return to you. This complaint also applies to the new Ranger Specialization. I am unwilling to further test these specializations due to this issue.

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4 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

It already has one as well as a passive "Guard" mode.

 

as a button I mean (f4 e.g.) - when avoiding dying I do not tend to click buttons with the mouse.

 

 

No underwater mech is really bad. I know that this type of content is not high on priority but having an entire elite spec beeing completly useless there .....

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After reading more replies and some additional testing and thought, here are the biggest issues I see that need iteration or revision before the next test:

Move mech summon to F5.

Return toolbelt skills while mech is not present.

Potentially restore toolbelt while mech is active (at the very least, F1 for healing). This could be achieved by a mech toolkit, tying mech abilities to signets, or some other method.

Allow mech to function underwater.

Significantly reduce call mech cooldown.

Improve viable variety and synergy of mechanist traits.

Make mace 1 chain end, and mace 3 explosions.

 

Other things that are widely desired:

Provide more personalization to the appearance of the mech.

Fix the mech name not sticking through resummons.

Allow numbers and other reasonable non-alpha characters in mech names.

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13 minutes ago, Never.6014 said:

After reading more replies and some additional testing and thought, here are the biggest issues I see that need iteration or revision before the next test:

Move mech summon to F5.

Return toolbelt skills while mech is not present.

Potentially restore toolbelt while mech is active (at the very least, F1 for healing). This could be achieved by a mech toolkit, tying mech abilities to signets, or some other method.

Allow mech to function underwater.

Significantly reduce call mech cooldown.

Improve viable variety and synergy of mechanist traits.

Make mace 1 chain end, and mace 3 explosions.

 

Other things that are widely desired:

Provide more personalization to the appearance of the mech.

Fix the mech name not sticking through resummons.

Allow numbers and other reasonable non-alpha characters in mech names.

Seems like you accidently double posted, however. 

Mace needs more improvements. While i love the animations (i always loved skill 3 of revenant mace and i have Eureka, so the projectile on skill 3 is extra cool to me), its weak. Rifle is a better option for power and mainhand pistol is better for condi (which is sad actually). 

Skill 2 could get condis like bleeding and skill 3 could get 1-2 more burn stacks. Also the power damage could get increased a bit. 

However i said this already but just wanted to say it again since you put lots of good stuff in ur comment i agree with.

Edited by SeTect.5918
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I think the addition of explosions traits to the mech for Mech Core: Jade Dynamo should move to Mech Core: Jade Drive, as Explosions traits greatly favor power builds. The signet bonuses should be moved to Mech Core: Barrier Engine as this is clearly the support line. 

 

There is no way for one to trigger on heal traits when using the med kit. This removes a lot for the engineer, and could be solved by either returning toolbelt skills when the mech is unsummoned, or by triggering it on F1 as per the usual. 

 

As others have said the tied stats to skills is rather limiting and could be changed in the pet menu. Changing this allows for significantly more buildcraft. 

 

And I think there should be something for the golem to inherit certain Firearms traits, maybe by 50% efficacy, like High Caliber, but this isn't that important. All I can think of for now. The lad skipped leg day.

Edited by Matoro.9708
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Some observations on the Mechanist. Testing these on PVP dummies

1. Mech name gets reset when recalled

2. Cooldown timer on F1 and F3 mech skills are not showing

3. Might applied has no cooldown and continues to stack till 25 and stays there.

4. Aerial bombardment triggers even if you have no targets selected.

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I'll add my thoughts into the growing pile I've read that sound the same. 
The removal of toolbelt skills completely is really jarring, un-intuitive, and un-fun. Losing the toolbelt doesn't feel right.

Other people have mentioned the lack of self healing with med kit (which is a crazy over sight), but it now feels like the original utility skills aren't worth it. 

 

No doubt there will be million suggestions for what people want to see. My takes:

It seems like the mech control was half and half. Half pet, half toolbelt. Where it should've been one or the other. 

1) I feel like the toolbelt should remain as is,  the signet toolbelts skills being made into the mech controls (current 1-3). Heal signet would need a new skill made up, with the F5 as the summon/dismiss button. Pet control in this case would need to just function like Necro minions.

Or, 2) Commit to the pet part. Remove the summon button, if you are a Mechanist, you have a Mech. If it 'dies' its folds into a ball, follows you around and still gives the passives from traits until you are out of combat, or it gets heals. Give it the "attack my target" buttons and everything. You could even throw in the pet window like Rangers get for colours of the mech or something.

Or, 3) It feels incredibly bad to play the Mechanist without the mech. Mech Core: J-Drive has a passive effect that still lets you know the mech is part of spec. If there were more traits like the J-Drive where maybe it ported back in and punched something, or randomly picked one the selected traits or Mech Command skills to activate in a visual way (on a CD). It wouldn't feel completely wasted. Think like Soulbeast, even if your pet is non-functioning you can still merge with it and use the core aspect of your spec.  

I believe at the very least, the toolbelt should come back while the mech is desummoned. Even if the signets are just repeat buttons that activate the signet active. In my opinion the toolbelt is the mechanic that makes an Engineer, an Engineer. This is what would feel intuitive and more importantly, fun.

Edited by Atrossity.3716
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I like the spec, but the Grandmaster actives for the power vs conditions seemed swapped?

Sky Circus is purely melee (haven't seen those missiles go anywhere anyway) and often goes off without hitting anything since Jade cannons keeps them at a distance, yet seems to explode and would benefit from the conditions of the explosive traits.

Meanwhile Jade Mortar is a heavy ranged attack, perfect for use with Jade Cannons and power AOE, but instead seems to be paired with conditions, so you're losing out on the signet passive if you take it.

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58 minutes ago, Gomes.5643 said:

So I went to my usual testing routine (drizzlewood meta chain) and i must say that the mechanist is - as previously expected - the second most fun to play from the new batch (shortly after bladesworn).

 

I went with pistol/pistol (mace feels a little weird, its 1 is an melee animation for a range attack without projectile ????) and a condition based mech and the event chains felt great. Mech was tanking well enough and did enough AoE dmg to feel significant even without proper gear. Cooldown on dead is a little high, it forces you to takethe new elite. And a "come to me" button like the ranger has would be really appreciated.

 

But one thing I didnt really get. Did I do something wrong or is the mech really unasable underwater? That would be horrible as then the mechanist cannot be used in any mission etc where underwater content is present....

 

 

You judge the performance of a new spec by doing a brainless open world event chain without any numbers because you are probably not even using arc?

No wonder this mmo is dying. It does ok but it is basically core engi with some passive dmg. The pet feels incredible clunky and unresponsive. F skills can interrupt each other if pressed to fast and some wont activate unless you hammer that button 5 times.

Also no good way to get boons on golem in a group setting. The damage of the spec is decent if you manage to get boons on it though. It is still very very clunky. Pet just insta dies do some stuff in raids/fractals.

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I suspect I'm the only one who feels this way, but I could do without the mech. I'd really like to be able to use mace on one of my engis, though. Say, is there a mace skin that looks like a claw hammer or a ball peen hammer? Because that would be awesome! But for me, the mech can stay in the bay. With my unseen PHX-1D Phoenix Hawk...

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Yeah, summoning/desummoning is a little glitchy. That said, when it works it's fun.

It does feel identical almost to playing a base ranger though because the summoned golem doesn't feel very unique. It would be fun to have the ability to perhaps enter the suit or ride on it with the f5 key perhaps or something to that effect, so it doesn't just feel like you're playing a ranger.

 

I think that it could be reworked a little bit. Overall though it's a lot more fun than the other two current released beta test types.

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Very good stuff I'm liking where you're going with this class. Just a few negative points for me. Mech management is awkward for me. I would like to have an F1 like ranger does for simply attack my target. Once my mechs skills are all on cd it can decide to go spend it's time attacking something that's not my target which requires some fiddling around with passive mode or return to me to get it attacking my target. I would also prefer that return to me was on a keybind somehow. Also F2 cooldown number is very small and F1/F3 are non-existant, the cooldown wheel being very dark against the skills means it's sometimes hard to tell if the skill is ready to go or not without mousing over. These are the only factors that will put me off playing Mech in the future, otherwise it's very fun. I do hope we get to pick different models for the jade mech, as with bladesworns gunblade I would be disappointed if everyone had the same skin for these mechanics.

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Loving the visuals on the mech and the mech command skills but I would like to echo the desire to at least be able to change the colors on the mech itself.

However I am not a fan of having most of the active skills of this spec placed onto the summon. Waiting for the mech to get into position or to stop what its doing or orient itself struck me with a feeling of "Just let me do it already!"

That said, if anet is wedded to the idea of the mech being a summon perhaps we can borrow the profession mechanic of the Soul Beast and allow us to become the mech? I would rather have a much more active style of gameplay involving the mech rather than leaving it to the AI.

 

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At a first glance: 1. Please make the master and grandmaster traits affect other parts of the mech's appearance the way the first tier traits do, this feel likes a missed opportunity if it is not already in the works. Also please let us dye the mech's carapace at the very least to set them apart from other players' mechs - rangers have a whole load of different animals to choose from, I feel like this change'd help seeing as engineer have just the one mech + a handful of trait variations to choose from.

2. I'd like the attack my target and return to me keys like with core ranger, then have the new skills slot in around those on the F bar. 

3. The loss of toolbelt skills really hurts many slot skills, either a) there needs to be a way to access them with a downside or b) maybe this espec should get weapon swap to compensate? c) would be giving access to toolbelt skills while the mech is gone (but that won't make some specific skills such as the med kit feel much better while the mech is out. Could add an interesting skill juggling dynamic for those that want the option however, so maybe this is best?).

4. Adding my voice to those saying the mech needs to work underwater too.

Edited by Drakonhammer.2148
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The main issue I had was the name. It kept resetting itself, and I do wish I could use dashes and numbers to make something properly mechanical. And while I personally like the green, and it is a JADE tech golem, I can understand people wanting to be able to dye it. Also I wish, so very much, that the golem would inherent our weapon sigils; that would make this thing perfect in my opinion. Finally the mace itself feels a bit...boring. 

Beyond that this is by far my favorite elite spec, ever. Its so good I could actually see myself swapping mains for it. 

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This spec feels awful in WvW. Really outdoes all the other specs in the clunkyness department. Projectiles are slow as molasses. Mech is almost ALWAYS out of position to use the bubble or other proximity skills. Even if you have it set on 'passive' stance. It will not stay by your side. Hit the 'return to me' button and it will take forever to get back to you. You will be dead by the time it gets back to use any proximity abilities. 

 

Build diversity is zero. Almost forced to take signets. Need to burn an Elite slot just to mimic ranger-pet functionality if mech goes down. And you're predictably useless when your mech goes down. 90% of the base utilities are now sabotaged w/o toolbelt's. Not to mention that you still have to deal with not being able to swap weapons. Half the stunbreaks are gone since they were toolbelt's. 

 

"Mechanized Deployment" trait does not reduce recharge of F-skills, hurting the Tools traitline. Other traitlines indirectly hurt since that had traits that used to buff *both* utility skills and toolbelt skills (ie. HGH-elixir recharge). 

 

the list goes on...

getting sick of even listening to the repetitive sound effect when the mech uses its jets to hover over to you. 

 

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Mech abilities really should not be tied to the traits. Just give us a skill selector over the command skills like Utility skills. Picking traits for Skills instead of their effect feels really bad. Being stuck with unfit mech skills because you wanted a specific trait effect is equally bad.


Master traits should not inheret player stats, it just limits build variety. Instead just have the traits give flat stats to the mech so we can have Support Engineer with DPS Mech, or other combinations. As it is, the master traits isn't really a choice you make. If you got lots of power in your gear, ofcourse you are going to take the trait that shares it with the mech, same with condi builds or support builds. You aren't making any interesting decisions here, just repeating the decision you made for your gear set, a decision you already make too many times.

 

Pet AI remains clumsy, especially in pathing, to solve this I suggest an additional Function key (best suited at F1, with existing skills moving up one) that is a Contextual Command skill.

  • Essentially a ground target, no cooldown (or tools trait interaction) 1500 range command skill that behaves differently based on what is within the ground target circle:
  •  If the player is in the circle, the pet will stay around the player, only attacking enemies that the player attacks if they are in range.
     Else if an enemy is inside the circle, the pet will focus on that enemy, following it as nessesary to attack it.
     Else the mech will guard the area targeted, not moving unless the player goes too far away, only attacking enemies in retaliation

That would cover both return to me and attack target without using multiple buttons or forcing us to click on the GUI for the desired behaviour.

 

Two of the Adept traits are essentially "Golem go punch". Consider turning the condi one into flamethrowers to differentiate it from the other and give it more personality. That way we pick the mechs auto attack style with the Adept trait, chosing from Ranged guns, Punchy fists, and Flamethrowers.

 

 

Edited by Are.1326
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In PvP there are tons of issues rn with this spec, I don't even know where to start.

1. 100s CD after your mech dies is an absolute joke, you are basically made entirely useless for a large portion of the match.

2. The lack of attack command and the absence of a keybind for recall has already been mentioned.

3. STUNBREAKS. The loss of toolbelt means the loss of basically half of the possible skills for stunbreaks (Eligun, Thumper Turret, Slick Shoes). To make things worse, the only new stunbreak on the Signet has A CASTTIME. So you can ccd while casting your stunbreak to break out CC. Oh boy.

4. The mightstack on High Impact Drivers is bugged, the might given is endless. Even though this actually makes the build somewhat more useful, this cannot possibly be intended.

5. The mech turns invulnerable sometimes, which can't be inteded either.

6. If it doesnt turn invulnerable, 23k HP is very low for a single pet that can not be swapped out for another like with ranger. It is not hard to burst this down and make the Mechanist useless for ages (see point 1).

7. Breakbar. This mechanis has NO PLACE WHATSOEVER in PvP.

8. AI in general. The AI suffers from same issue as it has with other pets, erratic pathing being probably the most problematic. Also, the mech is overall to slow.

9. Clunkiness of the Mech Skills. The Jade Mortar comes to mind first, but the tendency to vastly miss is there with all the mech skills, especially now that shadowsteps are being given out like candy to every class available.

This is all I can think of now, but probably more issues will come to mind. Overall, this build is only good for optics and roleplaying purposes and fundamentally unsuitable for any competitive, dynamic gamemode.

Edited by Falan.1839
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So far so good, really enjoying it but have just been bumbling around in PvE mostly.  It definitely feels very very strong.

 

As for constructive feedback-

 

-The abilities could feel a bit more impactful maybe (ther certainly are but they didn't feel 'meaty' hope that makes sense)

 

-I agree with most of the posters about that we should get some iteration of the tool belt back when the golem isn't summoned

 

- some more control would be nice, I have seen similar complaints in the Untamed thread.  Perhaps consider putting normal commands on Ctrl, thay would make things which are already good infinitely better.

 

(One last item on the wishlist, the ability to dye our mech would be brilliant)

Edited by GrayHawk.7560
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  • Wrain.6792 changed the title to I dont even PLAY an engineer and this needs to be fixed anet :( please!

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