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On 10/28/2021 at 1:32 AM, Linken.6345 said:

There is a difference, I guess they just want more of the same with new rewards.

Luckily EoD comes with more open world content than the instanced one, so he'll get more of what he wants. Complaining about the expansion ALSO having some limited content he doesn't like is extremely self-centered and straight up unreasonable.

 

Yes, facts you dislike are super confusing 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Sobx.1758
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You have to interact with *gasp* other people 😨

The kiddie mode is the current version of strikes. Minus boneskinner and whisper, you can grab any 10 players with any build and succeed. If you want 5 man content there's dungeons and tier 1 fractals

Yes, not very promising.  Instead of making them more accessible, they add a CM mode that is  like a Raid boss.  Where is the part that is supposed to draw more players into Strike Missions? I was hop

13 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Story mode has generally no replay value beyond the initial clear and the notion that getting thrown into a room full with vets that have 150k+ HP is appealing for someone with 1-2k DPS for lackluster rewards seems rather naive to me.

I'm pretty sure they will be looking into internal metrics for Shiverpeak pass after Return to Bjora Marches concludes. There was a hefty 7 mystic clover reward to entice people to do it.

Your example of 150K HP with 1K DPS means even a person doing 1K DPS only needs 3 minutes to complete it. More likely that a boss would have 1 million HP (weak enemy in Special Forces training Area) or 4 million (average enemy).

Shiverpeak Pass has ~11.7 Million Icebrood Construct ; Freezie strike is ~5.9 Million.

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36 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Story mode has generally no replay value beyond the initial clear and the notion that getting thrown into a room full with vets that have 150k+ HP is appealing for someone with 1-2k DPS for lackluster rewards seems rather naive to me.

 

Just do normal strikes.  All of the vets with the LI requirements will likely be doing the CMs assuming that the developers do the rewards properly.

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I think the fact they're creating a natural progression into learning mechanics is good, it's definitely what raids are missing. What I'm confused by is that they didn't say the single IB saga currency was going to be convertable into the EoD currency, but the other way around. So do you want us to stop running IB sage strikes in the mean time as we can always go back? Also HoT LIs are convertible to LDs, so that's an inconsistency as well. You've usually been able to trade for the new system if you were playing the old. 

Also, IB saga strike rewards are mediocre at best. Ascended gear? I can get that from raids or fractals, much quicker mind you. I enjoy strikes more, but I feel very disincentivized to continue doing them after the announcement as they haven't said they're releasing anything new for IB saga rewards wise.

I'm also concerned about the fact they haven't detailed if EoD strike CMs will give LI/LD or something convertible into them. Currently though, just raiding, I feel very stretched thin as a player: I'm afriad if I stop raiding, I'll forget how to do the encounters properly, and I'm probably raiding more than is sustainable. I don't feel like they're giving me any kind of out on that, and so I'm wondering if I'll even have room to learn the EoD Cms given the number of different roles and encounters I'm already expected to know. And if I burn out, I might just play something else that hasn't hit the point of creating raids yet. 
 

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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6 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I think the fact they're creating a natural progression into learning mechanics is good, it's definitely what raids are missing. What I'm confused by is that they didn't say the single IB saga currency was going to be convertable into the EoD currency, but the other way around. So do you want us to stop running IB sage strikes in the mean time as we can always go back? Also HoT LIs are convertible to LDs, so that's an inconsistency as well. You've usually been able to trade for the new system if you were playing the old. 

Also, IB saga strike rewards are mediocre at best. Ascended gear? I can get that from raids or fractals, much quicker mind you. I enjoy strikes more, but I feel very disincentivized to continue doing them after the announcement as they haven't said they're releasing anything new for IB saga rewards wise.

I'm also concerned about the fact they haven't detailed if EoD strike CMs will give LI/LD or something convertible into them. Currently though, just raiding, I feel very stretched thin as a player: I'm afriad if I stop raiding, I'll forget how to do the encounters properly, and I'm probably raiding more than is sustainable. I don't feel like they're giving me any kind of out on that, and so I'm wondering if I'll even have room to learn the EoD Cms given the number of different roles and encounters I'm already expected to know. 
 

Well they want the new rewards to be rewarded for the new currency otherwise old timers will have all rewards on day one.

Only reason you can convert a limited nr of li to ld is because wing 5 used to award li then when the next path of fire wing came they changed it to lds and made it so that people could catch up on the lds they should have gotten from when w5 first released released.

Note tho you can convert unlimited ld to li.

The IBS strikes are a sure fire way to get ascended gear without rng.

You could get them in raids sure but some part of the population feel it is to hard for them so the shiverpeak pass golem is a good compromise.

I see no reason for EoD cm strikes to award Li/Ld, it will probabely award its own currency like fractal cms that have Unstable Fractal Essence

Edited by Linken.6345
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1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well they want the new rewards to be rewarded for the new currency otherwise old timers will have all rewards on day one.

Only reason you can convert a limited nr of li to ld is because wing 5 used to award li then when the next path of fire wing came they changed it to lds and made it so that people could catch up on the lds they should have gotten from when w5 first released released.

Note tho you can convert unlimited ld to li.


Interesting, I didn't know W5 used to be LI. But my question/ask about Ib sage strikes still stands. Why would anyone trade for them? 

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1 minute ago, Firebeard.1746 said:


Interesting, I didn't know W5 used to be LI. But my question/ask about Ib sage strikes still stands. Why would anyone trade for them? 

New players that have not run ibs strikes over and over can get rewards faster after they got what they like from the new strikes.

Thats the only reason I see for it since there aint really a sink for the crystals and shards now.

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4 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

The difference before was that the previous version of their stepping stones spread across various content. With the new strikes, players will be able to learn the mechanics, and then step it up to “raid level” within the same strike. 
 

Whether players have any incentive to do so is another question. 

Two things are going to happen with Strike CMs.
1. MOST people won't improve because they don't actually want to improve. They just want the rewards for pressing 1 and strike CMs will really be no exception.
2. Those that already are experienced raiders will find a way to hard carry the content themselves. (Aka. Heal Scourge for Boneskinner.)

Ultimately to me, this is the wrong direction. They shouldn't be putting resources into Strike CMs and instead just make a new raid wing. Strike CMs are just raids with extra steps and even if they are a fun encounter, will be void any story or feeling.

Just the feeling of walking into Mythwright Gambit has an ambiance to it. It made you feel amazing talking to Zommoros the lord of legendaries to help him out of a jam. That is gone with strikes as you walk into a room, and fight a boss then have to spend many minutes back in another series of loading screens. Raids are fluid, Strikes are clunky at best.

Edited by Delita Silverburg.8632
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30 minutes ago, Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

Two things are going to happen with Strike CMs.
1. MOST people won't improve because they don't actually want to improve. They just want the rewards for pressing 1 and strike CMs will really be no exception.
2. Those that already are experienced raiders will find a way to hard carry the content themselves. (Aka. Heal Scourge for Boneskinner.)

Ultimately to me, this is the wrong direction. They shouldn't be putting resources into Strike CMs and instead just make a new raid wing. Strike CMs are just raids with extra steps and even if they are a fun encounter, will be void any story or feeling.

Just the feeling of walking into Mythwright Gambit has an ambiance to it. It made you feel amazing talking to Zommoros the lord of legendaries to help him out of a jam. That is gone with strikes as you walk into a room, and fight a boss then have to spend many minutes back in another series of loading screens. Raids are fluid, Strikes are clunky at best.

It's funny you use W6 as your example and it's literally the least popular wing. And believe it or not, raiders try to hard carry too sometimes. Ever been in an EXP group full of clueless people? 

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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2 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I think the fact they're creating a natural progression into learning mechanics is good, it's definitely what raids are missing. What I'm confused by is that they didn't say the single IB saga currency was going to be convertable into the EoD currency, but the other way around. So do you want us to stop running IB sage strikes in the mean time as we can always go back? Also HoT LIs are convertible to LDs, so that's an inconsistency as well. You've usually been able to trade for the new system if you were playing the old. 

Also, IB saga strike rewards are mediocre at best. Ascended gear? I can get that from raids or fractals, much quicker mind you. I enjoy strikes more, but I feel very disincentivized to continue doing them after the announcement as they haven't said they're releasing anything new for IB saga rewards wise.

I'm also concerned about the fact they haven't detailed if EoD strike CMs will give LI/LD or something convertible into them. Currently though, just raiding, I feel very stretched thin as a player: I'm afriad if I stop raiding, I'll forget how to do the encounters properly, and I'm probably raiding more than is sustainable. I don't feel like they're giving me any kind of out on that, and so I'm wondering if I'll even have room to learn the EoD Cms given the number of different roles and encounters I'm already expected to know. And if I burn out, I might just play something else that hasn't hit the point of creating raids yet. 
 

https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/strikes

  • Bears, daily = 65g/hour   , ~3g
  • WoJ , daily = 39g/hour    , ~3g
  • Boneskinner, daily = 37g/hour , ~3g
  • Fraenir = 36g/hour , ~3g
  • Shiverpeak Pass = 29g/hour , ~2g


Strikes are more profitable than raids unless you can make a squad and also 1 pull in a comparable time (30 min a wing they had listed before).
https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/raids
W5 =14g
Weekly 5 CMs ~ 13g
W4 = 13g
W1 =<13g
W6 = <12g
W7 = <12g
W3 = <11g
W2 = <11g
All this tanked after the infusions dropped in value.

What this undoubtedly solves is selling instances.
========================================

Also the above person saying that it is a boss fight in a room... Forging Steel is a strike mission too.

Edited by Infusion.7149
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So the saga continues.

 

1. Players who are not interested in the more difficult content (which is fine), or who don't manage out of their own efforts to advance far enough to be minimum competent (which is unfortunate), will still feel as though looking through a window at all those nice rewards they feel others are not allowing them to have (which is untrue, the only one holding one back is oneself).

 

2. Players who do enjoy challenging content, well let's wait and see how well strike CMs actually deliver but even then, this would have to be a huge step up from current strikes versus raids to match the quality of raid design.

 

To one of both groups: it's been 7 years. There are tons of guides, discords, videos, wiki sites, beginner builds, resources, etc. Learn to improve on your own and socialize and make friends and/or connections. Arenanet is not going to do that for you. There is no magical "oh this content will get me ready" recipe (and in fact there is such content in game already, some players just don't take the timer to reflect and improve). It will always be "work" and effort in regards to learning and improving. 

 

As to the other group, let's keep it low with the amount of copium smoked. Maybe strike CMs will deliver, maybe not. Things can often be made to sound better than they are.

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Quote

Through this method, more players can engage with the content we build at a difficulty level they feel is comfortable.

Quote

Any End of Dragons Strike Missions you complete will reward currency to be spent on Strike Mission-specific rewards, including any unique drops from the Strike Missions.

Quote

Normal difficulty Strike Missions are intended to be an entry point into the world of 10-player content in Guild Wars 2. 


Seems to me they‘re really pushing accessibility this time around (complete 180 degree direction change from raids initially).

From the 2nd quote it seems like you‘ll be able to get any reward you want, even if you‘re only able to do the easiest strike in EoD. Over time you‘ll get enough currency, without having to do the strikes/difficulties you dislike.

Good to see Anet trying to reach more players with more difficulty options, as that has been a problem in the past with this type of content.
DRMs were a start to introduce more people to instanced group content, this seems to be the next step.

Overall a step in the right direction. Hopefully the normal modes are actually more accessible to the broader community.

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5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So the saga continues.

 

1. Players who are not interested in the more difficult content (which is fine), or who don't manage out of their own efforts to advance far enough to be minimum competent (which is unfortunate), will still feel as though looking through a window at all those nice rewards they feel others are not allowing them to have (which is untrue, the only one holding one back is oneself).

 

2. Players who do enjoy challenging content, well let's wait and see how well strike CMs actually deliver but even then, this would have to be a huge step up from current strikes versus raids to match the quality of raid design.

 

To one of both groups: it's been 7 years. There are tons of guides, discords, videos, wiki sites, beginner builds, resources, etc. Learn to improve on your own and socialize and make friends and/or connections. Arenanet is not going to do that for you. There is no magical "oh this content will get me ready" recipe (and in fact there is such content in game already, some players just don't take the timer to reflect and improve). It will always be "work" and effort in regards to learning and improving. 

 

As to the other group, let's keep it low with the amount of copium smoked. Maybe strike CMs will deliver, maybe not. Things can often be made to sound better than they are.

Sadly enough, this cannot be more true.

 

As long as Anet does nothing to work towards the skill gap and integrate build/battle basics into the new player experience, player experience will continue to split between open world and instanced contents.

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On 10/27/2021 at 9:55 PM, Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

Two things are going to happen with Strike CMs.
1. MOST people won't improve because they don't actually want to improve. They just want the rewards for pressing 1 and strike CMs will really be no exception.
2. Those that already are experienced raiders will find a way to hard carry the content themselves. (Aka. Heal Scourge for Boneskinner.)

Ultimately to me, this is the wrong direction. They shouldn't be putting resources into Strike CMs and instead just make a new raid wing. Strike CMs are just raids with extra steps and even if they are a fun encounter, will be void any story or feeling.

Just the feeling of walking into Mythwright Gambit has an ambiance to it. It made you feel amazing talking to Zommoros the lord of legendaries to help him out of a jam. That is gone with strikes as you walk into a room, and fight a boss then have to spend many minutes back in another series of loading screens. Raids are fluid, Strikes are clunky at best.

 

What I think you are missing here is the development resource/release frequency. The difference between Strike CM bosses and a raid wing is that they actually have potential to release a substantial number of Strikes (aka 5 for launch, who knows maybe 5 more in the rest of calendar year 2022). This is because they get value out of the assets for the story. They're making these bosses/encounters anyway, so might as well make a scaling difficulty (i.e. story mode, regular strike, strike CM).

 

Now what you get correctly is that we'll be missing the little things about a full raid wing (new story, new zone, etc)...but IMO that is something that ANET and most raiders would be okay sacrificing given the increase in actual encounters. Basically they are banking on people liking the 10 bosses per year without the "little things' as opposed to 1 raid wing every 1-2 years with the little things added, and I for one agree with that. 

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:36 PM, Tyncale.1629 said:

Yes, not very promising.  Instead of making them more accessible, they add a CM mode that is  like a Raid boss.  Where is the part that is supposed to draw more players into Strike Missions? I was hoping for simple, 5-player versions of those bosses, with less currency as rewards but still possible to earn enough over time so you could buy the rewards from the vendor.  Where's my Kiddy mode? 🙂

More accessible? Making them to NOT need to even press the dodge key isn't accessible enough?

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4 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Sadly enough, this cannot be more true.

 

As long as Anet does nothing to work towards the skill gap and integrate build/battle basics into the new player experience, player experience will continue to split between open world and instanced contents.

If players are stuck in endgame with a skill/knowledge base insufficient to break into entry level group content, no amount of tutorial is going to help them.  Their priorities don't include reading up on buildcraft, practicing rotations, and all of the things players who don't struggle with endgame content do to improve.  They'll ignore most of the information provided as it isn't relevant to them.  The best you can do is give them pre-fab builds that have good synergy (the change to celestial stats from the booster was a good call!) and let them continue reading the manual upside down.

Honestly, GW2 is the same as any other MMO.  It's a game designed with a level of depth that you can spend years delving into.  You can only do so much to make that amount of information accessible at a glance.  Other MMOs have the same problem and excessive tutorials don't solve it.  They just make the game more annoying to everyone.

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11 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

If players are stuck in endgame with a skill/knowledge base insufficient to break into entry level group content, no amount of tutorial is going to help them.  Their priorities don't include reading up on buildcraft, practicing rotations, and all of the things players who don't struggle with endgame content do to improve.  They'll ignore most of the information provided as it isn't relevant to them.  The best you can do is give them pre-fab builds that have good synergy (the change to celestial stats from the booster was a good call!) and let them continue reading the manual upside down.

Honestly, GW2 is the same as any other MMO.  It's a game designed with a level of depth that you can spend years delving into.  You can only do so much to make that amount of information accessible at a glance.  Other MMOs have the same problem and excessive tutorials don't solve it.  They just make the game more annoying to everyone.

Yup, if individual players don't want to improve then it's their choice and they should stop pretending it's the game's fault. Another example of that was someone recently trying to argue about people wanting to run dungeons not being aware of the existance of lfg. Meanwhile... First dungeon unlock? Level 30. Literal pop-up informing the players about existance of lfg? Yup, level 29. 🙄

It's ok if someone doesn't want to improve, it's their call. What's not ok is constantly pretending that it's game's or other players' fault specifically because they want every reward in the game in auto-play level of content.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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On 10/27/2021 at 9:56 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/strikes

  • Bears, daily = 65g/hour   , ~3g
  • WoJ , daily = 39g/hour    , ~3g
  • Boneskinner, daily = 37g/hour , ~3g
  • Fraenir = 36g/hour , ~3g
  • Shiverpeak Pass = 29g/hour , ~2g


Strikes are more profitable than raids unless you can make a squad and also 1 pull in a comparable time (30 min a wing they had listed before).
https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/raids
W5 =14g
Weekly 5 CMs ~ 13g
W4 = 13g
W1 =<13g
W6 = <12g
W7 = <12g
W3 = <11g
W2 = <11g
All this tanked after the infusions dropped in value.

What this undoubtedly solves is selling instances.
========================================

Also the above person saying that it is a boss fight in a room... Forging Steel is a strike mission too.

Those numbers assume crafting boreal weapons, which is really cut-throat in the economy and I've stopped doing it for that reason. Those numbers aren't 100% accurate (in fact, they're no where close to reality). Also if you care about Legendary Armor/ring progression, raiding is superior as you don't need to supplement with another game mode. 

If you think strikes are better, knock yourself out. I only do them for fun, more often with a particular guild now. Sometimes still pugging. But those numbers would put them at literally the best gold farm in the game, and I have never seen a group for just farming them straight, so I imagine the number of people actually farming them for gold is VERY low given the reasons I gave above. There's plenty of gold farmers and bears are very easy. If you seriously believe those numbers, I don't know how to help you. 

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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15 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Those numbers assume crafting boreal weapons, which is really cut-throat in the economy and I've stopped doing it for that reason. Those numbers aren't 100% accurate (in fact, they're no where close to reality). Also if you care about Legendary Armor/ring progression, raiding is superior as you don't need to supplement with another game mode. 

If you think strikes are better, knock yourself out. I only do them for fun, more often with a particular guild now. Sometimes still pugging. But those numbers would put them at literally the best gold farm in the game, and I have never seen a group for just farming them straight, so I imagine the number of people actually farming them for gold is VERY low given the reasons I gave above. There's plenty of gold farmers and bears are very easy. If you seriously believe those numbers, I don't know how to help you. 

Use the insta-buy function on fast farming. I do strikes daily as well as T4 fractals.

Profit per ingot is on average 9-10s
https://fast.farming-community.eu/item-conversions/eitrite-ingot

Even the insta-buy puts Voice and Claw at 20g/hour on repeat and 49g/hour for daily.

I don't care about Legendary Armor/Ring because I do those on my own time and have double conflux + coalescence and 4 sets of legendary armor with enough LI in bank for even more sets + 15K skirmish tickets.



 

Edited by Infusion.7149
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8 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Use the insta-buy function on fast farming. I do strikes daily as well as T4 fractals.

Profit per ingot is on average 9-10s
https://fast.farming-community.eu/item-conversions/eitrite-ingot

Even the insta-buy puts Voice and Claw at 20g/hour on repeat and 49g/hour for daily.

 



 

The number of instant insta-buys does not support that long-term for the player base. I'm sure after 1 hr of farming a single group would tank the economy and it would literally take months for it to recover at that. I see maybe 7 orders above 3.5g for axes. It costs about 3g to craft, after TP cut and whatnot, you're better off vending your Eitrite after those 7 are filled. More people who play strikes have been vending their eitrite than using it, and trust me if they stopped, it'd be the same problem. The data in the TP shows this. You're ignoring yet another part fo your plan. Like I said, knock yourself out if you believe this crap, but don't come crying to me when you have trouble selling your weapons. 

Crafting - Calculator - gw2efficiency

This is just like how you try to handwave away how quickly you can get LI compared to tickets/ascended shards of glory. 

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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1 minute ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

The number of instant insta-buys does not support that long-term for the player base. I'm sure after 1 hr of farming a single group would tank the economy and it would literally take months for it to recover at that. I see maybe 7 orders on 1 weapons above 3.5g for axes. It costs about 3g to craft, after TP cut and whatnot, you're better off vending after those 7 are filled. More people who play strikes have been vending their eitrite than using it, and trust me if they stopped, it'd be the same problem. The data in the TP shows this. You're ignoring yet another part fo your plan. Like I said, knock yourself out if you believe this crap, but don't come crying to me when you have trouble selling your weapons. 

Crafting - Calculator - gw2efficiency

GW2efficiency counts the cost for each eitrite ingot. Are you trolling?

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On 10/27/2021 at 10:36 AM, Tyncale.1629 said:

Yes, not very promising.  Instead of making them more accessible, they add a CM mode that is  like a Raid boss.  Where is the part that is supposed to draw more players into Strike Missions? I was hoping for simple, 5-player versions of those bosses, with less currency as rewards but still possible to earn enough over time so you could buy the rewards from the vendor.  Where's my Kiddy mode? 🙂

Honest question:

How much easier do they need to be?

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