Should Anet completely redo the untamed from scratch?

[anduriell.6280]

20 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Please elaborate. I don't see how this can be the case.

Untamed has literally all the sustain options core ranger has, since it is not giving up anything currently (unlike other elite specs, it doesn't have any trade off whatsoever).

And it adds more sustain options like a trait which turns 10% of all your strike damage into healing and adding barrier to cantrips.

So please explain why you think that this spec has less self sustain than core.

Sure, not a problem at all. 

Core: BM/MS/SM-NM/BM-WS # GS/LB -> Sustainable.  
Untammed: BM-WS-UN #HM/GS-> Only usable combination. I don't need to explain why .  Not working. 

Do please stop reading the notes and making tales of wonder in your head. Gw2 and specially the ranger has never been like that. Use Instinctive Engage as an example. Ranger wishes every pet would work as the mechanist's golem. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Strider.7849]

I don't like the options for the after the beta spec. I remember voting initially for re-do the whole thing.

 

Right now untamed is too similar in functionality to core ranger.  None of the major problems were addressed that will give this a place WvW zerging, main thing being hammers radius on skills is still too small - the leap was nice/needed.

 

They won't re-do the whole spec so we just have to accept the way it is. Warriors bladesworn is in a similar boat where it's elite spec is just giving more of the same thing they already have in a different package. So it's not the only EoD spec with these issues.

 

Personally I'm looking forward most to playing virtuoso, mechanist, and Vindicator (maybe even spectre too). The worst specs to me are definitely untamed, bladesworn, harbinger, and willbender

 

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, Strider.7849 said:

Personally I'm looking forward most to playing virtuoso, mechanist, and Vindicator (maybe even spectre too). The worst specs to me are definitely untamed, bladesworn, harbinger, and willbender.

The thing is i am not going to give this game other chance until they fix the kitten class, i won't grind another legendary set for light / heavy. I am specially annoyed after 2 expansions the ranger hasn't got any team build / elite specialization. 

And this is coming fom vanilla when core ranger was discarded and bullied in dungeons because of the kitten pets and not being able to permanently stow them. Anet shoehorned the Druid in raids who nobody plays. No only they didn't give more options for team comps but they even removed all of the existing ones like throwable traps or mobile spirits. I cannot state how much I hate those changes. 

Anet has got 9 years to fix this disaster  but looks like  9 years and 3 expansions later we are still dancing to the same song. I am not going to point out  why ranger seems to have only 2 pets as well. 

 

[Strider.7849]

40 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

The thing is i am not going to give this game other chance until they fix the kitten class, i won't grind another legendary set for light / heavy. I am specially annoyed after 2 expansions the ranger hasn't got any team build / elite specialization. 

And this is coming fom vanilla when core ranger was discarded and bullied in dungeons because of the kitten pets and not being able to permanently stow them. Anet shoehorned the Druid in raids who nobody plays. No only they didn't give more options for team comps but they even removed all of the existing ones like throwable traps or mobile spirits. I cannot state how much I hate those changes. 

Anet has got 9 years to fix this disaster  but looks like  9 years and 3 expansions later we are still dancing to the same song. I am not going to point out  why ranger seems to have only 2 pets as well. 

 

I'm in the same boat as you man. I ONLY have a medium legendary armor set which I made specifically/only for ranger - this was before the armoury thing. I have nearly every legendary weapon for ranger as well and my long term plans were for runes/sigils etc..

 

This is all while my favourite aspect of ranger was druid. Then they nerfed it to the point where it was only used as a single slot in raids (which isn't even necessary) and some very niche roaming builds in WvW. The massive nerf to the pet by running druid was at a time when they needed a reason for trade-offs suddenly - yet years later we still have classes without any real trade offs (i.e. tempest, holosmith)

 

Add into all this the outdated and/or over nerfed pets. Weird changes on our weapons: I strongly dislike the sword changes, some aspects of greatsword like the combo chain, or weakening longbow to a point where it's only useful on mostly glass builds (rapid fire against a competent opponent is weaker then the auto attack).  All of our elite spec weapons are garbage: dagger on soulbeast, druids staff is lol, now we can hammer to the list.

 

You know as well as I do that these are only some of the problems I touched upon here.. it's just as far as games go in the MMO field, I like Guild Wars 2 lack of a greedy store system, no monthly payments - just buy to own, and even though the game as a whole is a shadow of its former self, it's still one of the best MMO's to me.. so my point to all this is yeah they have killed my many years interest (since launch) in my main (ranger), but I know I'll still be playing this in the future.. I'm not "giving it another chance".. more like I've given up hope and just decided to play what I find interesting/fun until I can chuck this game into traffic.

[Krispera.5087]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Anet shoehorned the Druid in raids who nobody plays. No only they didn't give more options for team comps but they even removed all of the existing ones like throwable traps or mobile spirits. I cannot state how much I hate those changes. 

 

6 hours ago, Strider.7849 said:

I'm in the same boat as you man. I ONLY have a medium legendary armor set which I made specifically/only for ranger - this was before the armoury thing. I have nearly every legendary weapon for ranger as well and my long term plans were for runes/sigils etc..

 

The massive nerf to the pet by running druid was at a time when they needed a reason for trade-offs suddenly - yet years later we still have classes without any real trade offs (i.e. tempest, holosmith)

 

Weird changes on our weapons [...]

All of our elite spec weapons are garbage: dagger on soulbeast, druids staff is lol, now we can hammer to the list.

 

You guys said things that were all on my mind as well.

 

Druid is completely useless outside of Raids and trolling WvW roaming/PVP. Instead to make Spirits simple, they made it overly complicated for nothing, while nerfing the stability output of Ranger. Over that, they nerfed the Pet, for what ? Nonsense. Other SUPPORT specs don't get their damage nerfed, by example : FB and Scourge. What are the tradeoff of FB and Scourge ? That's right, they don't have any. 

 

Soulbeast's dagger and Untamed's hammer are seriously the most boring weapons they could have given to Ranger. Druid Staff need a complete rehaul. It has so many skillshots. It has been nerfed so much over the years. Again, Ranger will play with the same weapons since launch. You can play Sw/A + GS/LB on Power Sbeast, you can play Shortbow + Axe/Torch or OHDagger for Condi Sbeast, you don't need the Dagger. Untamed ? Why bother talk about it, the DPS is not even worth it. 

 

Just making Traps throwable would help Ranger immensely. Giving access to much needed AoE and maybe a spot in WvW zergs. Also, Condi Ranger need better AoE, that would fix it. What it only has is Bonfire and maybe one trap in the utility slot. LOL. Meanwhile Guardian throw AoE burning sword and symbols 900 range away, same with Scourge shades. 

 

They do so many wrong things on the Ranger, I feel like they really hate the profession. Just play other classes, you can see the disparity. I've been migrating my stuff on my other classes since the reveal of Untamed and the beta tests. This give me no hope for the long run. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Krispera.5087

[Dante.1508]

On 12/10/2021 at 7:07 AM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Just my own personal oppinion. 

I don't like anything about Untamed. 

Maybe just the name itself.

 

I don't like ranger using hammer.

I don't like the vile skin textures around it and pet.

I don't like that broccoli spawn.

... and what is that back and forth energy thingy that does absolutely nothing whatsoever? 

 

Redo.

Just give Rangers a Sniper Rifle already.

It's in its name for peaks sake.

You aren't alone everything about it screams pointless class.

[phaidetublacke.6048]

You can laugh if you want too, but I've always said the next Ranger Elite should be the reverse of the Soulbeast very much along the line being hit with the Mesmer Moa or that PvE mission where you turn into a little Raven. Imagine becoming the animal but a massive wolf, a massive smokescale, or even a massive owl. Take the model that you currently have and double it in size and add the red animation from Strength of the Pack. Anet, you have 5 skills to figure out when in animal form and Soulbeast pet merge already gives you three so there is only slot 4 and 5 on your keyboard to create. Plus, it is not like you have to create them for every single pet, you only need to create them for each family of pets. and you already have most of the work and digital assets done.

Imagine being a bird in WvW where you could fly in any zone you own and scout the enemy zergs. Or better yet, imagine three rangers all in wolf form running with the speed of the warclaw and chasing down enemies who are trying to flee from a flipped keep? Who cares what weapon they give the spec because the trait line should support you when you are in animal form. It still may not be the most meta friendly but the cool factor for running as a bear in a zerg legit makes me smile. Now, that would be truly Untamed! Just my two cents. 🙂

Edited January 3, 2022 by phaidetublacke.6048

[SoulGuardian.6203]

22 hours ago, phaidetublacke.6048 said:

You can laugh if you want too, but I've always said the next Ranger Elite should be the reverse of the Soulbeast very much along the line being hit with the Mesmer Moa or that PvE mission where you turn into a little Raven. Imagine becoming the animal but a massive wolf, a massive smokescale, or even a massive owl. Take the model that you currently have and double it in size and add the red animation from Strength of the Pack. Anet, you have 5 skills to figure out when in animal form and Soulbeast pet merge already gives you three so there is only slot 4 and 5 on your keyboard to create. Plus, it is not like you have to create them for every single pet, you only need to create them for each family of pets. and you already have most of the work and digital assets done.

Imagine being a bird in WvW where you could fly in any zone you own and scout the enemy zergs. Or better yet, imagine three rangers all in wolf form running with the speed of the warclaw and chasing down enemies who are trying to flee from a flipped keep? Who cares what weapon they give the spec because the trait line should support you when you are in animal form. It still may not be the most meta friendly but the cool factor for running as a bear in a zerg legit makes me smile. Now, that would be truly Untamed! Just my two cents. 🙂

I like this idea.

Would be so much better than what we have now.

Yes from me.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[phaidetublacke.6048]

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I like this idea.

Would be so much better than what we have now.

Yes from me.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

 

Thanks! And I actually made a mistake as each pet already has 4 skills to use when they are unmerged and then 3 more when they are merged with a Soulbeast. Thus Anet has 7 skills to choose from when they only need to fill keys 1 to 5.  🙂

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 1/3/2022 at 6:31 PM, phaidetublacke.6048 said:

You can laugh if you want too, but I've always said the next Ranger Elite should be the reverse of the Soulbeast very much along the line being hit with the Mesmer Moa or that PvE mission where you turn into a little Raven. Imagine becoming the animal but a massive wolf, a massive smokescale, or even a massive owl. Take the model that you currently have and double it in size and add the red animation from Strength of the Pack. Anet, you have 5 skills to figure out when in animal form and Soulbeast pet merge already gives you three so there is only slot 4 and 5 on your keyboard to create. Plus, it is not like you have to create them for every single pet, you only need to create them for each family of pets. and you already have most of the work and digital assets done.

Imagine being a bird in WvW where you could fly in any zone you own and scout the enemy zergs. Or better yet, imagine three rangers all in wolf form running with the speed of the warclaw and chasing down enemies who are trying to flee from a flipped keep? Who cares what weapon they give the spec because the trait line should support you when you are in animal form. It still may not be the most meta friendly but the cool factor for running as a bear in a zerg legit makes me smile. Now, that would be truly Untamed! Just my two cents. 🙂

Only problem with this suggestion is that it kinda makes me miss my ol' drood on WoW.  Imagine the damage you could do in WvW merged with Jacaranda or Iboga. PvP bristleback...ouch.

 

It would never happen to ranger

A It would require work

B It would be fun.

The fact that Untamed causes your ranger to get covered in what seems to be sewage, complete with stink cloud,  should tell you everthing you need to know about how much effort Anet wants to put into ranger and what they think of the class.

Nobody designed that special effect thinking it looked cool. They can't have, it's not humanly possible.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

3 hours ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

  Imagine the damage you could do in WvW merged with Jacaranda or Iboga. PvP bristleback...ouch.

This feller actually made one of the best suggestions I have ever seen in these forums.

 

I wonder how it would be like to fight as a Sand Lion or that 4 massive pincers dog like beast.

But fighting as a wolf would suit my main ranger so well.

 

Quote

The fact that Untamed causes your ranger to get covered in what seems to be sewage, complete with stink cloud,  should tell you everthing you need to know about how much effort Anet wants to put into ranger and what they think of the class.

Nobody designed that special effect thinking it looked cool. They can't have, it's not humanly possible.

 

Thank you so very much.

Precisely my thoughts.

... and that exploding broccoli...?

Really? Are they serious?

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Cqv.3710]

I quite hate it, and I was hoping that Anet would revisit making a elite spec that would help make ranger viable for wvw zerging. They nerfed druid's healing in the past updates that druid just can't work. And this new elite spec was my last hope...

[Draeyon.4392]

WvW Perspective.

 

Untamed has 2 really big problems at the moment.

 

1. It faces the same problem as core ranger. Pets are too squishy and the AI is janky (even with the added controls).

 

2. Core ranger is already the jack of all trades but master of none. This spec is trying to do the same thing and it falls flat on its face.

 

 

Changes:

1. Make the pet a scourge shade for all intensive purposes when untamed and either give it a significant damage reduction or make it invulnerable in this form.

F1 becomes an AoE teleport placement with a secondary effect. Add a fourth skill to the pet untamed skills and rework them to better define the role of this spec (see below).

 

 

2. What is the role of this "brawler" spec.

Damage and CC, Group Support or Boon Denial.

Pick 2 (maybe a light sprinkle of a third) and and then rework all Untamed skills to go hard in that direction.

 

My personal preference is for Damage+Boonrip with some extra CC.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Draeyon.4392

[Dante.1508]

Its garbage and everyone smart will avoid it.

[Kaenaydar.5631]

For me as a ranger main its just give us a way to autocast skills like on core how pets do it on default. Maybe up the damage on both you and pet to make the class end game viable. In truth i had hoped untamed be like the master ranger in that one dungeon. The way he controlled 2 wolves was pretty cool.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Abyssisis.3971]

I only played the first beta, time restraints and all.

How do the disable traits work with the cooldown? Is it a cooldown per target or an overall cooldown? Like if I disable 3 targets at the same time, do each target get 5 vulnerability and I gain 9 seconds of quickness or does only 1 target get the vulnerability and I get 3 seconds of quickness assuming it’s the state I’m in?

“The untamed share a primal bond with nature through their pet, juggling control of raw power back and forth to defeat foes”

Imo more traits should be focused on this swapping of “raw power” rather than boasting this Ambush rubbish that anet tact on afterwards as a band-aid to the poor implementation of unleashed hammer. Just remove unleashed hammer mode and these ambush skills and rework the traits to improve Untamed regardless of the weapon used.

Its like they have no idea what they want the untamed to be, what role they intend on it performing and as a result we have a complete mess, it’s almost as if it was a Friday arvo job. 🤦‍♂️
 

I had a lot of hope for improvements, but once again anet has dropped the ball and I’ll be sticking with soulbeast for another few years.
 

Untamed definitely requires a complete rework.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Abyssisis.3971

[Beddo.1907]

1 hour ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

How do the disable traits work with the cooldown? Is it a cooldown per target or an overall cooldown? Like if I disable 3 targets at the same time, do each target get 5 vulnerability and I gain 9 seconds of quickness or does only 1 target get the vulnerability and I get 3 seconds of quickness assuming it’s the state I’m in?

1 trigger per skill so only one CD reduction. Vulnerability should apply on all targets but I'm not 100% sure.

 

1 hour ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

I had a lot of hope for improvements, but once again anet has dropped the ball and I’ll be sticking with soulbeast for another few years.

There should be changes before 28th but we probably won't see them until the expansion drops. Also you might not want to stay on Soulbeast since the chance of a nerf to make Untamed better is quite possible if they don't manage to buff it enough without a rework.

[Abyssisis.3971]

5 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

1 trigger per skill so only one CD reduction. Vulnerability should apply on all targets but I'm not 100% sure.

 

There should be changes before 28th but we probably won't see them until the expansion drops. Also you might not want to stay on Soulbeast since the chance of a nerf to make Untamed better is quite possible if they don't manage to buff it enough without a rework.

Well those traits just don’t seem worthwhile taking. If they want us to have a gameplay style focused on disabling enemies then they should at least make the traits worth taking… 

I would like to see…

Debilitating blow - converts a boon on disable targets into a condition 

Enhancing impact - steal a boon from disabled targets

fervent force - inflict damage when you disable targets

on top of what they are currently listed as doing and these should also apply to when pets disable targets as well as not all weapon sets are able to disable targets.

 

I suspect soulbeast will get some push sales nerfs soon, but I still won’t be spending my money on the expansion as I’m not happy with the untamed in its current form and have no desire to play such a mess.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

16 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

but I still won’t be spending my money on the expansion as I’m not happy with the untamed in its current form and have no desire to play such a mess.

 

I said this last week too, not only over the mess that Untamed is, but also other classes too... and for various other reasons they wont change, and it defo should.

 

I feel ranger is one of the most victimised classes in this game, and it's constantly suffering nerfs for just about any reason or another instead of being buffed.

Same with warrior, but that's another story...

 

I remember at least 4 years ago I could solo even some champions, alone with my Core ranger and pet.

 

Now can't even make a dint in the same champs.

Pets have become so useless that they are merely an adornment .

If they nerf other ranger variants yet again just to accomodate Untamed;

I'm never getting expansion.

... and maybe even become just a very casual player that only plays 30 minutes every 6 months, like the 30 odd ppl on my friends list.

 

I already rage quited this game once, for the very first time in my life, in more than 30 years of gaming, over being so annoyed with thieves perma invisibility.... and the amount of conditions and shadowsteps, dps, making any average thief untouchable... 

 

I give the same TLC to all classes.

I don't like saying that I main anything.

I enjoy most, except firebrand and warriors just a mess.

But it is Ranger that I enjoy playing most, and my very first character.

Regardless of how many characters I create, always end up making another ranger.

Have 4 now.

 

---

 

So anyways, (Ideas) I think they should buff pets significantly, and untamed is the chance to do it.

They should on all rangers regardless... anyways

Perhaps even able to use two pets at once, or have a quick strike from the second pet.

Say you are using a wolf, an F5 will call out your second pet for a quick strike, say an eagle... and back out.

That quick strike recharges much faster than pet swap.

 

Pets are useless in WvW.

They get killed too easily and cause next to none damage, IF they even reach your foes at all, which 99% of the time they don't.

Improve this in general, and could be buffed further in Untamed.

Give it a chance for pets to atleast reach foes and inflict some damage and conditions.

 

So to conclude:

● Second strike.

● Buff pets.

● Possible use of 2 pets simultaniously.

● Bonus tip for ANet 

... and for God's sake remove the hammer from untamed.

As you can see in this thread, especially in the last several comments; people don't want hammer... Anet... get the hint... my dear devs.

There are still so many... more suitable weapons, you can give ranger.

 

One more thing that I forgot to mention... two, actually.

 

1) Soulbeasts have already been penalised by having pet switching, while in combat, removed from them.

Maybe adding that second strike idea I gave above to them would suit them perfectly.

 

2) Druids aren't quite there as druids.

A druid draws life and energy from nature to benefit them and their pets.

They should have skills and traits that do just that.

I must say, the celestial form needs rework.

They should not be left without a weapon while in this form.

The duration time is too short, and leaves them more vunerable than the actual healing they would provide... but they don't even do.

Last but not least, that staff main attack should not need a target in order to function.

Guardians staff #1 can attack at will, so why are druids penalised with this too?

All this needs changing... and that's why... and sorry to say that Untamed is a complete and utter failure; only to please some Bunnythumper fans.

Edited February 10, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203
Added more stuff and edited misspellings

[Mell.4873]

Ultimately if you want to use your pet and not be a druid this is the only other elite specialisation that you can use. 

For pve and some pvp applications untamed will be a slightly better version of core. Especially with the more aoe focused ambushes.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

16 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Ultimately if you want to use your pet and not be a druid this is the only other elite specialisation that you can use. 

For pve and some pvp applications untamed will be a slightly better version of core. Especially with the more aoe focused ambushes.

Ambushes are not what you think they are. They are not big damage, they practically land the same damage as the autos in the same span of time. 

They bring cleave but again if it's cleave what you are looking for, one random attack every 15 seconds is not enough. 

Untamed feels like a downgrade from core in many aspects.  And cantrips are a downgrade in many aspects to core utilities. 

[Mell.4873]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:58 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Ambushes are not what you think they are. They are not big damage, they practically land the same damage as the autos in the same span of time. 

They bring cleave but again if it's cleave what you are looking for, one random attack every 15 seconds is not enough. 

Untamed feels like a downgrade from core in many aspects.  And cantrips are a downgrade in many aspects to core utilities. 

More access to aoe and cleave is good, and long cooldowns mean nothing in open world pve and WvW

Edited February 15, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

4 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

More access to aoe and cleave is good, and long cooldowns are mean nothing in open world pve and WvW

Well you are correct, but when tagging mobs in Openworld trains "long" CDs can be an issue. 

In WvW the important part is the extra utility from the ambushes. But untamed has a different issues set when talking about WvW mainly focus in the pet survival and the lack of team utilities. In WvW zerging the damage itself is not that important. 

So in openworld the untamed has not enough cleave and damage to quickly tag mobs and in WvW/team play it  hasn't enough utility and pets are a hindrance most of the time. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Mell.4873]

Just now, anduriell.6280 said:

Well you are correct, but when tagging mobs in Openworld trains "long" CDs can be an issue. 

In WvW the important part is the extra utility from the ambushes. But untamed has a different issues set when talking about WvW mainly focus in on the pet survival and the lack of team utilities. In WvW zerging the damage itself is not that important. 

So in openworld the untamed has not enough cleave and damage to quickly tag mobs and in WvW/team play it  hasn't enough utility and pets are a hindrance most of the time. 

Okay well we shall see when it comes out, I'm sure if it is underperforming they will buff it. 

[anduriell.6280]

3 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Okay well we shall see when it comes out, I'm sure if it is underperforming they will buff it. 

I hope the Anet Yisus hears you and everything works fine. It made me feel sad  seeing the general design of the untamed and it left on me a pretty negative perception of the elite.  

Edited February 11, 2022 by anduriell.6280