Untamed Hammer damage is OK on the Golem.

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Ok, so if it is better at sPvP than Core, what will Core be useful for? If it is better at DPS and WvW than Soulbeast, what is Soulbeast useful for?

Core is a Spec that people have been playing for 9 years. Im sure People would enjoy if the Meta allowed em a break to play something new without rerolling their proffession.

Also they shoulda thought about that before releasing Core Ranger+. thats all untamed is.. Its Litterally Core Ranger with More tools, the problem is the Tools are soooo bad that core ranger still wins because Not having them is a win lol.

Soulbeast has Stance Share whiuch means its supportive capability is Still better then Untameds will ever be effectively. also, Soulbeast offers a Petless Choice Which when it comes to GW2 AI.. is a benefit alone. Soulbeast will always be better in WvWvW because of that effectively.

the point is. Whats the point in introducing a NEW Specc to do the SAME thing as Core but WORSE to fill the SAME role as Soulbeast but WORSE

This argument leads to nothing more then Saying Untamed should bring Utility instead of Damage which is Fine. if they give the Specc Access to Offensive/Defensive Buffs and Utility. its FIne to have Low DPS. but the problem is it doesnt. its a Pure DPS Specc. with the same CC Potiental as Soulbeast.

Deleting Untamed and giving us a New Pet UI with Better Pet Systems and More options for Soulbeasts Additional attacks from the pet Would Give Ranger More new things to play with then this elite will, because its Useless effectively.

Its either gonna Replace Core and Soulbeast. Or Simply not exist thats all its Choices. Theres No Niche for it, theres no Need for it. it doesnt Give Ranger something it doesnt already have. it Doesnt provide Ranger with any new options. its a Pure DPS.. on a Proffession that already has 2 Pure DPS Options (Core Ranger + Soulbeast)

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

7 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Unleashed CD wont fix anything. Because the abilities Share CDs

U wanna remove a 10second CD to stare at the 16 Second CD behind the 10 second CD or u forget these abilities Share CDs also?, ur Double CD locked With unleashed Abilities. also are u forgetting the Unleashed Hammer variant is SUSPOSED TO BE A PURE DPS WEAPON?!

its TWO DAZES. its EQUAL tro SOULBEAST IN CC CAPABILITY. the only thing this specc has that soulbeast doesnt is Access to increased Damage to CC'd Targets, which holds 0 Use in PvE and the Specc doesnt have enough CC in PvP to make use of the traits.

Sure it will. Removing the CD from Unleashed will allow you to Thump (KD), Unleash, Unleashed Savage Shock Wave, Unleash, Overbearing Smash (Daze), Unleash, Unleashed Wild Swing, Swap, Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul. Mate that is a crazy potent combo. If you have Fervent Force traited, you also knocked 12s off the CDs. You can also throw Quick Draw in there for your Thump.

Where did they say Unleashed Hammer is supposed to be pure DPS? 

Also, there are many many other sources of disable on Ranger. How many would you like on Hammer? 12?

Edited November 2, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Where did they say Unleashed Hammer is supposed to be pure DPS? 

In the preview. which he said unleashed hammer is Damage orinated. and the part where Litterally the specc doesnt do anything else but Damage? it has No Utility No Niche no new Options.. its Just another Melee Pure DPS. this things basically weaver lol

14 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Also, there are many many other sources of disable on Ranger. How many would you like on Hammer? 12?

ur not getting the point im not saying Hammer needs more CC

Im saying Hammer Performs Worse then other choices Providing the SAME amount of CC.

If CLass A B and C all bring 4 Types of CC to a fight. Clas A B and C Should also be competitive in DPS. While its SOOO NOT THE CASE RIGHT NOW.

Warriors are doing 37k DPS. Soulbeasts Doing 37k DPS and Mesmers doing 42k DPS untameds coming out With in some Cases LESS at 28k DPS. lol. Why is 1 CC Specc.. Outcasted by the others SOOO Badly while filling the same niche.

14 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Sure it will. Removing the CD from Unleashed will allow you to Thump (KD), Unleash, Unleashed Savage Shock Wave, Unleash, Overbearing Smash (Daze), Unleash, Unleashed Wild Swing, Swap, Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul. Mate that is a crazy potent combo. If you have Fervent Force traited, you also knocked 12s off the CDs. You can also throw Quick Draw in there for your Thump.

while u taking 15% increased Damage. So if u get +1'd Or the enemy Stun breaks u they're gonna Smahs a Already fairly Squishy Proffession even harder into the ground. or u forgetting this trade off also exists. where u take a Heap more Damage while unleashed.

u get stunned While unleashed ( And dont act like it cant be done. those Dazes have quite the animation Lengths ) ur Gonna get urself Murdered or forced into Using aload of Survivability and by the time broken free the combos gonnab e ruined. it is a Crazy Combo. but its a HUGELY animated Combo With no overlaps (while other proffessions can overlap Abilities) that'd be far harder to pull off then Other combos which would achieve similar results.

this proffession is Outclassed by other proffessions And in alot of cases its Own Options.

and when swinging with this thing its Damage wasnt amazing either.. meaning it'll get outbursted also. Or u forgetting Core can Double Knock u Down with pets While buffing itself then bursting u dead Just as Fast Without Taking increased Damage, having Length Animations and can overlap these Effects to Land them faster?

Every other Ranfger option is stronger then Untamed. im sorry but its the fact of the case, and when it likely isnt touched further..a nd gets launched an becomes the Meme of the expansion u'll come to agree, its Worthless compared to existing options.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

50 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

In the preview. which he said unleashed hammer is Damage orinated. and the part where Litterally the specc doesnt do anything else but Damage? it has No Utility No Niche no new Options.. its Just another Melee Pure DPS. this things basically weaver lol

ur not getting the point im not saying Hammer needs more CC

Im saying Hammer Performs Worse then other choices Providing the SAME amount of CC.

If CLass A B and C all bring 4 Types of CC to a fight. Clas A B and C Should also be competitive in DPS. While its SOOO NOT THE CASE RIGHT NOW.

Warriors are doing 37k DPS. Soulbeasts Doing 37k DPS and Mesmers doing 42k DPS untameds coming out With in some Cases LESS at 28k DPS. lol. Why is 1 CC Specc.. Outcasted by the others SOOO Badly while filling the same niche.

while u taking 15% increased Damage. So if u get +1'd Or the enemy Stun breaks u they're gonna Smahs a Already fairly Squishy Proffession even harder into the ground. or u forgetting this trade off also exists. where u take a Heap more Damage while unleashed.

u get stunned While unleashed ( And dont act like it cant be done. those Dazes have quite the animation Lengths ) ur Gonna get urself Murdered or forced into Using aload of Survivability and by the time broken free the combos gonnab e ruined. it is a Crazy Combo. but its a HUGELY animated Combo With no overlaps (while other proffessions can overlap Abilities) that'd be far harder to pull off then Other combos which would achieve similar results.

this proffession is Outclassed by other proffessions And in alot of cases its Own Options.

and when swinging with this thing its Damage wasnt amazing either.. meaning it'll get outbursted also. Or u forgetting Core can Double Knock u Down with pets While buffing itself then bursting u dead Just as Fast Without Taking increased Damage, having Length Animations and can overlap these Effects to Land them faster?

Every other Ranfger option is stronger then Untamed. im sorry but its the fact of the case, and when it likely isnt touched further..a nd gets launched an becomes the Meme of the expansion u'll come to agree, its Worthless compared to existing options.

Actually, he never states Untamed is damage oriented during it's preview at all. He was talking about Bunny Thumper doing a lot of damage, but then goes on to describe the theme they were going for with Untamed as an aggressive bruiser/frontliner. Unleashed Hammer has boon rip and blind too but it's nowhere as good as Weaver sword. But Untamed has more CC, two shadow steps, boon rips/corrupts and an extremely defensive Elite skill, that's all new stuff.

Ok, so your solution is to what? Give Hammer the same damage as GS? So how will it differ from GS then? You're just making a different shaped GS.

Because beta.

It's literally a beta test.

Like, unfinished spec that just had it's first test.

Maybe you need to calm down. You're turning this into something about the spec as a whole when it is specifically about the damage on the Hammer not being as bad as people have stated in the feedback thread. 

If it gets released as is, then it will just get a rework like all the other specs that were released lacklustre. But, there's little to no chance it will be released as is, since it is dreadful.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Infusion.7149]

"damage on the hammer is not bad"

Meanwhile numerical (not "feelings")...

• Auto = 0.8, 1.0, 1.2 coefficients on both Unleash states
• Unleashed Wild Swing has 1.25 coefficient in PVE with a +20% vs CC-ed targets = 1.5
• Unleashed Overbearing Smash has 0.75 coefficient , which is below auto attack
• Unleashed Savage Shock Wave has 1.0 coefficient, so only if it hits three times does it do damage (+20% vs CC-ed targets , +2% per condition) but it is 15s cooldown
• Unleashed Thump is 2.0 coefficient with no payoffs

If not running hammer:

• Maul is 1.75 coefficient before merged bonuses and has a +10% modifier from Two-Handed Training = 2.56 coefficient per second of activation time
• Whirling Defense is 7.92 coefficient and has the ferocity bonus from Honed Axes (+8% crit damage) = 2.43 coefficient per second before crit mod ; 2.63 coefficient per second with crit mod
• Barrage is 6.0 coeficient and hits 5 targets, even accounting for cast time of 2.25s it is 2.66 coefficient per second of cast time

I'm not even a ranger main (play all 9 classes) and I can see this plain as day. The fact that you think this is a good weapon is pretty hilarious.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

"damage on the hammer is not bad"

Meanwhile numerical (not "feelings")...

• Auto = 0.8, 1.0, 1.2 coefficients on both Unleash states
• Unleashed Wild Swing has 1.25 coefficient in PVE with a +20% vs CC-ed targets = 1.5
• Unleashed Overbearing Smash has 0.75 coefficient , which is below auto attack
• Unleashed Savage Shock Wave has 1.0 coefficient, so only if it hits three times does it do damage (+20% vs CC-ed targets , +2% per condition) but it is 15s cooldown
• Unleashed Thump is 2.0 coefficient with no payoffs

If not running hammer:

• Maul is 1.75 coefficient before merged bonuses and has a +10% modifier from Two-Handed Training = 2.56 coefficient per second of activation time
• Whirling Defense is 7.92 coefficient and has the ferocity bonus from Honed Axes (+8% crit damage) = 2.43 coefficient per second before crit mod ; 2.63 coefficient per second with crit mod
• Barrage is 6.0 coeficient and hits 5 targets, even accounting for cast time of 2.25s it is 2.66 coefficient per second of cast time

I'm not even a ranger main (play all 9 classes) and I can see this plain as day. The fact that you think this is a good weapon is pretty hilarious.

"I didn't actually test anything, but here are numbers I cut and pasted from the wiki"

Unleashed Wild Swing/Savage Shock Wave was critting for up to 20k+ on the golem with 12 condis + Remorseless, which procs from the Fury on Unleashed Thump, so that +20% calculation while disabled and the +2% per condition cannot be calculated like that.

Please, just go back and read the title of this thread. Then, comprehend it as a statement not whatever generalization you are inventing in your head.

[Infusion.7149]

13 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

"I didn't actually test anything, but here are numbers I cut and pasted from the wiki"

Unleashed Wild Swing/Savage Shock Wave was critting for up to 20k+ on the golem with 12 condis + Remorseless, which procs from the Fury on Unleashed Thump, so that +20% calculation while disabled and the +2% per condition cannot be calculated like that.

Please, just go back and read the title of this thread. Then, comprehend it as a statement not whatever generalization you are inventing in your head.

You do know I was the one that put them on the wiki after testing it right?

edit: Because still doubting  , also 10 conditions is golem test standard not 12 and Remorseless (+25%) while crit capped having a damage boost only when you apply fury is far worse than Predator's Onslaught (15% against movement impaired/CCed targets) ... 🤣
 

Spoiler

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Restorative_Strikes&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Wild_Swing&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Overbearing_Smash&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Savage_Shock_Wave&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Unleashed_Overbearing_Smash&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Unleashed_Savage_Shock_Wave&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Unleashed_Thump&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Thump_(untamed)&action=history
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Corrupting_Vines&action=history

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Infusion.7149
Because some people don't know how to use page histories.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

50 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You do know I was the one that put them on the wiki after testing it right?

How would I? It's not like you said you tested it anywhere in this thread, in fact you implied you didn't test it, just calculated it. And the user who made the pages on the wiki has a different handle. You do know that was an absurd question, right?

 

[Puck.3697]

On 11/2/2021 at 8:43 AM, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Maybe you need to calm down. You're turning this into something about the spec as a whole when it is specifically about the damage on the Hammer not being as bad as people have stated in the feedback thread. 

the Damage of hammer isnt Ok. its Pathetic.

28k as a TOp parse is Abysmally pathetic... u cant say "oh its ok" Look at the COMPARITIVE before saying somethings OK.

Support Boon Herald does 30k DAMAGE WITH AUTO ATTACKS ONLY. how can u say comitting to a FULL DPS build on Hammer + Full Rotations and say 28k Is fine?! Why is so hard to unstand a Comparitive. im comparing Hammer to Speccs with EQUAL SUPPORTING CAPABILITY AS HAMMER.

other Weapons which arent PURE DPS.

Scourge. isnt a DPS. yet does like 36k DPS, Herald isnt a DPS. yet does 30k+ Depending on the Rotation u do, Scrapper isnt a DPS FOcused build but as a Full DPS Does 34k+ DPS, Spectre isnt a DPS yet does 48k DPS

28k In a Full berserker set up isnt Ok. in the slightest, by this games balancing standards.

i've played many MMORPGS where people screech Beta.. it never changes.. it comes out just as Bad....

it has Potiental in SPVP.. but nothing more then that.. and thats if it even bothers to capitlize on what it could be

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

10 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

the Damage of hammer isnt Ok. its Pathetic.

28k as a TOp parse is Abysmally pathetic... u cant say "oh its ok" Look at the COMPARITIVE before saying somethings OK.

Support Boon Herald does 30k DAMAGE WITH AUTO ATTACKS ONLY. how can u say comitting to a FULL DPS build on Hammer + Full Rotations and say 28k Is fine?! Why is so hard to unstand a Comparitive. im comparing Hammer to Speccs with EQUAL SUPPORTING CAPABILITY AS HAMMER.

other Weapons which arent PURE DPS.

Scourge. isnt a DPS. yet does like 36k DPS, Herald isnt a DPS. yet does 30k+ Depending on the Rotation u do, Scrapper isnt a DPS FOcused build but as a Full DPS Does 34k+ DPS, Spectre isnt a DPS yet does 48k DPS

28k In a Full berserker set up isnt Ok. in the slightest, by this games balancing standards.

i've played many MMORPGS where people screech Beta.. it never changes.. it comes out just as Bad....

it has Potiental in SPVP.. but nothing more then that.. and thats if it even bothers to capitlize on what it could be

Again, what is the point of another DPS spec?

[Puck.3697]

25 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Again, what is the point of another DPS spec?

 

U are aware, the Reason Unleashed is tied to hammer is because they want hammer to be the Prime New toy for This specc Right?.. they said this in the Deep dive of the Specc and Admitted they want this Specc to use Hammer.

it wont use hammer in PvE if its DPS is Super low while bringing a Worthless Role to the team, no content in PvE Requires a Specific player to Dedicate to CC. the unleashed mechanic is Primarily Used as a Pure DPS State. a State only accessible through hammer.. it also brings no offensive or Defensive Support.

it is Reasonable to assume.. its PvE role is basically to be a Pure DPS off these grounds.. because the fact is..Why release Unleashed a PURE DPS STATE F5 onto a Weapon NOT INTENDED to do damage, ur concept of what hammer is susposed to be.. conflicts with the Actual Design assossiated with it.

your correct, Hammer shouldnt be a Pure DPS Weapon. HOWEVER.. the UNLEASHED State SHOULD BE as it is designed to be exactly that.

and as the Pure DPS unleashed state is Directly put on hammer, YES its DPS needs buffing. ur Unleashed state forfeits ALL CC ability. and leaves u with NO UTILITY.. on a SQUISHY SPECC that takes INCREASED Damage.

high risk high reward should be a factor here.

Unleashed GS mechanic offers CC, Utility, Mobility and Higher Damage.

Unleashed hammer mechanically offers only DPS

why should GS OutDPS it?

so either

1) every weapon gets a Unleashed State

or

2) Make hammer Unleashed Good.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

42 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

U are aware, the Reason Unleashed is tied to hammer is because they want hammer to be the Prime New toy for This specc Right?.. they said this in the Deep dive of the Specc and Admitted they want this Specc to use Hammer.

it wont use hammer in PvE if its DPS is Super low while bringing a Worthless Role to the team, no content in PvE Requires a Specific player to Dedicate to CC. the unleashed mechanic is Primarily Used as a Pure DPS State. a State only accessible through hammer.. it also brings no offensive or Defensive Support.

it is Reasonable to assume.. its PvE role is basically to be a Pure DPS off these grounds.. because the fact is..Why release Unleashed a PURE DPS STATE F5 onto a Weapon NOT INTENDED to do damage, ur concept of what hammer is susposed to be.. conflicts with the Actual Design assossiated with it.

your correct, Hammer shouldnt be a Pure DPS Weapon. HOWEVER.. the UNLEASHED State SHOULD BE as it is designed to be exactly that.

and as the Pure DPS unleashed state is Directly put on hammer, YES its DPS needs buffing. ur Unleashed state forfeits ALL CC ability. and leaves u with NO UTILITY.. on a SQUISHY SPECC that takes INCREASED Damage.

high risk high reward should be a factor here.

Unleashed GS mechanic offers CC, Utility, Mobility and Higher Damage.

Unleashed hammer mechanically offers only DPS

why should GS OutDPS it?

so either

1) every weapon gets a Unleashed State

or

2) Make hammer Unleashed Good.

Why do you think it will have a PvE role? Why would you make another spec to do worse than what we already have? Why would you make a spec to do better than what we already have?

There's already a DPS/Support spec and a Support spec that can be used in PvE for either role you may desire. 

The Hammer is for PvP thus far. It does need work. But the spec works nicely with other weapons in PvE too, it's the best buff the LB has ever gotten with Fervent Force.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Scourge. isnt a DPS. yet does like 36k DPS

For scourge to reach 36k dps it has to build for dps thought... Which make your comparaison not so relevant.

No, the issue of Untamed, is that dps or not, it's "numbers" are not up there. As a matter of fact the "numbers" that soulbeast output are just plain better for any role that the Untamed could want to take.

1. The spec was sold as a frontline bruiser yet a soulbeast merely merging with a brown bear would do a better job, in survivability/damage/control, at being a frontline bruiser than Untamed as a whole.
2. The spec isn't competitive (even among the ranger specs) as a power DPS as a soulbeast merged with whatever ferocious pet you like would still do better than both Untamed and it's pet combined, and the soulbeast would even boasted better survivability. (same goes for condi dps just change to pet to deadly type)
3. The spec isn't competitive as a support (and thus even as a tank) because it's support options are marginal bringing barely anything more than a core ranger would bring. Again a sooulbeast is able to effortlessly do better than the Untamed at this job.

As far as I've seen the spec doesn't distinguish itself in any way be it in sPvP, WvW or PvE. It doesn't have anything especially attractive (somehow it even have color schemae that are repulsive more than attractive), the "new" pet UI make pet control worse than ever, the utility skills aren't exciting and the whole 2nd skillset on hammer feel more like they half assed the spec than anything.

The conclusion is that Untamed is plain worse than Soulbeast in every area of the game while soulbeast isn't even outstanding in any area of the game as it is.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Why do you think it will have a PvE role? Why would you make another spec to do worse than what we already have? Why would you make a spec to do better than what we already have?

Heres a Easy answer Ok.

Core Ranger is terrible in PvE content. it is a Pure DPS With no utility will very low PvE DPS Compared to todays Elite Speccs.

Soulbeast is  OK in PvE but underperforms, the Specc Does 36k DPS While offering 0 Utility, it effective is a Weaver.. Doing less DPS then even Weaver does.. and Weavers Benched because its DPS is too low for a Pure DPS even.

so right now. we have no PvE Specc. thats actually desired in PvE Content.

so why would i not wish Untamed to actually give us a PvE Role outside of being Druid Jail?

[Telgum.6071]

15 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

so right now. we have no PvE Specc.

Having 36k on soulbeast in both power and condi while also having druid required on every single boss raid, this sentence feels like denial of reality.

[Puck.3697]

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

For scourge to reach 36k dps it has to build for dps thought... Which make your comparaison not so relevant.

Actually no.

Im comparing Zerker Untamed to Viper Scourge. this is a Pure DPS to DPS Comparison. What im saying is Untamed Does 28k DPS in its highest DPS iteration so far, (29k i think in 1 Condi build) While only offering CC.while Scourge can have several Support builds while also bringing a high DPS Option. saying this in EoD.. with the other speccs doing 45-50k DPS.. i guess u could argue Scourges DPS will become largely irrelevant also

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

No, the issue of Untamed, is that dps or not, it's "numbers" are not up there. As a matter of fact the "numbers" that soulbeast output are just plain better for any role that the Untamed could want to take.

The only thing that matters in PvE is boon uptime and DPS. Flavor/Fun/Enjoyability/complexity, is irrelevant. No one cares if ur having fun. u'll be benched if u dont Compete

Right now Untamed competes on 0 Fronts. and Soulbeast? lmao... what we living in Fractal meta a year ago?.. no one wants Soulbeast either lmao. It fixs the Pet bugs by removing the pet sure, but im sorry.. but what Content would u take either of these Speccs

It offers no utility, no Supportive boons, no barrier no healing.

Soulbeast has CC, its a Redundent role.

theres no reason a CC Specc needs to do low DPS in PvE.. its factual, its role isnt vital enough and no other speccs punished in such a way.

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The spec was sold as a frontline bruiser yet a soulbeast merely merging with a brown bear would do a better job, in survivability/damage/control, at being a frontline bruiser than Untamed as a whole.

well yeah. they also called catalyst a Front line Bruiser While giving it 0 Survivability also?  and Scrappers a Front line bruiser which Out DPS's both these lol, Front line bruiser is them just saying (This Speccs Melee focused!)

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The spec isn't competitive (even among the ranger specs) as a power DPS as a soulbeast merged with whatever ferocious pet you like would still do better than both Untamed and it's pet combined, and the soulbeast would even boasted better survivability. (same goes for condi dps just change to pet to deadly type)

well yeah

it trades 10k DPS to get 1 Additional CC Ability in a game not designed to need a Specific person to utilise CC. when was the last tiem we saw a group ask a warrior to forfeit its DPS to provide CC? oh right Never. because its NEVER BEEN A ROLE. how many PvP Warriors forfeit their DPS for CC? NONE. because again this games been so bulked up at this point Most Pure DPS Speccs bring a Ton of CC Alone.

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

sPvP

well if it gets better it actually will, Remove the CD off F5 and remove the shared CDs the specc would actually have good functionality as a Side noder with boon rip capabilities and more avaliable to it effectively.

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

WvW

its a Pet specc so was never gonna Succeed here.

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

PvE

Because it has no DPS.. and no Supportive boons / Healing.

DPS is the focus of PvE Effectively... people want the highest DPSers in there group and with no Role for a CC based Specc.. yeah ofcourse it wont.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

15 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Having 36k on soulbeast in both power and condi while also having druid required on every single boss raid, this sentence feels like denial of reality.

Nvm, i actually forgot to write on druid.. either way The fact the only thing holding us in meta is the fact we can spend our lives with only ever filling a healing role doesnt appease everyone.

36k DPS Soulbeast. why u want a 36k DPS Specc? game has 42k DPSers with more utility. please dont act like Soulbeast is a PvE meta choice. 36k isnt that high anymore im afraid not for a Pure DPS with very little Utility.

Berserker, Renegade, Chrono, Dragonhunter all better options.

Soulbeast is good.. because its rangers Only option.. not because its actually as good as the other proffessions.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

29 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Heres a Easy answer Ok.

Core Ranger is terrible in PvE content. it is a Pure DPS With no utility will very low PvE DPS Compared to todays Elite Speccs.

Soulbeast is  OK in PvE but underperforms, the Specc Does 36k DPS While offering 0 Utility, it effective is a Weaver.. Doing less DPS then even Weaver does.. and Weavers Benched because its DPS is too low for a Pure DPS even.

so right now. we have no PvE Specc. thats actually desired in PvE Content.

so why would i not wish Untamed to actually give us a PvE Role outside of being Druid Jail?

Core is fine in PvE. Raids not, but that is a small part of PvE.

Soulbeast is fine. 36k is not underperforming. Everything above that is over performing.

Weaver is the highest DPS in the game right now lol wtf.

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Weaver is the highest DPS in the game right now lol wtf.

on golem. Not in a Real fight. its actually proven the Weavers golem fight is Actually impossible to replicate on 90% of competitive Content right now due to how it actually plays... Stop reading Golem Logs as if they're a Realistic Vision of Actual DPS Numbers because they arent.

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Soulbeast is fine. 36k is not underperforming. Everything above that is over performing.

The Line of Balance is the Average DPS... not the DPS U think it should be. it dont matter fi u wanna call it overperforming. its a Bar Multiple proffessions Meet. u cant hjave 8 proffessions do 50k and 1 do 30k and Say its fine because u beleive the other 8 should be Nerfed.. What matters is the fact they ARENT NERFED. and by NOT NERFING THEM Anets Actions Show its what they wanted.

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Core is fine in PvE. Raids not, but that is a small part of PvE.

Core isnt good in fractals either.

Im sorry are u another whos gonna say "BUH ITS GOOD IN OPEN WORLD".. no one cares about Open world where balance is concerned.

Its Soo easy mode.. and So dumbed Down. u could do it Without Weapons equipt as a Ranger Lol. its LITTERALLY farmed by AFK bots Lmfao. U dont need Gear or Weapons for Open world.. its Irrelevant when balancing proffessions lmfao. honestly.. u can do Almost all of Open world by Just headbutting ur keyboard on repeat.

Please keep ur RP Rubbish out of the conversation. No one arguign about balance or Demanding changes Cares about Open world.. and even if we went there.. Renegade and Necromancer are soooo superior lmfao.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Telgum.6071]

20 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

u took it out of context where i litterally wrote barring Druid Lol.

36k DPS Soulbeast. why u want a 36k DPS Specc? game has 42k DPSers with more utility. please dont act like Soulbeast is a PvE meta choice.

Berserker, Renegade, Chrono, Dragonhunter all better options.

So...? It is not like you get kicked from squads for playing Soulbeast DPS. Unless you want to max the squad damage for some weird personal achievement (in which case you would drop almost every DPS except for BS and the top power dps), Soulbeast is perfectly valid meta choice.

Following your logic, why would the top second DPS be a valid meta option when you could just play the top one.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Puck.3697]

12 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

So...? It is not like you get kicked from squads for playing Soulbeast DPS. Unless you want to max the squad damage for some weird personal achievement (in which case you would drop almost every DPS except for BS and the top power dps), Soulbeast is perfectly valid meta choice.

Following your logic, why would the top second DPS a meta option when you could just play the top one.

im afraid Pugs Dont work in this fashion at all.

In a Pug u minimize Fail rates, which means u pick the highest DPS Options lemme give a Example

if Class A Does 35k DPS

and Class B Does 45k DPS.

assuming every player is Terrible at the game (Which u should. because in most circumstances u are correct in stating this) so ur gonna aim for everyone in ur group to do 25-28k DPS and no where near potientasl. Class B Can achieve those numbers with a Lower Percentile.

So yes. If Played well Every proffession Specc and build can do all content in the game. but thats not whats considered. whats considered is. What Kills the boss the Fastest, the Easiest and What can bring the Most value from a Lowest Denominator (Player Skill)

the fact Soulbeast brings no utility (Supportive boons / Healing Barrier) Puts it in a bad place to begin with. ur Scrapper can auto attack the boss and generate 3k Barrier Per minute. which is by MASSES more valuable then the average Soulbeasts DPS ability. and even then u can wipe out the Number.. because u look at failure Rates

is Reaper easier to learn then Soulbeast, Yes. can both do above the DPS Needed to do the fight Yes, Is someone more likely to play Reaper to a higher caliber then Soulbeast? Again Yes. so in the average PuG a Reaper would be more successful then Soulbeast.

so no. in a Average PuG Soulbeast isnt valued Very highly against Multiple Speccs which you as the Leader can pull higher Value from in the worst case scenerios. Nor is it used in Top performing Raids because it isnt actually a Meta Choice.. its Just a good Choice.

Pure DPSers are NEVER meta. and Never that largely valued.. how many times in average groups do u see people using the Pure DPS Variant of DH?.. Never lol, because the Pure DPS Variant of DH Is too micromanaging on Smaller details to actually perform by the average Player. Pure DPSers are for the golem. not for real fights. When every specc Does Above the minimum damage to clear Bosses they lose their value Entirely.

Support Options do too much Damage for u to seriously consider taking a Pure DPS. hence why weaver Isnt all that accepted either. its a Redundent role. because the power creep of the game Is soo vast that Content is Squished by 50 percentile Parses. for Pure DPS to have a Existing role support Proffessions Damage would need nerfing down to a Point where u cant Just clear raids on them alone.

This day and age, if u wanna play DPS.. u should choose BS Berserker, Chronomancer, Scourge, Renegade or DH/Firebrand. because their Multiple choice Speccs which fill a large amount of Roles increasing ur chances to get into a Group..all while easily being able to do high enough DPS To clear raids while Providing the Most value.

U can call any proffession build and specc in the game viable in PvE.. because encounters and more have become sooo weak comparitively.. Litterally a Raid of level 74s Cleared the Raids, so setting the bar on that Just isnt good enough.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

8 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

on golem. Not in a Real fight. its actually proven the Weavers golem fight is Actually impossible to replicate on 90% of competitive Content right now due to how it actually plays... Stop reading Golem Logs as if they're a Realistic Vision of Actual DPS Numbers because they arent.

The Line of Balance is the Average DPS... not the DPS U think it should be. it dont matter fi u wanna call it overperforming. its a Bar Multiple proffessions Meet. u cant hjave 8 proffessions do 50k and 1 do 30k and Say its fine because u beleive the other 8 should be Nerfed.. What matters is the fact they ARENT NERFED. and by NOT NERFING THEM Anets Actions Show its what they wanted.

Core isnt good in fractals either.

Im sorry are u another whos gonna say "BUH ITS GOOD IN OPEN WORLD".. no one cares about Open world where balance is concerned.

Its Soo easy mode.. and So dumbed Down. u could do it Without Weapons equipt as a Ranger Lol. its LITTERALLY farmed by AFK bots Lmfao. U dont need Gear or Weapons for Open world.. its Irrelevant when balancing proffessions lmfao. honestly.. u can do Almost all of Open world by Just headbutting ur keyboard on repeat.

Same goes for literally every spec, you can't recreate golem vacuum damage done in real encounters.

The average DPS of all the benchmarked specs on snowcrows is below Power Soulbeast. It's around 33k.

Even Core trapper is fine for T4 fractals, not CM, but T4 is not hard either.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

im afraid Pugs Dont work in this fashion at all.

In a Pug u minimize Fail rates, which means u pick the highest DPS Options lemme give a Example

if Class A Does 35k DPS

and Class B Does 45k DPS.

assuming every player is Terrible at the game (Which u should. because in most circumstances u are correct in stating this) so ur gonna aim for everyone in ur group to do 25-28k DPS and no where near potientasl. Class B Can achieve those numbers with a Lower Percentile.

So yes. If Played well Every proffession Specc and build can do all content in the game. but thats not whats considered. whats considered is. What Kills the boss the Fastest, the Easiest and What can bring the Most value from a Lowest Denominator (Player Skill)

the fact Soulbeast brings no utility (Supportive boons / Healing Barrier) Puts it in a bad place to begin with. ur Scrapper can auto attack the boss and generate 3k Barrier Per minute. which is by MASSES more valuable then the average Soulbeasts DPS ability. and even then u can wipe out the Number.. because u look at failure Rates

is Reaper easier to learn then Soulbeast, Yes. can both do above the DPS Needed to do the fight Yes, Is someone more likely to play Reaper to a higher caliber then Soulbeast? Again Yes. so in the average PuG a Reaper would be more successful then Soulbeast.

so no. in a Average PuG Soulbeast isnt valued Very highly against Multiple Speccs which you as the Leader can pull higher Value from in the worst case scenerios. Nor is it used in Top performing Raids because it isnt actually a Meta Choice.. its Just a good Choice.

Pure DPSers are NEVER meta. and Never that largely valued.. how many times in average groups do u see people using the Pure DPS Variant of DH?.. Never lol, because the Pure DPS Variant of DH Is too micromanaging on Smaller details to actually perform by the average Player. Pure DPSers are for the golem. not for real fights. When every specc Does Above the minimum damage to clear Bosses they lose their value Entirely.

Support Options do too much Damage for u to seriously consider taking a Pure DPS. hence why weaver Isnt all that accepted either. its a Redundent role. because the power creep of the game Is soo vast that Content is Squished by 50 percentile Parses. for Pure DPS to have a Existing role support Proffessions Damage would need nerfing down to a Point where u cant Just clear raids on them alone.

Easy answer. Don't play with pugs, get a group of friends who like it casual.

But in actual fact, I don't see this at all. I just post LFG for casual runs and we breeze through T4s in an hour because people are playing things they enjoy and have easy rotations and sustain. 

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Same goes for literally every spec, you can't recreate golem vacuum damage done in real encounters.

but In actual Fights... Weaver isnt the top. yes every specc loses damage in Real encounters but the point is Weavers build on the golem ISNT VIABLE IN REAL FIGHTS. the other speccs are VIABLE IN REAL FIGHTS. the Weaver builds in Real encounters Use Sword / focus. Not Dagger. which its parse is FAR LOWER then Dagger on the golem the Parse ur reading isnt Realistic Because it ISNT USED lol.

2 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

The average DPS of all the benchmarked specs on snowcrows is below Power Soulbeast. It's around 33k.

The Average DPS on all bosses is 25k DPS according to logs and more Of killed bosses for pretty much every Specc in the game :P. cause most players never get past 25k DPS. but the DPS Required to kill bosses in PvE is so low compared to the proffessinos potiental DPS Its irrelevant.

4 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Even Core trapper is fine for T4 fractals, not CM, but T4 is not hard either.

again as stated

The game is so power crept level 74s Cleared Raids.. Yes any proffession and build can kill raids but Its irrelevant.. Thats not good enough when the games Requiremenets are so low to the floor. It doesnt actually mean u invite the Worst options because of that. no one works in that fashion.

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Easy answer. Don't play with pugs, get a group of friends who like it casual.

so ur answer is to make 24 Friends who all play the same hours as u and able to attend things at the same moments as u?.. im afraid i work on Non-Static Hours. so that isnt a Reasonable request for me.. my hours of play drastically change week to week and Sometimes at last minute notice.

PuGs are far easier to access for people without fixed Days off or hours of work.

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

But in actual fact, I don't see this at all. I just post LFG for casual runs and we breeze through T4s in an hour because people are playing things they enjoy and have easy rotations and sustain. 

not even twitch streamers reflect this sorta behaviour lmfao.. u can watch any of them.. they all in level 100 and stuff Ask for Specfiic proffessions to add boons Meta Siters and More didnt become Successful  because the vast majority of the game Dont care about it. to try arguign "boons dont matter just play whatever Specc u wanna play. we'll just stack 5 Pure DPSers and Not care" isnt the average Pug leaders behaviour by a mile.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125