Untamed Feedback Thread

[Lan.5649]

Feedback and suggestions:

 

1) The pet interface needs more work.

- For some reason, the Ranger's default 'attack my target' button does not exist for the Untamed. It needs to be there of course, because as it is now we have a 'return to me' button but not 'attack my target'. The implication of this is that we can call our pet to return to us to get out of hairy situations, but when we order it thusly, the pet will not attack anyone in any situation. And in this situation, the only way for us to get it to attack again is by clicking one of its attack skills' buttons. Then the pet will resume attacking as normal after that attack skill is performed.

However, if all of our attack skills are on cooldown and we order the pet to 'return to me', the pet will then do absolutely nothing until one cooldown is over and we (are forced) to click that pet skill. This is basically a forced handicap for the Untamed.

- The Unleashed skills for the pet are all the same no matter what archetype our pet is. As it is, it reduces variety and the skills seems to favor condi builds/pets. The pet Unleashed skills should be made different according to pet archetypes.

 

2) The hammer skills are underwhelming. Rangers have always been liked for having a great and versatile weapon set, before hammer comes along. Especially as a 2-handed weapon, there should be more versatility to it, perhaps a block/evade/movement skill in there.

 

3) The special Unleashed mode attacks for the hammer needs to be present for all other default ranger weapons as well. If not changing all of their skills, at least change 1 of their skills to be a special, Unleashed version.

 

4) Vow of The Untamed: Your outgoing and incoming damage are increased while you are unleashed. Your outgoing and incoming damage are decreased while your pet is unleashed.

The damage adjustment of 15% and 10% seems a bit too harsh of a tradeoff, which would make this e-spec unnecessarily weak compared to Soulbeast/Druid/Core as well as other classes. The risk is that people won't want to play this e-spec because of this. Can these numbers be adjusted more favorably?

 

5) Aside from (or maybe instead of) having the abovementioned Unleashed attacks, the pet needs to have something else that's special to justify that 'Unleashed' status. Maybe higher stats?

- Suggestion for this: What if when the pet is unleashed, aside from (or instead of) increased stats, we will control the pet and the AI will control our player character? For the tradeoff for the increased stats and/or manual controls, maybe make the Unleashed unable to change pets in combat (if the pet dies, the cooldown penalty should be lower compared to core ranger/druid though). 

 

6) The utility skills look very underwhelming, "add this effect" type of skills with not much else going on and not a lot of variety. Suggestion: how about changing one / more utility skills to dual attacks/dual buffs performed by the ranger and the pet at the same time?

 

7) Visual effects: Frankly the Unleashed mode special effect looks bad. It looks like the Untamed/pet has this faint stinky cloud of grime about them, as if they haven't taken a bath in weeks. This ruins players' aesthetics with their characters, not to mention looking silly. Please change this. Maybe have a glowing eyes effect for the Unleashed player/pet, or the Soulbeast aura, minus the animated vines, and changed to a different color? Basically, please let the Unleashed entity have a cooler looking visual cue.

- Suggestion: What if when the pet is unleashed, another visual cue is also that its size is increased by a percentage of the original? That will look very cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for all of you guys' hard work, and have a great one!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Gogadantes.6817
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[Auron.5709]

Got another idea on top of the previous feedback that I mentioned about removing the unleashed modes recharge. Note that in that previous idea the condition removal trait Cleansing Unleash should be changed or at least have a cooldown added to it (though the trait is underwhelming in its current version so it would need a bit more to it anyways).

Now to the idea itself:

Some people have said that other ranger weapons should have unleashed skills too. I echo this idea too but in a limited way. Making every possible core ranger weapon skill from 2-5 change would be a lot of work, difficult to balance and could cause problems in the future for designing any new elite specialization for ranger.

So as a compromise maybe only change the 3 and 4 skills for the weapons. This would give the other weapons new life and also a place for the spec. Also about half of these skills for core weapons are underused or never used in high end encounter content (pvp not inlcuded here) or cause problems for open world events (knockback/pull effects). To my mind these skills are greatsword swoop and counter attack, longbow hunter shot and point blank, shortbow quick shot, sword hornet sting and spears surging maw and counterstrike. The other skills 3 or 4 skills are used more for varying reasons but changing these would bring the other skills and offhand weapons on the ride of the unleash idea.

The normal hammer skills have cc, defence lowering conditions, daze and knockdown. Unleash mode for hammer promotes more dmg / blind, boon removal / boon gain.

On this idea the core weapons 3 & 4 skills are already in the same more defense oriented side with skills that have movement, block, stealth,. evade, pull,  push and defence lowering conditions aspects (torch 4 being the only outlier here). So the unleash version of these skills could change them to the more dmg, enemy detriment and self gain sides. Movement skills (leap/evade back) could go away to enable stationary skill versions with benefits like poison combo field for shortbow, blast finisher for greatsword and whirl finisher for sword. Block and stealth skills could become a dmg+boon gain versions. Cc skills could become boon removal or other condition variant versions and the already dmg oriented skills could gain boon removal or condition transfer aspects for example.

To me this change could especially make the sword, longbow and greatsword way more interesting as weapons for the class and also enable varying skill use for all of the weapons. Soulbeast should still be the best dmg spec and druid be the support one for ranger but untamed could become with these additions a more cc, group defence and enemy control version of the class (giving it thus a unique place). I would also echo that the pets unleashed skills should have the pet archetype treatment that the soulbeast has.

Also please remember the underwater weapons too as water combat is still in the game (and seems to be also in EoD as we are getting fishing now).

Edited November 6, 2021 by Auron.5709

[kappa.2036]

After testing it, i think i will just leave the ranger class.

This spec is complete garbage. From the weapon to the utilities, from the unleash mechanic to the traits, EVERYTHING is terrible and i feel useless playing it. Untamed is not a bruiser, nor a teamfighter, nor a frontliner. It completely lacks the tools to deal with it.

There is no reasons to put cc on the hammer kit while the pet is unleashed, because unleashed pets DO NO DAMAGE AT ALL.

There is no reasons to play this class as a teamfighter o a frontliner, since pets DIE IN THE FIRST 2 SECONDS and bring no group utilities at all. PETS SHOULD BECOME INVULNERABLE TOTEMS (like scourge shades) WHEN THEY ARE UNLEASHED, or atleast give us a trait that allow us to do so.

The spec needs a stunbreak. The spec needs stability on demand. Make the elite a stunbreak, or move the stability to another utility skill, we already have SOTP if we want stab on elite. The spec needs a way to keep the pet healthy and revive them. The spec have good aoes but lacks group utility, and an unique role. Otherwise, this trash will never be viable in wvw zergs. The spec needs also more defensive utilities, right now you can't survive as a frontliner.

[Kyban.4031]

Pets should gain bonuses when unleashed that incentivize pet skill use while in that state and play into that “give and take” playstyle of swapping unleashed.

Needs better (non-skill) pet controls/directions.  It should at least keep the Attack My Target skill to lock a pet on a target and have it start auto attacking.  It could just be a flip for the Return To Me skill.  Pets need to be updated to be more consistent and benefit from boons properly.  

The newly exposed pet skills don’t count as beast skills which makes the distinction odd  in the middle pet skill.  It would be nice for bonus effects to go with additional exposed skills.

Unleashing could count as a pet swap to help existing traits contribute to the elite spec builds.

Do broken breakbars count as disabled without the additional stun?  It would be annoying trying to remember which bosses get a disable on break and which don’t.

Debilitating Blows trait seems fairly weak.  Restorative Strikes trait should affect your pet as well.
 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

2 hours ago, Kyban.4031 said:

...Needs better (non-skill) pet controls/directions.  It should at least keep the Attack My Target skill to lock a pet on a target and have it start auto attacking.  It could just be a flip for the Return To Me skill...

I really like that idea!

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 11/8/2021 at 6:00 PM, kappa.2036 said:

After testing it, i think i will just leave the ranger class.

This spec is complete garbage. From the weapon to the utilities, from the unleash mechanic to the traits, EVERYTHING is terrible and i feel useless playing it. Untamed is not a bruiser, nor a teamfighter, nor a frontliner. It completely lacks the tools to deal with it.

There is no reasons to put cc on the hammer kit while the pet is unleashed, because unleashed pets DO NO DAMAGE AT ALL.

There is no reasons to play this class as a teamfighter o a frontliner, since pets DIE IN THE FIRST 2 SECONDS and bring no group utilities at all. PETS SHOULD BECOME INVULNERABLE TOTEMS (like scourge shades) WHEN THEY ARE UNLEASHED, or atleast give us a trait that allow us to do so.

The spec needs a stunbreak. The spec needs stability on demand. Make the elite a stunbreak, or move the stability to another utility skill, we already have SOTP if we want stab on elite. The spec needs a way to keep the pet healthy and revive them. The spec have good aoes but lacks group utility, and an unique role. Otherwise, this trash will never be viable in wvw zergs. The spec needs also more defensive utilities, right now you can't survive as a frontliner.

This is how I'd do it. Call the class Warden, have pets change into totems or spirits akin to the Renegade's ones. The existing archetypes from Soulbeast would allow for grouping of effects quite neatly. It resolves issues instead of exchanging them. Creates tactical play requiring good control of the pet and feels different to what we already have while fitting the themes. Also, the player doesn't get covered in toxic sewer waste, cos this isn't a Troma film...

[AkantorCZ.8952]

I always dreamed of elite spec that would focus more on ranger pets and make them more powerful. Now I just hope the Untamed isn't the spec to fill this spot because It's nothing like what I was hoping for. Mainly I don't like the theme of corrupted nature magic being the tool to make your pet 'stronger'? How is this pet lover spec when you cast curse on your pet to turn in into something different? It's nice that there is a lore behind it and I'm sure many people will like it but I'm not one of them.

The Untamed is the second elite spec in a row that uses monotone green as a main VFX theme and as much as I like the green color itself I absolutely hate when EVERYTHING is green.

Back at the time when I started to play GW2 I immediately fall in love with the Ranger class for its nature theme, flashy animal spirit weapon skill effects (sword/GS/war horn/spear) and the pet mechanic. Unfortunately until this point there wasn't many attempts to build on these aspects which is a real shame and also the main reason why core ranger is still my favorite spec.

 

Thanks!

Edited November 11, 2021 by AkantorCZ.8952

[Dante.1508]

I was so hoping for a non pet Ranger finally.. Sadly nope.. Anet is obsessed.

[DarkLancer.1902]

Okay, I see lots of hate on this one... from people who don't understand its purpose.  Yeah, damage output felt sort of slow, but I can tell Untamed was never meant to be a DPS beast.  It's a survival/utility build with some VERY nice crowd control stuck in its back pocket.  Exposing the pet skills was a good idea; lack of ability to micromanage the pet was one of the major problems with other ranger specs.  All in all, it's a good, usable build, but it does have issues. 
They are as follows: No real reason to unleash the ranger, except to get the core pet skills, since the unleashed mode of the hammer is underwhelming, & you lose your crowd control skills.  Spec mechanic only functions with 1 weapon.  Aesthetic is kind of ugly. 

To fix them: Boost the base damage of unleashed hammer skills.  Give all available weapons unleashed skills.  I get that, for the sake of completeness, there needs to be an appearance change in Unleashed mode, but could we get something more like the Berserker's Berserk mode, just in green, instead of... being covered in goop?

[Kydar Schattendolch.6879]

Maybe it is a little bit late, but I would like to see the new pet control mechanic to be baseline for all specs. 

And I think I mentioned it earlier, as well I would like to get different pet skills in sharing form based on the four available pet categories at least  (deadly pets, condition pets, ... what ever they are called ^^)

[Zenith.7301]

Obvious thing that needs to happen is that pets need to be able to hit moving targets with swiftness.

 

The pets are terrible at actually landing attacks on any moving target, and having pets become stationary for some skills is just not tenable in this game.

 

Second, a kitten developer should not be making jokes about how 95% of the pet types are not used. If people are not using moas, maybe that's your hint that they need fixing, not more jokes about it.

 

Then there's the fact that neither consumables, runes, sigils, or even some trait effects for damage increase  % affect the pet.
 

Ascended stat upgrades do not scale up the pet.

 

In essence, a sizable portion of ranger's damage, and their supposed core mechanic, does not scale at all with many performance increasing components of endgame PvE. It's unacceptable.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[OGDeadHead.8326]

With the new option available to us to manage all pet skills ourselves, I for one would like the option to be able to set one or more skills to autocast, on a per pet based basis. Pretty much as show on the screenshot on the link below.

Pet Selection Screen

 

I also think this should be a core feature available to all ranger specs.

Edited November 16, 2021 by OGDeadHead.8326

[Kaenaydar.5631]

13 hours ago, OGDeadHead.8326 said:

With the new option available to us to manage all pet skills ourselves, I for one would like the option to be able to set one or more skills to autocast, on a per pet based basis. Pretty much as show on the screenshot on the link below.

Pet Selection Screen

 

I also think this should be a core feature available to all ranger specs.

I could back this idea it would make our pets in my mind easier to control because in raids and  fractals and what not i forget about pets skills so i would just turn them all on auto

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:26 PM, Lazze.9870 said:

 

My first impression is that I prefer it. I like being able to control when the smokescale use Smoke Assualt and Knockdown.

With stuff like Tail Swipe, I came to find that using Chomp (drake F1) on pet swap after porting in for a Maul burst lines up much quicker and is more difficult to dodge, as opposed to Tail Swipe which has a wind up and often get dodged because people tend to dodge after Maul. The instant Maul + Chomp burst is ridiculous and more reliable than Maul + Tail Swipe on core ranger. This relies on the port cantrip + pet swap though, that skill combined with the CC traits carry a Remorseless build on this spec.

Most of the complaints I see are from PvE players being annoyed that the pet doesn't use skills automatically and they have to press them for damage. Kinda ironic considered a lot of people wanted a pet focused spec... isn't this what people should expect from a "pet spec"? Or did people just want higher dps from the pet with the same limited control over its skills?

As for non-rangers, they can't complain about random Tail Swipes anymore. Cooldown is the same, animation is the same. I guess that's a general pet balance issue and how much you're supposed to pay attention to the pet. Knowing they will likely come after the swap makes you pay closer attention after a pet swap, while full control means you have to pay some attention all the time and look for the animations. I think people that complain about random Tail Swipes find it OP no matter what, while the rest think the damage is too high regardless. In general I think a lot of people in both camps don't pay much attention to the pet animations anyways, which they should when fighting a class with an AI.

Edit: I'd love to hear what makes people react with the confused emoji.

I think people are confused because your argument doesn't make any sense. Your argument seems to be claiming it has to be either the old way or the Untamed modification way, which is nonsense. Hence the confusion.

Yes, people wanted more control over the pet, but this actually takes control away. We lose "attack" and lose the hotkey for "return" and now have to control skills such as "bite" as well? Surely basic attacks should remain either auto or can be set to auto? Especially if it gives back the "return" command hotkey. Then there's the fact that the unleashed pet actually gets weaker from being unleashed, because it doesn't use it's other skills and we can't command it to either.

Soulbeast remains the superior version of a pet spec because it gives the most control, allows removal of the pet when needed most and focuses on a single pet at a time. Untamed as arguably worse than core in terms of control because you lose basic functions and now have to micromanage basic attacks. It's actually a downgrade on core ranger.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Surely basic attacks should remain either auto or can be set to auto?

This is key. While the option to be able to control ALL attacks is good, I'm pretty sure that most players will find it to be fiddly and won't use it much, meaning a loss in effectiveness. See my post above, that's something that needs to be implemented (and in all honesty, it should have been implemented years ago, as a core feature).

Edited November 22, 2021 by OGDeadHead.8326

[Kaliwenda.3428]

Thank you for changing the visual effect! 🥰

[Lazze.9870]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:01 AM, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Your argument seems to be claiming it has to be either the old way or the Untamed modification way, which is nonsense. Hence the confusion.

 

What is nonsense is picking a small part, a bi-sentence of a larger comment, and assume I'm claiming  something. If I was claiming it has to be one way or another, I would have said exactly that. No wonder people get confused when they can't even wrap their head around what the comment is actually about.

No, it doesn't have to be one way or another, I'm just saying full pet control of existing pets includes control over "bite". There are of course several ways they could go about that, from re-introducing the autocast system heroes had in GW1, to an extensive redesign where the pets have different, more impactful skills on a longer cooldown. The thing is, no one on this forums wants the same thing for a "pet spec". It's all wishy washy.

No surprise there though, Anet can't figure it out either and probably regret making pets the ranger mechanic to begin with. It's by far the worst mechanic to build elite specs around (especially now with a merge spec already done) unless they're willing to completely abandon it (which they should have done with druid, and which is what untamed should have been to cover roles ranger is currently - to put it nicely - less wanted for, mainly large wvw).

Edited December 3, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

5 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

...The thing is, no one on this forums want the same thing for a "pet spec". It's all wishy washy. No surprise there though, Anet can't figure it out either and probably regret making pets the ranger mechanic to begin with.

 

It should have been if you bring the Beastmastery traitline, your pet comes, and only then. The mechanic would have been better as Preparations or Evasion, or something they didn't decide to give to Thief.

[BadSanta.6527]

just lost my faith in arenet to make good ranger elite spec , ambus feals occuord ' dont like that lazy kitten class

[Gorem.8104]

Really should start a new thread after these changes, but:
So they gave us back all our old pet commands, even stow is back, however for some reason its on different hotkeys then all our other specs? Yeah that won't be confusing at all with how muscle memory works. Why do this? its the same with Warrior as to how their F1 and F2 were swapped for Bladesworn, but now this is swapped 3 hotkeys at once for three abilities I WISH WE COULD AUTO CAST. Or just give us back what we used to have, honestly I don't want to control pet abilities, its just annoying cause often times in battle your pets dead or nowhere near you, you can't just use them cause they might not even be next to someone to hit. 

Still need to test if they fixed the pet doing anything when we go down, as previous Beta the pet did not use abilities when we were downed. 

Its still too much to micro manage and still too many states to be effective. That's if you use Hammer, if you don't then its a lot easier to play now that all weapons get something and the downsides of untamed is gone. Also good to see its different depending on weapon, that longbow has a good new ranged attack on one. Don't like the cast times though, means its incredibly obvious when to interrupt a ranger that's Untamed for easy use of interrupt procs. 
Cantrips are A LOT better. Might be actually useable, honestly this heal cantrip is easily the best heal Rangers have now in the game next to Heal as one, due to it healing more, preventing death and giving superspeed or stab. 

 

All in all, Untamed is looking a lot better as a niche class that no one will play as it suits no rolls we didn't already full, as it has less cc then druid, and less dps then Soulbeast. It would have been great if we could spread boons out in combat for melee wvw fights or something. Just wish it had something that made it special besides giving us more work to do for less payoff. Its basically just what core should be. I highly doubt if this spec is even as tanky as our previous elites though it is funny how Untamed's condi removal is tied to a useless giant 10 second trait or a semi good Cantrip that wants you to die. 

As for pets, they need their own abilities when untamed, ranged pets do not benefit from untamed and most pets still suck outside of untamed stat for sticking to their targets. Hammer is too weak, why do untamed and normal hammer abilities share CD's? If they didn't it'd be a lot better for all the stance swapping. Leaps are too short range, and abilities are not big enough aoe's. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[OGDeadHead.8326]

The issue with pet abilities and the lack of their autocast should be high priority for the next (?) beta imho. There are a lot of things going on with this new spec, and of course it's new to all of us, but still, the option to set pet abilities to autocast needs to be implemented for those of us that are not comfortable keeping track of each of their abilities, and this is especially true for the short cd ones.

 

This spec has a lot to keep track of: are you or your pet in the unleashed mode? Are the ambush skills available now or how long was it since I used it last? And so on. Micromanaging every single pet ability feels like a bit too much for an old grump like me 😉

 

I don't want to see it go away, just allow players to choose.

[Soilder.3607]

38 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

 

All in all, Untamed... has less cc then druid

No, this is flat out wrong. Untamed has the highest CC potential in PvE out of all classes/specializations period. 

 

Untamed Extreme CC and Recharge Reduction in PvE; Demonstrative Video - Ranger - Guild Wars 2 Forums

 

That video was taken in the last beta event (I forgot to activate the breakbar on the Golem, stupidly). The frequency at which I am activating CC skills against the golem is absurd, and no class/build comes even close. 

 

I'm not saying this makes Untamed good or bad or special, but I see people often repeating that Druid has more CC than the Untamed when it simply doesn't. The Druid cannot execute CC with nearly as much frequency as shown in that video, and the updates that Untamed has received since that video was taken have not in any way reduced the frequency with which the Untamed can CC. 

[Vertas.6518]

Good changes.

However, hammer is still bad. Add some evade or block instead of CC to the dark stance. Otherwise it will be outclassed by GS. Autoattacks are still boring, maybe the third can apply brief fury?

Teleport to the target skill and ultimate are still bad, need an overhaul.

[Gorem.8104]

6 minutes ago, Soilder.3607 said:

No, this is flat out wrong. Untamed has the highest CC potential in PvE out of all classes/specializations period. 

 

Untamed Extreme CC and Recharge Reduction in PvE; Demonstrative Video - Ranger - Guild Wars 2 Forums

 

That video was taken in the last beta event (I forgot to activate the breakbar on the Golem, stupidly). The frequency at which I am activating CC skills against the golem is absurd, and no class/build comes even close. 

 

I'm not saying this makes Untamed good or bad or special, but I see people often repeating that Druid has more CC than the Untamed when it simply doesn't. The Druid cannot execute CC with nearly as much frequency as shown in that video, and the updates that Untamed has received since that video was taken have not in any way reduced the frequency with which the Untamed can CC. 

 

Oh wow, against a golem that's some cc? What about wvw with ancient seeds? Actual combat and use effectiveness, who actually cares what you can do to a golem, being able to cc a golem a bunch means nothing. Being able to cc a bunch in pve means nothing. in wvw I'd much rather take immob SB/Druid. both can already do Break Bars, and both are better in wvw. 

[Gomes.5643]

So went back to the charr civil war to test the new changes - and i must say I am impressed. The new ambush mechanic gives so much to the spec as you now want to periodically switch between the modes. Also the idea that the skills give different buffs according to the stance is good, is that also new? Cant remember. That alone makes the Untamed from a quite boring spec to one with potential.

 

I still find it a little bit sad that they mix the CC-Brawler and Pet Master theme into one spec .... should have decided on one theme and go deep instead of wide..... but that is a major problem with this generation of specs in general..... and they will probably not change that.

 

Anyway one change I wish they do is to diversify the "empowered pet skills" to either:

a) Create a set of skills depending on the pet class (like soul beast)

b) Make the skills actually empowered pet skills..... meaning that the normal petskill of f1,2 and 3 will be cast with the shadowstep, ranks, poison cloud on top of it

 

Otherwise all the pets become quite samey ...... which definetly is not good for the pet spec od the pet class....

 

Oh and remove shadow step from f1 for range pets in favor of something else.....

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Gomes.5643