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So - The Thief elite spec is just necromancer, but better


Kuulpb.5412

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Everything a necro could do, they gave to thief, but better.  Necro can heal 7% hp when leaving shroud?  - Thieves can heal 100% hp.  Necromancers can avoid death at the cost of shroud?  Thieves can do that and it's a Minor trait. Thieves get Wells and an Elite well which Necromancers STILL lack. - I wasn't going to come back to this game after harbinger reveal, but now i'm actively against it as they're just  giving other professions what necromancer had.

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Try it.  No, really.  Try playing the Specter.

#1: The Shadow Force generation is way too slow.

#2: While in Shadow Shroud, your skills are largely terrible and very slow moving.

#3: The scepter has forced movement, making it clumsy and dangerous to use.

#4: Half of the wells are useless.  Random boons and random conditions with short durations don't actually serve much of a function.

#5: The only thing it does that vanilla thief doesn't is alacrity and some barrier application.

#6: Poor self-sustain and low HP pool means that it is surprisingly squishy.  You'll end up blowing your wells just to run away.

As it stands right now, the Specter is just an inferior knock-off of the necromancer.  Necro has it beat in PVP, WvW, and overworld PVE.  The ability to generate alacrity is nearly useless in structured PVE, because it only works on 5 targets.  

 

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55 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

As it stands right now, the Specter is just an inferior knock-off of the necromancer.

Pretty much this (and people saw it coming too). While the mechanist actually pulled off the mechanic it tried to copy the same just can't be said for the specter. Shadow Shroud feels weak and sluggish, limiting the number of the people it can support would be ok if the support it does were significantly better then the more widespread one from the other classes which is it not and worst of all it generally feels weak in soloplay due to A-Net making its support way to altruistic for no real reason.

Ironically I think the mechanist would have been better off with a customizable mech suit that, like a shroud, also absorbs damage while the thief should have gotten that "strong pet companion" (like a shadow demon or something) to "+1" when there are no other players around.

 

Edited by Tails.9372
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Depends on your context. I'd argue that for small group roaming, specter makes necro look pretty meh in many ways. 

I'll still play my necro, and core condi + specter is gonna be kittenous as hell,, but let's be real here.. Focused on single target, plaguedoctor specter provides more barrier in like a few autoattacks than we used to give AND it gives torment stacks to the linked target to apply to their enemies. Kinda baller for small group roam groups. 

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2 minutes ago, Bezerker.2379 said:

Depends on your context. I'd argue that for small group roaming, specter makes necro look pretty meh in many ways. 

I'll still play my necro, and core condi + specter is gonna be kittenous as hell,, but let's be real here.. Focused on single target, plaguedoctor specter provides more barrier in like a few autoattacks than we used to give AND it gives torment stacks to the linked target to apply to their enemies. Kinda baller for small group roam groups. 

I think this is a matter of point of view. You're valuing high amount of barrier in small group (ideally duo) while other can see this as trivial especially for a thief which is already a profession that excel at playing in small group. the point is that the thief don't leave it's "niche" with this spec, he don't step onto the area of expertise of the necromancer. Which mean that it's a thief with a shroud and isn't "better" than the necro, it's just a thief within the thief "niche".

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It's better or not, doesn't really matter. It' why we have choice. Lots of things are better than Necro in many ways. If they appeal to you, play them. I'm just happy Necro's didn't get a waste of a spec that focuses on healing single targets. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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Harbinger looks a lot better than specter atm. Good that I deleted my thief instead of my necro after PoF launch (scourge and deadeye both suck and a lack of time for the game forced me to make a decision). So I can not complain. 

But it seems ANet did it the other way around this time with the elite specs. None of them seems nearly as broken as the HoT and PoF specs have been at release. Some of the new specs are actually pretty weak. I guess ANet holds them all back in several aspects (low sustain, lack of burst, clumsiness etc.) since we will get some huge mobility creep in this expansion.

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6 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Try it.  No, really.  Try playing the Specter.

#1: The Shadow Force generation is way too slow.

#2: While in Shadow Shroud, your skills are largely terrible and very slow moving.

#3: The scepter has forced movement, making it clumsy and dangerous to use.

#4: Half of the wells are useless.  Random boons and random conditions with short durations don't actually serve much of a function.

#5: The only thing it does that vanilla thief doesn't is alacrity and some barrier application.

#6: Poor self-sustain and low HP pool means that it is surprisingly squishy.  You'll end up blowing your wells just to run away.

As it stands right now, the Specter is just an inferior knock-off of the necromancer.  Necro has it beat in PVP, WvW, and overworld PVE.  The ability to generate alacrity is nearly useless in structured PVE, because it only works on 5 targets.  

 

While I don't agree with it being a flat out better Necro in all aspects, I did have quite a difference experience to this. 

 

1. Especially with Larcenous Torment, I pretty much was able to almost max Shroud every ~8 seconds - unless you have mass add deaths around you or are camping Dagger AA as Necro, Specter has magnitudes better LF generation.

2. While I do agree that Shadow Shroud is a bit slow and clunky, it's frankly still better than Core at least, and it's still great to dip in (2,4,5,2) as DPS, followed up by a massive AoE heal and Barrier nuke every couple seconds while initiative regens. 

Even beyond Consume Shadows, it's a great defensive tool,  scaling 150% of health and degenerating at only 2% per second.

Core Shroud is 69% of HP and degenerates at 3% per second (4% PvP), and Reaper Shroud degenerates at 5% per second.

3. That I fully agree with, although much of it is also down to especially Measured Shot with Pistol being incredibly buggy right now and randomly teleporting the user around at extended ranges. I found Twilight Combo spam with dagger (and Deadly Arts poisons) the better DPS option at least anyway though, which doesn't come with forced movement.

4. I didn't find the Wells useless at all. Also they are not random, but rather boons and conditions not applied yet out of their roster. Even at the worst case they pulse Torment and Might, with Bounty being able to to give Support Specter ~50% Prot Uptime, some Resistance, etc. Well of Tears is the only pretty questionable one, but it's still a low CD Alacrity applier if Traited at least.

5. That's the underselling of the century though. Group Quickness, Alac, Fury, decent Prot and more healing and barrier than a support Scourge, all while using DPS Hybrid gear with Rot Wallows is a bit beyond "alacrity and some Barrier".

6. This also largely depends on gamemodes and I've only been testing PvE so far, but with Tormenting Runes, Shroud, Consume Shadows etc., Specter is many things, squishy, low in effective HP or low in self sustain all ain't one of them. 

 

All in all, while I don't think it can be compared as easily to Core, Reaper or Scourge nor does it seem reasonable to put one spec up against 3 in ability across modes, it is fairly close to Harbinger though, which felt like a Necro/Thief, compared to Specter being a Thief/Necro, and there I have to say Specter clearly pulled the superior card. 

 

The biggest and lowest draining Shroud added on Specter compared to losing Shroud and 50% HP on Harbinger. 

Likely about the same DPS, if not more for Specter (with allies to share Venoms to), both with ranged options, but Harbinger being more risky and limited due to being entirely bound to Projectiles. 

More debilitating conditions and frequent CC on Specter.

Obviously still vastly more mobility options on Specter. 

Specter is drastically more tanky and surviveable.

Much more interesting gameplayloop, skills (esp. Utilites) and Traits (imo), where Harbinger is mostly just pressing 1+2 in and out of Shroud with passive damage modifiers and non interactive Auras doing the work, Specter weaves quite naturally between bursting out Initiative and weaving into Shroud (if it weren't for the targeting and teleportation bugs), as well as having quite the build crafting potential via Traits etc.

And while it's boon support is more clunky (again, esp. with the current bugs), it's vastly superior to Harbinger as well, on top of offering incredibly potent healing if specced for, at much less personal damage loss due to intrinsic mechanics like Rot Wallow Venom. 

Other than ease of Use, I don't think there is a single Metric in which Harbinger beats out Specter.

Edited by Asum.4960
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1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

While I don't agree with it being a flat out better Necro in all aspects, I did have quite a difference experience to this. 

 

1. Especially with Larcenous Torment, I pretty much was able to almost max Shroud every ~8 seconds - unless you have mass add deaths around you or are camping Dagger AA as Necro, Specter has magnitudes better LF generation.

2. While I do agree that Shadow Shroud is a bit slow and clunky, it's frankly still better than Core at least, and it's still great to dip in (2,4,5,2) as DPS, followed up by a massive AoE heal and Barrier nuke every couple seconds while initiative regens. 

Even beyond Consume Shadows, it's a great defensive tool,  scaling 150% of health and degenerating at only 2% per second.

Core Shroud is 69% of HP and degenerates at 3% per second (4% PvP), and Reaper Shroud degenerates at 5% per second.

3. That I fully agree with, although much of it is also down to especially Measured Shot with Pistol being incredibly buggy right now and randomly teleporting the user around at extended ranges. I found Twilight Combo spam with dagger (and Deadly Arts poisons) the better DPS option at least anyway though, which doesn't come with forced movement.

4. I didn't find the Wells useless at all. Also they are not random, but rather boons and conditions not applied yet out of their roster. Even at the worst case they pulse Torment and Might, with Bounty being able to to give Support Specter ~50% Prot Uptime, some Resistance, etc. Well of Tears is the only pretty questionable one, but it's still a low CD Alacrity applier if Traited at least.

5. That's the underselling of the century though. Group Quickness, Alac, Fury, decent Prot and more healing and barrier than a support Scourge, all while using DPS Hybrid gear with Rot Wallows is a bit beyond "alacrity and some Barrier".

6. This also largely depends on gamemodes and I've only been testing PvE so far, but with Tormenting Runes, Shroud, Consume Shadows etc., Specter is many things, squishy, low in effective HP or low in self sustain all ain't one of them. 

 

All in all, while I don't think it can be compared as easily to Core, Reaper or Scourge nor does it seem reasonable to put one spec up against 3 in ability across modes, it is fairly close to Harbinger though, which felt like a Necro/Thief, compared to Specter being a Thief/Necro, and there I have to say Specter clearly pulled the superior card. 

 

The biggest and lowest draining Shroud added on Specter compared to losing Shroud and 50% HP on Harbinger. 

Likely about the same DPS, if not more for Specter (with allies to share Venoms to), both with ranged options, but Harbinger being more risky and limited due to being entirely bound to Projectiles. 

More debilitating conditions and frequent CC on Specter.

Obviously still vastly more mobility options on Specter. 

Specter is drastically more tanky and surviveable.

Much more interesting gameplayloop, skills (esp. Utilites) and Traits (imo), where Harbinger is mostly just pressing 1+2 in and out of Shroud with passive damage modifiers and non interactive Auras doing the work, Specter weaves quite naturally between bursting out Initiative and weaving into Shroud (if it weren't for the targeting and teleportation bugs), as well as having quite the build crafting potential via Traits etc.

And while it's boon support is more clunky (again, esp. with the current bugs), it's vastly superior to Harbinger as well, on top of offering incredibly potent healing if specced for, at much less personal damage loss due to intrinsic mechanics like Rot Wallow Venom. 

Other than ease of Use, I don't think there is a single Metric in which Harbinger beats out Specter.

 


#1: If you run Larcenous Torment, it means you can't run Traversing Darkness, removing the best group buff that Specter has.  

#2: ...Did you look at the numbers?  Thief base health is 11,645, meaning Shadow Shroud is 17,468 theoretical health.  The necromancer at base 19,212 health will have either 13,256 or 15,907 with the Soul Reaping line.  That's very little difference between the two.  Also, I can't find any documentation whether the Shadow Shroud cuts damage by 50% or not.

#4/#5: I said half of the wells were useless.  The heal and the elite are usually good.  The others...

Well of Bounty: It gives random boons.  When I say "random" I mean that the priority list as no logical order and you're ultimately not in control of what boons it gives.  This makes it nearly useless, because you can't count on it to give anything, let alone in a timely matter.  Bounty doesn't reinforce boons, either, so instead of shoring up someone's quickness you're giving them resolution.  Boons stack in duration, precisely to avoid the kind of problems that this skill has.  You can't count on it to give might, either, because Bounty also gives the rare and largely useless boons.  In any raid group, it will have to chew through Resistance, Resolution, and Stability (useless without proper timing) before it gives might.  Because of this, there's only one boon that can be counted on here, and that is Alacrity.

Well of Tears:: Either this or sorrow will be useless, since you'll be running either a power or a condi build.  For all intents and purposes this is going to be a condi spec, so Well of Tears doesn't have much function.

Well of Silence: This is decent for obscenely large defiance bars, but for most other places it isn't that good.  In PVP/WvW people will just walk right out of it.  For PVE, Smoke Screen already effectively disables groups of enemies while also blocking projectiles, lasting longer, and also has a lower cooldown.  This skill has a cast time, making it difficult to interrupt people with it.  Finally, it's 30 second cooldown means that it can't be used as an alacrity buffer, and it you did try then it wouldn't serve to break defiance bars.  You'll end up taking Well of Tears over this, just to reliably give alacrity.

This is what I mean when I say that Specter gives Alacrity and some Barrier.  Everything else is core thief, or can't be counted upon with any sort of reliability.  Sure, the Scourge only gives might, regeneration, barrier, condition cleanses, and epidemic.  However, the scourge gives these out reliably and on demand.

#6:  I've been plowing through these things in WvW.  There, Shadow Force generation is even lower than in PVE, and without all of the quick mobility and stealth that the other e-specs give, these end up being surprisingly easy to chase and focus down.  Aside from that, it isn't uncommon to have all of your health blasted away in a few hits, since it is still much lower than other professions (say, the necromancer).

The OP isn't talking about the Specter taking away the Harbinger.  They're talking about taking away the necromancer, which it really doesn't.  

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46 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 


#1: If you run Larcenous Torment, it means you can't run Traversing Darkness, removing the best group buff that Specter has.  

#2: ...Did you look at the numbers?  Thief base health is 11,645, meaning Shadow Shroud is 17,468 theoretical health.  The necromancer at base 19,212 health will have either 13,256 or 15,907 with the Soul Reaping line.  That's very little difference between the two.  Also, I can't find any documentation whether the Shadow Shroud cuts damage by 50% or not.

#4/#5: I said half of the wells were useless.  The heal and the elite are usually good.  The others...

Well of Bounty: It gives random boons.  When I say "random" I mean that the priority list as no logical order and you're ultimately not in control of what boons it gives.  This makes it nearly useless, because you can't count on it to give anything, let alone in a timely matter.  Bounty doesn't reinforce boons, either, so instead of shoring up someone's quickness you're giving them resolution.  Boons stack in duration, precisely to avoid the kind of problems that this skill has.  You can't count on it to give might, either, because Bounty also gives the rare and largely useless boons.  In any raid group, it will have to chew through Resistance, Resolution, and Stability (useless without proper timing) before it gives might.  Because of this, there's only one boon that can be counted on here, and that is Alacrity.

Well of Tears:: Either this or sorrow will be useless, since you'll be running either a power or a condi build.  For all intents and purposes this is going to be a condi spec, so Well of Tears doesn't have much function.

Well of Silence: This is decent for obscenely large defiance bars, but for most other places it isn't that good.  In PVP/WvW people will just walk right out of it.  For PVE, Smoke Screen already effectively disables groups of enemies while also blocking projectiles, lasting longer, and also has a lower cooldown.  This skill has a cast time, making it difficult to interrupt people with it.  Finally, it's 30 second cooldown means that it can't be used as an alacrity buffer, and it you did try then it wouldn't serve to break defiance bars.  You'll end up taking Well of Tears over this, just to reliably give alacrity.

This is what I mean when I say that Specter gives Alacrity and some Barrier.  Everything else is core thief, or can't be counted upon with any sort of reliability.  Sure, the Scourge only gives might, regeneration, barrier, condition cleanses, and epidemic.  However, the scourge gives these out reliably and on demand.

#6:  I've been plowing through these things in WvW.  There, Shadow Force generation is even lower than in PVE, and without all of the quick mobility and stealth that the other e-specs give, these end up being surprisingly easy to chase and focus down.  Aside from that, it isn't uncommon to have all of your health blasted away in a few hits, since it is still much lower than other professions (say, the necromancer).

The OP isn't talking about the Specter taking away the Harbinger.  They're talking about taking away the necromancer, which it really doesn't.  

1. Traversing Darkness generates Shadow Force (and AoE healing) as well for support builds on every Shadow Step (which you spam with Measured Shot and Wells). I had little trouble to Consume Shadows in Fractal CM's to insta full heal and barrier my group every time I needed it. 

 

2. Sure, but how is 29k Health minimum (scaling up incredibly with extra Vitality, >40k HP with something like Plaguedoctors) squishy/low HP pool?

 

As for Well of Bounty, with the boons support Specter can do on it's own otherwise (Might, Fury, Swiftness with Thrill of Crime, Regen and Quickness with Sc/P 3, and Alac on Wells), in my experience it consistently applied Prot and Resistance on every cast (and then generally Vigor/Aegis if Vigor from Bountiful Theft, Resolution and Stability). That on top of a shadow step that generates Shroud, and traited (Shadow Savior, Traversing Dusk) heals for >2k HP AoE on a 15 sec CD with it's Alac... idk what else you expect from a Utility skill, that's pretty much more value on a single skill than most Harbinger Elixirs Traited combined, at no health cost. 

Some of the other Wells, esp Tears, I agree. It's pretty much just a Shadow Step/AoE heal/Shadow Force and Alacrity generator via Traits. But that's still a lot, even if untraited it's pretty lacklustre.

Edited by Asum.4960
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On 10/28/2021 at 6:11 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Try it.  No, really.  Try playing the Specter.

#1: The Shadow Force generation is way too slow.

#2: While in Shadow Shroud, your skills are largely terrible and very slow moving.

#3: The scepter has forced movement, making it clumsy and dangerous to use.

#4: Half of the wells are useless.  Random boons and random conditions with short durations don't actually serve much of a function.

#5: The only thing it does that vanilla thief doesn't is alacrity and some barrier application.

#6: Poor self-sustain and low HP pool means that it is surprisingly squishy.  You'll end up blowing your wells just to run away.

As it stands right now, the Specter is just an inferior knock-off of the necromancer.  Necro has it beat in PVP, WvW, and overworld PVE.  The ability to generate alacrity is nearly useless in structured PVE, because it only works on 5 targets.  

 

 

 

More people play fractals than those that raid for organized PvE content where boon stacking matters.

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On 10/28/2021 at 1:44 AM, Kuulpb.5412 said:

Everything a necro could do, they gave to thief, but better.  Necro can heal 7% hp when leaving shroud?  - Thieves can heal 100% hp.  Necromancers can avoid death at the cost of shroud?  Thieves can do that and it's a Minor trait. Thieves get Wells and an Elite well which Necromancers STILL lack. - I wasn't going to come back to this game after harbinger reveal, but now i'm actively against it as they're just  giving other professions what necromancer had.

Sooo you're saying you didn't play it yourself? 😄

On 10/28/2021 at 2:50 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

ur right, specter which has no aoe capability at all is clearly better in every way than necro that is all aoe capability

this is b a i t team do not engage

True, stopped typing.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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I have to agree with OP here. I havent tested specter as indepth, but i did watch a lot of stream also pvp ones

 

- Lifeforce generation for thief is way easier and reliable, ex. just spending initiative (not hitting skills at all) generates it. you can trait that causing torment gains it regardless of what skill or weapon. It feels a lot less clumsy than what necro has to do (actually hitting target, with a specific skill, that has a cooldown) or some traits that only work some of the time for lifeforce (like fear, which is blocked by stab giving you no lifeforce at all). It feels like thief can just play the game and generate it and necro must think how to adept the build to manage lifeforce. Why hasnt necro a trait that egnerates lifeforce on corrupt? Or on skill use? Or on inflicting  conditions? 

 

- Shroud cooldown is way lower. It feels not like a sitting duck for thief at all because he can quickly zoom in and out of shroud making use of the relative short cooldowns all while enjoying the protection shroud offers.

 

- The traits and the options you have to spend and use lifeforce for supportive effects are honestly great. The interaction between lifeforce / shroud and traits for specter with that one traitline alone feel better than the entire interaction necromancer has across all traitlines. period.

 

- Wells are just straight up powecreeped with a slapped teleport on it and potential (easy access) perma alacrity all while the wells having low cooldowns.

 

-The whole concept of supporting allies while playing offensive while in shroud is translated very well. Necromancer was always supposed to be the "offensive" support, specter does exactly that but better and way more reliable.

 

- Wether or not you like the idea of a "ally targeting" in the game it feels very powerfull with the current numbers. If you remember necro als had a trait years ago that lets lifeblast heal allies it passed through - was scrapped ultimately.

 

I really really hope they adopt a lot of these meaningful traits and lifeforce synergy for necromancers in a coming balance pass.

 

 

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My main gripe with specter shroud isn't if it's more or less effective than necro but that it's such a blatant copy paste of necro design. With mechanist getting a pet it distinguishes itself very dramatically in terms of theme and function, all of its traits are geared around customizing the pet/mech to entirely different roles. With specter shroud it's literally just a recolored core necro shroud, the skill 3 still has fear kitten! It just feels so creatively bankrupt to me that I can't enjoy it.

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8 hours ago, YaminoNakani.7083 said:

Video

It's incredible how he is constantly ignored... which makes him look better than necessary. Half of the time he is one hit away from being killed and no one is pressuring him.

When you fight a team with someone like sindrener you do either ignore him, when the rest of his team sucks or you hardfocus him, when they don't. In this case the latter would have been a lot better.

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1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

It's incredible how he is constantly ignored... which makes him look better than necessary. Half of the time he is one hit away from being killed and no one is pressuring him.

When you fight a team with someone like sindrener you do either ignore him, when the rest of his team sucks or you hardfocus him, when they don't. In this case the latter would have been a lot better.

I swear you are the only person on this forum that is consistently intelligent. 

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1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

It's incredible how he is constantly ignored... which makes him look better than necessary. Half of the time he is one hit away from being killed and no one is pressuring him.

When you fight a team with someone like sindrener you do either ignore him, when the rest of his team sucks or you hardfocus him, when they don't. In this case the latter would have been a lot better.

 

Or maybe it's not visible to you in this video that he has ample access to blinds, barriers, and blinks to slip away the moment he gets focused.

 

Know who does not? Necromancer. Oh, but they have 8k more HP, whoop dee do, 2 autoattack crits while having none of the mobility, dodges, stealth, and blind of the thief to avoid being focused down.

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16 hours ago, TheRealGorthaur.1796 said:

So judging from the video it looks like the shroud cooldown starts when entering the shroud as it is often immediately available to reenter after exiting.
Thats definitely not the case for necro, though.

 

Shroud for thief is also completely not reliant on landing niche skills to generate the resource. It's generated by initiative spent, any skill will grant it, and you don't need to land anything to obtain your survival resource.

 

It also has several ways to obtain healing in shroud, and when existing grants you healing and barrier on top. Necro just has Unholy Sanctuary in a deficient traitline for PvE.

 

Meanwhile in raids reaper can't regain scholar bonus because Anet decided for some asinine reason that receiving heals in shroud is too strong (but warriors and guardians and rangers chaining invulnerabilities and blocks are perfectly healable on top of having betetr stability and dodge uptime).

 

There's a reason everyone plays scourge. The baseline shroud mechanics suck, and the Scourge deals away with all the arbitrary handicaps of the necro core mechanic.

 

I won't even mention how arbitrary it feels that you can't use flesh golem for CC or wells/corruptions for boonstrip utilities in shroud because somehow having access to utility skills in shroud would be too much. It makes no sense whatsoever in PvE. It's just a handicap.

 

Especially when reaper is so reliant on reaper shroud mechanic to put out still mediocre DPS, and any damage intake in reaper shroud is a huge DPS loss because the greatsword has such bad DPS as well as the rest of the necro power weapons.

Edited by Zenith.7301
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On 11/11/2021 at 2:17 AM, Zenith.7301 said:

 

Shroud for thief is also completely not reliant on landing niche skills to generate the resource. It's generated by initiative spent, any skill will grant it, and you don't need to land anything to obtain your survival resource.

 

It also has several ways to obtain healing in shroud, and when existing grants you healing and barrier on top. Necro just has Unholy Sanctuary in a deficient traitline for PvE.

 

Meanwhile in raids reaper can't regain scholar bonus because Anet decided for some asinine reason that receiving heals in shroud is too strong (but warriors and guardians and rangers chaining invulnerabilities and blocks are perfectly healable on top of having betetr stability and dodge uptime).

 

There's a reason everyone plays scourge. The baseline shroud mechanics suck, and the Scourge deals away with all the arbitrary handicaps of the necro core mechanic.

 

I won't even mention how arbitrary it feels that you can't use flesh golem for CC or wells/corruptions for boonstrip utilities in shroud because somehow having access to utility skills in shroud would be too much. It makes no sense whatsoever in PvE. It's just a handicap.

 

Especially when reaper is so reliant on reaper shroud mechanic to put out still mediocre DPS, and any damage intake in reaper shroud is a huge DPS loss because the greatsword has such bad DPS as well as the rest of the necro power weapons.

 

The necromancer is really handicapped by poor design from the beginning that anet just isnt seeing the issues with. Only to turn around and give thieves super improved versions of just about everything.

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