Specter Feedback Thread

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

5 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Nope. They're the kinda babysitter that puts a toddler leash&harness on the kid and protec. But then they get mugged while protecting the kid from a kidnapping and die from an infected wound cuz their first aid kit doesn't function on adults cuz of a mysterious ancient curse.

Wow, man, irrelevant but funny. lol.

 

Specters are not there to protect anyone, that's the Guardian's job. Specters are nurses, you run to the nurse office to get patches up -- not healed, cured, or resurrected, but patched up. If you need a band-aid, you go to the nurse (Specter), that's it's only job, to give away band-aids, maybe some candy if you're not naughty.

[Arheich.5170]

Hello.

 

I just tried specter for a second time and I have 2 things to say:

 

1. I use action camera to play. I love the mobility it gives me. The problem is Siphon (f1) doesn`t work in action camera mode
2. As the same reason as above, I hardly can use scepter dual skills in action camera mode because I have to be really precise (put the pointer on the foe/ally) to make it work.

I don't know if this is part of the mechanic but it really be great if you guys can solve those issues and make it work on action camera.

 

Thank you very much.

[Doggie.3184]

4 minutes ago, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Wow, man, irrelevant but funny. lol.

 

Specters are not there to protect anyone, that's the Guardian's job. Specters are nurses, you run to the nurse office to get patches up -- not healed, cured, or resurrected, but patched up. If you need a band-aid, you go to the nurse (Specter), that's it's only job, to give away band-aids, maybe some candy if you're not naughty.

I guess they should allow chairs in WvW and add a nurse station and I can just sit inside the safety of a fort, away from instadeathification through full tank gear+shroud and wait for people to run up to me for bandaids.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

59 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I guess they should allow chairs in WvW and add a nurse station and I can just sit inside the safety of a fort, away from instadeathification through full tank gear+shroud and wait for people to run up to me for bandaids.

You exaggerate too much, your nurse office is in stealth mode.

[Extrinc.6301]

Reposting from the general EoD espec thread to give my thoughts after the first day of play with Specter v2. 

 

Traits

 

- Consume shadows changes aren't bad. It can feel like your shielding amount is sort of random though, given that you're not really ever going to watch how many seconds you're in shroud. It definitely feels like a somewhat clunky solution to incentivize players to stay in shroud. There's got to be a more elegant solution I feel, but honestly this could go live as is and I would be -fine- with it.

 

- Shallow Grave is really lame. Given that you're almost never target-tethering to someone (more on that later) this is basically just a trait that may perhaps resurrect a party member maybe?? Very unreliable. As for the self-res, maybe it's not made for me but it feels really unimpactful to have an entire trait ONLY be relevant if you're downed, and even then it basically just catches your mistake. Doesn't actually heal you, doesn't buff you, just presses a button for you essentially. Maybe this is for the super-casual crowd but I think more could be loaded onto this, as is it feels worthless.

 

- Second opinion is also -fine- but I think healing power kind of sucks. Would love to see boon duration on this since specter already has decent enough healing, and gaining healing power off of condi damage is somewhat contradictory. I think you're always going to take consume shadows in this row, and consume shadows isn't even that crazy.

 

I like all the second and third row traits actually. Amplified Siphoning could be a bit cooler/stronger but the other two options are great, a support option and a condi option. I wish the first row had these choices instead of being exclusively support. Third row is also good, a condi option with some nice DR packed in and a support option, along with a... pvp option? Hungering Darkness is a little confusing but I barely PvP so maybe it's better there.

 

Weapon Skills

 

Shadow Bolt: Auto attack is fine, I like the chain. Damage is solid with a condi build. Feels good, neat sound. Kind of useless on allies, but that's a running theme through a few skills. No complaints really since you're not using it much anyways.

 

Shadow Sap: THIS ABILITY SUCKS. I cannot emphasize that enough. It is so useless. It does poor damage, the might is also terrible, the barrier is terrible... To give one person 25 might, I need to use my entire initiative bar. Other classes can do it in 1-2 button presses for a group. I think doubling the might granted on this would be a start, but even then I just don't like it. I just want all of it redesigned. It sucks on enemies and allies. PLEASE CHANGE THIS.

 

Measured Shot/Endless Night: Sigh... I knew I wouldn't like it after seeing those changes, and I really do not. The one man quickness is INCREDIBLY clunky as each cast requires a teleport to the target. This was more forgiveable since you could hit an entire group with it, but now I'm frantically clicking my allies teleporting around and having my channel cancelled by line of sight issues because I end up walking the wrong way due to being teleported. I honestly just want this reverted, and I wouldn't mind the teleport option taken out as well... it's just disorienting and unnecessary. For the enemy option, can there please be a cap of how much you can move away from the mob? Spamming this on an enemy actually has me push myself out of range so that I can't use the follow up skill. It's really odd and I don't like the forced movement, we have enough of that with daredevil. Please make the beam hit groups again, and please at least put a cap on the shadowstep away so that I can't push myself out of 900 range.

 

Twilight Combo: I like this way better! It feels WAY better to press and I like the animation, it's cool. The damage is great and I'm happy with the enemy side. The ally side, however... Swiftness, really? It gives one ally swiftness? For a support spec, specter has very lackluster boons. Honestly, if you made this give a chunky amount of might instead (or in addition, since it's just swiftness...), I would like it way more. Just strip the might from Scepter 2 so you can rework that entirely.

 

Siphon: I love siphon on enemies. Basically a steal that gives me a resource and doesn't have a shadowstep. Love it. On allies? Useless. Not only is the ally effect extremely pitiful with no boons and only a tiny barrier, it also will only actually tether when I'm in shroud, so I couldn't pre-emptively set my tether if I wanted to (I don't). In shroud, I'd rather be using the shroud abilities than moving my stupid tether around that gives 1k barrier. This also means that the trait Shallow Grave feels bad to use by proxy, since I will never actually be tethered to a specific target in fun gameplay situations. I really think it should just do... A LOT more for allies, have the same cd as offensive steal, and have that be the choice. Do you want to do some damage or give a chunky barrier + boons? I think that's far more interesting, cause as of now there's never a choice... Why would I ever use it on allies?

 

Shroud

 

Shroud feels better than it did last beta, but I think it still needs some changes. Dawn's Repose (3) change was AWESOME and I love the ability now, being able to actually target where to go is great. I wish Mind Shock (5) gave stability at the start of the cast rather than the end of the channel, doesn't make much sense... Why would I need stability at the end? Everyone around me just got stunned and can't cc me. I'd rather have it so I can get in position to actually stun them. I also think Eternal Night (4) should be an AoE around the character rather than in front. The animation is very misleading, as you clearly spin around when doing it... You have no idea how long I thought it was an AoE around the player until I realized it was just the claws in front. As is, it doesn't match up with the animation well and I just don't love small frontal cones in general. Still, shroud feels better, even if it could be beefed up a bit damage wise. It also basically does nothing for the support end of specter, which is both a very odd design choice for a support spec and really lame for people who want to play it in a purely support manner. Why do none of these skills give actual buffs? Only doing things for the tethered target is so terrible, and even then, the things it does for them are pitiful. Not sure why this isn't more like druid celestial form. And again, the issue with siphon and the tether... 

 

Wells

 

I have the least criticism here. Most wells are awesome! Bounty, Silence, Sorrow all do what they need to do, and Shadowfall is amazing CC. There's one well I take issue with, and that's Well of Tears. It is a purely power option in a spec that has NO support for power builds. I just don't see the point of it. I'd love to see some more designwork on this one, as it feels like a filler ability. It doesn't even follow the trend the others set of doing different things until all conditions are met, then doing another thing (i.e. applying poison/bleed, then if they have both apply torment). Bounty, Silence and Sorrow are such homeruns though that I'd be fine if this went live like this. 

 

Overall it feels worse, but mainly because of the Scepter 3 Scepter/Pistol change. There were some good changes made, but I think too much was taken away and in general balancing has been too conservative with Specter for no reason. Alacren, Scourge, and Firebrand exist, but we can only give Specter 5 might on their weapon skill, or 1 man quickness? I'm having fun with specter in open world, but in group content it's much harder to justify than last build, which is where this spec really needs to come through. Thief players REALLY want a support spec they can confidently bring in to fractals and raids. I think this spec can be it, the narrow focus on a 2 player support just needs to be dropped a bit, especially since it's not even very remarkable as a two player support.

 

Thank you! I'm really eager to see more changes. Thank you for reading this to anyone that has!

Edited December 1, 2021 by Extrinc.6301
Updated

[DemonSeed.3528]

Quote

Dawn's Repose: This ability is now a ground-targeted ability instead of a ground-targeted dash. Range has been reduced from 600 to 450, with the affected radius being reduced from 240 to 180 and Fear being reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5. This ability is now a leap finisher.

I personally feel this changed made it more clunky to use, whereas the previous iteration felt more fluid with the overall gameplay, at least in modes like WvW. There is a 3/4 cast time that needs to be ground targeted which just feels awkward, which also got a shorter range for who knows what reason. I wish changes to things that already felt fluid enough should not have happened. They have to remain fluid & fun, not janky and disjointed.

[Chrysaliss.8720]

Ally targeting just feels super clunky. I think, that in order for the ally targeting skills to work, we need to have the ability to move party UI anywhere we want on screen. Having it hard locked to the edge of the screen just makes ally targeting not viable.

Also the whole spec just doesnt feel good. Its a massive letdown. Cant even spec it as a pdps.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Chrysaliss.8720

[Lucinellia.9247]

32 minutes ago, Chrysaliss.8720 said:

Ally targeting just feels super clunky. I think, that in order for the ally targeting skills to work, we need to have the ability to move party UI anywhere we want on screen. Having it hard locked to the edge of the screen just makes ally targeting not viable.

Also the whole spec just doesnt feel good. Its a massive letdown. Cant even spec it as a pdps.

There is just so much missing in terms of UI and UX for support Specter to work. I've tried to detail the shortcomings in this thread and I would definitely appreciate your thoughts, especially if I have missed anything or you've noticed other problems with the playstyle.

 

At the very least, support Specter needs the Endless Night situation rethought, a moveable party UI that can be shown as a grid and this party UI to automatically function as though there are mouseover macros applied. This would allow the support Specter to be casting single target abilities on allies without losing focus on the enemy which reduces the amount of clicking, allows better cursor positioning for placement of wells and doesn't obscure information about the enemy target from the Specter.

[Rin.1046]

I was quite hyped for Spectre, but after seeing these recent changes, and trying it in beta 4, it feels lacking and not as impactful in the support department. I think single target support is fine, but they shouldn't be stripping the AoE support. IMO, if they want players to use shroud, they should put AoE healing/barrier in shroud. That would give players the best reason to use it, not forcing us to stay in it to get the most out of consume shadows. That just feels like such a bad way to encourage its use. And as for Endless Night, a skill that required a bit of effort to line up allies to get the most out of it (unlike the very easy to use AoE circles other specs have), it feels odd to me that they removed this option, and just for quickness?! Just remove the quickness if that was your issue Anet, not the number of targets!

 

I really hope Anet can swallow their pride here and make the right changes. They have a vision for the Spectre, but if that vision doesn't align with what the majority of players want, or if it is not fun to play, they need to be able to admit to themselves that they got it wrong, and make the necessary changes to improve it. It may be their game to make, but it's our game to play.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Rin.1046

[Tails.9372]

If before the recent changes someone would have asked me if specter was able to provide good support I would have answered yes. But right now it's just downright awful. I can understand the changes to Endless Night although if you wanted it to be "the alacrity character" then you should have just swapped the sources of quickness and alacrity around. The changes to Consume Shadows however need to be reversed as they are based on faulty reasoning and just served to significantly downgrade both the gameplay and the effectiveness of the spec for no valid reason.

If you want people to use Shadow Shroud then that's what needs to be changed as it's still as bad as it was in the last beta. It has been said multiple times during the stream that it's supposed to still inherit the "aggressive gameplay" thief is known for which currently is not reflected in it at all. It's slow, it's weak and overall not fun to use. That's the reason why no one bothers with it and not "Consume Shadows" which has been unjustly scapegoated for this issue.

Other than that specter not benefiting from its own support skills still doesn't make any sense and should be changed for at least the enemy targeting and the forced shadow step on Measured Shot is still as annoying as ever, just remove it already. If you really want to have a shadow step on the weapon set then turn scepter skill 2 into a ground targeted one.

[Burial.1958]

Clunky, clunky and again clunky with that ally targeting. Support joke when others are superior.

[Graeaw.6329]

Oh boy, I would really like to hear the reasoning of those who worked on Specter, how did we end up with the current version?

 

You can't just slap a shadowstep on everything and call it a Thief spec (laughs in Willbender)

The amount of forced movement on scepter 3 and wells is straight up epilepsy inducing.

 

The traits still need work. (As long as we have a 300s icd on a trait we are NOT going to use it, please understand that!)

 

Going in shroud feels like a punishment, the skills are simply not worth using. You literally use it only to tank damage.

 

If the devs are so obsessed with the notion of Thief being a "selfish" class, why are half of my support skills not affecting me?

 

Right now, I'm not sure what Specter's identity really is: Alacrity support with clunky, moderate aoe healing and mediocre single-target barrier?

[Tresura.5209]

Good Job on making this class unplayable on support. The scepter 3 skill feels usless with only 1 ally effected and the that the shield now breaks proportional on the number on allys effected is kinda a joke. 

Like can't u do the math or should i do it for you? Lets say ur support thief has 18k hp because u play WvW. Your max barrier is 50% of your HP so 9k. If you know break it  5 allies its 1.8k barrier each. its nothing XD 

Scourge "Sand Cascade" does 2.4k baseline withou using your full shroud . So if you wanna see this class played on support adjust the changes. E.g. Change the GM trait back to what it was before.  You'll never change everything at the same time. Make small adjustments and see how they pay off and if its fine nice and if not you have to make more. However the changes you made now feels super underwhelming and took the fun of me from playing this class.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

actually spamming autoatk on a faster attacking npc does more (roughly same dps and on top of that barrier) than using the scepter skills onto the enemy directly due to dark sentry only working for allies but not for yourself - however though this is a good idea please communicate why

 

tbh that was amusing for like 5mins, after that it was depressive.

 

+ Shroud does feel better actually, cast times are still too slow imo

 

 - main issues with action cam wern't solved even got worse now siphon isnt working either

 - traits besides traversing dusk are a joke (you can play that spec with no traits selected and it feels and does almost the same)

Edited December 1, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[BobbyT.7192]

53 minutes ago, Graeaw.6329 said:

The traits still need work. (As long as we have a 300s icd on a trait we are NOT going to use it, please understand that!)

I wouldn't use it even if the CD was 60s. This spec allows you to revive an ally pretty easily. (If you can actually select them) Why is this trait needed?

Edited December 1, 2021 by BobbyT.7192

[JaxLeo.7912]

Specter is an absolute mess right now, you wanted to make a single target support class but ended up making just another cookie cutter condi DPS that is not even good at that.

First of all, the single target idea is just bad, neither the game nor the content in it is made for a single target healer, only place where that would work is in 2v2 sPvP, and that is a temporary game mode. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, so by that single definition is obvious WHY a single target support does not work, we are supposed to play along with many players! the social aspect of the game is at the absolute core of the experience, the community is amazing, so why would you make a class that goes AGAINST this type of gameplay?

there is a VERY good post detailing why it is such a bad idea, so instead of repeating it i will just link to it:

 

If you ask me a good solution to this would be to make the abilities ground targeted with a narrow AoE range, so could be something like 300 units of effect  and 1200 range, that would make specter work while still giving a limited area that would require skill to play.

Second. you want to make thieves supports then LET THIEVES SUPPORT alacrity alone is not enough to support a group, or to fill a support role especially on a class as clunky as Specter currently is, give us the ability to provide what the party needs, at least give us good options to give AND MAINTAIN Might and Quickness at the very least, the rest of the stuff, fine, other classes can provide that, but at least let us have good ways to give what a group needs and please for the love of anything that is good forget the single target idea. IT. DOESN'T. WORK.

Third, i know that you want to give us a reason to use shroud, then the idea is not forcing us to stay on it, give us a REASON to stay on it instead, here's what i propose: make it so that staying on shroud allows us to give more buffs to the party/squad, give buff options on the shroud abilities, that way we have a good encouragement to use it and not immediately consume it for healing.

Fourth, speaking of shadow shroud, give us better options to gain shadow force, another reason why nobody goes into shroud mode is that there is not enough ways to gain shadow force, so the best option is to just go in and then back out, if you gave us good options to gain shadow force along with good incentives to maintain the shroud (healing and buffs) people would use it more.

Furthermore, if you want to make specter a focused support class, a class that focuses on one target to support, here is what i propose: give us a main support target, this target would get stronger versions of the buffs while the rest of the group would also get them just on a slightly shorter duration, let's say for example, your main target could get 8 seconds of alacrity, might x3, and quickness while the rest of the group gets 5 seconds of the same buffs.

and for the last time, so that it is CLEAR:

SINGLE. TARGET. SUPPORT. DOES. NOT. WORK.

Edited December 1, 2021 by JaxLeo.7912
more ideas to keep the ideas the team has for specter while making it work better for group content

[flowdragon.8635]

You listened! I suggested a modification to shroud 3 and it works wonderfully now! The only other thing I wish for this spec is for one of the wells to be a stun break, but I feel sure you had a reason you didn't incorporate that. (or I'm just blind). Aside from a stunbreak well, it seems pretty nice to me, good job team!

[DemonSeed.3528]

1 minute ago, flowdragon.8635 said:

You listened! I suggested a modification to shroud 3 and it works wonderfully now! The only other thing I wish for this spec is for one of the wells to be a stun break, but I feel sure you had a reason you didn't incorporate that. (or I'm just blind). Aside from a stunbreak well, it seems pretty nice to me, good job team!

Out of curiosity, what game mode are you using specter in?

[Sodeni.6041]

Shroud auto attack should do more damage than scepter auto attack in my opinion. It needs more heavier condis because it's hardly worth to be in shroud in PvE except to use skill 4.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

11 minutes ago, Sodeni.6041 said:

Shroud auto attack should do more damage than scepter auto attack in my opinion. It needs more heavier condis because it's hardly worth to be in shroud in PvE except to use skill 4.

slap on the fact that skill 1 in shroud will not stay autoattacking which is annoying to press 1 all the kitten time

[Adah.8371]

I never liked the Thief (& Elites) gameplay but that spec was really fun to play!

the only thing I regret is that the weapon isn't a 2 handed weapon. I like the scepter but it would have been better with a full bar instead of sharing it with an irrelevant weapon.

[DarkLancer.1902]

On 11/13/2021 at 1:31 AM, Ivaldi.5076 said:

You honestly think the single target focus works well in raids and large group content?

I used it for condition damage in the raid.  When I went into shadow shroud, I just focused one of the healers.  Your mistake is in thinking that just because it can be a support build that it is only a support build.  Try thinking outside the support box. 

[MatyrGustav.6210]

i am very dissatisfied with the AOE heal change stepping out of Shroud.

 

I want my clutch big heal back. I really liked having the option to use my shadow force for shroud or the big aoe heal.  Whatever i chose at the given time.

 

Now, i cant aoe heal when i want to. There's a build up, and you have to wait for it. Not worth it.

 

I really enjoyed the build i had. I focused on gaining more Shadow force from Siphon and attacking, so i can use the aoe more often. Or if wanted to stay in shroud i can choose to. Damage vs Healing. Now, i cant heal as often, since i cant even build shadow force in shroud and i cant heal when i want.

 

Also, why is it being changed in the first place? its an optional trait. 

 

revert it back. This feels like a big Nerf to me. 

 

[Zacchary.6183]

@MatyrGustav.6210

Five seconds isn't a long time, and so long as you have the HP the heal is going to be big after a few seconds anyway. You shouldn't have to use it as a clutch heal in the first place since Shadow Shroud is an instant second HP bar. If you are low on HP, hit it and wait a bit before leaving. Deal some damage while you're at it.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Zacchary.6183

[Primalblaze.7983]

Siphon skill on Specter not working. I play with action cam on at all times. When I press the Siphon skill, It goes into an interrupt cool down and doesn't cast it. When I get out of action cam and keep the right top mouse button pressed to move the camera the skill works fine. For me, Specter is not playable in action cam because Siphon is a big part of it's core mechanics.