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Untamed Feedback Thread


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2 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Hammer is great if you are like 130 units away from anything (oh one skill is only useable 120 units away). This is a great idea if you want to stand hit something close up. Execept this is a Ranger and they will die.

i've done my ranger up entirely on Greatsword + Dagger/Axe and havent found myself dying for being perma melee with enemy monsters :P. i mean we really arent that squishy.

16 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Perma hulk mode on the ranger means my pet does nothing new and no new skills on the weapons means this brings little to nothing new to the table for pve play.

I can agree with this.. and i think its largely because its only Effecting Hammer.. (CC has its place in PvE sure. but Hammers gonna have to be the best DPS Choice to make use of anyting it gives you. otherwise u may aswell be soulbeast)

10 minutes ago, Johnny.1634 said:

Untamed is a disaster, a disappointment, and yet another failure. These are the solutions^^^^

looking at the prior 6 wasnt this expected tho xD, every elite so far has felt Buggy, Messy, Disconjointed and weak i feel like people have tried the ifrst 3 gotten let down. forgotten it somehow and go back to high expectation on the next 3 :P.

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I was hoping each pet or at least pet family at bare minimum would have different unleash skills. Instead it seems it's 3 of same skills on all pets:/ Major letdown.

Not only does normal ranger not have a keybind to stow your pet, the Untamed specialization completely disables your ability to stow your pet!!   Please add an option to be able to stow your

when i use Unlseash skill (F5) , only my hammer weapon skills are changed. Why ? e.g. longbow skills are unchanged. Am i forced to use hammer to take all advantages of this Specialziation? In othe

I was testing the Untamed in WvW we can still drop thieves easy but it does feel like a normal Ranger build with Rampage. In WvW if feels a little odd maybe I am used to Soul Beast but it is nice that we can control the pet's hits. I am still tying to get used to the hammer and trying the front line as they state that were it will shine. I did had to switch my GS to LB in WvW to help more in the fights and I found it better than GS and then back to Hammer  if they got too close.

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Untamed feels lacking in versatile build options, especially from a PvE perspective.

I understand this build's design space doesn't emphasise much for PvE encounters but it's disappointing that it doesn't seem to offer anything particularly relevant or cohesive there. 

I was really excited about the potential for condi Untamed to compete with condi Soulbeast when I saw the pet Unleashed skills had condis attached. 

Unfortunately condi Untamed feels really unsupported by the new options, with the Hammer lacking condi damage and hogging all of the unleashed effects. I know it was mentioned on the showcase that the intent was to push Hammer as the Untamed's new toy to play with, but it really limits what the spec is capable of. 

This feels particularly noticeable when compared to Soulbeast which is extremely versatile, with viable power and condi builds neatly packaged in the same spec. 

At the very least, please consider adding at least 1 unleashed skill to each of the old weapons that can push potential Untamed builds into usefulness. This is especially important for condi builds which aren't supported by the kit otherwise.

The traits for this spec feel really weak, and I think condi Untamed could be vastly improved by adding new damaging condition sources onto some of the trait options. 

I was also very disappointed to find that the trait Fervent Force (disabling foes reduces CDs of equipped skills) doesn't apply from your pet's CC. I tested with an Iboga since it's got a lot of condis in its abilities, but the Iboga pull didn't trigger the CD reduction. 

(Unsure if this is a bug or intended design, but if intended please reconsider or split the skill between PvP/WvW and PvE if it could be problematic).

I was REALLY excited by the design of Untamed. It pushed the components of the 'pet warrior' fantasy I adore, but I'm disappointed by the execution as it feels really niche and lacklustre.

Edit:
Feel like it's a big missed opportunity that Untamed's kit isn't stuffed full of poison and bleed effects! Aesthetically, they're the conditions that overlap the most with the whole unleashed nature thing, let us be a storm of brambles that wears down foes. Also fits with the bruiser-y role I think. 

Edited by Gyousa.5609
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Overall i dont like the unleashed mechanic. I dont like having a 3rd weapon swap mechanic, it just doesn't add anything to the class. I dont like being stuck in 'take more damage mode' or waiting for 'do damage mode' to hurry up and come off cooldown. I dont really like the unleashed hammer skills. Damage, Damage, Damage and Damage isn't an interesting selection. Throw the cc's from leashed with the extra damge when cc'd from unleashed and you might have a fairly fun weapon to use. No mobility feels bad too, the shadowstep utility definitely helps but needing a utility skill for a weapon to not feel a bit horrible to use isn't a great situation.

The only new utility i used were the elite and shadowstep.

The cc rings will have their use in wvw zergs but this class definitely wont so dont see that getting used, its just not that good in pve - ai doesn't move around that much.

I used the condi cleanse for a bit but its kind of a dull defensive cooldown thats a bit too situational. The high cooldown makes you want to hold it for when you have a lot of conditions but if something is putting out 3+ conditions then they're doing it a hell of a lot more often than every 30 seconds, I mean it helps but it cant be your only condi solution. It should break stuns too really, and the vulnerability is just unnecessary, its simply not good enough to warrant a trade off.

The knockback / damage utility is terrible - terrible damage and the knockback is reliably unreliable.

I didn't even consider using the new heal for a second. I'm not sure what the thinking with that was.

The Elite is a different flavour of rampage as one - which works i guess. Cooldown is kind of excessive, makes stability feel like a feast or famine kind of a deal which i dont love.

Pet skills still take a week to fire off after hitting the button and losing the 'attack my target' and 'follow me' buttons hurts more than having access to skills helps. Traits are a bit of a mixed bag, they're ok i guess. Oh and +1 for hating the ugly sewage aura.

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12 minutes ago, Gyousa.5609 said:

I know it was mentioned on the showcase that the intent was to push Hammer as the Untamed's new toy to play with, but it really limits what the spec is capable of. 

i just wish they'd keep to the same idea.. Some proffessions get their mechanic for everything. others dont. its weird theyv'e made this decision really.. as the mechanic should work for all weapons.

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Just now, Daddy.8125 said:

i just wish they'd keep to the same idea.. Some proffessions get their mechanic for everything. others dont. its weird theyv'e made this decision really.. as the mechanic should work for all weapons.

 

It'd be fine if it was similar to Druid Staff where every weapon still interacts with the new spec mechanic but the spec's weapon does it best.

 

They slapped a 15% damage increase a trait for being unleashed but it's just not enough, especially when compared to Soulbeast. And even if it was 'enough' to make other weapons worth using, it's far less interesting and dynamic than offering the rest of the kit new functionality.

 

Not asking for a full on Unleashed redesign of every single weapon skill Ranger has, but something to make Untamed feel less like it's a parasitic hammer taped to my Ranger's kit :V

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None of the Unleashed pet abilities count as "Beast" abilities, so it feels like many of our traits are only usable half the time (when the pet is not Unleashed). Likewise, Untamed trait Blinding Outburst (Venomous Outburst applies blindness in addition to its other effects) is essentially a copy-paste of the Beastmastery trait Go for the Eyes (Nearby foes are blinding by Beast abilities). At least one Unleashed pet skill should be classified as a Beast skill and Blinding Outburst should be changed to do something else. As it is now you have two traits that essentially only work half of the time (one in Unleashed mode, one outside of).

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Having manual control over something like Smokescale's knock is godlike. Not having the ability to tell it to just regularly engage things is really bad feeling.

That slot being something like the feline bite, a 6s CD that doesn't do anything is also not great feeling.

I've said for a long time that ranger needs better control over the pet skills, but I don't think it feels particularly great for plain damage skills like those, and it really should not have come in exchange for losing the other pet controls. It's excellent on Smoke/Deer/Jaca or other pets where said attacks are more meaningful, but not so much on others.

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initial thoughts, pvp/wvw perspective...

 

hammer: is really fun, I can't see it beating out longbow, but much of the criticism about lack of defensive utility is unjustified given how much cc it brings

 

having access to pet abilities IS AN EVEN BIGGER BUFF THAT NOT MANAGING PET HP WAS FOR SOULBEST, I kittenING LOVE ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO MADE THIS HAPPEN!

 

utilities: are all really well done, using different ones against different comps is gonna be very important though, there's no reason to pick the port but thats only because the 2 cc ones are SO good (and third utility has to be a stunbreak for pvp/wvw obviously)

 

traits: allow for so much build diversity that it really just highlights how 6 build templates isn't nearly enough, anet please give us like 20, I could legit use 50 for my ele, engi, and now ranger

 

at first I was really disappointed by the loss of attack/return, but since we can use so many dif pet abilities to initiate the pet moving towards a target its really not the issue everyone makes it out to be EXCEPT for pets with higher cds, I don't use those pets though fortunately 

 

not having untamed abilities on non hammer weapons is a good thing imo, core weapons should stay as is and while I understand the knee jerk reaction to not having them, I prefer it

 

only suggestions I have would be:

 

1. stow pet has to be an option, there's no justification for losing stow pet unless it literally cannot be done because of back end issues, which I really doubt but wouldn't mind waiting for so long as we hear that its in the works

 

2. the untamed aura on toon/pet is really ugly but Its really not something that needs to change, I can understand how people are upset but for me personally Its not worth anet investing into

 

3. pet hp will preclude this being viable in group fights in pvp/wvw please reduce pet cd punishment for dying significantly or everyone is gonna have to return to soulbeast aside from roamers side nodes, and there is SO MUCH POTENTIAL from frontline/mid node pvp bruiser builds if this is fixes

 

props anet, this is so much fun

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Anet should have already made this change to how they refer to damage (strike vs condition), but two Untamed traits (Vow of the Untamed and Ferocious Symbiosis) say they increase damage and don't specify what kind. Condition damage is unaffected, only affects strike damage.

Vow of the Untamed says it increases "outgoing ... damage" with "Outgoing Damage Adjustment: 15%". Sounds like Outgoing Damage should refer to both Condi and Strike damage.

Ferocious Symbiosis says " ... increased damage" the buff gives "+3% Damage". The buff uses the wording as expected, but the trait does not specify only strike damage.

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After testing the spec a bit more and thinking about the conundrum, I would have a new suggestion:

Lock weapon swap during combat. Effects from related traits such as Tail Wind, Furious Grip and Quick Draw from the Skirmishing line could be carried over to the Unleashed trigger (similar as were pet swap traits with SB). It could possibly solve two things:

  1. In case of making new Unleashed skills for other weapons to make the specialization more interesting (which is I believe most viable thing to do now so the Untamed wasnt just a hammer spec) , it would stand as a way of trade-off for powercreep issues that were even mentioned during the preview.
  2. It would get rid off of 3 triggers, which are too much of a hassle for many players.

And change at least one Unleashed pet skill based on a pet family (different combo fields for instance). Having two of them profiting from CC is well enough, considering other weapons are not really heavy on CC and they need to be in not-unleashed state in order for Unleashed pet to trigger the conditions.

Edited by Bealis.6023
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22 minutes ago, Bealis.6023 said:

After testing the spec a bit more and thinking about the conundrum, I would have a new suggestion:

Lock weapon swap during combat. Effects from related traits such as Tail Wind, Furious Grip and Quick Draw from the Skirmishing line could be carried over to the Unleashed trigger (similar as were pet swap traits with SB). It could possibly solve two things:

  1. In case of making new Unleashed skills for other weapons to make the specialization more interesting (which is I believe most viable thing to do now so the Untamed wasnt just a hammer spec) , it would stand as a way of trade-off for powercreep issues that were even mentioned during the preview.
  2. It would get rid off of 3 triggers, which are too much of a hassle for many players.

I have seen someone else point out how us having 3 triggers (weapon swap, pet swap, unleashed stance) can be a lot. Something like removing another pet or a weapon set would be interesting, but both have some pretty notable effects which I'm not sure would be helpful.

Removing a pet can heavily cripple us since if the pet dies, we have no way of rezzing it like Soulbeast does. Would require something like Unleashed swap causing it to full heal. It's also the exact same trade-off as Soulbeast which makes it seem kinda "ehh" in my opinion.

Removing a weapon swap, especially at this stage, would be crippling. If every weapon got an Unleashed version similar to hammer, it would be a solid "maybe", but hammer right now shares weapon CDs between both states. So even if we had our Unleashed swap give us a new weapon set, we'd now be restricted to not wanting to use certain skills because we won't be able to use the other one when we swap, something that I don't think any other class or spec has to worry about.

As it is now a suggestion like that should not even be considered.

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After playing Untamed a bit more I'm not sure what I'm necessarily meant to be giving feedback about, other than the spec mechanic feeling hollow.

 

I unleash, I cover myself in goo.

My hammer gets another set of attacks, which I don't always want to use and bad luck if I don't want to use a hammer.

I switch weapons to use another set of cooldowns, and all that changes is the weapon skills get a slight damage bump compared to core Ranger.

 

I unleash my pet, it gets covered in goo.

My pet gets another set of attacks, which I kinda do want to use.

I switch my pet but it gets the same 3 attacks.

 

The lack of unleash skills on other weapons is painfully obvious, unfortunately. The lack of variety in the pet unleash skills is even more painfully obvious as every pet feels the same when unleashed. 

 

Overall the spec feels like core Ranger caught a disease I have to pass back and forth between my pet. At first I thought the lack of non-hammer unleashed weapon skills was the most negative thing affecting how the spec feels, but now all I can think about is how when I unleash the power of nature in my pet it's just... the same.

 

My tiger when overcharged with natural energy is... functionally identical to my owl. To my bears. To my jacaranda, to my wyverns, to everything. There's no family identity. Nothing that screams "THIS is the expression of a cat as a force of nature!" which is different to other pets.

 

Hell, the only thing that changes when I switch my unleashed pet is their base stats and health.
And the more I play it, the more it feels samey without any hope for build diversity interacting with the Unleash mechanic in its current state.

It's hammer or bust, then every pet's identity turns into the same mushy texture with the same abilities when you unleash them.

 

We don't even get Beast ability traits interacting with the pet's unleashed abilities.

 

Unfortunate 😞 hoping for some major changes.

Edit:
I'd like to suggest that each pet augments the Unleashed abilities in some way. If it's too much work to completely design a few options spread and mixed amongst the pets/families, at least have each pet contribute some kind of change to the abilities, like combo fields, or which condis are applies, maybe some pets could turn the projectile hate field into a reflect field, idk.

Edited by Gyousa.5609
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The main feedback I have on this:

1. While there are lots of resulting effects when unleashing, it feels like the most compelling reason to swap unleash is for the boons from the traits and not the differences in the pet/hammer unleash skills. That pushes for swapping on CD instead of strategic reason of accessing unleash-enhanced skills.

2. Swapping Unleash - I struggle with this unleashing mechanic because when I make a build, I'm looking for it to do something specific but the very act of Unleashing actually makes the build do two things, one of which isn't needed or isn't optimal. 

3. If you decide to camp self-unleash, none of the Adept or Master Traits do anything unless you plan on Disabling like a fiend (which unleashed Hammer skills DON'T do for you). If you decide to camp, it's pet unleash and  1-1-X on the trait. I guess that pretty much indicates that you better be swapping and considering it to play this build optimally. 

I can't really see myself using this spec unless I find some very specific situations where getting CC from Hammer skills compliments some unleashed Pet skills or regular pet skills compliment some unleashed hammer skills. 

Very minor issue: I hate the way it looks like there is a stink cloud floating around me or my pet all the time. Start calling the Espec "Unbathed"

Edited by Obtena.7952
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First impressions show that this will easily be our weakest spec dps wise, even druid could outdps and outcc it if the conditions are right. 

And pets end up weaker unless you constantly remember to use abilities that should be autocastable, why not allow us to set pet abilities to autocast, then they'd still use them without extra input and we can select which ones they use, say stop birds from casting swiftness. 

Feels clunky, and extremely weak. And we take MORE damage when unleashed? why? 
So if you don't use hammer, there is literally never a reason to take it off the pet right? cause all it does is make you weaker. But then the class is designed for you to swap constantly due to traits that would be entirely useless. SB allowed you to stay merged or unmerged, it was your choice...

I just don't get what they were going for when they designed this spec, and how Engineers go and get a better pet that is customizable and stronger with a break bar that can outdps this entire class by itself. 

the ONLY saving grace is the aoe projectile block, which again is more anti-projectile power creep. The dome is huge and could stop range attacks entirely. Which means playing LB/SB is now again, even worse then before with this constant anti-range powercreep. Give us some more access to unblockable already. 

 

Edited by Gorem.8104
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To me Untamed is very terribly designed boring spec. Here is why:
1. hammer is just unfun, melee, long casts, 3 spells have the same animation which is nothing special, it is really nothing unique with weapon then just hitting the target with flat damage, very very bad.
2. utility skills are ok but, healing skill should not heal on pet's current health but something differently or just add some naturaly healing steroid to pet or undead ability while unleashed.

3. there is not enough cc in rangers kit to really apply too many disables to really benefit all effects coming with applying disable skills. Also pet cc is not working with such effects. 
4. traits feels like you get 3 sec prot or 5 might like wtf.....and another trait is you get some quickness or w/e it is so bad. Like stop giving us weak short duration useless boons as a whole theme of the spec nor flat stats. Give us unique effects, functions, gameplay!
5. Having same unleashed pet skills for all pets is just big yikes, you guys could make so many skills for spulbeast last time and this time you can't do the same for pets? It is very lazy, very uncreative from what i can see and i wouldn't play untamed ever with how it is now.

Untamed is unfinished. Like why not giving a ranger a shotgun riffle as hunter, like it shoot a duck and pet goes and pick it up for owner? Why hammer? Why doing same mistake as you did for catalyst? 

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4 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Didn't enjoy using the hammer.  Felt slow and clunky.

 

Weirdly I thought the spec did better with greatsword.  And made the somewhat forgotten Longbow do decent damage again.

That's funny because I felt that camping self-Unleash with the GS and a wolf pet was a more effective Untamed build than Hammer was swapping unleash.  Something is off here and I hope Anet can do something. Of all the EoD specs, this is the one that I think is farthest off the mark. 

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The Unleashed Mechanic is currently underwhelming and limiting

(All feedback here is for PvE)

1)  The complete lack of the Unleashed mechanic interaction with other weapons is disappointing and vastly limits Untamed potential.  Frankly, the Unleashed mechanic feels completely unfinished and like it doesn't even exist when merged with the ranger itself.  15% extra damage while Unleashed?  No, "getting 15% more damage while unleashed" does NOT count as an interesting profession mechanic.  I can literally get that from just having Fury while taking Soulbeast with 0 downsides...  I HARD disagree with  @Cal Cohen.2358's assertion in the last Guild Chat that it would be too much power creep to add some sort of interaction with other weapons.  The modifiers within the Untamed traitline are not even close to Soulbeast's level of interaction with both itself AND beastmastery AND Utility skills.  Let that sink in one more time, Soulbeast's Beast Mode literally interacts with an entirely different traitline and utility skills to provide itself additional buffs/effectsIt can literally gets a 40% damage modifier from Sic Em!  The unfortunate thing is, that Ranger NEEDS these huge bonuses to be able to even compete as a Power DPS class.  NO ONE wants their class to be completely left behind when compared with other classes, but Power DPS on Core Ranger was neglected before Soulbeast and now it shows on Untamed.  I think this is what really gets me about this is that Unleashed mode and Untamed do nothing to push the envelope of Core Power Ranger damage (which is, quite honestly, pathetic in relation to other classes) and the excuse of "too much power creep" just completely ignores how extremely lacking Core Power Ranger (and thus by extension Untamed) is.  Also the effectively -25% loss of damage outside of Unleashed is completely insulting which brings me to my next point.

2)  Vow of the Untamed - Leaving Unleashed SHOULD NOT reduce your damage by an additional -10% since you're already  losing the 15% Unleashed buff.  Just revert it back to "leashed" damage after.  Take away the -10% damage loss part of the trait and just leave it as a 10% damage reduction while outside of Unleashed or just remove that part entirely if it's too much of a buff with no downside.  Also the 15% increase in incoming damage is already a big enough downside as it is, no need to punish the spec even further by not being constantly Unleashed. 

3)  The Spec is just missing damage in PvE.  Not enough modifiers to compete with Soulbeast at all and Soulbeast is starting to struggle to compete with other profession's damage specs as it is.   Core Ranger is terrible for power damage and the elites need to fix those issues, or Core Ranger needs to get adequate buffs somehow to support the elites better (this is obviously the worse of the two options).  Untamed doesn't need to be Best in Slot, but should absolutely be able to do AT LEAST Power Reaper levels of damage.  Several of the Untamed traits are extremely lackluster, so more modifiers or damage (or even good pet buffs that provide a substantial damage increase for the pet) should be added to those places instead. 

How to start to fix

1) Add Unleashed Interaction in some form with ALL Core Weapons

2) Remove 10% damage loss outside of Unleashed; you already lose 15% by not being Unleashed

3) Add an additional damage modifier or two somewhere to give Untamed more competitive damage

Edited by LucianTheAngelic.7054
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9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's funny because I felt that camping self-Unleash with the GS and a wolf pet was a more effective Untamed build than Hammer was swapping unleash.  Something is off here and I hope Anet can do something. Of all the EoD specs, this is the one that I think is farthest off the mark. 

That's what I did too.  Also tried Lynx just because :)

 

And the longbow with unleashed on yourself was like extra damage safe mode with healing on every shot.  It was almost too easy.  Not high DPS numbers, though maybe with tweaks it could be.

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Not one of the traits or utility skills interact with the physical pet in any way. Like, what the hell? Literally every trait on this spec should contain the words "and your pet" and there should be additional effects for each of the utility skills that the pet provides or is affected by. The shadowstep utility for example should also step the pet. The vines could have cripple added by the pet, etc. There is a lack of flavor on the Hammer for pet interaction as well. 

The AA chain on Hammer could at least provide something on the last swing like a boon or movement imparing condition. The hammer is in dire need of mobility. A shadowstep on #3 would be nice, or a leap.

F1 shadowstep does nothing if you or the pet are not within range. Really needs to shadowstep regardless and could also be longer range.

None of the traits that trigger on disable work if your pet applies the CC. This occurs with all disable and interrupt traits and sigils.

F5 Unleash has a 10s CD even out of combat. Why does it even have a CD if the hammer skills share a CD? Put an ICD on Cleansing Unleash and Bolstering Unleash instead, remove the CD on unleash. Unleash having a 10s CD is an unecessary time gate on pet skill usage and flow of the Hammer itself too.

 

Pet Unleashed F skills do not interact with Beast traits. The F2 would be the natural choice for this. 

 

Blinding Outburst is just a cut/paste of Go For The Eyes, with a lower CD.

 

Fervent Force does not trigger if you kill the foe with the skill that does CC and damage at the same time.


The unleashed aura is totally obnoxious.


Allow the ability to autocast any/all of the pet skills when the pet is not unleashed. Needing to micro the pets skills every few seconds is annoying and unnecessary.


Debilitating Blows is nearly useless when the player is unleashed, making it unconditionally do cripple as well as the other conditions depending on who's unleashed would give it a lot more usefulness, particularly synergy with Predator's Onslaught.


Ranged pets are completely useless with the Unleashed F skills. All Ranged pets need their projectile speed increased greatly too.


Perilous Gift is just terrible. What other skill is there that all but disables your class mechanic, at which point you can't use your heal skill or class mechanic for 60s? I get you were going for a Grenths Balance type skill mechanic here, but taking half of your pets health is not a good idea. Unless you also want to give the pet Protection and Resolution for like 20s on it. Either that or remove the penalty for the pet dying. Also, what was the point of making it so you cannot pet swap during that 3s window? I understand why, but what is the point of that?
 

Without Beastmastery, a pet cannot hit a moving golem. At all. Not once in 5 minutes. If you use F1 shadowstep and Smoke Assault on CD while swapping in and out of Untamed, it will do about 1 hit with each use of F1 and only 4 hits of the 5 hits from Smoke Assault. And going Takedown (KD) immediately after the Smoke Assault begins means it will miss the KD as well. Pathetic. This is no different with any of the other pets, but the Smokescale has the best chances since it will have two shadowsteps.

Edited by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582
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