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Untamed Feedback Thread


Fire Attunement.9835

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Unleashed pet skills based on animal archetype 

I believe the three unleashed pet skills need to be different based on the pet archetype, as was with the SoulBeast.  This will provide some diversity in build-craft with this elite spec based on pet selection.  This will mitigate the need to provide unleashed versions of the core ranger weapons.

 

The unique pet-related skills based on archetype was a great idea introduced with the SoulBeast. It should continue though the ranger elite spec themes that involve the pets.

 

Animation

The unleashed animation around the pet and ranger is distracting and doesn't look good, frankly. Can you add some simple floaty falling leaves instead? 😄 

Edited by Eric.7813
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After spending a few hours with the spec in open world PVE and a little in SPVP here are my thoughts:

 

  1. Hammer being the only weapon that benefits from being Unleashed is a lot more disappointing that I thought it'd be. If you aren't running hammer then Unleashed is just a damage buff that has no other real effect on what you're doing. Half the time I forget I am even Unleashed, and unless I for some reason want a specific pet ability I have absolutely no incentive to ever switch who is Unleashed during combat.
  2. The pet doesn't really feel empowered when Unleashed. It just gets a different set of skills which while nice also means they can't use their spike damage skills like the drake's tail swipe with the damage bonus from being Unleashed. It also removes the uniqueness of the different pet families from the equation. All for three utility skills that while definitely nice don't leave me feeling like my pet is any stronger than when it isn't Unleashed.
  3. Untamed offers no new tools to keep our pets alive and our pets don't benefit from a lot of our traits. This kind of goes into my second point too. This doesn't feel like a pet empowering spec. 

Ultimately Unleashed really needs more to it than a flat damage buff. We need to get something out of switching Unleashed between the ranger and the pet too. Maybe when we move the primal energy from one target to another the recipient also gets a copy of the other's boons. So if the Ranger passes Unleashed to the pet the pet gets a copy of our boons and vice versa.

 

I see no reason the pet shouldn't also benefit from Restorative Strikes. I also feel like the pet's disabling effects should count for Fervent Force and the other Untamed traits associated with control. Cleansing Unleash should also be at least 2 conditions removed. That would put it more on-par with our other condition cleansing traits.

 

Utility wise Nature's Binding should probably count as a disable skill just for synergy with the Untamed's traitline. Exploding Spores could also do with a larger AoE per spore because right now unless the enemy is literally occupying the space of the ranger when you cast it you won't get the knockdown.

 

The elite should also give the pet the same bonuses so it can survive the same environments the ranger is trying to endure. Similarly the heal hurting the pet is actually anti-synergy with the spec and something I can't see any ranger using in its current form. 

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Hammer is slow, clunky, and weak, the F5 swap is unimpactful and both sides fail to perform as advertised, the pet is terrible now that it does nothing on its own and expects me to micro its skill use on top of everything else I am trying to juggle to get some results out of this mess.

 

It's just so, so bad. This is nothing, NOTHING like GW1 Thumper in terms of agility, power, and synergy. Thumper ran fast, hit fast, and just spammed out KDs and damage while the pet shredded with MASSIVE and unblockable attacks. Untamed does not do a single one of these.

 

Finally, the green aura is absolutely hideous and ruins the fashion that is the main  monetization of your game.

 

Honestly I would beg you to just scrap everything and start over from scratch - preferably led by someone who actually played Ranger in GW1 - but I know you won't. Maybe in 3 years it'll be not-terrible, but I doubt it will ever actually be good or actually properly invoke GW1 Thumper.

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I agree with most of what the others have said. I, however, only had a short period of time to muck about and by the time I get back the beta will be over. So for what it's worth...

Why have our pets pooed on us? I look like I'm covered in nasty poo. Please tame this. (All puns intended.) Also the colouring is very necro like. Dark green/black with a forest green. I feel like I'm a necro doppelganger. A slight change in colour and less of the poo slime would be great. 

Also the name. I'm untamed but I'm leashing and unleashing? Huh? I know this is minor and possibly silly but it still irritates. Please pick one or the other and stick with it. 

The lack of weapon synergy other than hammer is disappointing and I feel, turns this into a niche build.

There are all the other things previously mentioned (pets have same skills, our heal skill, lack of mobility etc...) but I think others have covered that better then I would.

Positives, I had a blast for the tiny amount of time I did have to play with her. Just straight up gleeful fun even with all the tuning she needs. I know that this is the test run and you guys will fix her right up by the release date. (Positive thinking here guys!) I'm looking forward to my first ever bunny thumper. 😄

 

Edited by mossmere.9503
fixed spacing
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Other weapons need to have unleashed skills. Hammer is fun but I don't want to be tied down to that weapon, especially since this spec seems to favor melee range pets. Untamed as it is now feels like there's going to be one "correct" build if you want to be successful with the spec, which is unfortunate because build diversity is one of the main draws of GW2 and certainly the reason I play it over other MMOs!

 

On that note, there doesn't really seem to be much of a reason to use the cantrips over other, similar things the core Ranger already does. The 6-10s are not unique enough to warrant being part of an elite spec.

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18 minutes ago, xunvyre.8301 said:

Other weapons need to have unleashed skills. Hammer is fun but I don't want to be tied down to that weapon, especially since this spec seems to favor melee range pets.

It's kinda confusing to me why this wasn't done. Untamed is the only spec in the game where the mechanic (unleash self) doesn't do anything if you don't use the weapon. Holos can always use the lightforge even if they don't have sword on, mech can always use golem even if mace isn't on, etc. The closest thing is Catalyst and the floaty ball, but even they can use the jade orb when not wearing hammer.

It keeps getting compared to holosmith sword, but sword does the exact same thing no matter what heat level you use it on. It just does extra things (more damage, more heat blades, more quickness) on top of the normal skill. Hammer is not like that, hammer's effects are completely different based on the state you're in.

I suppose traits do change, but in terms of actual mechanical gameplay changes, Untamed is unique in that aspect.

If power creep was the concern, then maybe Untamed should have been made similar to Bladesworn, and your weapon swap is removed in exchange for every weapon having two separate kits.

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I didn't test this one much, but I wanted to throw in a vote to have the visual effect of unleashed toned down or changed somehow when it's on the player. Given how much time people spend on fashion in this game it's a shame unleashed covers you in radioactive moss and overwrites it completely. I would also encourage more consideration of making this spec work with more weapons. The comparison that was used with holosmith doesn't really work because engineer only has 2 weapons to use aside from sword and has no weapon swap. I couldn't even really think of what I would use as a secondary set with this. If the goal is to have the bunny thumper disable and destroy play style maybe remove the bonus damage against disabled foes from the hammer skills and apply it to the unleashed state itself, having the pet do more damage when you're focusing on disabling and then letting you swap and get a few hits of bonus damage yourself. Even having one skill change on the other weapons could help, could make it skill 3 or 5, something with a longer cooldown that could give a slightly different effect while unleashed.

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I think i'd love hammer if it had one good set of skills.

Trying to twist it around to take advantage of quickness on enhancing impact by unleashing during the cast of hammer #5 feels like one more unintuitive, needlessly complicated mechanic. I get off one big attack and pretty much want the leashed spells back immediately.

My random suggestions for hammer fixes involve giving it one set of skills -

1 - last hit cripples

2 - the unleashed attack

3- the leashed daze. Make it a shortish distance charge, just give a bit of movement, something similar to scrapper hammer 3. Limiting it to 2 hits would keep the distance fairly reasonable no?

4. Unleashed heavy hitter

5. Leashed stun

Make unleash a stance swap. Bake enhancing impact trait into it.

 

Managing pets chews up a fair bit of focus, even more so when you have to spam 5 second cooldown, basic dps skills and have a pile of traits that encourage swapping pets and swapping weapons on cooldown. Not being able to take advantage of dps traits like opening strike resets when unleashed with hammer feels backwards. I'm not sure i'm really keen on throwing elemental stance weaving type mechanic into the mix for weapon skills.

Or maybe i should shut up and i'll get used to it and it'll provide me with years of entertainment when i figure it out. I dont know.

 

I like enhancing impact, its quite cool.

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Man, I don't even know where to start on this spec, all the others there was some ideas that I liked in with the ones I didn't that I could offer suggestions on. This one, I'm kind of drawing a blank, it feels so half baked in so many ways that I just don't know what this spec needs to be turned into something fun and compelling. I'll try and break it down though.

To start, the hammer, which seems to be the only consistent idea with this whole thing, is perfectly fine as a generic hammer, but it certainly isn't up to snuff  compared to the rest of the ranger's weapons. It has lots of CC and...an alternate mode that swaps all the CC for damage that also isn't that amazing. The idea seems to be to CC something with the regular hammer skills then swap to unleashed mode and hit them with the skills that do increased damage to disabled foes...but why not just have that combo in the hammer itself? Also to follow that up, where the hell is the weapon skill that empowers your pet? That's a staple of every ranger weapon sans druid staff, why does the spec that supposed to be about "unleashing" the pet's potential not have this?

Jumping off from that point, where's the pet synergy throughout the spec? Unleashed mode for pet just overwrites it's active skills with a one size fits all bundle that frankly aren't that amazing outside of the projectile blocking one. Where's the unleased mode buffs for pet damage? Why does soulbeast, the spec that actively gets rid of the pet, have more synergy with pets and beast mastery than this spec? And what's more despite the situational benefits of being able to micromanage when your pet uses its CC ability you are  now burdened with having to micromanage your pet's generic higher damage ability too. The fact that people are asking for the ability to set the newly available skills to auto-cast shows that this feature is not that much of a benefit as your pet is now objectively less potent as it's not using it's abilities on its own.  Beyond even that the "new" pet abilities have now bumped the engage and return command buttons off of being bindable and it is a bigger deal than I anticipated. I never realized how often I would set my pet after a target before engaging, nor how often I used the return command to pull a pet out of an AoE or away from enemies it aggroed. Not being able to quickly access these functions makes the pet feel notably less responsive. 

Anyways, moving along, the utility skill set with this spec is interesting at least. The condition removal one or the teleport should really be a stunbreak. The spores one is interesting and has ok damage but why on earth is the knockdown tied to being hit with all of the spores? It's so weird and specific and makes that aspect of the skill pointlessly difficult to make use of. The binding one is interesting but odd, if it can block teleportation then it has merit in pvp but other than that ranger has better CC options. The elite I think has potential, if the rest of the spec can be made better I could see it being usable. But that does leave the heal...and by Melandru's weeping boughs what the hell is this? A ranger heal that harms your pet? That's like a necro heal that drains life force or a thief heal that gives you revealed. It just actively works against the profession mechanic, it's absurd and certainly not worth the tradeoff in any situation.

Ok, that's enough ranting. I think I can summarize some points I'd like to see for this spec now.

1. Condense hammer into a single weapon set that can be more mobile while still inflicting and taking advantage of CC

2. Improve synergy with the pet across the board and restore the pet controls in some fashion.

3. Flesh out and focus the unleashed mode. This needs to be more than a toggling damage modifier, 3 pet skills and overriding a single weapon's skills is not good enough. I don't know what the answer is here but I do know this is not working on any level at the moment. 

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3 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

The Unleashed Mechanic is currently underwhelming and limiting

(All feedback here is for PvE)

1)  The complete lack of the Unleashed mechanic interaction with other weapons is disappointing and vastly limits Untamed potential.  Frankly, the Unleashed mechanic feels completely unfinished and like it doesn't even exist when merged with the ranger itself.  15% extra damage while Unleashed?  No, "getting 15% more damage while unleashed" does NOT count as an interesting profession mechanic.  I can literally get that from just having Fury while taking Soulbeast with 0 downsides...  I HARD disagree with  @Cal Cohen.2358's assertion in the last Guild Chat that it would be too much power creep to add some sort of interaction with other weapons.  The modifiers within the Untamed traitline are not even close to Soulbeast's level of interaction with both itself AND beastmastery AND Utility skills.  Let that sink in one more time, Soulbeast's Beast Mode literally interacts with an entirely different traitline and utility skills to provide itself additional buffs/effectsIt can literally gets a 40% damage modifier from Sic Em!  The unfortunate thing is, that Ranger NEEDS these huge bonuses to be able to even compete as a Power DPS class.  NO ONE wants their class to be completely left behind when compared with other classes, but Power DPS on Core Ranger was neglected before Soulbeast and now it shows on Untamed.  I think this is what really gets me about this is that Unleashed mode and Untamed do nothing to push the envelope of Core Power Ranger damage (which is, quite honestly, pathetic in relation to other classes) and the excuse of "too much power creep" just completely ignores how extremely lacking Core Power Ranger (and thus by extension Untamed) is.  Also the effectively -25% loss of damage outside of Unleashed is completely insulting which brings me to my next point.

2)  Vow of the Untamed - Leaving Unleashed SHOULD NOT reduce your damage by an additional -10% since you're already  losing the 15% Unleashed buff.  Just revert it back to "leashed" damage after.  Take away the -10% damage loss part of the trait and just leave it as a 10% damage reduction while outside of Unleashed or just remove that part entirely if it's too much of a buff with no downside.  Also the 15% increase in incoming damage is already a big enough downside as it is, no need to punish the spec even further by not being constantly Unleashed. 

3)  The Spec is just missing damage in PvE.  Not enough modifiers to compete with Soulbeast at all and Soulbeast is starting to struggle to compete with other profession's damage specs as it is.   Core Ranger is terrible for power damage and the elites need to fix those issues, or Core Ranger needs to get adequate buffs somehow to support the elites better (this is obviously the worse of the two options).  Untamed doesn't need to be Best in Slot, but should absolutely be able to do AT LEAST Power Reaper levels of damage.  Several of the Untamed traits are extremely lackluster, so more modifiers or damage (or even good pet buffs that provide a substantial damage increase for the pet) should be added to those places instead. 

How to start to fix

1) Add Unleashed Interaction in some form with ALL Core Weapons

2) Remove 10% damage loss outside of Unleashed; you already lose 15% by not being Unleashed

3) Add an additional damage modifier or two somewhere to give Untamed more competitive damage

I agree with this. The unleashed mechanic is probably the worst profession mechanic in the game and the spec is just way too weak at the moment. So very disappointed 

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28 minutes ago, HeyHeyHey.9453 said:

I agree with this. The unleashed mechanic is probably the worst profession mechanic in the game and the spec is just way too weak at the moment. So very disappointed 

I also totally agree with this. Since it is supposed to be a spec centered around your pet, give the pet more damage. Like a lot more damage. And make it benefit from our own stats like the mechas golem. Maybe then this will actually be decent

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its a shame because the give+take of unleashed weapon skills has so much potential to reinvigorate core weapons; like remove the rooting and projectile reflect of whirling defense but letting you move during it which then gives you an engaging gameplay choice of which you use for what scenario

Edited by Linguistically Inept.6583
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3 hours ago, Eric.7813 said:

Unleashed pet skills based on animal archetype 

I believe the three unleashed pet skills need to be different based on the pet archetype, as was with the SoulBeast.  This will provide some diversity in build-craft with this elite spec based on pet selection.  This will mitigate the need to provide unleashed versions of the core ranger weapons.

Yea, I came here to suggest exactly that.

Pet-specific skills would be a ton of work for every single one, but archetypes already exist which could simplify it a bit.

Having all pets be the same while unleashed cheapens our pet choices.

 

Other thing I came here to suggest is the ability to toggle automatic usage on the pet's skills. Many of them are just "do a little more damage" skills and I don't want to micromanage those ones for such marginal benefit. My pet is smart, let him do it. I only want to manually control strong ones like moa's harmonic cry.

Edited by magic fly.2041
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17 minutes ago, magic fly.2041 said:

Other thing I came here to suggest is the ability to toggle automatic usage on the pet's skills. Many of them are just "do a little more damage" skills and I don't want to micromanage those ones for such marginal benefit. My pet is smart, let him do it. I only want to manually control strong ones like moa's harmonic cry.

Yes, they really need to re-work some of the core ranger pet skills for use in this elite spec.

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I wonder if we shouldn't just lose the '1' pet skill in exchange for getting 'attack my target' back? As the '1' skill always seems to be a low impact skill that would nearly always be set to auto-cast anyway.  

So for E. Wyvern off the top of my head, Tail lash would be the skill that control is removed from, and we keep control over wing buffet and of course the F2 (Lighting Assault).  

Of course, this does mess up pets with useful '1' skills--like Smokescale's Takedown.  

It's also probably too much work to code something where we can slot out control over skills for the 'attack my target' functionality (treat them like utility slots).  So for E. Wyvern I'd slot out Tail Lash, and Smokescale would slot out Smoke Assault (because IMO, it auto-teleporting is way better than me trying to micro that).  

I dunno, but I wholeheartedly agree that micro'ing the pet to this level is a bad idea when most of the skills aren't useful to selectively trigger.  It also obviously cost us the ability to bind attack and return....which is very bad.  

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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unleashed character shroud animation needs to go

Please stop with the ugly green character shrouds, just disable it. Nobody likes it. It doesn’t look good. 
 

I pay for the outfits! Let me enjoy them without your fart shrouds!  (You knew this was an issue since soul beast) 
 

Pet abilities when unleashed

pets should maintain their AI controlled abilities when they are unleashed. Not wait around passively. 
 

Buff unleashed pets

Unleashed pets should have a damage buff. Ranger loses the 15% buff, and is reduced an additional 10%???? And no buff to the pet when it’s unleashed?? That’s strange.

 

Per archetypes

unleashed pet skills should be unique per pet archetype. There is zero build diversity with the Untamed. (Which should synergize with the pet)
 

disable weapon swap

yep, it feels so suck to accidentally swap off hammer only to realize it’s gg since the core ranger weapons are incompatible with the untamed.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

The heavy gas swamp green theme of this elite spec is really off-putting. This alone makes the entire spec undesired less to play.

Yes. They need to disable it. 
this alone might set me over the edge after my 8 years playing ranger. I buy outfits from the gem store just to have fart steam stain them

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Core Pet Problems

This isn't new information for the most part, but I thought I would preface with it since the elite spec is heavily dependent on the pet. Bear in mind I chose specifically the pets that DON'T have issues with Quickness.

I spawned a basic golem and set it to mobile. Even with the 25% move speed signet and Beast Mastery traitline, the pets all struggled to even land a basic hit on the thing. I can't remember all tested, but Jacaranda literally could not land an attack that way. I think Smokescale and Ranged pets had better luck. 

The Pet Unleashed F1 would mostly work in these scenarios, but they would often stop moving as soon as they arrived, so the only hit that they delivered would be from the teleport, and even that was a maybe if they were too far. The stop after the F1 meant that if I used the F2 immediately after, the enemy would already be out of range. Once again, this is all on a regular movement, small golem.

 

The Untamed has a lot of abilities that specifically trigger on disabled enemies by design, but the pet as it currently stands can't even hurt things if they're not already immobile. As it stands, I don't think that's an issue that can be fixed with the numbers. Pets need to be able to hit things on the move without being a Smokescale or Ranged. The new Unleashed abilities for them have Slow and Chill but only if they're disabled. I don't mind working in tandem with my pet and covering each other's weaknesses, but my pet should not be so fundamentally useless.

Honestly they should just be coded at this point to work like Revenant's spinning hammers and not even bother autoattacking. 

Trait Problems

First, a lot of old pet based traits are nerfed purely from Unleashed Pet not having any Beast abilities. I imagine this is oversight, or hope it is.

I'm really not trying to be mean, but the new traits are a mess. The Vitality minor one is ridiculous. It was a kitten one on Herald, but at least that one is percent based so you can kitten around with massive vitality stacking if you wanted to. I will at least give it credit for actually synergizing with another trait (Taste for Danger). 

The minor traits usually don't bother me, however, since they're not a choice. The mess is in the others. The ones that trigger off Disable are potentially cool, but they screw up in execution. Your pets don't trigger them, which is fine IMO for the Grandmaster Trait, but not the first two. With a Hammer as unleashed, you only have three non-pet methods of disable (four with some racials), and they're all super clunky to pull off (Trap, Spores, Storm Spirit). Getting 3 seconds of Quickness and 5 stacks of Vuln is a pretty kitten trade off for all of that investment. The Unleashed pet ones, by comparison, are effectively useless since they'll only last for a second or so by the time the disabled enemy can react again. The Grandmaster Trait was a knockout, however. I had a blast with that, my only gripe being it encouraged me to use any weapon EXCEPT hammer. 

The Adept/Master Unleashed traits are just underwhelming to the point that I probably wouldn't use them even if they were merged into one. Compare that to the pet swap talents and then factor in that you actually want to change pets frequently, and they become that much worse. Passing Unleashed should either be a tactical decision or a rotational decision and the weak effects of both of them don't do enough to make me even notice them. The bottom row Adept/Master traits seem OK, but they don't do anything half of the time. Further add to the Adept one that if you're applying it to a disabled enemy, the Blind has a good chance of wearing off before they even get back up.

The Grandmaster traits are a bit of a mixed bag. The disable one I'll get to in the next bit, the lifesteal one is OK but bland. It's comparable to Parasitic Contagion, which is a good talent to have when needed. The 15% damage boost is insulting at the GM trait spot. It's underwhelming and uninspired. Herald's Forceful Persistence is similar, but it at least interacts with the Herald's kit. This is just a flat boost that you have to (albeit quickly) build up with regular attacks. 

Disable Problems

Disabling as a spec that focuses on disabling has been a tough task and isn't nearly as rewarding as it should be. Unleashed Pet + Hammer seems to work as intended, even if it's pretty weak. Unleashed Ranger + Hammer is a kittening mess. My hammer skills have no capability to disable when I'm unleashed and my pet may or may not have an ability that they may or may not land. On top of that, my pet's disable doesn't even trigger my traits, so that's useless. I have three utility skills that can disable, maybe four with racials, and none of them are reliable. Switching to another weapon is literally the best case here for keeping an enemy disabled, so why would I use the hammer? It feels like there was the intention of you CCing and then quickly switching to Unleashed, but that doesn't really play out in execution.

Elite Skills

Nothing really felt good here if you weren't using your new elite. Entangle has way too many issues to be used effectively and Strength of the Pack's cast time feels super clunky in 2021 and does kitten all in organized PVE/WVW. I was truly considering Avatar of Grenth on the condi builds because at least it does something reliably and the cooldown is mitigated by the disables.

What I had fun with

While I don't think the spec achieved what it was supposed to, I did have some fun goofing around with some of the disable builds. Condi trap spamming with a hammer and shortbow was a lot of fun on the golem. I managed to do some OK dps by spamming all CC's + Sharpening Stone + Quick Draw Axe/Dagger + Shortbow.

Edited by WalrusTusK.2478
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My thoughts on Untamed :

 

- A lot (and I cannot stress this enough) of micromanagement to accomplish what feels more natural with Core/Druid/Animorph specs. You get weapon swap, the F5, the pet swap with both 3 skills, plus the unleashed versions of it providing 3 more skills. That's a total of 9 skills on pet to micromanage in addition to your own weapons, utilities and unleash mechanic. It's quite tedious to play (especially after having played the Mechanist...........)

- Hammer is nice and benefits from quickness greatly, but the lack of CC on the unleashed version is hurtful. Greatsword feels almost better in every way even though it doesn't provide an unleashed version of its skills.

- Speaking of which, I don't really see the point of being unleashed for yourself. Sure, you get the 3 pet skills for each pet and get a side effect if you choose to trait into it, but that's just on the activation. After that, no damage buff whatsoever remains on you, which makes me feel not "unleashed" at all.

- The utility skills are okayish in general but some need tweaking (heal isn't great because you hurt your pet and Heal as One is better in every option with this spec), the teleport lacks some more bang, as the condi removal. The elite, on the other hand, feels great and game changing, as elite skills should feel.

 

All in all, it seems fun to play, it's nice to have the pets a bit stronger (more hp is always good in this spec) but it feels like a chore to play around with due to all the micromanagement between all the swaps.

Edited by Neva Eilhart.5347
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3 hours ago, Turalyon.5360 said:

I also totally agree with this. Since it is supposed to be a spec centered around your pet, give the pet more damage. Like a lot more damage. And make it benefit from our own stats like the mechas golem. Maybe then this will actually be decent

Can I just point out that at no point (that I have seen, and I am happy to be corrected) have ANet pointed out that this eSpec is made to be centered around the pet.

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11 hours ago, Rinaldhi.9826 said:

Observations on the Untamed. Testing this on PVP Golems

1. 2 handed-training is not granting Fury on disable - Now Working

2. Opening strike is not gained on fury for remorseless. - Now Working

3. Remains in-combat even after disengaging - Intermittent Issue

4. On the controls there is a key bind option for Ranger Pet Combat Toggle. Can we have at least a Return to me key bind at least if we cannot have the normal attack like core ranger/druid/soulbeasts have?

 

5. Beastly Warden (Taunt) is not triggering on unleashed pet.

 

 

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