Specter Feedback Thread

[Asum.4960]

32 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

No, this is not how it works at all. 30k is only underperforming for a DPS focused build but if it does anything else on top of it (like really good CC and AoE damage) than 30 would not nessesarly be underperforming. That you should be able to expect higher numbers for the specter because it's still so single target focused is something the devs even said it during their reveal stream.

??? just proclaiming it to be "good to fantastic" without even bothering to actually make an argument as for why does nothing to further your point.

Ofc. you don't because you are, for some reason, hellbent to ignore the bigger picture and only focus on single target numbers which resulted from something you already correctly identified as completely unrealistic.

I'm talking about purely DPS builds though. So yes, that's how it is for DPS builds. 

The higher numbers they talked about for the Specter in the stream were concerning the support in terms of single target ally targeting, which should, and are, higher than general AoE Support numbers.

 

Specter completely solo self buffed (as in running around in OW and such) does around ~18k DPS (already, from just limited early testing, but which already is comparative to anything but the absolute best solo builds/specs like Renegade), benefits significantly from self heal Tormenting Runes for sustain, and can full heal+barrier itself every ~8 seconds with Consume Shadows, while spamming out debilitating conditions (slow+chill) with general good solo Breakbar potential baseline in the kit. 

It's capable of comfortably soloing most to all HP's, Fractals, what have you. That makes it a good solo spec.

 

As for your last point, I don't even know what you are talking about anymore. These benchmark builds are for group content such as Raids, Fractals and Strikes - aka revolving overwhelmingly around single target DPS, where Specter way overperforms currently in the Beta.

What I called unrealistic is things like taking huge hitbox numbers or golem benchmark numbers where you never get hit back from builds requiring 100% Aegis uptime, which you won't have in any real fight, and ignorantly taking those as DPS standard. 

Largely single target DPS does not fall under that category for the content these builds and benchmarks are relevant for.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Every day pon.5386]

In WvW I enjoyed: high party barrier & cross-party single target support. Breaking the shade bar seemed more useful than using any shade ability. Torment sharing also helped receive loot bags as a support role.

 

I don't understand why the shade bar does not decay or that every Specter ability 'Blinks', those seem excessive & could be better with 1 Specter Stunbreak after decreasing Blink count. Some Specter Wells also feel greatly superior to Chronomancer Wells.

[Every day pon.5386]

12 hours ago, flowdragon.8635 said:

Shroud 3 is a good concept, but it needs a sort of elastic targeting system because otherwise you have to back up (usually for me with a dodge roll) just to land the end of the charge on the target. If you could make the targeting stretch from the player up to a certain point so we could target an enemy that was closer, it would be much more effective and efficient for playing.

Yes! 'Specter' 3 should never break target upon direction because of its support role benefiting ontop of friends; Specter hugs allies due to piercing attack mechanics, so the target should never be breaking upon direction.

Edit: I get that the direction is to channel barriers forward, but breaking a channel is a worse outcome than barrier sharing backwards, IMO. If it could be favored forward that would be ideal.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Every day pon.5386

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

6 hours ago, Androx.8572 said:

Deadeye for the win . Refund Please.

I am very unsatisfied with the fact they used Thief’s third elite slot for support. 

This is not what everyone wanted

There are classes already made for those scenarios.

And the result is when you try to force some weird profile into an assassin themed character , it under performs as support because Thief is not originally a support class. 
 

Did Devs played this Specter Spec with their friends at work on PvE , sPvP or WvW ? 
If you did , then you realize this Spec might kinda work well playing with someone else , but in reality we are not accompanied the whole time in game , so if you are alone , what will you do? Support yourself so you can kill that veteran hydra or else? Oh wait the damage falls short…

 

 

this sounds a bit harsh but it is acutally my biggest concern also.

 

- is Specter a good elite specialization numberwise? Sure, it is!

- is Specter a fun espec to play? For some players this is exactly what they wanted so again: Sure, it is!

- is Specter bringing something new and interessting to the table? Sure, it is!

- is Specter going to be a standardrole for raid groups, sPvP etc.? Yeah, the potential is certainly there!

 

But 

- is Specter an elite specialization that fits the general theme (or my personal favorite term "identity")? No, definitely not!

- is Specter an elite specialization that is fun for solo players (as Thief is not a typical groupplay profession)? No, definitely not!

- is Specter the best way to introduce a support or even a heal spec to Thief that feel fitting? No, definitly not! 

 

And in my opinion these points should matter more than having a viable build for group content on thief.
It also should be more important, than giving a generally unwanted or even hated profession like another job.

 

You have to take into account or to consider that there are players that prefer to not have many characters but only play one, and that they chose a profession because of the general playstyle it has to offer.
Of course this is no issue for those who play like (almost) every profession and are switching here and there. min/maxing for the forthcoming content they are going to play the next hours and so on. But they would also play Specter if it was the elite spec of necro or guardian (both profession would fit this more in my opinion) if it is the best way to play the desired content.

 

I played Specter during this beta and reported some bugs, gave my initial feedback on the stuff that jumped my mind but in the end even if i was eager to experiment with it i lost any connection to the profession it should represent and with it i lost fun and interest in it.

I was really hyped for Scepter on the Thief, like finally getting more magicbased variants, AoE weapondamage options, shadow form was like a freebie, maybe changing how stealth works because it is so controversial. I feel like there is so much potential unused and most ideas here on the forum for like the last months would all be more thief-like than the Specter.

 

TL:DR - Specter is cool, got a lot of potential and i am sure it will be good in the end numberwise but it isn't connected to Thief in any way, and the little sidestory about Panaku to reasoning this is too farfetched.

[Yid.3024]

Overall I liked it, I desperately want to like it more, but most of the time I'm fighting the targeting controls more than I'm fighting the enemies.

It almost felt like it was designed for a different game. I love that they are introducing an entirely new way to play, but the game first needs to make room for that entirely new element.

 

No character or build I have played so far requires you to rapidly and accurately change targets between enemies and allies, or between different allies. It's simply a playstyle the game does not make any effort to support. I don't usually have much trouble getting targets if it was only among enemies, because the game actually supports quickly and easily selecting enemy targets. On Specter, countless times I have targeted on an enemy instead of an ally, an ally instead of an enemy, a full-health ally instead of the one I'm trying to heal, a gosh-darn MINI, etc.. L2P issue? Perhaps. But acquiring AND changing between the right targets in a stacked mess of clipping character models and particle effects and minis and pets have never been this big of an issue since no other spec requires this type of play, and the game's been built for years around that fact.

 

Again, I REALLY want to love this spec more. The idea of a high-impact selective support is cool. Support character with tools like shadowstep and stealth is cool. The theme of shadow magic specialist is cool. The traits are interesting. But it also has to work within the game we have. Hopefully the game's bones get some serious uplift to support this unique idea.

[Curennos.9307]

3 hours ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

 

this sounds a bit harsh but it is acutally my biggest concern also.

 

- is Specter a good elite specialization numberwise? Sure, it is!

- is Specter a fun espec to play? For some players this is exactly what they wanted so again: Sure, it is!

- is Specter bringing something new and interessting to the table? Sure, it is!

- is Specter going to be a standardrole for raid groups, sPvP etc.? Yeah, the potential is certainly there!

 

But 

- is Specter an elite specialization that fits the general theme (or my personal favorite term "identity")? No, definitely not!

- is Specter an elite specialization that is fun for solo players (as Thief is not a typical groupplay profession)? No, definitely not!

- is Specter the best way to introduce a support or even a heal spec to Thief that feel fitting? No, definitly not! 

 

And in my opinion these points should matter more than having a viable build for group content on thief.
It also should be more important, than giving a generally unwanted or even hated profession like another job.

 

You have to take into account or to consider that there are players that prefer to not have many characters but only play one, and that they chose a profession because of the general playstyle it has to offer.
Of course this is no issue for those who play like (almost) every profession and are switching here and there. min/maxing for the forthcoming content they are going to play the next hours and so on. But they would also play Specter if it was the elite spec of necro or guardian (both profession would fit this more in my opinion) if it is the best way to play the desired content.

 

I played Specter during this beta and reported some bugs, gave my initial feedback on the stuff that jumped my mind but in the end even if i was eager to experiment with it i lost any connection to the profession it should represent and with it i lost fun and interest in it.

I was really hyped for Scepter on the Thief, like finally getting more magicbased variants, AoE weapondamage options, shadow form was like a freebie, maybe changing how stealth works because it is so controversial. I feel like there is so much potential unused and most ideas here on the forum for like the last months would all be more thief-like than the Specter.

 

TL:DR - Specter is cool, got a lot of potential and i am sure it will be good in the end numberwise but it isn't connected to Thief in any way, and the little sidestory about Panaku to reasoning this is too farfetched.

Specter definitely fits into the general theme. I mean...it can't *not*, since it's already made. It uses initiative, has stealth, has stuff tie into stealth (I particularly like the ability to use my stealth attack as a heal). I also had a great time on spectre solo - it's basically exactly what I wanted next for thief. 

 

I definitely don't want spectre to be turned into a typical support spec. I realize that my preferences aren't the same as everyone else's (and, hopefully that is true vice versa), but I think spectre fits in very nicely with thief's theme. Thief is generally single target, stealthy, squishy outside of evades, stealth, and mobility. Spectre is...generally single target, stealthy, and generally squishy outside of evades, stealth, and mobility - with the exception of the shroud-like mechanic that I will absolutely agree is a bit out of place. If that's what you were getting at, then definitely. Otherwise, I don't.

 

And, honestly, I can totally understand why they went the temporary health route. It gives thief durability needed to function in its intended job without forcing total reliance on mechanics the community has shown a lot of hate for over the years (aka stealth). That said, I def would have preferred something more along the lines of, thief generates a resource and hitting the thief splits damage between the resource and thief's health bar. That way, it could punish players for mistakes, bad positioning, etc, and provide some 'good thieves will be good pvp supports because they avoid more dmg and thus can provide more support'. Of course, I can understand why they didn't do this either, but still.

 

Furthermore, I think it's important to consider what OTHER classes do, too. Personally, I would completely lose interest if spectre turned out to be another support in the same vein as every other support - AoE flying all over the place, etc. Boring. Thief has never really had the same AoE potential as other classes, and I think it's perfectly fine to take the features and limitations of its damage kit and attempt to use them to create a unique flavor of support ability.

 

Also - do adjustments need to be made? Definitely. Does some fiddling need to be done to ensure targetting is a smoother experience and ppl aren't wrestling with controls more than they are their enemies? Of course. But I think you're way off base if you think it doesn't match thief's theme/identity.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Introduction

I hereby present my feedback on the Specter elite spec for the Thief class. I will divide my feedback into several sections and will try to look at things from mainly a PvE perspective.

I saved writing about the Specter for last because it felt like the most complex class to me from this BETA. It comes with a lot of new things, including the option to target allies with attacks (something that seems to split the community), and it took quite a bit of time to get at least a bit of a grasp on it all.

Short version: Potential good, condi and support potentially strong, Consume Shadows/Dark Sentry/Endless Night massively overperforming, Shroud felt underperforming to me.  

Long version: please read on!

Possible issue with the theme: 

I still need some time to get used to this idea. A condition damage thief with boon&heal support and a shroud that actually looks better on paper than some necro shrouds? That’s a departure from what I personally thought the thief was, but I can see the reasoning behind the spec. It is growing on me! However, something that I feel is a bit confused is how many targets this spec is supposed to support. Many traits and the wells are 5 man, and suddenly scepter and the Shadow Shroud tether is 1 man only but with some Scepter and Shroud  attacks being 3 man. It is going to feel very inconsistent when there is such a difference between skills when it comes to how many targets they are able to affect.

 

Possible issue with the mechanic(s):

Being able to target either foes or allies with attacks for different effects:

This is a daring approach and the first of its kind. Never before have we been able to specifically target allies with attacks ( it was always just an AoE effect), and never have these attacks had different effects depending on if we hit an ally or a foe. It’s interesting, but also potentially very clunky, considering the massive amount of effects and movement in Guild Wars 2. Unless we can target allies directly in the UI this part of the Specter spec will be prone to mis clicks and mis fires. Being able to only hit a limited amount of allies (1-3) doesnt help either.

 

You are really going to want to turn the “Always show Party health Bars, Always show Squad health Bars, Thick Party Healthbars and Thick Squad Healthbars” options in the F11 menu or you are going to have a bad time targeting allies. You are probably also going to want to make sure that you have keybinds for both “Target Nearest Ally” and “Target Next Ally” bound. And even then I think you are missing keys to make this spec shine. When damage happens you want to be able to react directly, and not having to look for who got damaged, select them, and then press a heal skill. This is the reason the non-targeted AoE healing in this game works. You see damage, you drop an AoE heal and it works because everyone is stacked. The UI will need a lot of improvements, including new keybinds (target lowest health ally/automatically target damaged ally/the ability to make keybinds for targeting specific squadmembers maybe?), because else this spec risks becoming a fight with the UI instead of a fight with whatever your group is fighting.

That said, I appreciate the idea and overall I think I am more positive than negative about it, even with the issues it brings with it.

 

Siphon (New Steal):

Siphon is okay I suppose. Just okay, not revolutionary. Pretty low cooldown, applies some conditions, and provides resources to use Shadow Shroud. I am kinda neutral to it, but at least it is better than the afterthought that is the Daredevil steal. Something that still needs some fixing is that at times Siphon will fail to activate with a no valid path to target message, probably a left-over from the normal steal code, and some traits do not activate when targeting allies.

 

Proposal:
Fix the weird pathing bugs this skill has from time to time, and make traits that used to proc on siphoning from an enemy als proc when siphoning from an ally.

 

Shadow Shroud & Shadow Force:
Giving Thief another resource aside from initiative (and the trade-off of having less initiative) is very interesting and could lead to new ways to play the class, which is good. The problem is that right now in PvE the shroud is not as interesting as it could be, which is mainly because of what I consider to be the Holy Overperforming Trinity (HOT) of the Specter: Dark Sentry, Endless Night and Consume Shadows. You will inflict more torment out of shroud than inside of it, and your barriers and heals to a group will also almost always be bigger by quickly jumping in and out of shroud, but rarely by staying in it. Some of the power of the HOT could perhaps be redistributed to the Shroud, and then I am mainly looking at torment application and increased target caps.

 

Thoughts about the Shroud in general:
Generally, I think Specter got a better shroud than Harbinger. That said, on Harbinger you will actually use the shroud, which you most likely won’t when playing the Specter, and that is a shame, I would have liked some gameplay where the Specter wants to camp its shroud, instead of just quickly flashing in and out of it to proc Consume Shadows or Quick Pockets ( yes, it works with the shroud!).

The support part of shroud should be enticing enough to use in a playing field where both Consume Shadows and Endless Night exist. I am not sure how to achieve that, but I think increasing the amount of targets you can support or tether to in PvE might help.

 

I really don’t think the ‘protect a single target’ nature will not function in PvE where our supports spam AoE heals for 5-10 targets at once. Should Anet want to see shroud healing be a thing, the supportive half needs to be able to hit more than just a single target with its supportive effects, this goes for pretty much the entire kit. This means that Haunt shot’s healing and might should affect 5 targets, same for the heal and condition cleansing from Grasping Shadows, the healing and barrier from Dawns Repose, and the healing and stability from Endless Night and Mind Shock. The damage part of the shroud already hits 5 targets, I see no reason why the support part couldnt do the same. Rebalance the values if needed, makes it less effective the more allies you hit with it if you really wish to promote that single target support play.

To make the shroud more interesting to camp for condi builds, it simply needs to apply more condi’s.
Perhaps a trait that makes Shroud skills give the Specter stacks of Rot Wallow Venom based on targets struck with Shroud skills?

Possible issue with specific Shroud skills:

 

Haunt Shot:  
Mainly a condi attack attack. Basic, you will rarely use it. Could perhaps use some more torment.

 

Grasping Shadows:
More torment and a blast finisher. Mostly solid, one of the few skills that I found myself at times use before exiting the shroud.

 

Dawn's Repose:
This could be strong in support builds with healing and barrier consume. Fear is not that much of CC, but CC is always welcome and is something that belongs in a shroud. It would be great however if instead of dashing away I could just ground target where I want go, this would do wonders for both the mobility and for being able to land the fear.

 

Proposal:
Consider making this skill ground targeted.

 

Eternal Night:
Sometimes I use this on top of shroud 2 if my initiative is still low. I got the feeling that this skill for whatever reason was not affected by quickness, making it awkward to execute.

 

Proposal:
Double check this skill’s coding to make sure quickness affects it.

 

Mind Shock:  
Why do I cast this, only for the actual skill to have a significant delay after on both the stun and the stability? When I use this I want that stun and stability straight away, not after a delay!

 

Proposal: 
Shorten this so the cast-time and the two effects line up with each other. No delays please!

 

Possible issue with the artwork of skills and traits:  
Who made the well utility icons? They feel completely out of place to me, no thief vibe at all. The well icons are in a league of their own when it comes to missing the mark, only the harbinger utility

 

Proposal:
Do another pass over the Well Icons and the details of the trait designs before EoD launches.

 

Possible issue with the Scepter skills:  

 

Shadow/Double/Triple -Bolt:
Basic attack chain that rewards finishing it. It was relatively easy to dump barrier on someone, but I am unsure how often we are going to spend time auto-attacking things, considering how thief rotations thanks to initiative always boil down to finding out what the best attack is and proceeding to spam it until you are out of initiative. But hey, perhaps it’s good as an emergency barrier slap when you are out of both initiative and shadowforce, who knows.

 

Shadow Squall (stealth attack):  
It seems like you can fire a decent load of conditions with it, but considering Endless Night exists I don’t think we are ever going to fire this off reliably. Then again, the entire channel is still over 4k plus regeneration worth of healing, perhaps someone will think off a wacky stealth healer build somewhere in the PvP scene.

 

Shadow Sap:
Does not really seem to be worth using on allies, and I am not sure how much the weakness is going to do. The might has a decent duration, but it’s only single target.

 

Proposal:
 It would be great if the might from this attack could hit multiple targets. Perhaps it can become an AoE around the target/targeted AoE of sorts?

Twilight Combo (dagger offhand):  
This gets completely outclassed by Measured shot into Endless Night from the Pistol offhand with the exception of its initiative cost. Endless provides better condi DPS and better barrier, I see no reason to ever use this in PvE.

 

Proposal:
Consider giving this attack a different effect so it no longer gets outclassed by the Scepter/Pistol combo in every possible way. Maybe remove some of the torment and interaction with Rot Wallow Venom from Dark Sentry away from Endless Night, and put it on this skill.

 

Measured Shot(pistol offhand):  
The shadowstep seems to trigger the Shadow Saviour trait for another heal, but only affecting a single target hurts a bit. The enemy attack version does not seem to be worth it, at least not on its own (you will probably only use this to get access to Endless Night anyway). I strongly dislike these forced movement skills where you have no idea where the hell it is going to place you. I already disliked it on the pistol/dagger condi thief, and I dislike it on scepter/pistol just as much.

 

Proposal: 
Is the forced teleport really necessary?

 

Endless Night(pistol offhand follow-up/chain):  
This is an amazing attack. In condi builds it can apply a load of torment, while in support it builds a lot of barrier and quickness. Only 3 targets limits its use a bit (albeit you can move around to hit multiple people), but it will be hard to balance this one, there is simply so much it brings to the table with a single attack.

A little too much, considering the extreme synergy this has with Rot Wallow Venom from Dark Sentry. The interaction with that trait means condi DPS Specters prefer to hit allies instead of foes with Endless Night (which you want to spam). You want to do nothing else but spam Endless Night as much as possible, it outclasses every other thing you could possibly do with anything else. Condi DPS? Spam Endless Night on allies and you will apply more torment than if you attacked yourself. Barrier? Spam Endless Night on allies, even a condi DPS build can easily dump over 4.5k worth of barrier with each Endless Night use. And then you also give a generous amount of quickness. It’s too much.

 

Proposal: 
I think the quickness should stay, it’s an interesting way to apply it (the applying beam could perhaps be a bit bigger, now at times you miss people with it/people walk out by accident). The barrier application should probably be lowered, and something needs to be done about the interaction with Rot Wallow Venom from the Dark Sentry trait. Make it so it gives no stacks or at least less of them when using Endless Night, so attacking an enemy is better for DPS than targeting allies. Perhaps move some of the Rot Wallow Venom interaction over to Twilight Combo, so you have a better choice between Condi DPS and Support, but not one skill that does both and does it better than everything else.

 

Possible issues with the roles this spec can fill in PvE:

 

Condi DPS Specter

This is a very hard role to pin down, because of how the Rot Wallow Venom is overperforming when there are any allies present to spam Endless Night on. This may lead to situations where the DPS is absolutely broken in groups, but slightly disappointing when playing solo. There are benchmarks (with allies to proc the venom) floating around of 52k damage, so obviously condi DPS Specter will be a thing. The real question is: How much of that damage is going to remain when Endless Night and Dark Sentry get a nerf (and how realistic is that benchmark)? If anything I would see the solo condi DPS potential to become higher ( the last solo benchmark I saw was around 36k), and the group potential lowered. Whatever is going to happen to do this role before launch, it will 100% be a thing and completely viable.

 

Support/Heal Specter
Support Specter will also be a thing, that is for sure. It gives Alacrity, it can heal extremely well, it can give out massive amounts of barrier, it can buff DPS by giving out Rot Wallow Venom, and then it is also capable of giving (low man)quickness, swiftness, vigor, and fury.

 

But the problem Specter has is that it cannot cover alacrity for 10 man, meaning in raids people will still bring Renegade. Your barrier application has the same problem, where the biggest barriers you can apply are 5 man (theoretically some more if you hit different people with Endless Night, but it will become hard to maintain), meaning you have trouble competing with Scourges for hard-carry purposes. In essence Support Specter has the same problems in this regard as Support Mechanist does. And it effectively needs the same solution when it comes to raid viability: Either Specter needs to be able to hit 10 man with their crucial things, or current supports need to be toned down to 5 targets max.  

 

We will probably see the Specter in 5 man content like fractals in all cases, but if people want to see support Specter in raids something needs to be done.

 

As for shroud and support Specter: The mostly single target nature of Shroud for its buffs is lackluster in PvE, but if you just flash in and out of it to proc Consume Shadows this will not hinder you in any way.  I would love to see both condi and support get reasons to camp shroud at times, but for now it is what it is.

 

Possible issues with the Well utility skills:

For wells in general I still have some doubts about the forced teleport mechanic. On one hand it provides insane mobility and automatic synergy with Shadow Saviour, on the other hand you might end up in situations where you want to use a well but NOT teleport over (because there is something at the location that you want to avoid).  Perhaps wells could get a teleport flip-over after use instead of a forced teleport? I am not sure what I prefer here, so I am interested in what the overall feedback about this part of the wells is going to be. What I do like is how the wells are dark fields, that feels very appropriate from a thematic point of view (albeit I think one of them being a smokefield also could have worked).

 

Well of Gloom:  
Seems fine for healer/alacrity variants, condi DPS builds may prefer other heals that focus less on allies and more on cleansing themselves (or at least not potentially teleporting them somewhere they do not want to be).

 

Well of Bounty:   
Mainly alacrity healer bait, the boon part of this well is a bit clunky, since you have no true control over the boons given out. Giving it some AoE stability might be cool but hey, free boons are free boons.

 

Well of Tears:  
A healer/condi oriented spec that gets a power-based well?  What was the idea behind this? If Power Specter won’t be a thing this may mainly be Alacrity well bait. Would it be a lot to ask if this well removes conditions from allies inside of it? Tears cleansing you? Specter is missing a way to effectively get rid of conditions.

 

Proposal:
Can the tears burn by adding weakness/chill and perhaps some burning? Or cleanse by removing a condition with each pulse?  Or is this and some of the shroud attacks meant as a way to give Specter a way to run a power build? If so, that idea failed. Power Specter is never going to be a thing. This could really use a functionality that support or condi Specter (or both) can appreciate.

 

Well of Silence:  
Daze is always appreciated, and it procs with each pulse. This makes it potentially get some synergy with Pressure Striking in trickery, and a decent way to screw with PvE mobs.

 

Well of Sorrow:
Good well for both alacrity and condi DPS purposes, nothing to add really.

 

Shadowfall:
A bit niche, but it might be nice to control entire groups (while you probably bring Basilisk Venom for singular bossfights), not sure. The animation is a bit...dramatic however. If you stand near the center of it your entire screen gets warped and you might have a hard time seeing anything else.

 

Proposal: 
Consider giving this skill a bit more oomph in PvE should people opt to rather run Basilisk venom.

 

Possible issues with the Specter traits:

 

Second Opinion:
This tries to compete with Consume Shadows and fails miserably at doing so. There is always the possibility that Consume Shadows gets hit with the nerf bat, but even in a nerfed state people will always go for that particular trait. The reasoning is simple: If all of the traits in a row have to do with X, then people will always go for whatever makes X the strongest/does X the best.

 

Proposal: 
Since there is no way in hell anyone will pick this when Consume Shadows exists, why not repurpose this slot for some support for scepter skills or perhaps (dare I say it) condition damage?  A second opinion typically boils down to asking/doing something again but hoping for a different result. Perhaps this could toy around with the idea of decreasing initiative costs if you do not use the same skill twice in a row or something? Or make scepter skills do something additional to their current effects? By making it condi focused you would at least force a condi specter into a trade-off situation where it either gets better DPS but no burst heal, or it gets a burst heal but lower DPS. You could even consider to tone down Dark Sentry/Larcenous Torment/Strength of Shadows and give that condi power back through this trait, possibly by making Shroud skills stack the venom on the Specter itself.

 

Shallow Grave:
This can be used to keep yourself or an ally from dying once, but I am not sure if on a 60s cooldown it will see much use in PvE.  Perhaps this is more of a PvP trait similar to the necro one to save yourself from unexpected burst once in a while? In a world where Consume Shadows exists you will have to do better than this to be worth considering, at least in PvE.

 

Proposal:
For PvE this one could probably use a buff. I am not sure what exactly, probably a defensive support option, so you have three distinct choices in the adept traits for Specter: Condition damage, Burst Heals, and Support. The eventual buff/change would depend on what happens to Consume Shadows and the niche that would open up because of it.

 

Consume Shadows:  
The first part of the Holy Overperforming Trinity (HOT). This will be the premier option no matter what build you run in its current state. Great burst healing potential (even when not invested in healing or support whatsoever) on top of transforming any ‘over healing’ (wasted heals because a target is at 100% hp) into barrier. And that with the low cooldown on Shadow Shroud and the ease you can generate shadowforce with on most builds.  Extremely strong trait to the point there is no reason to go for anything else (On multiple occasions I have triggered 5k heals+ 5k barriers or just 9.5k heals/barriers. On a viper build. In an AoE. By flashing shroud with less than 6.5 seconds cooldown).

 

Proposal:
It might be a bit early to say this, but this might be a candidate for some toning down. There is simply no reason to run any other adept trait than this one if this stays unchanged. The base values could probably go down (perhaps make it scale better with healing power in return so invested support healers can still pull this off), because right now this is essentially a full heal + massive barrier for you and nearby allies if you just flash your shroud off CD in a DPS build. DPS should certainly have survivability, but not on this level.

 

Dark Sentry:
The second part of HOT that combo's with the third part of HOT in Endless Night. This trait is extremely powerful to the point you could call it broken.
It looks like a distant cousin of Firebrand’s Ashes of the Just skill, but for torment (and way easier to apply). Applying it with barrier to allies provides some nice gameplay interactions as well, but it does lead to a situation where spamming scepter’s Endless Night on 3 allies provides more torment than anything else you can possibly do.

 

Auto-attacking an ally without quickness can seemingly place a max of 16-18 Rot Wallow Venom Stacks on them (they started to expire for me above that amount). Spamming scepter/pistol 3 without quickness made me give around 21-22 stacks (7 venoms per target per attack).  Since you can hit 3 allied targets at once with this attack that theoretically means you can possibly give out 65-70 stacks of Rot Wallow venom in total with three scepter 3 combo’s. Now buff this with the attack speed bonus from quickness. That’s a lot of torment. For never hitting a foe. Just allies. Attacking an enemy will never be able to keep up with this. While it’s certainly a unique way to do damage, I think its unhealthy.

 

Proposal: 
I want Condi DPS Specter to be a thing, but this trait feels to me like it is massively overperforming, especially when combined with Endless Night from Scepter/Pistol. To be honest I don’t know if the ICD of this trait needs to be stronger, if the torment it inflicts needs to be cut in duration or if the duration of the Rot Wallow Venom buff itself needs to be lower, but some changes are probably in order. It simply cannot be right that spamming the support half of attacks on allies results in higher DPS than actually attacking the target head-on. Perhaps this could somehow lower the effectiveness of the buff on allies, but make it easier to stack on the Specter itself somehow. That way you also avoid the situation where Specter does broken condi DPS in groups, but below average condi DPS when it’s alone. Or simply find a way to make this give a lower amount of stacks when used with Endless Night, or shift some of the venom generation towards shroud skills.

 

Larcenous Torment:
Preferred condi DPS option and gives a lot of Shadow Force generation for condi builds. It’s good in what it does.

 

Amplified Siphoning:  
100% stronger barriers sounds great until you figure out that it only applies to the barrier you give out with Siphon, and not to any other barrier you can give.  Why would you pick this trait when it competes with healing Alacrity Wells, better condi DPS and insane Shadow Force regeneration, and Consume Shadows can reliably hit the barrier cap all on its own (making this redundant)?

 

Proposal:
 The first thing that should be done is allowing steal traits to also proc when you hit an ally with Siphon. Right now targeting an ally will not proc traits like Thrill of the Crime or Bountiful Theft, missing out on a lot of boons. That should be fixed. Once that is done, this should also give the increased Shadow Force when using Siphon on an ally as well. And finally, to make this trait compete, I think the overall barrier generation of Specter should be lowered, but in return the 100% stronger barriers from this trait should apply to ALL barriers the specter gives out, possibly with a lower bonus than 100% to avoid it becoming broken. But that way you might get a situation where you can pick between Condi DPS, Alac healer, or a HealScourge-like Barrier-support Specter. I would also keep an eye on if this variant builds up enough shadow force, since its shadow force generation is by far the weakest out of your three master trait options.

 

Traversing Dusk:  
Very strong trait, healing and alacrity on wells feels like a Thief used Steal on a Chronomancer (and got away with it). Most support builds will want to have this, especially when combined with Shadow Saviour in Shadow Arts (if that is even needed). You can keep alacrity up on 5 man with little to no boonduration if you bring enough wells.

 

Panaku's Ambition:
We get this for free, but I am not sure how much value this is going to give us in PvE. Both condi and heal/support builds are currently not relying on stealth, they do not even seem to bring any stealth skills. This would have been cool if instead of only resetting once the stealth is gone it would trigger with each pulse of stealth you get. That would have mad interactions with blasting smokefields or Shadow Refuge. But hey, perhaps PvP and WvW Specters love this one. If so, this is mainly just a “little extra”, in PvE for flavour, nothing more.

 

Strength of Shadows:
This trait does many things at once, and all of them good. You take less damage from foes with condis, you get more condi damage based on vitality (hybrid builds in particular will love this), and Rot Wallow Venom torment lasting 50% longer? That’s a lot of long torment. Top tier. Maybe a little too much, considering even support builds are currently picking this over the two more obvious support grandmasters.

 

Proposal:
Perhaps we can shift a part of this trait to where the adept trait Second Opinion used to be? Just so a condition damage focused build don’t run around with the full heal+barrier from Consume Shadows every few seconds, but has to take a condi adept instead? Or to that poor Shroud we are consistently ignoring in favour of scepter/pistol 3 spam?

 

Hungering Darkness:
Interesting concept, but nobody will run this in PvE because it only affects one target, so it could use a buff.

 

Proposal:  
Keep it simple. Specter has no way to effectively deal with conditions on allies. Let this be how they can do it. Make using Shroud skills remove a condition from allies near you perhaps? That way you might be able to let it compete with your other options in fights where a lot of condition damage is present. Or make it increase the tether in shroud to 5 man. In all cases, this has no use in PvE right now, at least not that I could think off. PvP players might disagree about this trait's usefulness tho.

 

Shadestep:
This trait partially suffers from the same problems as Amplified Siphoning: You never want to target an ally with Siphon because steal traits don’t trigger, meaning you lose out on a lot of potential boons, and the barrier part is not needed because the barrier spam on Specter is already extremely strong thanks to Consume Shadows and Endless Night.

 

Proposal: 
If you want this trait to keep its current function, the overall barrier generation needs to go down, meaning Endless Night and Consume Shadows need to be looked at. If those two get changed to a bit more reasonable levels of power (or some of it transferred to this trait) this trait could have a shot in a barrier build together with Amplified Siphoning. Right now it's not worth it.

 

Closing statement:

I like Specter. It is a very unique spec with original ideas and gameplay. It will certainly be able to fill a condi DPS role, and a support role also has potential. But with many things capped to only 5 man (or even less in some cases)  support will have a hard time in raids for the most part.

The ‘protect the king’ style the devs seem to be going for, with especially single target shroud tethering and a big chunk of the 1-3 man target allied scepter attacks, simply does NOT work in PvE.

The fix however seems relatively straight forward: Up most things to at the very least 5 targets (or perhaps even 10 when it comes to Alacrity and healing or barrier), and consider changing some targeted things to be an AoE effect. Next, make sure that Specter can fight enemies, and not the UI. This means that the UI could probably use several new keybinds and new ways to quickly select your allies. If not the targeted support half of Specter will continue to feel clunky as you will often find yourself fighting the UI or mis-clicking at crucial moments.

 But if these things are fixed,  I can see Support Specter pop up in all forms of PvE content, because it certainly has the base tools to have potential there. Yes, some things are underperforming (poor Shroud), and others are massively overperforming (hello Consume Shadows/Dark Sentry/Endless Night!), but the fixes needed for this spec are a lot simpler than those for some of the other specs from EoD. If anything, I think Specter is easily one of the better ones in terms of design and the state it is currently in.

Thanks for reading!

 

 

 

 

 

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

It might be a bit early to say this, but this might be a candidate for some toning down. There is simply no reason to run any other adept trait than this one if this stays unchanged

True but that is not the fault of the trait which seems to be fine for what it is considering that you basically have to throw away the main class mechanic at full charge to get the maximum out of it. The main issue here isn't that it's overperforming in what i does but that the other things are underperforming in what they do. People are willing to sacrifice Shadow Shroud so easily because they don't value it (which in its current state is understandable) but if Shadow Shroud were actually something you want to be in as much as possible than there would be more of a trade-off here plus it would be considerably less effective as an emergency heal if you're only at e.g. 40-60% shadow force because you just so happened to be in Shadow Shroud. Same thing with the traits. If e.g. Second Opinion would give you 10-20% Incoming Heal Effectiveness and would make the support effects from ally targeting also apply to the player when targeting an enemy and Shallow Grave would allow you to re-sustain yourself in Shadow Shroud then the other options would be more competitive.

I agree that Consume Shadows overshadows the other options but it's better to address the issue by improving the things that could use some improvements anyway.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Tails.9372

[dontlook.1823]

I am all about the Spector e-spec. It is was done really, really well. I had so much fun being able to single target buff and pierce buff. Rot Whallow was a well though out mechanic. Even though you are buffing you are still indirectly contributing to the DPS of the fight. I saw the torment takes your expertise and condition damage. Really nice to see that tick. Then when you are done buffing you can play tactical support and immobilize targets while chucking a great deal of torment on the target. 

Things I particularly liked:

The Rot Whallow mechanic is awesome

Scepter/Pistol feels very fluid and a deadly combo 

The traits a very well done and speak to a multitude of playstyles

Cele is really, really good for this Mid-range assailant.

Awesome Tactical assists 

Great for small group roaming... Haven't tested it in a squad but I am sure they are impactful.

The weapon skills are all useful. 

What could be pumped up:

Scepter/dagger duel wield attack is underpowered. Swiftness and a healing bolt is nice but the boon could be something like Alac or Proc or *vigor* something relevant to combat.

Despite the large number of torment stacked it doesn't do as much damage as I would like even with the trait.

 

 

[AikijinX.6258]

On 10/27/2021 at 4:36 PM, AikijinX.6258 said:

What I want looked at and possibly changed

-Velocity increase for twilight combo 

-Add additional Tracking on twilight combo 

-Rework of shroud skills (especially the easily telegraphed 5 Stun skill) 

-Stealth attack needs to actually do something useful (doesn’t hit hard, doesn’t CC, doesn’t apply any meaningful condition that you don’t already apply with an AA. 

-Sc/p 3 needs functionality improvement or just a rework in general

-sc/p & sc/d both need better #2 weapon skill options (maybe a leap or teleport, or something more utility based)

-Wells needs some type of stun break

-The spec needs more combo finishers and projectile finishers besides going into shroud

-I feel as though that healing trait in the major adept 1st slot can be changed to a minor and we can get another trait to occupy that. Preferably something to do with power. Like… at least give us 1 power trait option lol.

-Fix the delay between our hidden thief trait and our Healing Well utility

EDIT (10/28)- Get rid of that Siphon (Steal) line of sight/Valid path requirement. 

EDIT (10/28)- Shroud 3 needs to track. Way too many times I’m targeting someone and it just goes a completely different direction even while facing towards them

EDIT (10/28)- Twilight combo needs to be able to pierce enemies or hit multiple enemies in a cone.

 

*I’ll update this post more as I remember them*

-So everything I said above in the quoted message, plus possible .5 or 1s Stability when entering shroud, too many times I try to enter enter shroud and get CC'd, and then both my F1 and F2 go on CD. Which brings me to the other point

-Take off that annoying CD thats on steal whenever you get CC'd. There's like this 3s CD whenever you get CC'd that occurs on both F1 and F2. That doesn't happen for any other Thief Spec, so I'm hoping that's just a bug

-Shroud 4 needs an increase in range and tracking

-And I will say it again. REMOVE Valid pathing or line of sight requirement from siphon

 

Specter has been pretty fun, and once you get a grasp of how to actually use it offensively, it's pretty strong. I really hope these QoL fixes for like Velocity increases for Twilight Combo, or like a change in damage or even just entirely a rework of our Scepter Stealth attack, or the interaction with hidden thief and siphon steal delay get looked at. This spec was surprisingly very fun to use and play around with.  

But also fix that ally targeting.

EDIT (10/31)- Did they specify the actual reason for the loss of 3 initiative? Why is that even a thing? Not like it makes a difference much, since fighting is fine with the spec, but it just seems so random and arbitrary. I don't understand why that specifically was a trade off, opposed to something else. Plus we already don't have access to F2 steal skills, why didn't the tradeoff end with that?

EDIT (10/31)- Did you guys just forget about Specter underwater utility and viability? Because Specter has 0 Underwater utilities.

Edited November 15, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Caligrafers Blade.3871]

Quick observations 

 

On Support 

I'd use scepter here and Siphon on ally as soon as I enter combat. Then build shadow force, get to shroud, and spam skills on enemies while tethered, rinse and repeat. I would'nt look at damage here or going on the offensive at all. I'd probably consider Well of Gloom and Bounty, and trait Shadow Arts. 

 

By just considering this. the low initiative and the shadowstep on all wells seem justified to an extent. 

 

Going Offensive

Short bow, pistol/dagger or dual dagger combo here, simpy 'cause Thieves can trait for boosting poison and bleeds, but torment no so much. I wouln'd want to use scepter here at all. I'd also take Deadly Arts over Shadow Arts, and no wells; they're suicide. I'd use shroud mainly for its barrier trait, so I'd tap in and tap out F2 immediately; no access to Thief utilities in shroud is again suicide in any mode. (Got around 10k barrier on full Plaguedoctor when insta-retapped shroud, so makes sense to ignore shroud skills completely.) 

 

However, the low intiative hurts really bad here. Not sure how to fix this (faster regen trait perhaps?) but I'm guessing if we are to go offensive condi, I'd rather use Daredevil or I 'dare'say, Deadeye, since we're not using shourd skills anyway.  

 

Final Thoughts

Feels like both builds would work great in PvE but not sure about the offensive builds for PvP.  I'd like to think this is a rare support-heavy elite, something I'd never thought I'd ever say about a Thief elite. Great idea though, could almost say it's very close to a paradigm shift for this profession. 

Phenonemal effort. 

 

Just one last thing to keep this short. Anet, please reduce the scepter sound effects. They're really loud. 

 

 

 

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

EDIT (10/31)- Did they specify the actual reason for the loss of 3 initiative? Why is that even a thing? Not like it makes a difference much, since fighting is fine with the spec, but it just seems so random and arbitrary. I don't understand why that specifically was a trade off, opposed to something else. Plus we already don't have access to F2 steal skills, why didn't the tradeoff end with that?

No reason given but from what I understand it's supposed to be a trade-off for getting something they would otherwise consider to be "to powerful" to just be handed out (just like how the Mechanist lost access to tool belt skills as a trade-off for the mech). Issue here is that as of right now Shadow Shroud does not perform on a level where such a trade-off would be justified which is generally fine as this was just a beta test but Shadow Shroud not performing as it should can have a negative impact on the featback people give regarding other things (e.g. people calling Consume Shadows overpowered because they don't see the gains from sacrificing Shadow Shroud as justified even though using it like that is technically still a net loss in survivability and would be impractical if Shadow Shroud were actually as good as it should be).

[Telperion.6187]

This elite spec feels like it's made for me! I'm a thief main since launch and I often play with my partner. We like to dive into 2vX's when duo roaming in WvW. But Thief builds never worked too well in that scenario.

So I love the concept of Specter as a single-target support. Never have I concentrated on allies more than in this beta - not even as a support guardian in WvW or PvP. I also like the art and animations. They still feel like Thief. The support toolkit of Specter is pretty well-rounded already. The offensive support (might, fury, quickness) is just as important as the defensive aspect (heal, barrier, cleanse, ...). Personal survivability and cc are also fine. Overall, I'm very happy with this elite spec.

Mobility is the only aspect I think to be completely off:
- Shroud 3 should have a short cast time, allow for a variable distance, and immobilize/chill/cripple/pull/stun on impact. It's good that most Specter skills are ranged. When my ally gets pressured, I want to help them rather than die with them. Shroud 4 and 5 give big payoffs for briefly going into melee, which I like. But right now, I can't get on top of an enemy reliably. This is the role Shroud 3 has to fill. Right now, the fixed distance makes me dash passed my target and the fear even forces them to run out of my shroud 4 and 5 if I manage to hit.
- The first part of scepter/pistol 3 should be deleted. Mostly, I want to support my ally from a safe distance. And often, I want to chase enemies. So while the second part of scepter/pistol 3 is great, the first part forces me to teleport where I don't want to be. Also in strikes/fractals/raids, this forced movement is bad.
- Wells should not teleport. I don't want to throw my own body into a group of enemies just so I can put an offensive aoe there. Anyway, in WvW roaming most wells don't look viable to me and that's fine, but even in strikes/fractals/raids I don't want constant camera jumps.
- If Shroud 3 turns out to be the only mobility skill of Specter, the maximum distance should be raised to 900. Note that Specter's reduced initiative decreases the mobility of all weapon sets.

Some additional comments (with decreasing priority):
- Shroud 5 should give stability on activation and still additional stability if it hits. This would make its usage more interactive.
- I would like some condition cleanse on allies outside of Shroud, e.g. on scepter 2. I guess the trait Hungering Darkness should be nerfed a bit then. Also, some might generation could be moved from scepter 2 to scepter 1.
- Shroud generation should be more reliable. Right now, it's heavily loaded into Siphon, which is often blocked or evaded by players.
- The boons given to Steal by the Trickery trait line should be applied when using Siphon on an ally or without a target (with half duration).
- The scepter auto attacks should have a shorter cast time. Right now, I have to cancel the channel by stowing weapons if I suddenly need to cast some other skill.
- Scepter 3 should be guaranteed to connect to the ally target. I would prefer if it does not apply to allies in between at all because that promotes weird movement in PvE group play.
- In PvE, party-wide alacrity plus barrier is a great niche to be filled by Specter. While single-target quickness is essential to make the single-target support work, I don't think party-wide quickness should be achievable. I think some party-wide might would make Specter fit better in our current support meta.
- Well of Bounty and Well of Tears should be changed to one offensive boon well and one defensive boon well. In strikes/fractals/raids, I usually want to extend the duration of boons that are already applied. Right now, Well of Tears has no place since specter does not promote power builds.
- The trait Traversing Dusk should apply to wells only. I don't like promoting zero distance teleports. (For the same reason, I don't like Shadow Savior in the Shadow Arts trait line.)

[AikijinX.6258]

32 minutes ago, Telperion.6187 said:

The trait Traversing Dusk should apply to wells only. I don't like promoting zero distance teleports. (For the same reason, I don't like Shadow Savior in the Shadow Arts trait line.)

I agree. Literally all of our spec utilities are Wells and that traversing Dusk trait that effects wells should allow for 20% Well reduction CD. It only makes sense.

 

32 minutes ago, Telperion.6187 said:

Shroud 5 should give stability on activation and still additional stability if it hits. This would make its usage more interactive.

I hadn’t thought about this like that. But I agree. On activation and again on hit if it hits reliably, but if it doesn’t hit then you’re out of luck. 

 

32 minutes ago, Telperion.6187 said:

Wells should not teleport. I don't want to throw my own body into a group of enemies just so I can put an offensive aoe there. Anyway, in WvW roaming most wells don't look viable to me and that's fine,

I believe Wells should be a flip skill that way we have autonomy over the skill, and we can decide whether or not we want to nose dive right into action. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[AikijinX.6258]

On 10/31/2021 at 4:31 AM, Tails.9372 said:

No reason given but from what I understand it's supposed to be a trade-off for getting something they would otherwise consider to be "to powerful" to just be handed out (just like how the Mechanist lost access to tool belt skills as a trade-off for the mech). Issue here is that as of right now Shadow Shroud does not perform on a level where such a trade-off would be justified which is generally fine as this was just a beta test but Shadow Shroud not performing as it should can have a negative impact on the featback people give regarding other things (e.g. people calling Consume Shadows overpowered because they don't see the gains from sacrificing Shadow Shroud as justified even though using it like that is technically still a net loss in survivability and would be impractical if Shadow Shroud were actually as good as it should be).

Consume shadow is strong, but the (Life alert) trait is also a good one too, despite being 300s. But I agree shroud doesn’t perform nearly as well as it should.
Shroud 3 should have tracking and longer distance (900)

shroud 4 should have tracking and longer range,

shroud 5 should give 1s stability on press and reward 2s stability again if it hits target

Just popping into shroud should give us 1s of stability or some type of invuln frame, because way too many times where you get CC’d go into the form and then skills are on CD, even your Steal goes on CD when cc’d.. for like 3s. If you wanted to utilize your (Hidden thief SA trait) to get a couple seconds of breathability 

Edited November 1, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

if we had a rune with support stats and a bit offensive stats that as the (6) would allow us to have a SHADOW FORM ally, immune and untargetable that would be a "catalyst" for our heals, when we autoattack or use heal skills on it, it would amplify our offensive attacks on enemies but also split nevessary skills the make them burst around in aoe and split projectiles that seek allies an enemies(allies first) and burst out to heal party or team members.

[Laki.7160]

Specter was great. Love the duality of ally and enemy targeting in the same skill. Easily the elite I'm most excited for. Rot Wallow Venom is an especially nice touch.

 

Too many shadowsteps though. Especially on wells - would be nice to be able to not shadowstep directly into danger when trying to support someone else with a well.

 

The scepter/pistol dual skill shadowstep is also awkward when targeting allies. Sort of helpful when your teammate is running away from you without paying attention, but other than that it was just cumbersome.

 

There are also a lot of traits that buff steal that doesn't really make sense when targeting allies. I ended up taking them anyways for secondary effects (like steal cooldown reduction), but it still seemed awkward.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Laki.7160

[AikijinX.6258]

Maybe anet can rework some of the Steal related trait interactions: For instance Mug. (Instead of inflicting the 2k+ dmg on an enemy and healing just yourself, when directed towards allies it'll heal for 2k along with offering possibly 5 stacks of might. Possible idea. But I am definitely in the position where I would support trait reworks that interact with Specter.

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

I agree. Literally all of our spec utilities are Wells and that traversing Dusk trait that effects wells should allow for 20% Well reduction CD. It only makes sense.

I don't get why people want CD reduction Traits. They are essentially fake Traits, as to balance them you just design the base CD to be longer, making the skills a spec has CD reduction Traits for worse if you don't select the Trait - all while usually taking away the "slot" of a proper Trait effect. 

 

Traversing Dusk already is extremely packed having 3 effects with Shadow Force on Shadowstep, Heal on Shadowstep and Alacrity on Wells (which already is CD reduction), if on top of that it gave 20% Well CD reduction, they'd just increase the base CD of the wells to 25-35 seconds, as otherwise that would be way to short, while replacing one of the current proper effects/benefits, since 4 effects on one Trait would definitely be too bloated. 

 

Having CD reduction Traits is just a bad deal all around. Just compare an Elite Spec Utility CD reduction Trait like Sadistic Searing vs. a non CD reduction Elite Spec Utility Trait in Traversing Dusk (designed around CD reduction + throwaway effect vs. 3 powerful Trait effects). 

 

I'd much rather have Punishments recharge 20% faster baseline and have a proper Trait in it's stead. 

You don't want illusionary CD reduction Traits.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Tails.9372]

4 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Consume shadow is strong

As it should given what you sacrifice but if people were actually using Shadow Shroud then the emergency heal it provides, on average, would be significantly weaker which is something I feel many people overlook when evaluating its current performance which is what I meant when I said Shadow Shroud being undesirable to use has a negative impact on the feedback regarding other things. But we do get another beta and I hope that they don't touch Consume Shadows while also properly buffing up Shadow Shroud so that we can properly evaluate how it would actually perform under more ideal scenarios.

[RisenHowl.2419]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

As it should given what you sacrifice but if people were actually using Shadow Shroud then the emergency heal it provides, on average, would be significantly weaker which is something I feel many people overlook when evaluating its current performance which is what I meant when I said Shadow Shroud being undesirable to use has a negative impact on the feedback regarding other things. But we do get another beta and I hope that they don't touch Consume Shadows while also properly buffing up Shadow Shroud so that we can properly evaluate how it would actually perform under more ideal scenarios.

what could shadow shroud offer that's better than a full heal+barrier on a 7s cd with a 600 radius?

[AikijinX.6258]

4 minutes ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

what could shadow shroud offer that's better than a full heal+barrier on a 7s cd with a 600 radius?

Stability, coupled with it

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

what could shadow shroud offer that's better than a full heal+barrier on a 7s cd with a 600 radius?

An overall better performance. Your time in Shadow Shroud should always feel like a step up from "your normal self" but during the beta this just wasn't the case as you had more damage, better support capabilities, access to your other abilities and an overall more fluit gameplay experience when out of shroud. The fact that there is only one trait aimed at buffing the shroud itself is not helping either.

If people felt like they would be missing out while not being in shroud then they would actually use it instead of holding it back for a heal that might or might not be in demand which in turn would essentially be a nerf to the healing Consume Shadows provides.

[bruakumfd.4817]

Maybe instead of making the Specter all flash and no bite (I know the scepter moves aren't particularly strong; these feel worse somehow) and wells you can't use underwater (the Necromancer and Scrapper professions don't have that issue), maybe you could've been more generous with the checkpoints in Storm Tracking.

 

Yeah, I spent 30 minutes+ on that solely because it was the last part with only a raptor and a springer. Not only have I never had the patience for that Balthazar fight when I got this on sale, I surely don't have that right now with six courses. And no, I didn't choose for that amount since I spent months trying to fill my time with a job. 

[Matt H.6142]

Specter was the one I returned to most this week, but the mechanist was certainly the most enjoyable.  Condition Damage and Healing is a tough stat set for a low health pool character to use in this game, so we'll see what comes in EOD for new stat sets.

It's difficult to feel/know your effectiveness switching back and forth from attacking the enemy so you can't see your ally health going up, or healing your ally and can't see the enemy torment damage.  Would definitely require a controlled theorycraft session to know it's working.

As someone said in map chat, given scepter/pistol, why would you ever go scepter/dagger.  The answer should be for the interactions with stealth, but it's not a strong argument, given the added shadowstep, and the multi-target Endless Night giving barrier that pistol provides.

I get, but don't like that Haunt Shot isn't automatically set to Auto-Attack like Death Shroud is, and it doesn't seem like I can keep it set to A/A.

A core thief issue really, but it's complete ranger food in WvW without health and/or projectile blocks.

Love the applies unique conditions/boons mechanic on the wells.  Healing/Alacrity wells treads on Chronomancer a lot IMO, but I guess the shadowstep forcing the thief into the front lines is fair risk/reward...

Mind Shock needs to give stability at the start of its timer, not the end.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Matt H.6142