Untamed Feedback Thread

[Bealis.6023]

Hello I posted this in older post (sorry for that) but I think its better here:

Unleashed F5 skill seems kinda underwhelming at this stage, at least on variety/fun factor. It gives "just" 3 new pet skills and changes 4 hammer skills. If not counting offense/defense mechanic, thats just it. I believe things can be added without making the spec a powercreep as was mentioned in the preview. I would have 2 suggestions for that.

1. Make the Unleashed pet F3 skill different based on the pet family.  Each could give a different combo field. There are 9 fields and 9 central Tyria pet familes. HoT, PoF and EoD pets could get one of those. For instance the Poison in the preview could go to spiders, Dark for devourers, Smoke for cats etc.
2. Change one or two skills from each other weapon while Unleashed is on you. For example:

Longbow: Long Range Shot - Becomes Short Range Shot, deals more damage the closer the target

 

No radical changes to the skills so the Untamed wasnt OP, but I believe it would give a bit more potency for the theme while having more variations for switching Unleashed between player and a pet.

Another thing that lacks is the minor trait  Natural Fortitude that gives 240 Vitality. It is just written in the stars that it is a boring trait (most new elite specs have an issue with minor traits btw). I believe, in the spirit of giving Ranger more of a warrior status, it can be done in another way. Thing that comes into mind right now is the similar effect that Utility items have. I think best would be to Gain Vitality equal to % of your Toughness. It could incentivize players to try more gear with Tougness stats in lets say another equipment tab.

+ as others said with new pet skills being Beast skills.

ty

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Bealis.6023

[Visbale.6951]

Please consider improve attack/stop commands for pets.

Pets now have all abilities that SoulBeast mode have, i mean: i dont have anymore attack/return options to control where/who my pet will attack.

Meanwhile, i have only return to me option, that i cant keybind and i cant send my pet for the target until my F1/2/3 skills recharge.

Solution for this problem: make "Return to me" be flexible. I mean: while my pet is attacking something, the option return should show up, and while my pet its in "peace mode", the option attack should show up. And please, a possibility for keybind.

And now a little bug:
F1 abilties countdown doesnt work, the seconds are invisible(?).

Edited November 1, 2021 by Visbale.6951

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, Bealis.6023 said:

 

Unleashed F5 skill seems kinda underwhelming at this stage, at least on variety/fun factor. It gives "just" 3 new pet skills and changes 4 hammer skills. If not counting offense/defense mechanic, thats just it.

 

 

 

Yeah, and F5 seems to force the hammer as the weapon.  At least with SB you can use practically any weapon and with druid you can still gain CA juice with other weapons (just not as fast) and use the CA.  Seems to me that there aren't much options outside of hammer to make this build "work" and even then it's marginal.  In my opinion.

[kharmin.7683]

Just now, Visbale.6951 said:

 

I realize that pets now have all abilities that SoulBeast mode have, i mean: i dont have anymore attack/return options to control where/who my pet will attack.

Meanwhile, i know i have only return to me option, that i cant keybind and i cant send my pet for the target until my F1/2/3 skills recharge.

Solution for this problem: make "Return to me" be flexible. I mean: while my pet is attacking something, the option return should show up, and while my pet its in "peace mode", the option attack should show up.

 

Agreed.  I use this send/return frequently on my core ranger and soulbeast (when not merged).  This elite loses this ability.

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

I don't understand the concept of this class. It's only sense seems to be in zerg fights. And this class is good in zerg fights, if other disables the enemies for you. There are just a few pets that can disable, that you can use your "super-power-damage when disabled"-skills. But to coordinate pet, enemy and your 1 sec casttime skills is a nearly impossible task. In addition, the class has no new boons or conditions, than the standard ranger stuff (might, fury, cripple, vulnerability, immobility). An this boons are not shared in a zerg. So the zerg groupplay is just as egoistic as the whole ranger class and it's especs (yes, druid, too).

 

In small group fights or 1vs1, this class has no mobility, that you can't hit anything with your super slow hammer. If you use your teleport, the enemy is with one dodge out of range for the next 20 seconds. nature's binding seems buggy. I can't cage anyone in a 1vs1 (block? evade? stability? range? don't know). In a group fight i can bind max. 2 enemies Oo. Moment of clarity and other increases of daze don't increase daze of hammer or pet skills.

 

Then we have 3 switchs. Changing pets, changing weapons, changing untame status. With this combinations it is really complicated to understand what is your current mode. In a fight, I have always to watch my current pet, weapon and untame status.

 

All in all, this class is really underwhelming. I haven't found one useful build for wvw with this class. For a beastmaster the beast often ignores fights, if you are not standing next to it and hit the enemy and the pet AI is as stupid as it was from beginning of gw2. For a interrupting class your defence is really fragile, while you're in the position to disable enemies. For a tank class, there is no mobility and no buff sharing.

[MihaiSnm.9275]

Add unleashed to other weapons

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Right now my bigger concern is that this E-Spec feels like it's nerfing the other weapon's potential. Hammer has a great synergy with it because it's built with hammer in mind, but other weapons just flat out feel bad. 

I ran the same Berserker set between Soulbeast and Untamed on Bow and holy heck Bow Untamed was horrendous. Focusing too much on one weapon without adjusting the others is probably the biggest flaw on this E-Spec right now. I get that it's meant to be a Hammer focused E-Spec but don't force everything in a single weapon. Soulbeast and Druid do just fine without having to use the E-Spec weapon, this one just makes you use Hammer and really nothing else. 

[Infusion.7149]

I'd look to see AoE revealed on the Untamed pet skills , maybe on Enveloping Haze. That along with targeted boon rip (i.e. ripping protection exclusively as on revenant's Brutality trait) could make it a stronger pick than soulbeast in some situations.

It isn't as robust as soulbeast in terms of flexibility because there is little to no condition supporting traits or utilities. Despite soulbeast having a power damage modifier, Untamed appears to only have 15% maximum power damage bonus which requires continuous damage , on Soulbeast you would only need to have fury. That doesn't even include a massive +300 ferocity bonus (20% cit damage) you lose out by not being able to merge with beastmastery traitline on a power build.

If it is to be wanted in WvW, since scrappers will remain a mainstay in WvW then a bonus to barriers similar to Warrior's Cunning trait on warrior should be in place or possibly even a barrier removal on CC. Of course the AoE reveal I mentioned above would also make it better in that respect.

If the flexibility of Untamed is to be increased I would look into having an unleashed version of the axe mainhand as it is conducive to a hybrid build , perhaps axe+axe offhand with torch as a swap. Maybe the Corrupting Vines trait could add bleeding or poison when you CC someone much as spellbreaker rips boons on CC. That would certainly add a different component to exploding spores.

Untamed inherently favors pets with better tracking so I can see Smokescale being a top pick since it also happens to have power damage.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[hugo.4705]

Well i tested the specs some times around the maps. Feels good. I like it so far, will trade my soul-beast for that one definitely. I feel strong, the mechanic/ concept of corrupted/unleashed pet/ranger is cool, i like utilities and the hammer feels fluid and fun. Good job, especially for hammer as weapon, feels very good and nicely executed.

[Kain Francois.4328]

8 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Right now my bigger concern is that this E-Spec feels like it's nerfing the other weapon's potential. Hammer has a great synergy with it because it's built with hammer in mind, but other weapons just flat out feel bad. 

I ran the same Berserker set between Soulbeast and Untamed on Bow and holy heck Bow Untamed was horrendous. Focusing too much on one weapon without adjusting the others is probably the biggest flaw on this E-Spec right now. I get that it's meant to be a Hammer focused E-Spec but don't force everything in a single weapon. Soulbeast and Druid do just fine without having to use the E-Spec weapon, this one just makes you use Hammer and really nothing else. 

Have you ever considered the problem might be your approach?
Why are you judging the class based on Bow?

Greatsword works just fine, and has even more synergy with the pet now that you can time the skills with Maul.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Kain Francois.4328

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

unnatural traversel should only go on CD when used on a target. if you have something else in target you dont port and  its on CD. Or let use set an AoE Target

i killed some HP in HoT. Untamed is nearly unkillable. but something is missing. imo Soulbeast hits harder and also can get the job done. And its less work. 

that (curently) only hammer skill changes is a big bummer

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Just now, Kain Francois.4328 said:

Have you ever considered the problem might be your approach?

Why are you judging the class based on Bow?

 

Greatsword works just fine, and has even more synergy with the pet now that you can time the skills with Maul.

I used every weapon on this E-Spec with 3 different set stats, including Condi Shortbow and they still fall short compared to base Ranger and Soulbeast. 

The E-Spec literally focuses too much on giving bonus to a singular weapon when all the other weapons only get a Damage Buff or a Damage Nerf depending on the Unleashed state. This is the only E-Spec right now that outright nerfs weapons based on a certain state whereas the other two mostly maintain the same level of output as Base or improves upon it, it doesn't randomly nerf it with a single GM trait. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

After 1 game of pvp.
1 this spec has potential for some cool interactions, like teleporting the pet it, landing CC, switching pet and bursting.
I actually think it can bring loads of cool gameplay.
Issues
1 class is slow as kitten
2 it cant survive being this slow as kitten
3 0 mobility on hammer is a joke
4 pets doesnt even have an attack button, who the kitten coded this?
5 I think pet teleport bugged on me at least 90% of the time, why isnt this like a rev teleport that teleports you even when out of range, its super frustrating and I wont play the spec untill something gets done about it ( expecially since you cant even order the pet to attack in the first place -.- )
After playing some more.
1 you are forced to be a full bunker, you dont have enough cleansing in untamed tree so you are forced into WS as always, and with it damage gets kitten and it turns it into this slow blob of spamming healing like prot-holo.
I personally hate it, but I think making brainless bunker was the entire point so GJ I guess? I was hoping for a bruiser spec tho...

Suggestions :
1 Give our pet attack command
2 Consider reducing untamed F skill swap, it just hinders interesting combos with the pet ( it might be too strong, but it would be MUCH more fun, and in pve while dps only matters, it would kitten dps less and let you actually use the utility )
3 F1 pet teleport, needs to work properly, make it teleport 900 units towards the target, even when out of range.
4 I had scenarios where pet F3 did nothing and went on CD, even out of combad ( so not interupted or anything ). It might be bugged?
 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Early thoughts...

 

When ranger is unleashed, pet skills do not show CD in seconds; CD in second works for pet unleashed pet skills

 

Cleansing unleash seems bad, because it's a single condi every 10 sec when we already have two condi's cleared every 10 sec on dodge roll in NM.  I get the NM one is conditional (could remove one if you only have all of one type on you)--but would be nice if Cleansing Unleash removed at least 2 or at worst matched Evasive Purities one damaging one non-damaging.

 

Unnatural Traversal would be so much more useable if it wasn't target locked--would be nice to work like thief's SB / ground targeted, and still include the bonuses if we hit something with it.  Right now, it isn't very useful at all, because it is an entire utility slot for what amounts to a gap closer (so many will just take greatsword instead of hammer).  

 

Natural Fortitude is so bad compared to other ranger specs--especially compared with furious strength.  It needs something other than plain vitality.

 

Untamed traits seem very disjointed.  They don't share boons with pets (unless NM is taken) and the conditions don't trigger on pet CC.  Since this is a pet focused spec they really need to have some interaction with the pet---for instance, 'Enhancing Impact' should trigger on pet CC and at least give the ranger the boons.  I say ranger because there is no way to copy boons back to ranger like soulbeast has (other than burn WhAO).  

 

Ferocious Symbiosis only seems to work when the pet strikes something--my personal AA's were not triggering it

 

Other gripes are that the 'unleashed' visual effect overpowers the characters entire look--there has to be a better way.

 

In addition, if the spec is named untamed why are the states 'unleashed'? Can we either get the spec renamed to 'unleashed' or the states 'tamed' and 'untamed' (despite being non-sensical as toggle in terms of actual meaning)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[babak.3654]

Hammer skills feel very slow, it's like playing warrior in 2014. Damage seems low too. I'm going to echo the 'half-assed' comment of a poster above: Why does only the hammer get unleashed skills? Why do the pets all get the same unleashed skills?

[Dante.6987]

I cant even describe how dissapointed I am.. the skills are underwhelming as hell, I mean a blink or shadowstep or whatever on a 40s cooldown(20 if you hit something)... just for the sake of "everything has shadowsteps now so lets give ranger one too LUL" which applies 2 stacks of vulnerability... the exploding spores are... ok I guess...the heal skill is useless if your pet is dead. Frontline bruiser my kitten.. and why do you even want to make this a pvp/wvw oriented spec? Im forced to use the sluggish goddamned hammer, with 0 movement abilities. But if I swap weapons, then the whole spec basically becomes pointless. I mean... What? why cant we get something like mirage ambush skills for the other weapons? The devs even scrapped that idea? May I ask why? so we can have a half assed pointless spec which brings almost nothing new to the table? Why do all the pets have the same unleash abilities? This feels like it was thrown together in a hurry, even the traits are a letdown. We dont get anything new, like maybe alacrity or barrier, which is a shame..Engi is what untamed should have been..  There is still time to work on this, maybe you the devs come up with something that is actually fun to play.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Dante.6987

[Danikat.8537]

A bit of general feedback: I like what we've got (especially the skills) but it feels a bit lacking. Unless you're using a hammer swapping only affects the pet skills and while it's nice to have more of those it doesn't make a big difference. My first assumption is that it would change your stats like soulbeast does, but that doesn't happen and on further consideration might make this spec too similar to soulbeast. Something else would be nice though. Maybe it could change the new cantrip skills as well, or 1 (or more) skills on each weapon? Something to make it feel more meaningful than just 2 sets of 3 pet skills.

Finally I'm not a fan of the aesthetics, specifically the green slime which covers the ranger when unleashed and the look of the spores summoned by the Exploding Spores skill, both look more like some sort of corruption than 'nature unleashed'.

I do really like the new utility skills though. Ever since ground targeted traps were removed years ago I've struggled to find a mix of utility skills I like using and I think Exploding Spores, Unnatural Traversal and Natures Binding (used in different situations, not all together) are going to be a big help.

I think at the moment my ideal ranger would be a soulbeast with unleashed utility skills, so I might keep going between the two at least for a while, but even then it's nice to have options.
 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Danikat.8537
Bugs moved to the bug thread

[Seal.8029]

Untamed seems kinda boring. Will probably make a spec, just for accomplishment. Soulbeast seems much more fun. 

[Danikat.8537]

Moved to bugs thread.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Danikat.8537

[Caid.4932]

Wasn't much that really stood out about it or seemed especially noteworthy. Which is probably good, it works basically. Lack of a movement skill on hammer is a bit bleh but shadowstep utility and greatsword secondary filled the gap well enough.

Ranged pets getting teleported into melee range isn't too helpful and lack of keybinds for pet attack or pet follow is a mistake i'd say.

Think i'd agree about the lack of unleashed changes on other weapons. I usually switched to pet unleash when i switched to greatsword but ended up in a habit of just not using the leashed hammer skills. Felt a bit wrong not to be taking advantage of all that cc (which is more interesting than extra damage) and the unleash cooldown was too long to mix and match really.

Thinking back on it, it just became a 2nd button to press when swapping weapons which feels a slightly weak mechanic.

[BadSanta.6527]

So far i love it .

My hybrid dps tank build is fun for me to play

In open world.

What i dont like is not all wepons have skill change with the mechanic .

Really hope all rangers wepons will get skills fleep for more flavor

[Vertas.6518]

Hammer is garbage.

Ranger has always been about mobility. Make sure to add at least one jump with 750 range. Say, #4. 

There's no defense in hammer kit. The autoattack lacks special effect. I suggest adding 1/4 sec of daze on the 3rd strike, and replacing daze on #4 with 1.5 evade or block.

Without these changes hammer won't be used in PVP or WVW, greatsword is so much better.

 

The ultimate is bad, Untamed will just be kited all the time (with or w/o it). Ult must have offensive component, like constant stacking of vulnerability around.

Blink skill is bad, too. Needs to have like 15 sec cd and be able to target ground.

 

Since I'm writing it anyway, change Hornet Sting to smth useful, add 2.5 sec cripple to soulbeast's dagger #2 and MAKE DRUID VIABLE!

 

Thanks.

[Anodic.6712]

I think that the skill icons for the unleashed and not-unleashed mode for hammer should be switched around personally, the green keeps making me think I'm not in unleashed mode

[Swagger.1459]

The Unleashed state is not very appealing looking. Perhaps the Unleashed state could be "leaves" falling off and floating around the character and pet. 

Something like this from Kudzo when you draw the weapon...

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Swagger.1459

[InsaneQR.7412]

First the feedback, then the rant:

 

Feedback:

 

1. Hammer is awesome, I really like the flow of that weapon tbh, but it feels horribly bad that only hammer gets unleashed boni while the rest of the wepaons feel like a waste of time. I would love if all weapons would benefit from unleash. It would open up so many new possibilities. 

 

2. The utility skills are a bit of a mixed bag. I dont like the healing skill. it might be a decent heal but it kills of your class mechanic which is as if mesmers would get a heal that destroys all their clones or warriors would lose their adrenaline on a heal for some invulnerability. The lack of possible petswap is ok and understandable. Maybe change the heal so that it heals depending on the health of your pet without harming it, This way you could still counterplay the heal. The teleport skill is really good although I would love to see a proper stunbreak on it, otehrwise the condi cleanse would also be a fantastic stunbreak. The spores would be great if they would also apply poison on hit (The spec has some possibilities for a condi playstyle but barely touches it). the condi cleanse skill is ok but as touched above it would be a good candidate for a stunbreak. The ward skill that nails enemies down in one location would also be a cool candidate if it would apply damaging conditions like bleed for example if the target gets CC while in the field. The elite is good, no complains there.

 

3. The traits:

 

Adept traits:

I think the adept traits are reaaaaally boring:

Debilitating blows is probably the more interesting one but still you just get some vuln while on aggressive mode that does not really give you anything on ranger which is stacked with vuln application. I would love to see that you would apply posion instead of vuln. In PvE this could make hammer an interesting condi choice (and posion master would finally find its uses) while for PvP/WvW it could diminish the healing of your enemies or force a cleanse first which would make this a nice offensive trait. This trait could also boost venomous outburst so that it has a shorter cooldown.

Cleansing Unleash is just, you know. ONE CONDI EVERY10S. With nature magic i can cleanse 2 with just a dodge and with WS with every survival skill. This feels just like barely even a trait. What i would like to see instead is that you would strike enemies arround you when you unleash and cleanse conditions. If they are disabled you transfer your conditions instead. 

Lastly for blinding outburst, i would make this the unleash trait that applies blind to all enemies arround you when you unleash. Its still simple but an instant on demand blind. M;aybe add the vuln taht i removed earlier and place it here instead to give teh trit a bit more substance.

 

Master Traits:

Enhancing Impact: Good trait.

Bolstering Unleash: Unleash is to infrequent to make this worth while. If this would provide those boons to allies too this would be a good trait.

Corrupting vines: Good Trait.

 

GM Traits: All good traits.

 

Unleashed skills:

Venoumous outburst: Not bad but i would like it more if it would be a ground target and then atatck anything close to it.

Rending Vines: Ok skill. Some bleed on it woudl be cool.

Envolopoing Haze: Really cool skill but the chill makes no sense. Immob would be more fitting and would make this feel like the inescapable trap it should be.

 

Non unleashed pet:

1. Make the skill control baseline, Give us control over 1 CC skill and the pets F2 skill. Make all the pet based buff skills triggerable through petswap. So your moa would heal you when you swap to your moa or your bird would give you a speed boost when you swap to your bird etc. tis ofc would need overhaul of certain pet skills but it would make pets much moree streamlined and controllable. Give us a way to place our pets position. this could replace leash or even attack my target. a placement system to command your pet where to go would help a lot in controlling it.

2. Improve all pet movement skills so the pet actually can close into  target. the reason why smokescale is so good is because it jumps at your foes immediately and deals good damage. It also has good utility and CC. Smokescale shoudl be the baseline how good a pet should be.

3. Improve all pet skills in general, most core pets are just straight up bad and with untamed you really really feel it how bad they actually are.

 

The tradeoff: I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE IT.

I mean i dont hate the untamed vow. Thats fine. 

I dont like the absolutely unelegant flow of the class mechanic. Unleash feels like a weaponswap and petswap in one and I feel punished for swapping weapins and my pet feels restrained when i go out from unleash. Meanwhile i deal less damage because i am not unleashed in the meantime. I unironically think that untamed feels off in its flow and usability. This is mainly though due to the bad petskills outside of unleash.

 

 

 

So now the rant:

 

I played mechanist. And i was disgusted. I was disgusted how good that pet mech is. It does not only inherit our stats, it has a FREAKING BREAKBAR IN PVE and it has tons of customizability. Each trait the mechanist gets benefits not only the pet but also gives something to the engi, especially the boon line. PLUS it does benefit from other traitlines. This is a horrible insult to all ranger mains which didnt got a single substantial pet upadte within the last 9 years.

 

1. Give pets a breakbar in PVE. You can do it for engis, so we deserve one too. (its fantastic btw)

 

2.Give us traits that make our pets actually useful. Oh rangers get a trait that taunts once on a beastskill, meanwhile the new kid on the block gets a trait that makes it launch HUGE DAMAGING MISSILES THAT LAUNCHES ENEMIES, oh rangerscan give their pet some health regen, meanwhile the mech blasts out barrier to itself and allies and cannot die unless you suffer from severe brain damage while piloting

 

3. THE OLD PETS ARE ALL BUGGED; THEY DO NOT REACT ON QUICKNESS AND DO NOT GET ANY BENEFIT FROM IT. The mech is happily slapping kitten fast in the emantime

 

4. Make our pets the utility tool we need and not the DPS AI that gets nerfed. Give US the damage, give our pets a purpose outside of it instead. back to example smokescale: SS does provide a good combo field, good defense through blinds, CC and it has fantastic sticking potential. WE NEED STICKING POTENTIAL AND WE NEED IT OUTSIDE OF AN E-SPEC.

 

5. PETS DO NOT HAVE CONSISTENT PRECISION CALCULATIONS AND THEIR TOOLTIPS ARE ALL WRONG

 

6. PORCINES ARE THE WORST DESIGNED PETS; THE BUNDELS CAN BE PICKED UP BY ENEMY PLAYEERS, please make those skills like steal instead.

 

 

 

Rant ended. I hope this was some valuable input from a loyal ranger main since 2012. Cheers.