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Untamed Feedback Thread


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6 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

That's a player problem if you ask me. On demand CC (or, as much on demand as it gets with these AIs..) is a lot stronger than the pet doing it automatically after a swap. There are very few skils I'd rather have the pet do automatically. Then you have stuff like the bird swiftness which you can finally ignore completely.

 

Stronger on paper yes, but can a player actually keep up with the same efficiency the AI can? 

I'm not sure they can, because so far on the forums I haven't seen any complaints about pets becoming OP again because untamed can control tail swipe and the like. 

One would think this is the first place that would be hammered with complaints if pet control was 'strong'--but in fact its been the opposite (many complaints of DPS loss because pet only AAs now).  

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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General feelings :

I did not expect to be so on point after the preview. Like I said it feels like there is a mixt of corruption and physical skills, both concepts are great and have good ideas, but in the end you miss not being able to fully commit to one. This makes it hard for me to give feedbacks, I would love to have a corruption aspect but it would need to be a full kit, not just 1 or 2 skills. The spec has a lot of drawbacks making it hard to play. (Big lol those who thought it was going to be strong and did not pay attention to the drawbacks). It will be fun in open world but right now it will require more time and some changes to see it in PvP.

  • sPvp:

It was fun but I did struggle. There is a lot of management. Dps pets are still something to avoid mid because they still die quite fast and can do less than before if you are not pressing skills all the time (except birds because they stop to use screech). At least I had fun with wolf / bear / wyvern. I tried an immob build which was ok but guard / necro make it look so weak, an aoe build but it does not have enough pressure / sustain compared to other professions or a duelist (gs / sword) with lifesteal but it also was hard to pull off and had the same issues as core. I have seen some people trying condi which probably was easier to play but, just like willbender symbol, does not look like this is what the balance team had in mind. Right now I do not see it as a true bruiser / mid fighter spec.

  • Pve Golem:

It had more dps than I expected but was never meant (and never will) compete with soulbeast so this is fine.

  • Pve open world:

I played with hammer, spores, frost trap, lifesteal and it had a decent damage + a decent sustain.

 

Detailed impression

Pet mechanics :

I had the same issues with mechanist and untamed. I do not see the time on F1 and F3 when they are on cd, I have to semi guess with the icon. Also like the F2 on ranger, sometimes the skill does not want to go off.

The untamed pet skills are great but limited. F1 is good. F2 is a nice idea but does not feel that good since you do not have a lot of boon rip / corruption. Even with the trait it only felt great when corrupting a stab. For the F3 it took me a while to understand what was the issue. The pet will stop moving and attacking or will interrupt the skill if you ask him to do something else. Why is F3 an immobile channel? Nothing mentioned it in the tooltip. Also when pet is untamed it gets some new cool skills but what else? It does not look tankier, does not look like it deal more damage.

 

  • Hammer :

Once a more big lol to all the people trying to meme with ranger warrior. It does some good damage in PvE. I will need more time to test it and get used to the swap mechanic but because it happens every 10s at best, the combo are not something I will do often. In pvp the skills have a small range, no movement, so they miss a lot and there is not much defense. (I would need more time testing but I quickly went for gs because I felt the need to survive longer). I did not even notice that I was never going the full way with hammer 3 until I watched a video from Kroof (you cannot move during this skill or it interrupts the second part). 

 

  • Traits :

They were kind of weak / unexciting. Get some buff / debuff. Nothing seemed like it would totally change my playstyle.

Minors : Untamed mode is really hard to keep track of especially with all the new skills and the other minor. It might be better with time. Extra vitality is ok (not exciting but not bad). Vow of the untamed. When I talked about drawbacks after the preview I knew it was going to be hard. But I was so far, so far from expecting to melt like that. A single press of the untamed mode can destroy you, your dps, the skills you want to use and put you in a situation where you look at the 10s before being able to use it again and think “well I cannot do anything”. It is not like ele where you can use some skills to try to make up for your mistake then swap to another element. It makes an already hard mechanic super punishing.  

Debilitating blow / enhancing impact :  Not really exciting because they force you to just try to spam cc for some buff / debuff. It feels like they could be merged in one.

Fervent force : The cd reduction was fun with some strange (but understandable) restrictions.

Cleansing: It sounded ok but when I tried it I noticed that I was not swapping that often (10 cd + risk of swapping at the wrong time) which made it less appealing.  

Bolstering Unleash: I liked the power burst or extra defense after a swap but it also is a boring trait (also suffers from the cd and drawbacks of the swap and the stab trait competition).

Restorative strikes 8-10% lifesteal sounded nice and worked well in PvE but ended up feeling like a slightly better minor in PvP.

Blinding outburst: okish, a bit too similar to go for the eye (beastmastery)

Corrupting vines: I like the corruption theme but with the cd and the lack of boon rip on ranger it does not make it that strong. 

Ferocious symbiosis : Fun on paper but I did not test it enough.

 

  • Utilities:

I do not know if the lack of stunbreak is something that will damage the spec or not. I played 1 stunbreak, 1 stab, the stab trait It was hard but can work.

The heal (perilous gift) : It can be a 0 healing skill, a 100 healing skill , kill your pet and yourself (very likely) and has a long cd. I find this strange when so many mechanics are tied to the pet and cannot think of a situation where I would want to use it, even as a main tank in a raid. I do not know how to improve it. It does not reward you or your pet for taking so much risk.

Exploding spores: offer a nice burst in PvE but in PvP I only landed it on someone immobilized which makes the cc unreliable. WHY DO SO MANY RANGER SKILLS NEED AN IMMOBILE TARGET? It is not the first time it happens (druid slow seed of life, all the burst in the power soulbeast rotation, gs skills 3 and 5 missing someone moving, many more) and is so frustrating.

Mutate condition: The condi clear is strong. While I understand other people I do not think it needs a stunbreak.

Unnatural traversal: It works fine, with a short cd when it hits but I still do not want to blink in or one someone when I play ranger. I will not have a burst to follow so I would rather pick some defense. Maybe have a flip skill on hit and make it 30s all the time?

Nature’s binding: was fun to use with a short enough cd. But you need your team to follow if you take it and the opponents must not have a guard or a blink.

Forest’s fortification: A strong skill. The on hit effect can be hard to trigger on ranger because you lack aoe.

 

Edit : once again I had some fun moment playing it and think it will take a while to master all the new skills. During this beta there were a lot of people on already established builds or the other specs (which looked stronger). A lot of factors made my testing less enjoyable but I still think this spec will have a hard time being the start of a teamfighter ranger.

Edited by aymnad.9023
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16 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Stronger on paper yes, but can a player actually keep up with the same efficiency the AI can? 

I'm not sure they can, because so far on the forums I haven't seen any complaints about pets becoming OP again because untamed can control tail swipe and the like. 

One would think this is the first place that would be hammered with complaints if pet control was 'strong'--but in fact its been the opposite (many complaints of DPS loss because pet only AAs now).  

 

My first impression is that I prefer it. I like being able to control when the smokescale use Smoke Assualt and Knockdown.

With stuff like Tail Swipe, I came to find that using Chomp (drake F1) on pet swap after porting in for a Maul burst lines up much quicker and is more difficult to dodge, as opposed to Tail Swipe which has a wind up and often get dodged because people tend to dodge after Maul. The instant Maul + Chomp burst is ridiculous and more reliable than Maul + Tail Swipe on core ranger. This relies on the port cantrip + pet swap though, that skill combined with the CC traits carry a Remorseless build on this spec.

Most of the complaints I see are from PvE players being annoyed that the pet doesn't use skills automatically and they have to press them for damage. Kinda ironic considered a lot of people wanted a pet focused spec... isn't this what people should expect from a "pet spec"? Or did people just want higher dps from the pet with the same limited control over its skills?

As for non-rangers, they can't complain about random Tail Swipes anymore. Cooldown is the same, animation is the same. I guess that's a general pet balance issue and how much you're supposed to pay attention to the pet. Knowing they will likely come after the swap makes you pay closer attention after a pet swap, while full control means you have to pay some attention all the time and look for the animations. I think people that complain about random Tail Swipes find it OP no matter what, while the rest think the damage is too high regardless. In general I think a lot of people in both camps don't pay much attention to the pet animations anyways, which they should when fighting a class with an AI.

Edit: I'd love to hear what makes people react with the confused emoji.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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First of all I am confused why after the incredibly lukewarm reception to Scrapper and Spellbreaker that they are still trying to make PvP only elite specs, the majority of people who play this game play PvE and they want new shiny toys to use in PvE, especially sine its been so long since the last expansion. Now a cc focused, Bunny Thumper inspired elite spec is obviously going to be more PvP focused and PvE wise Soulbeast won't be beat but between 9 traits, different pets and skill splits you can at least make it fun in PvE.

 

Secondly, I've described it as Bunny Thumper inspired but is it really? Bunny Thumper cc'd enemies while the pet did damage with fast movement and attack speed, untamed has the Ranger trying to pass a stance back and forth so it can cc the enemy and then do damage itself with a slow and clunky weapon while the pet is kind of there. After 9 years of the pet holding us back people wanted a spec where the pet can rip kitten up. We were even teased with this for a brief time with the Iboga. Instead the only reason its anymore pet focused then Druid is because it doesn't nerf pet stats by 20%. Out of 12 traits, only one affects the pet, the hammer is one of the few weapons Ranger has that has no interaction with the pet (even Soulbeast dagger had one), the heal skill actually kills the pet, none of the other cantrips affect the pet in anyway and passing the unleashed buff to the pet replaces its skills with 3 generic kind of ok pvp utility skills which would be much better on the Ranger itself. This is made even more painful that you have basically given the pet spec of our dreams to Engineer who don't even want it in the first place. An actual pet spec would help with the PvE problem as well since even if it steps on Soulbeast's toes by being a DPS class it would go about it in a different way and have different advantages and disadvantages. 

 

Now people have already covered why a pet spec/untamed won't work as the WvW frontliner you seem to be designing this for so I'll just leave with a couple of miscellaneous points

 

  • Outside of the GMs traits are kind of dull and mediocre. Even then Fervent Force needs to work with pet CCs.
  • Exploding Spores knockdown is too hard to trigger. You need to be pratically inside the enemy to make it work, either increase the aoe size or lower the requirement
  • No stunbreaks on cantrips
  • Remove the vulnerability on Mutate Conditions, make it heal less conditions and be a ammo skill. Give it an extra effect on conditions removed.
  • Unleashed skills on none hammer weapons and different unleashed skills per pet family could go a long way to adding customization and making the spec better in PvE. This could be how you give Untamed higher power coefficients since you don't want to do it for core Ranger.
  • At the very least Ranged pets need unleashed skills that aren't melee.

Also not Untamed related but a good ranged pet with good Soulbeast merged skills please. Honestly I'd put the new pets in the next beta because seeing what new skills we get for Soulbeast is going to entice me more to get the expansion then Untamed.

Edited by Levetty.1279
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I have and idea for a good change for one trait. I'm talking about 'Enhancing Impact'. So we get quickess everytime we cc an enemy. A good change for this trait would be, if we get quickness everytime we use a cc skill. This would help a lot to fight/solo champs in the open world etc.. And another idea for the Fractal/Raiding Community. What if, everytime we swap our unleashed condition, we share the boons on ourselve with the subgroup. This would maybe be an option to make the new ranger spec viable for this kind of content, maybe with spirits, high cc and the quickness, he would be an good addition to the new alac specs.

 

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7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Stronger on paper yes, but can a player actually keep up with the same efficiency the AI can? 

I'm not sure they can, because so far on the forums I haven't seen any complaints about pets becoming OP again because untamed can control tail swipe and the like. 

One would think this is the first place that would be hammered with complaints if pet control was 'strong'--but in fact its been the opposite (many complaints of DPS loss because pet only AAs now).  

I know i felt the lack of power in the pet with new UI i went into a few fractals and was just too busy doing my own thing to notice pet skills the majority of the time. Reason i feel if anything it should be a optional UI either we go core or for those fine with new UI they can use it. Aside from maybe tweeking some skills in perk and weapons damage and speed for hammer. I can see me liking the class otherwise. I am one of the rangers that stuck with Core and not Soul Beast or Druid. This new job done right i can see myself using with my marauder build.  I wanted something stronger then core pet yet still function with my pets and not trying to replace said pet.

Edited by Kaenaydar.5631
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As Untamed stands right now, there’s not really a situation in which it should be used.
Having access to hammer AoE in and of itself is really nice, namely getting access to 5 man PBAoE which we didn’t have before is nice. The damage still feels horribly lacking though in all modes. In instanced PvE it won’t compete with current weapons (GS, Longbow, Sword, Axe) and in PvP and WvW it’s hit with the curse of “CC ability coefficients”. There’s a reason you never see Warrior or Guardian hammers anymore.

Mostly focusing on the traits, the same issue seems common in a lot of the other elite specs for this expansion is that there doesn’t seem to be much depth or interactivity between any of them. Compared to elite specs of the past, the Untamed elites seem more in line with that of base specs. Currently the adept and master tier traits all seem like very simple copy-pastes of each other, but do different things. Example being: Debilitating Blows (disables apply condis), Enhancing Impact (disables apply boons), Fervent Force (disables reduce skill cooldown). They all do slightly different things, but all have the same trigger. The others traits are in the same vein as this. When you unleash you (clear 1 condi / gain boons). Your (pet skill) is improved. It’s all just so boring. It’s not until the Grandmaster line when something interesting actually occurs, it feels like the entire rest of the trait choices are wasted. Looking at Beastmastery trait line for example, our top row follows the same format with “using a beast skill applies (blind / weakness / taunt). It’s just so boring. As pointed out elsewhere, we also have no Cantrip trait, something that *every other skill type in the game has*.

This is also the first elite we’ve gotten in 4 years, and will probably be the only one we will get for at least the next 2+. Having an elite that is only focused in very specific situations (namely small group PvP such as fighting on center node in PvP or small group roaming) feels like such a colossal waste of an elite spec. Ranger already has an ample amount of roaming builds, and still has a presence in PvP (although not as the role this build is seemingly look to provide). There’s still so many other roles that Ranger does not have access to that are significantly more impactful than being able to team fight in PvP. Rangers (alongside Thieves) have no place in zergs. Untamed still having access to a pet that will instantly melt in a fight, it is dead on arrival when it comes to making a Zerg build. Although an Immobeast/Immobdruid build exist, they are so much more niche than what other classes are able to do and are usually just taken as in Guild vs Guild fights where people are actually able to play around them. Even then you’d typically only see one per Zerg. It’s not a build you can just join a pug group on and contribute with. In PvE, we are notably lacking in a boon support build. While we have dps from Soulbeast and healing from Druid, we will be one of the only classes (alongside Warrior) that will be unable to provide any alacrity or quickness. If this is the only elite spec we’ll get in a 6 year time span, we should be able to do more with it than PvP. In line with the need for trait changes as listed above, there should be a rework to allow Rangers to do *at least* one of those so that we can actually contribute to the game in more than one way. Taking Fervent Force for example, something like doing CC grants us and/or allies Alacrity, fulfilling a similar role to what the trait already does (reduce skill CDs on CC) while being able to bring a new build to PvE.

The Unleash mechanic doesn’t feel like it provides any actual strength to the class. Currently there are only two traits that affect our damage and both are only strike damage. For PvE specifically, Base Ranger is non-existent. Condi Ranger is a relatively good base class build, but playing it as Untamed provides literally nothing. You feel almost required to always be Unleashed because if not, you will take a -15% damage decrease. The gain for making your pet unleashed is also non-existent. Pets don’t seem to get any actual damage increase from being Unleashed and the abilities they get are already extremely niche. There’s only certain situations in which you’d need boonstrip or a projectile block. So as it is right now, it seems you’d have to stay permanently Unleashed to get any minuscule amount of bonus from our elite mechanic.

As nice as it is to have more control over when our pets use their abilities, it feels that what we lost to do so is way more significant than what we gained. At the very least the F1 should be reverted back to Attack instead of the pet’s basic ability. For most pets their abilities don’t matter enough to warrant having it be on our skill bad. It’s only pets such as Smokescale that have a CC on it where the loss of the Attack button hurts. Changing F1 back to Attack allows us to actually be able to command our pets in more meaningful ways, such as initially engaging onto an enemy, rather than having to waste a skill to get them to enter combat. When Unleaahed tough, it would be more possible to swap F1 Attack with the Unleashed skill Venomous outburst since it has a blink-to-target ability built into it.

In addition, the fact that we have our pets in the state they are now also greatly drags down the elite. As it has been recently, most pets are essentially brought for the utility they provide rather than their dps. Druids with their nerfed pet stats specifically, but also Soulbeast who either bring a pet because the merged abilities are a dps increase, or for the utility and CC they provide in PvP content. The only situation I can think off the top of my head where a Ranger would bring a pet because of its dps is Druids taking Iboga. Looking at the interaction Mechanists got with their pets, it feels like the mechs provide a meaningful contribution to their class while for Rangers the pets for the most part are kinda just “there” and are meant to facilitate us to be able to do things rather than have an actual, threatening presence. Unleashing a pet that poses little threat won’t really increase its threat level that much.

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I summarized my Untamed feedback into a short video, I'm speaking mainly from a PvE / raiding perspective.

GW2 - Untamed Feedback (PvE)
The main points are:


The good

  1. Fervent Force - Very interesting trait that leads to some very fun rotations and potential for the class. I do however note that the 0.25s ICD can feel a little frustrating if using CC abilities with a long cast, and they happen to overlap. In addition, pet CC abilities are not currently activating this trait, limiting condition builds further as they don't have nearly as much access to control abilities.
  2. The hammer - Good power coefficients and I love the interaction between the hard CC & Fervent Force, this alone gives us a good reason to Unleash the pet.
  3. New defensive utilities - Restorative strikes, Forest's Fortification and Perilous Gift all expand our defensive options nicely.

The bad

  1. Only one unleashed weapon - It's disappointing to see only hammer get the unleashed treatment, this effectively restricts any condition builds into ignoring the class mechanic. My suggestion would be to at least give one condition weapon similar "Unleashed" abilities, for example the Shortbow.
  2. No unleashed pet variation - Similarly, all pets sharing the same three unleashed abilities is somewhat underwhelming. Particularly since none of the abilities carry much weight in terms of damage, arguably the most important aspect in PvE. It would be great to see pet archetypes gain appropriate skills for their purpose. For example power based pets would get heavy hitting abilities, supportive pets gaining healing abilities, condition pets gaining condition abilities etc.
  3. Vow of the untamed - In concept I like this trait, but the stacking damage loss means there's an enormous gap of ~35% damage between being unleashed and leashed. This makes it extremely unwise to be unleashed with the pet for any more than a fraction of a second. This stacks together with the previous issues to make the entire class mechanic very unappealing to use in a PvE setting.
  4. Damage - The Untamed is currently uncompetitive when compared to most other classes, and even offers very little incentive to take over Soulbeast or base ranger. It's primary perk is an abundance of control abilities, but I fear this isn't enough to make it a serious consideration over the alternatives. For the record I'm generally of the opinion that damage needs to be brought down to the levels of the Untamed, rather than the alternative, but in its current state it will be extremely difficult to recommend the Untamed for anything in PvE.

Thank you for reading, overall I think the Untamed specialization is a fantastic addition to the game and I look forward to seeing it on release! 😄

Edited by AnariiUK.7409
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3 hours ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

There’s a reason you never see Warrior or Guardian hammers anymore.

 

WvW zerg Spellbreaker uses hammer, which is the weapon that got hit hardest with the CC coefs. Guardian hammer isn't awful in zergs either, but neither is it particlarly affected by damage nerf to CC skills (the CC ring, ranged immob, good damage on 2, Banish to prevent revives are all good zerg utilities). It just doesn't fit into the two roles guardian has (stab bot FB and core/DH damage).

The difference between Spellbreaker and Untamed is that Untamed lacks the boon removal interaction with CCs, and while the hammer itself does a lot of things right (giving us CC and even boon removal), as a package it doesn't work. There is no flow to it with the unleash and non-unleashed skills and it lacks a gap closer.

CCs alone aren't enough because there already is a lot of CCs avaible, including ranger's own immobbeast builds. That's not an issue with what hammers usually do though, it's an issue with what Untamed brings to the table otherwise. If hammer was more fluid and Untamed had more useful CC interactions with it's trait other than selfish benefits, you'd have a strong zerg weapon.

None of that matters though, the fact that it has a pet is already one step back from what soulbeast was able to do.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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8 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

...The difference between Spellbreaker and Untamed is that Untamed lacks the boon removal interaction with CCs, and while the hammer itself does a lot of things right (giving us CC and even boon removal), as a package it doesn't work. There is no flow to it with the unleash and non-unleashed skills and it lacks a gap closer...

I dunno why BOTH Overbearing Smashes are not made the opposite of what they are, as movement skills. Currently they strike, then follow up with a leaping strike, but that could easily be made a gap closer with leap finisher and a follow up strike with additional effects if the initial leap hits.

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15 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I dunno why BOTH Overbearing Smashes are not made the opposite of what they are, as movement skills. Currently they strike, then follow up with a leaping strike, but that could easily be made a gap closer with leap finisher and a follow up strike with additional effects if the initial leap hits.

I will throw it in pile of "why can't Anet give ranger this thing that other professions do which works, instead of doing a weird quirk that just makes it either clunky or less effective".

Same pile also features "why doesn't soulbeast get both condi damage and strike damage when affected by fury as it clearly is a spec made to play both roles when revenant literally has the same trait which affects both types of damage", "why can't we refresh opening strike regardless of GM choice, when rev and engie have similar opening strike traits that do" and "why is ranger left being the only class relying on piercing traits to get any decent aoe out of their bows (with the exception of Barrage of and Poison Volley)".

Edited by Lazze.9870
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2 hours ago, AnariiUK.7409 said:

I summarized my Untamed feedback into a short video, I'm speaking mainly from a PvE / raiding perspective.

GW2 - Untamed Feedback (PvE)
The main points are:


The good

  1. Fervent Force - Very interesting trait that leads to some very fun rotations and potential for the class. I do however note that the 0.25s ICD can feel a little frustrating if using CC abilities with a long cast, and they happen to overlap. In addition, pet CC abilities are not currently activating this trait, limiting condition builds further as they don't have nearly as much access to control abilities.
  2. The hammer - Good power coefficients and I love the interaction between the hard CC & Fervent Force, this alone gives us a good reason to Unleash the pet.
  3. New defensive utilities - Restorative strikes, Forest's Fortification and Perilous Gift all expand our defensive options nicely.

The bad

  1. Only one unleashed weapon - It's disappointing to see only hammer get the unleashed treatment, this effectively restricts any condition builds into ignoring the class mechanic. My suggestion would be to at least give one condition weapon similar "Unleashed" abilities, for example the Shortbow.
  2. No unleashed pet variation - Similarly, all pets sharing the same three unleashed abilities is somewhat underwhelming. Particularly since none of the abilities carry much weight in terms of damage, arguably the most important aspect in PvE. It would be great to see pet archetypes gain appropriate skills for their purpose. For example power based pets would get heavy hitting abilities, supportive pets gaining healing abilities, condition pets gaining condition abilities etc.
  3. Vow of the untamed - In concept I like this trait, but the stacking damage loss means there's an enormous gap of ~35% damage between being unleashed and leashed. This makes it extremely unwise to be unleashed with the pet for any more than a fraction of a second. This stacks together with the previous issues to make the entire class mechanic very unappealing to use in a PvE setting.
  4. Damage - The Untamed is currently uncompetitive when compared to most other classes, and even offers very little incentive to take over Soulbeast or base ranger. It's primary perk is an abundance of control abilities, but I fear this isn't enough to make it a serious consideration over the alternatives. For the record I'm generally of the opinion that damage needs to be brought down to the levels of the Untamed, rather than the alternative, but in its current state it will be extremely difficult to recommend the Untamed for anything in PvE.

Thank you for reading, overall I think the Untamed specialization is a fantastic addition to the game and I look forward to seeing it on release! 😄

Im a marauder build and i guess you can say more strike then anything. As untamed stands without damage to back it up and speed in attacks. The class will not work well for rangers who gone my style. Untamed needs a power option for its build.

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13 hours ago, dolavan.8325 said:

I have and idea for a good change for one trait. I'm talking about 'Enhancing Impact'. So we get quickess everytime we cc an enemy. A good change for this trait would be, if we get quickness everytime we use a cc skill. This would help a lot to fight/solo champs in the open world etc.. And another idea for the Fractal/Raiding Community. What if, everytime we swap our unleashed condition, we share the boons on ourselve with the subgroup. This would maybe be an option to make the new ranger spec viable for this kind of content, maybe with spirits, high cc and the quickness, he would be an good addition to the new alac specs.

 

Did you test the trait in PvE against bosses?

Usually, traits with on disable effects trigger whenever you hit an enemy with a break bar with one of your CC abilities, even if they don't get stunned by this. I would expect that this trait here works the same. If that's the case, then there is no change needed to make it work against champions/bosses.

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First of all thx for high skillcap proffesion. I am ranger main since guild wars 1 and i can say that bunny thumper vibe is well transfered in gw2. I was lucky to be on vacation and test / theorycraft class in PvP which i feel this class is designed for. I will list ideas i found intersting and some problematic things/designs from pvp point of wiev. 

 PROS:

-New Gm trait which reduce cd for cc is unique and very good for combos like gs/hammer with port making it very nice for roam playstyle without feeling like 1 trick build and also has good side node potential.

-Blind trait on f1 pet unleash is very nice and i like the delay on f2 and timing it into f1 port and f3 is also amazing but it is bugged since it dissapear if you f1 again but i guess its already noted from other players.

-quickness/stability trait is very good and fits the style of malee bruiser aswell as vuln/weaknes trait

-corrupt instead boon rip is also very good choice and i apreciate it since it is good choice for making condition based builds viable

-hammer has good dmg and good amount of cc make it solid weapon choice with trait synergy

-teleport utility is great and rewards good plays aswell as opens up roaming potential

 

CONS:

- pets can t return to player which again highligh the problem of main mechanic being drawback for teamfights and even quite a few duel mathcups

-you pets are even harder to keep alive and we have no options to keep them alive or revive them in reasonable time manner to stay competitive. Most of the pets and potential theorycraft fails just because of this which is shame due to nice design to control pet.

-hammer has no mobility and gap closer, also has only 1 combo blast finisher

-no cantrip stunbreaks and no cd reduction specific trait for them leads to only port being used or maybe cage utility but i am not sure about that one

- heal skill is very bad in pvp and no point in taking it ever. It is very disconnected from the idea of pet reliant spec and highlight the first 2 problematic points even more

-condi remove cantrip is not good utility if you want to go for wildernes knowledge (only decent uptime condi cleanse) and is not good alternative to drop wildernes survival

-condi remove trait on unleash is very bad if you compare it to holo forge trait especially with 10sec cooldown

-elite skill doesn t bring much to mechanic and doesn t open up more utility

-tradeoff is making condition based builds in weird spot of pushing them to stay perma unleashed pet for cd reduction

-while first 2 buttom traits are good for condition builds there is no good GM trait choice for condition builds which is waste of potential theorycraft

-there is no condition based weapon with unleash mode since hammer is clearly made for power dmg

-unleash ability cooldown is too big and there is no way to recharge it

 

FIX:

-make Fervent Force trait recharge unleash mode upon landing cc so you can combo hammer better and have acces to enter/exit mode when you need that because after some time players will learn to counter ranger stacked in wrong mode for 10 sec and no actual way of geting out. This would also make condi remove trait on unleash more desirable choice.

-make cantrip trait with ability to revive pet when using cantrips or any other way to revive pet because it is huge drawback for most of squishy pets and potential theorycraft (for teamfights and wvw zerging it is must if you want it to be viable).

-give shortbow unleash treatment so we have alternative for condition builds. The best would be make shortbow interupt style weapon like old d-shot and make it fast paced interupt weapon instead bad telegraphed hard cc weapon. This would open up intersting condition variants and also fix shortbow bad telegraphs. This will also make Fervent Force good trait choice for condition builds if shortbow had more interupts for exchange of 1 hard cc. I think shortbow is best weapon to bring d-shot/frueqent interupt style back in exchange for badly telegraphed hard cc.

-hammer 3 needs a little leap finisher acting as small gap closer which leaps and blind/daze instantly in 360 radius on the start of the leap

-mutate conditions should be more fruqent cleanse instead big one and maybe even act like condition transfer to make it more unique

-elite skill could be instant cast stunbreak so we can have more choice on utility

 

 

 

Edited by CroTiger.7819
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Honestly,
It was so bad I'll go Core Ranger before I use the 3rd Elite spec.
I'll stick with Soulbeast, thank you. 


WvW roaming - LoL, go Soulbeast or Core Ranger, Untamed is garbage.
WvW group play - oh look, my pet is dead 90% of the time and i can't control it, fun times!
WvW zerg play - *kicked from squad*

PvP - *looks at what classes are in my team* Oh god.... we have dead weight in our team. *loses game to enemy bot team*
Ranked PvP - *Gets angry whispers*
Tournament PvP - *kicked from party*

PvE fractals - (T4 + CM) *asked to leave the party or swap to something useful*
PvE Raids - *kicked from squad* 9 billion LI isn't worth anything when your spec is useless.

PvE open world - VIABLE woohoo!!!! 10/10 amazing spec - IGN.

Edit: And i thought Druid was bad, only viable in PvE Raids and nowhere else, really.
But god kitten Anet! You've done it! You've made a spec (currently) only viable in open world PvE content, it's so bad it will never hold a candle to literally anything else.

Edited by Deax.1572
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20 minutes ago, Deax.1572 said:

Edit: And i thought Druid was bad, only viable in PvE Raids and nowhere else, really.
But god kitten Anet! You've done it! You've made a spec (currently) only viable in open world PvE content, it's so bad it will never hold a candle to literally anything else.

That's how I felt about druid and untamed as well.  I'll probably stick with my core ranger in PvE.  I loved soulbeast, but went back to core when Anet locked out pet-swap in combat.  That pretty much killed SB play for me in PvE. 

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On 11/1/2021 at 3:26 PM, Lazze.9870 said:

Most of the complaints I see are from PvE players being annoyed that the pet doesn't use skills automatically and they have to press them for damage. Kinda ironic considered a lot of people wanted a pet focused spec... isn't this what people should expect from a "pet spec"? Or did people just want higher dps from the pet with the same limited control over its skills?
 


No I'm sure people meant they wanted to tell their tiger to use "Bite" every six seconds for the next 4+ years so it can do the same damage per second it does autonomously on other specs

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Overall, kinda bad, mainly because the spec mechanics and traits don't work very well with existing weapon sets, which is key to overall satisfaction with a spec long-term.

Things I liked:

  • individually-controllable pet skills is good but it's a net loss unless we can select one or more of the skills to be auto-castable.
  • the cooldown-reduction traits/skills gave the spec a unique feel/playstyle
  • hammer felt good in PVE but terrible in competitive modes because of the 0.01 coefficient slapped onto all CC skills (IMO one of your worst balance decisions...)

Things I didn't like:

  • a pet-based spec means it's going to be bad in WVW, the only game mode I really play/enjoy
  • * "pet return to me" needs to be keybindable.
  • Hammer has no gap closer. I don't think you should have to take the teleport utility on every hammer spec to be viable (mandatory utility == bad design) 
  • condi-cleanse-on-unleash trait should prob clear 2 condis not 1, unless you want Survival to be mandatory on all untamed specs
  •  I think there was a missed opportunity for a skill (or grandmaster trait) that swapped your location with your pet's location as a novel engagement/disengage
  • Perilous Gift (the heal cantrip) is really bad in its current state
  • Exploding Spores felt very undertuned, either the areas should be larger or the dmg/effect stronger 
  • Vow of the Untamed - i don't think you should take a percent-based extra portion of damage when unleashed - remove or maybe change to +/- stats?

 

Bugs aside, I think I would have been a lot happier with Untamed if hammer has a decent gap closer or block. As it is, hammer is hands-down worse than greatsword. 

Edited by scerevisiae.1972
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10 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

No I'm sure people meant they wanted to tell their tiger to use "Bite" every six seconds for the next 4+ years so it can do the same damage per second it does autonomously on other specs

 

Obviously not, that's the kind of outlier that could (should, but it's Anet and pets, so..) be easily fixed with autocast option for AI controls in the menu.

 

It'd be better to buff core ranger damage to have a pet spec with good dps in PvE, you already have one traitline to buff pets and two other core lines for general damage modifiers, and then give ranger something useful for other game modes where it currently is worse off. But that wouldn't be new and shiny enough.

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So while playing with the untamed I notice some issues that would affect my enjoyment of playing the spec, more so I can not identify the overall benefits of playing this spec over the core, druid or soul-beast.

Unleashing other weapons(subtle recommendation)

Like adding special effects and/boons to the skills 4 of each weapon set.

The Greatsword - counter-attack add might to each successful block, the flip over return crippling throw with the same effects as the original version.

Longbow - point-blank shot change it to something like a true shot and add quickness instead of swiftness to the pet if hits (More dmg the closer the target is).

...

To the unleashed mechanic (It should work for you and your pet)

Vow of the untamed: 10% damage increase for who is unleashed and 10% damage reduction for who is not (lower the the damage increase or something  , don’t do the negative side effects especially the on for the damage) the damage does not out perform soul-beast in the current state so why suffer for it?
 

Cleaning unleashed : (1 damaging and 1 movement impaired removal) again pet is affected as well

Bolstering unleashed: might and quickness while unsealed, resolution(or resistance) and stability when switched, ranger and pet. Need more access to stability.
 

Blind outburst: kinda feels useless as a trait.

 

Pet

Now there is no way of setting your pet to a new target without wasting a skill. 

You can only mouse click to return the pet, so I have a few suggestions, one a lower CD on pet swap, so the pet can be recalled out of danger more quickly or

eliminate pet swap and allow the f4 to recall the pet, keeping the death penalties at 15-20sec as core pet swap CD and since the unleashed can still move to and from the ranger, the pet's death wouldn't be as overbearing as a core ranger if they keep unleashed traits and f-skills functionality.

 

Pet skills(normal skills) 

F1 - set the lowest CD attack skill for the pet to F!, also should be able to set it to auto cast-off CD, and allow the ranger to use it to change the pet's target even on CD without triggering the actual skill (like a flip over).

F2 - remain as the regular f2.

F3 - remaining utility type skills or big burst skills.

 

Unleashed Pet skills

F1 - ground target or different effect for ranged and melee pets

F2 - should be an on-hit effect and cast differently from ranged or melee, for melee pets they should track to the target before using the skill.

F3 - pet should return to the ranger before using this skill and apply a boon or effect based on the pet type.

If the pet is dead the unleased pet skills should be cast for the ranger (with limited effect).

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If this spec doesn't change drastically i can't see me ever using it. Soulbeast is a far better spec and the fact you can't use Untamed  skills of other weapons at least short bow, long bow and Greatsword would have made sense.. Why would you even bother. Its not going to be a viable spec like it is.

Also why can't we despawn the pets? that in itself makes the spec unusable.

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First things first, I really appreciate that I got a chance to play what could be a fun spec.  I was admittedly a bit worried about using a hammer since I stopped using a greatsword due to the  slow speed. I had almost no trouble since I still found a good pet from the 50 ArenaNet graciously provided to back me up. It’s worth mentioning that I’ve played rangers on and off for several years so, I’ve had to find ones for multiple situations, though.

 

On the other hand, I didn’t use Perilous Gift since the idea of hurting my pets to save myself doesn’t sit right with me. Mutate Conditions seemed a bit pointless since unleashing your ranger is supposed to incur higher damage. I didn’t really have a problem with Nature’s Binding since it can still initiate fights, and is probably meant for fleeing foes.

 

 I also kind of liked Forest’s Fortification since it gave me a reason to use Bountiful Hunter. Oh, and Unnatural Traversal is going to be my boy! Not only does the hammer skills lack a leap attack, you can use it while knocked down.

 

The Unleash skills were also pretty useful because all of them can hurt a defiance bar. That and you can always switch back to the Beast abilities, if you need them.

 

 

 

 

 

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I suggest you make the disabling a foe grands boons a party wide trait and chsnge to where you gtand quickness when the pet is unleased because it clashes with hammer's cc capabilities that its tied to you being unleased.

 

Also consider instead of it being quickness if it was alac instead but regardless i think a disabling boon buffer option for untamed would be very cool.

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