Untamed Feedback Thread

[Aedil.1296]

Hello, I tried the untamed and it feels like a normal ranger with the ability to use pet skills on command instead of managed by AI. 

Overall I don't see anything new nor really innovative on this espec.

Thanks

[Telos.2359]

Really liked the Untamed concept, gameplay feels overall fun.
I'm one of those who dreamt about a pet spec for ranger because I love their symbiosis with their animal companion and hoped that it would matter more.
I'm very glad this is where this spec seems to be going.

Note : there is still a pet stow button in the Untamed spec but it's in the pet menu now for those wondering. Not sure if it's the best but I just found that. o_o

Visual effects probably need improving as many others have commented although I'm not an artist myself so I might not be understanding the vision that went behind those effects. All I can say is that for regular player as myself, compared to other specs, the visuals look small and not as flashy and cool as other specs.

 

Now... In its current beta state, it is sadly unplayable. Well, it is playable in gameplay perspective but it's really weak in all part of the game right now, according to feedback I've read mostly and some part of my own experience, so... Maybe I'm a bit too quick to conclusions? There is one thing the Untamed is good at : smashing dozens of mobs in open world areas. Granted it's been a very enjoyable thing to do 😄 I've been enjoying toying with the Fervent Force trait and been using different skills combined with the ability to refresh cooldowns with hammer CC's and could take dozens of mobs on my own in open world haha!
But it doesn't sound like it should only do that according to the presentation if I understand correctly?

 

Firstly, I think compared to the mechanist pet, the Untamed tries to take advantage of an overall very old pet mechanic which is in need of love before going deeper into rebalancing the Untamed itself. The mechanist's golem is fresh new and lots of more modern ideas went in its design while the ranger's pet mechanic with its menu and everything is a nice diversity but they're all kinda lacking and only a small handful of them sounds like interesting options. I may be wrong. I have played ranger for quite a time, it's kinda my second most played profession I think but I've made a break of it and some ranger mains and others might have played ranger more than me and have a better understanding of pet's strengths and weaknesses.

 

In general, hammer feels fluid and fast for such a heavy weapon which is very fun and nice but static at the same time and too easy to kite in PvP. It needs mobility or gap closers, something along those line to keep applying pressure or just to be able to stay in combat and not being kited so easily.
Also, as it was presented if I understand correctly, if  you want to be unleashed in PvE as it seems to be where the hammer becomes more of a power damage weapon, then it's lacking in that domain too and needs to be boosted quite a bit.

Also the mechanic that makes you want to stay into hammer is not the best idea, the most fun elite specs have always historically allowed for diversity in your weapon choice so if you could try putting the unleash on other weapons, maybe there won't be THAT much powercreep after all.
I think if the dev team already thought about that and watched the feedback, probably all the signs are pointing toward giving unleash mechanic to other weapons sets.

Personal opinion : Probably doing an entire elite spec for just a bruiser role in some WvW gameplay feels like a bit too straightforward and lacking diversity? There's 3 trait lines so if they are all dedicated to the same role, some won't be used, since we can't pick everything. It feels (to me at least and maybe only to me so I don't know how much it matters) like it's an entire spec for a single role in a single game mode. This is why I liked the idea of peaple wanting different Pet Unleashed skills and am ALL for that too, to give them different roles so that YOU can play different roles and in different game modes. Maybe that's too much work though, sorry if it is.
There might be a need of diversity of play within the spec? Like... More power damage in some traits for PvE players to make the Untamed a viable power DPS spec or maybe some quickness trait for other players? Like giving quickness to you and allies when you apply CC with internal cooldown etc? I don't know to be honest, just throwing random ideas to try and give it more viability in the PvE aspect of the game. I know Soulbeast exist for assassin/damage playstyle whether it be condi or power but an option where the pet is HERE and not removed by the merge button would be a cool thing!

 

Utility wise, imo, more of the benefical cantrips like Mutate condition AND Forest's Fortification should affect the ranger AND their pet like so many ranger skills since that would fit the "duo" aspect of the ranger, the synergy between both of them and since the Untamed is themed around that bond too! 😮
Perilous Gift should be changed. How about making it so that "you AND your pet both can't die and you can't swap pet while it's active" but you give a healing like maybe 4k5 or 5k on cast and then if you (and only you) are below 10%, both you and your pet receive an additional PERCENTAGE of your health back like, 33% or maybe 20%, because your pet has higher HP and fix numbers probably matter less to them or they'll still die quickly in big fights and staying at 1HP is cool but you'll die still as soon as the cantrip ends, so a sort of second breath and the ability to keep your pet alive as well while the cantrip is active can make it so the animals matter more? Also 20% of the ranger's health can still probably be reasonable considering you most often play with 15k to 25k hp? Maybe giving your pet 33% and giving you 20-25% if you're below 10% health when the cantrip ends?
Again , throwing a random idea, perhaps it's bad.

Allow Mutate Condition to be a stunbreak and also to apply its effect to your pet too?
Allow Forest's Fortification to affect your pet as well as you? To make them more durable in large group fights, considering this is what the spec is intended to do if I got it correctly.
Unnatural traversal should maybe be a targeted skill so you can "blink" to target location?

Honestly, this is THE spec I've been waiting for the most even if I'm not ranger main and it was THE theme I hoped for the most.
Personally, I feel the ranger's pet combined with the nature theme makes the class very enjoyable and I'm a fan of nature themes. But taking the pet away with Soulbeast really... Took some flavor away for me so I relied on druid but with the nerfs and the idea that the specs makes you go support only, if I wanted more diversity in roles, I had not much to do.
The Untamed though, if well balanced, could definitely bring that diversity.
Random thought though, maybe adding a bit more to the class mechanic in Untamed in exchange for a more visible tradeoff? To make it on par with Specs like Mechanist who lose the toolbelt for example? Just a random thought, maybe it's bad too!

Well, with all of that being said, this is only my opinion so maybe I'm biased or maybe there are some things I don't get right. Thank you anet for this amazing game, the Untamed and the new elite specs and the ability to test them. I wish you the best!

PS: sorry for potential mistakes, english is not my first language.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Telos.2359

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

UPDATE 10/31: Final Thoughts

The more I played Untamed, the more I enjoyed it. And so, I am sad to see the beta end. 

My initial comments below still stand, although my later comments on might-stacking below have me now moreso thinking that the low base damage output AND low selfish boon generation is really hamstringing the elite. Ability to self-generate 25 might and either some more quickness or alacrity could make  world of difference, whilst preventing it from being overpowered in group play. And to be clear, I mean straight-up trait abilities to do so,  NOT in some self-loathing "tradeoff" trait where gaining these boons makes me lose half my health (I'm exaggerating about 'half health' but this trend of making self-loathing/self-hate traits is malignant, un-fun, and needs to be purged from the development mindset). 

Whereas Catalyst needs a thorough thematic redesign and subsequent skill/trait redesign, Untamed just needs some adjustments and polishing. 

Initial Open World Play Thoughts

TLDR: This spec has a lot of potential, and I increasingly like it the more I think I understand it. It suffers from 1) the characteristic Anet hammerphobia, where hammer skills are both slow AND  underpowered,  2) deleterious differentiations of unleashed pet vs. unleashed player, and 3) abhorrent visual effects.

1. ANet Hammerphobia

The hammer needs more damage, maybe 15-25% more. These improvements must be for both hammer modes. Maybe the autoattack CDs could be decreased from 1/3s to 1/4s, please? My  herald can dispatch enemies faster and with less effort in melee fights. The bar for the acceptability of this elite is what you have already created, ANet - you can't avoid the comparisons.

Edit: Another way to look at the underpowered stats of this build is that a lack of might-stacking capability contributes to keeping this elite in the basement in terms of damage. Alongside a more modest damage stat boost, adding 3 stacks of Might (6s) onto, say, Hammer Slam (2nd hammer autoattack) could possibly allow adequate might stacking to make the solo damage viable, without causing it to be overpowered when in a group where 25 might is provided. (Ranger axe1 Ricochet gives 5s of might on a 1/4s cd auto, Ranger sword1 gives 5s of might on 1.5s cd auto chain; so I'm guessing 3 stacks of 6s might (hammer auto chain is 1.5s) could be comparable, given the long cd's on other hammer skills.)

2. Deleterious differentiations of unleashed pet vs. unleashed player

Vow of the Untamed is bad. Tradeoffs are good, but negative vs negative tradeoffs are bad.  Perhaps replace with: 

• Player Unleashed: "Outgoing damage adjustment: +15%"
• Pet Unleashed:  "Incoming damage adjustment: -10%"

Pet Unleashed skills

• These are weak/underpowered. I understand that they offer some CC, but they aren't disables and they aren't super impactful.
• No variation based on pet type - this removes potentially interesting build choices from the player.

I would rather see just flat modifiers added to a pet's damage using its original skills. This could be part of Vow of the Untamed. It also reduces design work. Then Vow becomes:

• Player Unleashed: "Outgoing player damage adjustment: +15%"
• Pet Unleashed:  "Incoming player damage adjustment: -10%"
• Pet Unleashed:  "Outgoing pet damage adjustment: +25%"

3. Abhorrent visual effects

As many have commented, being coated in sewage green when unleashed is unacceptable. This should have been obvious after years of negative feedback on the unremovable Soulbeast swirl. Instead:

1. Remove the sewage coating,
2. Make the Unleash icons much more distinct (e.g., maybe player icon faces right and pet icon faces left (toward pet bars) - right now both icons face left), so its easy to tell who is unleashed,
3. Still use the momentary swirl upon pet or player when entering unleashing.
4. Done.

 

===================

I have changed my opinion on this elite several times now - initially, I thought it was grossly underpowered and undesirable. Over time, and trying different gear choices, and (I think) grasping the intent better, I have become more and more interested in it. It is still underpowered, but not as badly as I originally thought.

The default gear/traits provided for the beta really seems to hamstring the performance. With the extra beta gear plus some runes I had in the bank, I'm currently using:

• Marauder armor w/Runes of Surging
• Cavalier accessories
• Cavalier Rings
• Assassin Amulet
• Marauder hammer w/Force & Accuracy
• Berserker longbow w/Force & Leeching
• Marksmanship 3-3-1
• Beastmastery 2-2-2
• Untamed 1-1-3
• Utilities: Perilous Gift, Exploding Spores, Lightning Reflexes, Unnatural Traversal, Forest's Fortification

This provides a notable boost in player unleashed hammer performance without sacrificing survivability too much.  Longbow player-unleashed felt pretty good. Switching Ferocious Symbiosis w/Restorative Strikes and using pet unleashed provides a very survivable tank-ish feel. But both modes still are respectively underpowered w/hammer. Learning to use Unleashed pet skills after using hammer3/5 or longbow4 also improved performance some.

Because this is a power spec, any investment in vitality or toughness detracts from DPS, but its melee with no barrier generation, so except for some tryhards or using Restorative Strikes (a DPS loss), you need to invest in toughness and vitality, which necessarily drops DPS.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by TheAgedGnome.7520
List utilities; add paragraph on Might; add Final Thoughts

[Jalad Lantana.3027]

I usually play a Ranger and was eager to give this new spec a go, after running it box stock for some hours in various level 80 zones here is my feedback:

 

* For full effect many of the new pet and ranger skills depend on disable, but Unleashed spec has little to no disable to apply.  Only a hand full of pets have disable skills and those are very brief with long cool downs - what am I missing here?
* The whole arrangement is confusing and non-intuitive

* It's way too piano player, at least add the selection to designate one of the Unleashed pet skills an auto attack.

* As it stands now, I won't be pursuing this specialization once the expansion drops, it felt less effective than my current soulbeast specialty.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jalad Lantana.3027

[Falseprophet.1502]

What if we lost pet swap and whenever we toggle Unleashed it works this way:

1. Unleash Pet: both of your equipped pets are now out. The weird clunky Unleash Pet skills are no longer a thing, where we get additional access to the second pet's skills.
2. Unleash Ranger: damage is increased for the ranger. Vow of the Untamed now increases damage from (15% > 25%)

Thoughts?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Falseprophet.1502

[Gotejjeken.1267]

20 minutes ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

What if we lost pet swap and whenever we toggle Unleashed it works this way:

1. Unleash Pet: both of your equipped pets are now out. The weird clunky Unleash Pet skills are no longer a thing, where we get additional access to the second pet's skills.
2. Unleash Ranger: damage is increased for the ranger. Vow of the Untamed now increases damage from (15% > 25%)

Thoughts?

 

I see both pets dying immediately to AoEs, leaving you with nothing.  

 

If they DO manage to survive they are going to be doubly uncontrollable since they do nothing but auto-attack now unless commanded otherwise. 

 

Essentially, since anet is obviously hesitant to give us access to basic command skills (attack my target / return to me) in a bindable fashion, that means the second set of pet skills would also not have bind ability.  So you'd...have to click them...*shudder*

 

I think we scrap ranger elite altogether (except hammer) and open up the ability to use specialization weapons on any specialization.  Then just rework hammer to work like greatsword but more CC, and we're done.  Then you can get hammer on soulbeast, druid, etc. or staff on core / soulbeast...etc. etc.  

[Quenelle.8524]

Trying to list necessary improvements would be too long as in fact Untamed does not provide interesting mechanics, hammer is bad, global mechanic is bad and traits are bad. As I mostly play ranger and pvp/wvw, I am disappointed and will probably not need to buy EoD.

[HotDelirium.7984]

I hope that when we are downed the pet can spam its new abilities or something to help us out.

[HotDelirium.7984]

56 minutes ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

What if we lost pet swap and whenever we toggle Unleashed it works this way:

1. Unleash Pet: both of your equipped pets are now out. The weird clunky Unleash Pet skills are no longer a thing, where we get additional access to the second pet's skills.
2. Unleash Ranger: damage is increased for the ranger. Vow of the Untamed now increases damage from (15% > 25%)

Thoughts?

or we lose the pet Swap ability and your pet's health cannot ever go beneath 1 if its Unleashed (its connected to that primal earth energy Lore stuff). Just trying to brainstorm enhancements, we need MORE. Either our pet can't die or we have 2 pets or all our weapons for ranger can have an unleashed mode or we gain control of our pet when downed etc etc. Something.

Edited October 29, 2021 by HotDelirium.7984

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 10/28/2021 at 7:48 AM, OGDeadHead.8326 said:

You nailed it pretty much. Unleashed pet not using their normal skills besides the autoattack have to be a dps loss.
 

I think that the unleashed pet should have the special F1 and F3 abilities, but the F2 ability should be a boosted version of their normal F2.

 

Just a few examples of "boosted F2" abilities, what they could be for the unleashed pets:

 

Smokescale F2: Smoke Cloud + deal damage to enemies within range of the cloud

Jacaranda F2: Jacaranda's Embrace + bleed damage

River Drake F2: Lightning Breath + daze foes that are hit

Tiger F2: Furious Pounce (grants fury) + bleed damage

 

I hope you get the idea. Or, use the unleashed F2 in combination with the pets normal F2, that could also work.

I agree, the abilities need to be thematic instead of the generic 3.  Why is my Moa pooting spore clouds, gagging out mold spores and excreting rotten vines? lol It just wants to use its heal skill. lol

[HotHit.6783]

I posted a while back my thoughts on the Hammer after the first day and I've slowly been exploring other aspects to give more complete feedback. I'll start with some things I do love about the spec:

• Grandmaster Traits - Conceptually, each of the traits has a great role. Fervent Force is an incredibly strong payoff for using lots of disruption effects and lead to very fun play patterns and combos especially once core abilities are thrown in the mix, this is exactly what grandmaster traits should strive to be. Restorative Strikes and Ferocious Symbiosis are much more generic, but fun to use and fairly gameplay defining, even if their numbers are very low. I believe the same is true for the minor Vow of the Untamed, this trait leads to some meaningful decisions and trade-offs in PvP.
• Unleash Pet Skills - These all offer fantastic utility and play into the combo focused design since they are all payoffs for disabling a target. I appreciate Enveloping Haze being much more visually quiet as well, so it can be easily seen through, but still being very noticeable and unique. It's just a shame that there are only a few pets that can utilize them.
• Unnatural Traversal, Nature's Binding and Mutate Conditions - Honestly, I didn't have high hopes for Cantrips, they're a utility type that's extremely vague but it's nice to see some skills that synergise well with other parts of the kit. But these three skills work really well, though I'm not sure why Mutate Conditions isn't a stun break.
• Unleash as a trade-off - This is possibly the most interesting thing about the Elite spec. Only you or your pet can be unleashed at a time and there are reasons to want to both modes or to turn off unleash altogether. But one of you has to hold that potato, so you can't 

Despite these things I love about the Untamed, there's a lot that I think needs a "sharper" design.

• Hammer - Even if this weapon's numbers are increased, I stand by what I said originally that this weapon is super boring. It's mostly just swinging a hammer to hit people and there's some minutia to exactly what each CC skill does and exactly what each unleashed skill is powered up by. But only half of the control effects even count as disabling foes. Part of the reason I've been excited for Elite Specs is because there's a chance for the weapons to be as skill expressive as the original version of Ranger Sword. I would love a short cooldown short leap on the hammer (a bunny hop, if you will) to help it stick to targets better. I understand it has a lot of control to keep you safe, but it's strange to see a lack of a defensive skill or a pet buffing skill on a Ranger melee as well. Generally speaking I am a fan of the identity intended, as a low mobility melee weapon with a heavy control focus.
• Every other trait - I might love the Grandmasters, but the other tiers of traits are so very incidental. You get some health, you cleanse 1 condition when you unleash swap, you get 3 seconds of stability when you've just stopped your foe from hitting you or it's quickness when your hammer isn't allowed to trigger this trait. Enhancing Impact and Debilitating Blows have a 1 second cooldown, so they don't match Fervent Force and aren't triggered twice by Overbearing Smash. Maybe I'm just expectant of traits doing a lot more since the Specialisations update? But the first two trait choices and Natural Fortitude all don't excite me at all.
• Every other cantrip - Not every skill can fit on a skill bar, but I seriously don't see myself equipping any of these. Forest's Fortification has too long a cast time for a purely a defensive cooldown. The dream would be to dedicate a build to get permanent uptime, but that isn't close to possible. I believe this skill should be a stunbreak strengthening it as a defensive elite skill, while Rampage as One is the proactive stability elite skill, the other elites would also have completely different identities. I don't want to cast Perilous Gift and Exploding Spores is either a really hard to hit Spike Trap with a lower cooldown or a much weaker Frost Trap.

Things I strongly dislike about this elite spec:

• What counts as disabled - Probably my biggest gripe is that immobilized is not in the list of disables, but Daze is. It's arguable which is better at setting up follow-up attacks (since block/evade skills can't be used while dazed but immobilize prevents movement and dodging), but the most unique part about Ranger control focused builds is the heavy amount of immobilize compared with other professions. This is especially true for some of the pets, Fanged Iboga, Jacaranda and the Spiders in particular. I feel like everything in Untamed that is empowered by disables should be empowered by immobilize as well (the traits should probably not trigger off of it because then Entangle would never stop). This would also help a little with my second gripe...
• No application in Strikes/Raids/Fractals - Sure not every spec has to be for everyone, but from a PvE perspective, this spec is overloaded on something that we have never been wanting for in that content (defiance bar damage) and struggles to apply its combos and damage modifiers on bosses. (Assuming the numbers were high enough) It would likely only see use in compositions looking to abuse the exposed damage window, just like the Sic 'em Soulbeast spam strategies. The PvE builds I have seen with any effectiveness never unleash the pet because they would be locked into an effective -30% damage modifier and can't use the Unleashed hammer skills for 10 seconds. Or they never unleash themselves because they're making the most of Fervent Force. There's no practical reason to bring Untamed to this content instead of Core Ranger and that isn't allowed because you could eat your cat.
• Pet controls - It's important for the unleash skills since they're all heavily timing focused to have the UI that they use, but it's practically a downgrade for most standard pets. Rangers have found a lot of ways to manipulate pet cooldowns with the standard commands and understand their pets' AI. Soulbeasts will unmerge with their smokescale and interrupt Unrelenting Assault with an attack command for an instant Knockdown. With this UI, there isn't a clear indication that a command was received and there's no way to order the pet to attack without burning cooldowns. I believe we should get new keybind options for standard pet commands (attack my target, return to me, stow, passive/aggressive) that could be reused across professions, even those without a dedicated companion interface like Necromancer and Elementalist. Other MMOs I've played (Shin Megami Tensei, Final Fantasy X|V, so all of the other good MMOs I've played) have generals skills for such commands that you can put on your hotbars, but a keybind not represented on screen would be fine. The main benefit to this new UI is that my Birds won't use Quickening Screech, which is something I've wanted for years!

Edited October 29, 2021 by HotHit.6783
Formatting

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I hope that when we are downed the pet can spam its new abilities or something to help us out.

 

I tested it, the Pet does NOT use any abilities when we are downed if we are playing Untamed, so Untamed is the worst spec we have out of all 4 for when we are downed, it actually nerfs us. 

It would be great if it automatically unleased your pet and they used their F3 when you call them to start rezzing you, that would be special, but no, it does not.  They don't use their unleased abilities or their normal abilities when you go down, and you cannot use them when you are down. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[Teratus.2859]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:48 PM, OGDeadHead.8326 said:

You nailed it pretty much. Unleashed pet not using their normal skills besides the autoattack have to be a dps loss.

I've seen a few people make that statement as well as YT content creators.

It's kinda made me want to play the spec by starting battles with pet unleashed so I can access the 3 pet skills, use them in one go and then swap the power over to my ranger instead and just blast enemies down with a longbow while the pet holds the aggro.

It doesn't really encourage the hammer use tbh since the only big sell of the hammer is CC and well, with on command pet skills Ranger just got a ton of access to on command CC anyway.
The spec is kinda sold as use hammer to daze and keep enemies off balance with CC and pet go rawr..
But frankly with the great CC access on pets now it's actually better to use pets to keep enemies off balance with CC and ranger go smack with a greatsword or pew pew pew with longbow or something instead lol

Outside of that initial pet shadowstep into combat and spamming the other 2 pet unleashed skills I just don't see any reason at all to keep the unleashed buff on the pet.

[Wiegrav.5729]

The untamed as an addition, does provide a more pet centric based ranger, which is fun, and easy to use.  The problem is that compared to the other ranger specs, it does feel a little underwhelming, and the hammer was a rather odd choice.  I am honestly surprised that we haven't seen any new weapon types for the use of the new specs, such as:  Crossbows, Polearms, Claw weapons, or even a martial arts styling (Daredevil has some.)  Which this would make even more sense, due to the fact that we are FINALLY returning to Cantha!

[anna.5487]

Quite Bad. A normal ranger plus healing on hits.

MECHANICS

Things have been said. Button to the pet, auto-attack on cooldown possible for some pet skills. There should be different attacks in the unleashed state depending on the pet.

There should be unleashed skills on EVERY weapon. Hammer, as it is now, is bad anyway.

HAMMER

It should have a gap closer and a block or mitigation. It does not synergize with other things. With Predator's Onslaught, from marksmanship, for instance. The time you cc on hammer and swap on unleashed to do the damage, it's gone. Make the CC longer or put cc on unleashed hammer too.

SKILLS/CANTRIPS

I haven't found a single skill worth equipping.

Perilous Gift  - too big cooldown for a healing. A gimmick to heal with a bear, for big health. Troll unguent or We heal as one are way better, properly traited. Commands also, can regen a lot. Not worth it. Make it instant?

Unnatural Traversal - So and so. The skill gap offers no utility whatsoever. Vuln is too small. A daze or stun would have worked better. So in PVE is irrelevant, in PVP will sacrifice a slot that can be used for better things.

Exploding Spores - not enough damage. Cripple, meh. Knockdown only if all hit? Seriously?

Mutating Conditions - Wilderness Survival traited skills are better, the Druid entering his healing thing too. 

Nature's Binding -

Forest Fortification -  the best so far, but too long cooldown. Obliges to take the cooldown reduction trait. Make it instant. The Strenght of the pack offers more value.

 

BUGS OR BAD DESIGN

Wilting strike and Beastly Warden trait from Beastmastery doesn't work on Unleashed pet skills. Why? If it's intentional, it's an abysmally not smart idea. IT WORKS ON MERGED SOULBEAST. You can double taunt on SB. It should be the same here.

Blinding outburst does what Go for the Eyes does. If the Unleashed pet abilities worked properly, as above said, there is no need for Blinding outburst. Lack of imagination for good traits?

Invigorating bond - same

And the worst thing is the choice between - 15 % damage or +10 % incoming damage. It S*cks big time, especially because there IS NOTHING TO MAKE THAT WORTH IT.

[FalsePromises.6398]

I won't pretend I've really mastered untamed, ranger's really been not-my-thing as of late, but with enough promise it might get me back into ranger if the hammer unleash flip-skill mechanic is spread to all weapons. Ranger power mainhanders DEFINITELY need a pick-me-up in that regard: one of the reasons I left ranger was because nothing really worked satisfactorily alongside offhand axe, even mainhand axe (since the 2 skill was purely condi). Unleash skills on sword and axe mainhand turning their respectively defensive and half-condi kits into dedicated, aggressive power kits would ABSOLUTELY make me play ranger seriously again. 

 

That said, I wanted to say... please adjust the color scheme of untamed. It looks too dark green/brown  on everything, it just makes me think of vomit smeared on every single skill they cast. Add more of that light green on the hammer skills into the color palette of their utilities, reduce the amount of green stink haze on them too, and it'd offset that. If dark theme is a non-negotiable because of lore, then maybe make it a green and black style instead of this constant vomit-green-brown-ish color. Also, maybe making the unleashed overlay effect not disrupt the player's armor/outfit would be in order? Maybe like a small vine aura around hands/feet (thinking of those grappling vine mastery items from Draconis Mons), glowing/smokey eyes, and a slight radiating glow instead when affecting the player? Maybe the pet too, so enemies can discern what exact pet they're fighting against when it's unleashed. 

[Prismatic.2084]

Pet:

Would like to toggle auto-attack on pet skills.

Would like to see different unleashes based on pet family.

Weapon:

Would like to see unleashed skills on other weapons (at least one skill changed per weapon).

 

Cosmetic:

Would like a faint green glow or aura instead of skinning over the entire character. 


Thank you for your consideration & looking forward to seeing the new pets! 😄

Edited October 29, 2021 by Prismatic.2084

[RedAvenged.5217]

It’s ok at team fighting in pvp. Build diversity is low. Some traits have poor synergy with u leashed- a start to fix it would be to buff conditions in pet unleashed mode.

condi damage would be nice other than that it’s fine

[StormCleric.2843]

Okay. On day 1 when I spawned into the world and went somewhere to test it out, I had so much fun. It totally just clicked with me. And then, I started seeing everything wrong with it. But before that, I'll start out with the good. I love the hammer. It was so fun to just run around and smash things with two different sets of skills for one weapon. I also loved the fact that we got real lore behind the spec and how it came to be, and that lore was interesting too. The concept of the spec was also really intriguing, with the fact that we get a pet focused spec that bounces this primal energy between ranger and pet. All that being said, I think the untamed just fell really short of where it could be. I think the actual mechanic of it is where my biggest issue lies. While you are switching between skills with the unleashed form and getting new skills for your pet, it just doesn't feel like we have that pet-centered spec we've always wanted. It almost felt as though when the ranger was unleashed, they had this cool mode like druid's celestial avatar. But then, it switched to the pet and it was as if we were saying "Here, hold this for a second." I felt like the pet had no real interaction with the mode  other than a few skills. It should've gotten some kind of buff or something to make us want to switch the unleashed to the pet, besides the reason that we want to use different skills with the hammer. Going back to the pet skills, with soulbeast, the pets were classified into types to determine what kind of skills would be available. I think that same concept should come back so that each type of pet has a different skill set so we can really customize our gameplay. Circling back to the profession mechanic (I know, this is super hard to follow), but I HATE the fact that unleashed only applies to the hammer. I mean, if you're gonna do that, at least give us some kind of buff to compensate. And it could literally just be one skill for the other weapons. Now, I get that with these elite specs, it's supposed to add something unique to the table. But it just didn't click with me. Cantrips were fine. I didn't love them, but I didn't hate them. Overall, I think this spec has SO much potential, and it felt really nice to play with and well-tuned (to me, at least). It just needs more work on the concepts and execution of the profession mechanic.

[vrauns.3215]

Stow your pet is now in the pet management window which is a weird spot to put it.

[vrauns.3215]

Ive tried this elite spec and to be honest, it's terrible, one of the worst out of the 9, hammer is useless, you can't use other weapons with unleashed, it's not even good in pve, something has to be changed before this gets released in feburary, if it dosen't, i don't see anyone ever playing ranger again and it would be a shame to see it die like that.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

9 hours ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

I have changed my opinion on this elite several times now - initially, I thought it was grossly underpowered and undesirable. Over time, and trying different gear choices, and (I think) grasping the intent better, I have become more and more interested in it.

The default gear/traits provided for the beta really seems to hamstring the performance. With the extra beta gear plus some runes I had in the bank, I'm currently using:

• Marauder armor w/Runes of Surging
• Cavalier accessories
• Cavalier Rings
• Assassin Amulet
• Marauder hammer w/Force & Accuracy
• Berserker longbow w/Force & Leeching
• Marksmanship 3-3-1
• Beastmastery 2-2-2
• Untamed 1-1-3
• Utilities: Perilous Gift, Exploding Spores, Lightning Reflexes, Unnatural Traversal, Forest's Fortification

This provides a notable boost in player unleashed hammer performance without sacrificing survivability too much.  Longbow player-unleashed felt pretty good. Switching Ferocious Symbiosis w/Restorative Strikes and using pet unleashed provides a very survivable tank-ish feel. But both modes still are respectively underpowered w/hammer. Learning to use Unleashed pet skills after using hammer3/5 or longbow4 also improved performance some.

Because this is a power spec, any investment in vitality or toughness detracts from DPS, but its melee with no barrier generation, so except for some tryhards or using Restorative Strikes (a DPS loss), you need to invest in toughness and vitality, which necessarily drops DPS. Strength or Battle sigils might be interesting to try too. I didn't have any to test with.

I found zerker gear just fine. Full Zerk, Pack Runes, Tiger, Hammer/GS, MM - 2, 3, 2. BM - 3, 2, 1. UT - 3, 1, 1. Does plenty of damage and survivability is no different to core Ranger with "WHaO" and "Protect Me" on the bar, plus you have a Blind on a 10s CD, Taunt, Blocks and several Interrupts. I couldn't really find a need for Forest's Fortification outside of Warhorn or offhand Axe since the recharge is so long and with a 1s cast time, I may as well just dodge. So "Strength of the Pack" and to round the bar out, Frost Trap and QZ. I did try Storm Spirit too, but you only get to cast it twice before it goes on CD and it's kinda clunky and I didn't enjoy it really. Although it could work well.

I also played around with LB/LB and with Lead the Wind, Quick Draw, Fervent Force and Sigils of Frenzy, it's the ultimate OW roamer.

[Swagger.1459]

My final feedback on this spec.

 

Just looked at Revenant Greatsword skills and Ranger Hammer doesn’t event compare. Look for yourselves and see all the nice goodies on Rev GS, then look at Ranger Hammer. 
 

The team just created another PvE minded Ranger spec completely at this point, and that stinks. Also, there are tons of weapons across professions that outshine Ranger weapon sets, with the exception of LB, so that’s not fun either and it’s happening yet again. I won’t even get started on how the Druid keeps getting the shaft vs all other support specs being handed out, now even Specter is turning out to be nicer in the support department. And condi skills and weapons need some upgrades still, but that’s another story… 

 

Honestly, given all the mobility, all the utility, nice coefficients, and nifty things dolled out to other sets of especs and their weapons… all of Hammer 1 skills on both normal and unleashed should be 900 range baseline. Hammer skills on both normal and unleashed 3, 4, and 5 should be 900 range mobility skills with evade built in. It’s the very least that can be done to make this Ranger spec comparable and able to be valuable outside of PvE land. 

 

Regarding pets… There are so many core issues with them that it’s not worth the effort to put much thought into them at this point, aside from figuring out a way to modify the UI to accommodate for Unleashed skills plus still having the basic controls. 

 

[chemiclord.3978]

33 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

The team just created another PvE minded Ranger spec completely at this point, and that stinks.

I would actually disagree.  Untamed is... in truth... a pretty awful PvE spec.  There is nothing it does that gives it a niche.  In terms of DPS, Soulbeast utterly lays waste to it, and it's not even all that particularly close.  In terms of CC and Break bar damage, it doesn't even hold a candle to Druid.

It's a jack of no trades, master of none.

Edited October 30, 2021 by chemiclord.3978

[Swagger.1459]

18 minutes ago, chemiclord.3978 said:

I would actually disagree.  Untamed is... in truth... a pretty awful PvE spec.  There is nothing it does that gives a niche.  In terms of DPS, Soulbeast utterly lays waste to it, and it's not even all that particularly close.  In terms of CC and Break bar damage, it doesn't even hold a candle to Druid.

It's a jack of no trades, master of none.

I agree, it’s subpar overall. I’m sure there will be some fun moments in open world PvE where you can just spam 1-5 hammer AoEs to tag mobs, but that’s about it. Even then, I’ll just roll with a Necro using staff for that from 1,200 range and save myself the headache of eating damage.