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First off, while it’s encouraging that you’re asking for our feedback at all, I’m reticent to give any after what has happened the last two times we gave you e-spec feedback. Feedback about Acrobatics

So. Was hyped for this specialization. Really. Big disappointment. I feel like all my utilities skills are wasted and useless. They do ~0 damages I tried engaging a karka in southsun with as entr

How VERY disappointing. All those feedbacks and basically nothing was addressed and changed. Why even start a feedback thread and pretend to read and consider any feedback, when they don't care a

Would be nice if the scepter moves could pierce through other targets to get to yours, passing along its effects to those it passes through, good or bad.

Like using the auto on an ally, other allies also get barrier if it passes through them, while it also hurts enemy targets at the same time.  Up to a cap limit of course.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

Would be nice if the scepter moves could pierce through other targets to get to yours, passing along its effects to those it passes through, good or bad.

Like using the auto on an ally, other allies also get barrier if it passes through them, while it also hurts enemy targets at the same time.  Up to a cap limit of course.

I'd like this as well if it was up to 5 targets. Would be really nice for raids, since you could just target the tank and have your scepter skills both sustain and damage at the same time.

Edited by RyuDragnier.9476
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Wells really really really need skill queuing support. Casting a multiple of them - you know, the thing that you'll be doing first and foremost if you're in alacrity provider role - feels awful right now: for a brief moment it looks like the consecutive well casts are queued, but as soon as the shadowstep happens - all queued wells are cancelled. Spamming wells requires a maximum of your attention, because it's way too easy to miss a couple if you expected the queue to work and it didn't. Coupled with the forced shadowstep, it's almost better to just click all the wells with a mouse, because that ensures they'll be cast underneath you and you won't just accidentally chain-teleport yourself god knows where.

 

Also I wonder if it's possible to allow wells to be retargeted during their casttime.

Edited by ZEUStiger.3590
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Also confirming skill 3 does not work with action cam, basically at all.  I can use 1 and 3 while hovering over a target with a mouse, but as soon as I turn action cam on, I just keep getting error messages saying I need a target.  I'd also really like there to be a build that is DPS, condi or power; I do not care, but the dps seems extremely underwhelming so far.  I am not sure why basically all of the specter traits are support based, why no variety?

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Shroud is pretty much useless besides the instant heal Quick tapping, and  Every. Single. Skill. In. Shroud Is interruptible, There’s no evades skills in shroud and every skill’s cast time is too long and too annoying.

The #5 Stability channel skill takes 10,000 years to cast

I like the heal Well, but hate the cast time on it, and the range. And it feels lackluster too. Give me swiftness or something while casting it.  

The shroud #3 fear skill doesn’t dash towards the target and often just goes where ever the heck it wants to and gets easily interrupted. 
 

Shadow form is pretty much useless, besides barrier and instant heal.  
 

You need a target to use steal. Like what? I was fine with this design on deadeye, but with Specter. No. This better be a bug. Can’t even give myself self swiftness if I wanted to. Pack runes may be the move for this. (For Power)
 

SCP/D #3 is pretty strong, but MISSES or is just simply way too slow. And why it doesn’t pierce or hit multiple targets when it’s LITERALLY 2 separate air wave or blades is beyond me

And HELLO? There’s no combo finishers with this spec?

Honestly.. I was pleasantly surprised that initiative wasn’t too big of an issue. Even while playing and enjoying CS/ SA/ SCP ( which I think I’ll main ). Power is definitely the way to go, while playing this spec. You’ve got good ability to sustain and but also dish out good dmg. Using trickery wasn’t really an issue. What I cared about more was how I can get more quickness and might onto this spec. ( I should’ve added more sigils into my bank , like rage sigil or and might sigil ) 

All in all. The specter is definitely going to be very strong when solo roaming and also a good support option in small group. It’s definitely a higher skill cap type of spec. I like it, despite my complaints above. If they fix those. And a few more QoLs it’ll be okay. But I will say Shroud form is absolutely useless. I almost always forget to go into it when fighting. And then at times when I have that no death trait on it pops me into shroud and I’m like, oh right.. I have this.
 

and MECHANIST IS BROKEN stoopid strong.

EDIT: I am also pleasantly content with the Shadow force gain rate and if we don’t take that trait that instantly eats our shadow force, then we can pretty much have a nice consistent level of shadow form (despite being useless, and only being used for the dash and fear)

EDIT: And I appreciate the velocity of the auto attack despite the autoattack chain being bugged. The AA seems very fluid, and can deceptively sneak in a #3 on Scp/D. Increase the velocity on the #3 Scp/D and it'll be golden . It's super satisfying to AA in my opinion. Scp/P definitely the weaker of the 2. 

Edited by AikijinX.6258
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19 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Shroud is pretty much useless besides the instant heal. Quick tapping and  Every. Single. Skill. In. Shroud Is interruptible.
 

There’s no evades,

the #5 Stability channel skill is 10,000 years precast.  

the shroud #3 fear skill doesn’t dash towards the target and often just goes where ever the heck it wants to and gets easily interrupted. 
 

Shadow form is pretty much useless, besides barrier and instant heal.  
 

You need a target to use steal. Like what? I was fine with this design on deadeye, but with Specter. No. This better be a bug. Can’t even give myself self swiftness if I wanted to. Pack runes may be the move for this. (For Power)
 

SCP/D #3 is pretty strong, but MISSES or is just simply way too slow. And why it doesn’t pierce or hit multiple targets when it’s LITERALLY 2 separate air wave or blades is beyond me

And HELLO? There’s no combo finishers with this spec?

Honestly.. I was pleasantly surprised that initiative wasn’t too big of an issue. Even while playing and enjoying CS/ SA/ SCP ( which I think I’ll main ). Power is definitely the way to go, while playing this spec. You’ve got good ability to sustain and but also dish out good dmg. Using trickery wasn’t really an issue. What I cared about more was how I can get more quickness and might onto this spec. ( I should’ve added more sigils into my bank , like rage sigil or and might sigil ) 

All in all. The specter is definitely going to be very strong when solo roaming and also a good support option in small group. It’s definitely a higher skill cap type of spec. I like it, despite my complaints above. If they fix those. And a few more QoLs it’ll be okay. But I will say Shroud form is absolutely useless. I almost always forget to go into it when fighting. And then at times when I have that no death trait on it pops me into shroud and I’m like, oh right.. I have this.
 

and MECHANIST IS BROKEN stoopid strong.

I ran a perma-stealth build. You don't break stealth spamming sc 3 on an ally or sc 2.

shroud 2 and 5 are blast finishers. I tend to throw a smoke field on my ally to prepare for blasting it. You can blast with shroud 2 pretty easy. Shroud 5 requires you to cast it, leave shroud and then create the smoke field. The goal isn't really to keep allies stealthed but to proc the barrier from stealthing them.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaQAqlFwCZbMR2JeWXnA-z5YXEVnAqPA

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Okay, my worries about scepter being annoying to use is not there, it luckily prioritizes enemies even in a mob unless you purposefully left click someone which makes it much more usable in combat.

However, both dual skills cannot be used if you use action combat, you get a message saying you have an invalid target even if you have them highlighted.

Overall feel and kit is solid, I'd say this is so far the most balanced and enjoyable spec so far, also I found that with the alacrity wells in conjunction with Kleptomaniac means that Initiative is often not too much of a problem. It still feels somewhat crippling, but it isn't god awful. I am unable to test how it feels in top end combat however.

Edit: Oh, and Scepter/None number 3 only attacks once, not three times like it says in the tooltip.

Edited by Esorono.1039
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10 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

I ran a perma-stealth build. You don't break stealth spamming sc 3 on an ally or sc 2.

shroud 2 and 5 are blast finishers. I tend to throw a smoke field on my ally to prepare for blasting it. You can blast with shroud 2 pretty easy. Shroud 5 requires you to cast it, leave shroud and then create the smoke field. The goal isn't really to keep allies stealthed but to proc the barrier from stealthing them.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaQAqlFwCZbMR2JeWXnA-z5YXEVnAqPA

See I didn’t even realize or care to look at those skills, because just playing with them, I was disgusted. Didn’t bother looking at the tool tip. But thanks for the tip! 

 

15 minutes ago, Monarc.9726 said:

It can also be used as a condi cleanse/heal with Hungering Darkness, but in terms of the skills, yeah it's useless. 

Yeah That’s true.. shadow shroud is just so disappointing. But Specter as a whole, I was pleasantly content with.

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And do we just not have any underwater Specter utility? Do necro’s or chrono’s not have access to their Wells underwater? (I main Thief and nothing else, so I don’t know) If they also have this problem then I’ll accept this. But we lose literally all of our utility underwater

Edited by AikijinX.6258
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I love my Deadeye, but this new one.  I tried my usual test of fighting Hydras and I got bored just spamming abilities trying to find something to do some actual damage.  Sure the Hydra basically couldn't hurt me, but I was basically just flicking my finger in it's ears as far as damage went.

 

Clearly I need a build or a rotation or something.  Because I just don't get it.  Compared to mechanist which is press F1 to own.

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Specter is something very new and unique, wide for learning and fun to play. But it is also not having enough quality of life tools to target people properly and 300 sec cd trait is like why? I love idea of it giving barrier to allies which makes them do torment for you, very cool mechanic, i love it. 

Idea of it is very cool but i don't think it will ever replace any aoe support. You need to bring some content that will make single target support viable more than aoe standard supports.

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I am absolutely amazed with Specter overall. The scepter is really good as a weapon here too, but what I really like is Consuming Shadows as a support option. I just recently did a session of Dragonstorm (which my client died halfway through dodging Jormag's laser) and the build I was running was:

  • Sword/Pistol - Shortbow
  • Marauder/Diviner
  • Deadly Arts 2-3-2
  • Trick 3-1-2
  • Sp 3-3-3
  • Well of Gloom/Bounty/Tears/Silence Thieves Guild

Wow. Absolutely wow. The amount of Alacrity uptime was incredible. It was easy to have it remain in the double digits on everyone I placed my wells on. Siphon had such a low CD, between that and Wells my Shadow Force filled up quick. I barely used any initiative and I felt like I was contributing. The rotation I fell into was using wells and Siphon until SF filled and then I went into it for a few seconds to deal a few attacks. I took this time to check heal numbers because I have no idea how shroud works (I don't play necro very much lol) and found Consuming Shadows to be my most favorite trait in the game right now. Consistently dropping out of Shadow Shroud early allowed me to heal and provide massive barriers to those around me over 5k. I will be using my Deadeye gear for this spec specifically because wells and Consuming Shadows is enough for base support in general content and then develop something more serious on the side.

Overall the Specter's damage is relegated to core, which I personally believe is fine for a spec that focuses heavily on support. Most of the damage is on Shroud because Scepter skills lack both strike and condition damage. The level of access to alacrity and Quickness is divine. Mobile wells was a great design choice so far. That said...

PLEASE BE GENTLE WITH THE NERF BAT ON MY WELLS AND CONSUMING SHADOW IF YOU DECIDE TO TONE THEM DOWN. THANKS. :classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin:

Edited by Zacchary.6183
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I like the theme and niche of the Specter but after playing it a bit it's clear it needs a LOT of work. Functionally it is a perfectly fine support spec with a couple unique twists and overall a good addition to thief. However it's clunky in several places and generally feels like it's trying to do too many things at once.

 

Before I get into what I don't like and would like to see changed about the spec I'd like to talk about what I do like. The scepter itself is a very interesting weapon with it's focus on having dual functionality for ally targeting. The #2 skill could be more interesting and needs more "oomph" to justify it's place and initiative cost, but otherwise the weapon is quite good and interesting imo. Similarly the wells are very cool utilities, and while some could stand to be a stronger they, on the whole are quite good.

 

Now, what I feel like really isn't working for the spec is Shadow Shroud. It's a knock off necro shroud and it's not doing this spec any favors. On the one hand, I see what they were aiming for with it, after all the (resource) force -> hit point mechanic is a great way to give the feel and functionality of the classic GW1 Shadow Form tanky Assassin. On the other hand, effectively copy pasting a necro shroud onto thief, #3 skill with fear and all, is leaving this part of the class feeling very disjointed, especially given that there's a whole secondary mechanic at play here with the tethering to an ally mechanic.

 

Imo the shroud skills don't feel very good on thief because for 1) they're cooldown based weapon skills on a class that has a separate mechanic for its weapon skills and  2) the skills themselves have simultaneous functionality with the tethered ally that makes them awkward to use. If you're using shroud to be offensive it's awkward to blow heals and condi-cleanses to use your rotation and if you're using it to support it's awkward to throw around impactful cc and damage to trigger a heal. The tether mechanic itself is not without fault, namely that forcing a core mechanic to rely on having allies nearby at all times seriously hurts the fun when trying to play this spec solo.

 

I see a solution where we can make these mechanics both more versatile and simple. To start we need to get rid of the copy pasted necro skills and move the focus of the Shadow Shroud to the tether mechanic, the resource to hit point mechanic can stay.  To facilitate the focus on the tether mechanic Siphon would cease to be ally targetable. Activating Shadow Shroud would now initiate the tether and you can choose to attach the tether to an ally granting them an amount of pulsing barrier or to an enemy pulsing torment onto them. Additionally Shadow Shroud would swap out your utility skill bar for a series of skills that impart effects onto you and the target of your tether as well as creatures in the path of the tether itself. This allows Specter to maintain it's focus on single target support while both not hindering solo play and also rewarding clever positioning to catch additional targets in the tether's path to maximize your damage and/or support. 

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2 hours ago, eduminator.7845 said:

As a  main thief with +5k hours played I just can say that the new specter is a #@#124 piece of sh#@1t.

No way of doing dmg even if you got condi dmg, shtty heal. Please delete all and make a new spec with GS

Not sure how you are not getting any damage out of Specter. 

Without trying hard at all I managed to get 36k DPS out of this thing without Allies to share Spider, Skale and Rot Wallow Venoms to - meaning this will likely easily break 40-45k DPS.

 

Likewise as Support, Specter can basically perma full health full barrier a 5 player group through just about anything (~3k AoE Healing/Barrier per second + on demand >25k burst heal with 100% conversion to Barrier for overheal) while upkeeping 100% Quickness (although that one is finnicky and excludes self), Alacrity and Fury, all while still pulling reasonable DPS via Rot Wallows, and having access to Portal Blink Skips as Plaguedoctor/Viper Hybrid Support/DPS (+ all the single target tether/targeted stuff) - it's basically a Core Necro, Support Scourge, Quickness Harbinger and Alac Chrono combined into one spec. 

 

It's a shame Specter is so buggy, especially with Action Cam, making it pretty hard to get the most out of it in this Beta, but this already looks pretty kitten broken. 

Edited by Asum.4960
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Wow, I play for fun but here some people seem to live from how good or bad the character feels to them...

 

The concept is awesome, and the Purple, it feels like a specter and love it, this is subjective but I don't give a ****, keep the purple lol

My real issues are:

1 - Combat Camera Bug = A lot of time the Dual skill warns there is no target, an even the Skil 1 from Scepter doesn't Auto Attack

2 - Solo experience: The spec is IMO really good and love the concept but I feel I will be forced 90% of the time to switch between templates for other Traits instead Specter since the gain from it playing alone is minimal and almost useless compared to even my Core Thief (I play Daredevil and Core Thief, yeah, in two accounts)

3 - A lot of upgrades from other Trait Lines seems to not be working properly a lot of time with Siphon (Steal) and it is annoying

4 - Dual Wielding: Maybe it's only me but I feel there is a huge incompatibility to play Scepter+Dagger, I am still adjusting but feels weird and I end up using Scepter + Pistol or going Dual Dagger anyway (specially playing alone)

5 - Icons/Animations: Some icons and animations I think need a rework but that is quite subjective compared to the other stuff

Edited by Okaerin.3145
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I only did a bit of testing with this in claw of jormag and the raid practice golem. I was more testing it for support than damage so I can't comment on how balanced that is.
The single target super support feels pretty unique to me. I do enjoy playing support characters and I like a few things with how this was built. The venom that lets your heal target apply torment for you allowing you to still contribute to the fight while healing is great. I also liked the trait that turned siphon to a res with a 33% health revive boost, picking up downed people almost instantly. The scepter skills were pretty good though I do think that /p outshines /d by quite a bit.
The issues I had have been statedalready. I also encountered the issue of dual skills not having a target but didn't know that was because of the action camera. Single target support can work but the game really wasn't made to have people clicking on allies which I assume is why all other healing professions using ground targeting or add healing to an action that targets an enemy or nothing at all (like heal on dodge). At least if you're in a party/squad you can click their names but with no equivalent of tab targeting for allies it makes it easy for an area to be too crowded to heal well. Also I have to add my vote that shadow shroud just doesn't feel worth while. The heals/barrier on a tethered ally just don't make up for what I was missing not having scepter. Most skills apply a condition and heal/barrier your tether, but auto attacking them with scepter also gives them barrier and has them apply the torment for you. I actually forgot shroud existed most of the time, the skills don't give much utility you don't already have and you lose access to your utility skills. Right now it feels like the best option is to trait to use shroud as a heal and jump in and out as quick as possible. Also the shadow force generation for initiative is insanely low, I actually had to stop and figure out what even generated it because it felt like nothing was happening, traiting for force on torment or spamming siphon just work so much better. Lastly eternal nights 3 target limit seems to be the first 3 it hits meaning your target may not even get it if they're body blocked, maybe change it to be your target + 2 allies it passes through.

Edited by XDeathShadowX.2619
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Played about 2 hours in sPVP mainly using scepter, some d/p

Shroud Mechanic

Shroud 3 Dawn's Repose - as a support skill is significantly curbed by its fixed distance, I can't support anyone in pvp if my ally must be at the exact end of my dash - would change this to a max range dash with an option of choosing any point between 0 and max range like dragon hunter f2 leap.  I hope the vine graphic is just a placeholder for its dash indication.

Shortbow five skill doesn't fill up the shroud meter once the match starts - should be rewarded for using such a high-cost initiative skill

Scepter

Scepter barrier output isn't so great and as a support given all the dps out there, I'll be a half-useful teammate, coupled with lackluster heals and no way to tell if rot wallow venom heals on life siphon (if traited) I'm better off using scepter as condi dps - which seems to work so far if you can get people to sit still and proc torment's secondary effect (I did have fun using basilisk venom for stun and devourer venom for immob for this reason).  Blowing initiative on a teammate for barriers that'll be focused down in a teamfight won't really serve much than to put me in a worse position.

scepter 2 is lackluster vs all other #2 slot skills for thief (no leap, immob, no whirl, no shadowstep) and arguably not as on par as other skill #2 for any other profession using scepter, it's not worth blowing all the initiative especially given the fleeting nature of barrier and the longer initiative generation time.

There's no comboing with scepter so scepter/pistol will leave you with no stealth escapes.

In short - taking scepter and specter trait line will leave cripple your mobility and escape options as thief, and support wise you virtually only grant barriers - no aura support like tempest, no traited procs like barrier scourges (would really really like some barrier traited skills)

Utilities

Didn't take wells except the well elite, people seemed to dodge it fairly well, no one really got sucked in or punished, did have fun shadow stepping onto the clocktower ledge and dropping it on the enemy though.  On initial impression could use a wider area or stronger pull or more pulses, doesn't seem as scary as gravity well.  None of the wells offer a stun-break so it's hard to justify taking a weak well that gives boons/aoe dmg/condi dmg vs. even roll for initiative or  shadow refuge. Kudos to the wells though, their effects look superb.

Traits

having barrier on stealth is nice but as a thief I'd rather have mobility and preemptive escape measures vs lackluster support with hindered mobility and escape options. Perhaps the additional barrier granted with stealth might turn the tide when stealth-stacking in spvp but only time will tell, and perhaps may not be worth it if you're sacrificing a trait-line.

Other Comparisons

specter d/p feels subpar vs daredevil d/p

Other Game Modes

PVE Wise - I don't see the need to take Specter at all vs a Machinst who can barrier, vigor, alac, might, fury, on mace and mech alone (On a side note maybe punish machinist for losing his mech, and a slight or no punish at all for skillful recall).  I can keep up permanent alacrity with 3 wells and harrier gear but as a specialization who can only do personal barrier generation I don't see myself playing specter a lot.  The promise of single-target support sounds great, but it feels like a mismatch between gw1 flavor/mechanics put into a gw2 system.

WvW

I know on the stream the dev joked about taking specters in WVW but given it's subpar healing and barrier output why not just surround yourself with Necros unless you want to have constant stealth.

As my initial impression things could use some sprucing, the theme is there but mechanically specter doesn't feel as consistent and seems out-of-place.  It's salvagable but could've been more unique like lore-wise somewhere down the line assassin and ritualist merged and they provided some sorta unique shadow buff similar to like how weapon spells granted special effects on ally-target or enemy-target (e.g. enemy is blinded x 5 per each weapon swing).  In the end though I don't see myself picking up this elite spec in either spvp or any level of pve (map meta, raid, fractal, strike missions, casual map explore) as other professions outshine the specters role, and other thief specs have a more impactful flavor.  

Edited by Echo Shot.6479
Polish for more coherance and clarity
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Weapon combo is fun, but it's clunky, slow, and very loud obnoxious sound effect. Sc/P #3 teleport to friend and teleport away from enemy feels like a hindrance, maybe remove the teleport function and apply a condition/boon if the skill lands then activate its 2nd chained skill.

Sc/D #3 should just be one skill and instant velocity of projectile.

For it being a support spec, if you get immobolized, the wells should remove the movement impairing effects baseline. Or maybe resist all movement impairing effects in shadow shroud because the entire feature is kinda useless and easily interruptable. 

Shroud skill #2 should be a larger circle, #3 should be a real dodge and fear for its entire animation of running, #4 and #5 are just completely shrug shoulders. Long cast times and melee range skills since you're a thief, squishy and scepter doesnt seem to bode well while being melee range for anything other than stacking with players.

Make shadowstep to wells a 2nd button press, it's risky to put yourself in some situations when trying to be tactical with it.

Edited by Laosduude.1690
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Brief take from some wvw.

Overall it plays like you have a 500ms ping. Nothing is quick and snappy which is usually what makes thief fun. For instance, I would at least change wells to port instantly but delay the effect.

Shroud seems unbalanced. Skill #4 has maybe too much value (and too little range). If you enter shroud and press 3/4 or 4/5 and leave, your shroud seems to last forever while you get most of the benefit.

This spec lasts FOREVER in 1v1 - the sustain is too high. Conversely it dies way too FAST when even slightly outnumbered. Scepter/Pistol trailblazer (kitten/SA/Specter) is definitely the worst in that regard. Unfortunately, despite this being the 'intended' build, it plays like a meme. You can't die and you can only kill if they lack cleanse.

Power Sword/Dagger Sword/Dagger (Acro/Trick) is reasonably balanced. Shroud 4 can hit hard if you make it connect. The base level healing from shroud ally tether is still pretty good. Unfortunately it requires quick pockets/energy sigils to survive well. Because of that, the damage numbers feel a bit lower than what I am used to on thief but not egregiously so.

Edited by ens.9854
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