Untamed Hammer damage is OK on the Golem.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

9 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

...The game is so power crept level 74s Cleared Raids.. Yes any proffession and build can kill raids...

You just defeated every statement you previously made in two sentences.

You say the game is power crept, yet you are advocating for more power creep. And you state any class can do raiding with what they already have. Yet you also claim Ranger has no PvE spec. Why do we need a PvE spec if we can already Raid with two specs and OW is faceroll? If Soulbeast at 36k is not enough and you claim the game is power crept, why advocate for more, rather than nerfing those over performers? And how did the level 74s clear raids if they couldn't even run the Meta builds?

Edited November 3, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

not even twitch streamers reflect this sorta behaviour lmfao.. u can watch any of them.. they all in level 100 and stuff Ask for Specfiic proffessions to add boons Meta Siters and More didnt become Successful  because the vast majority of the game Dont care about it. to try arguign "boons dont matter just play whatever Specc u wanna play. we'll just stack 5 Pure DPSers and Not care" isnt the average Pug leaders behaviour by a mile.

So quit following and make your own group. This stuff isn't hard. You seem very very fixated on following what other people do and doing what they tell you. Perhaps it is time for you to just let go of that and enjoy the game instead of treating it like a chore to be completed as quickly as possible. 

[Telgum.6071]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

So yes. If Played well Every proffession Specc and build can do all content in the game. but thats not whats considered. whats considered is. What Kills the boss the Fastest, the Easiest and What can bring the Most value from a Lowest Denominator (Player Skill)

 

Not true. I've been doing active raids for the last year and I haven't meet yet this "not optimal DPS, kicked". Is so easy to get into raid and watch that every player brings whatever class they want for DPS, unless the commander wants some specific class for a certain utility, like scourge/epidemic.

7 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

so no. in a Average PuG Soulbeast isnt valued Very highly against Multiple Speccs which you as the Leader can pull higher Value from in the worst case scenerios. Nor is it used in Top performing Raids because it isnt actually a Meta Choice.. its Just a good Choice.

Average pug soulbeast is valued the same that every other DPS because what pugs ask is for a DPS, not "top DPS + high value + utility". I don't know why are you trying to convince me otherwise when every player can confirm that what you say is wrong by just doing a weekly clear.

22 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

This day and age, if u wanna play DPS.. u should choose BS Berserker, Chronomancer, Scourge, Renegade or DH/Firebrand. because their Multiple choice Speccs which fill a large amount of Roles increasing ur chances to get into a Group..all while easily being able to do high enough DPS To clear raids while Providing the Most value.

Here is the problem. Is ok to think like that if you want to run that kind of "elitist" runs to maximize damage and therefore, reduce the time invested on each boss. But your opinion is one thing, and reality is another.

[Puck.3697]

4 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You just defeated every statement you previously made in two sentences.

You say the game is power crept, yet you are advocating for more power creep. And you state any class can do raiding with what they already have. Yet you also claim Ranger has no PvE spec. Why do we need a PvE spec if we can already Raid with two specs and OW is faceroll? If Soulbeast at 36k is not enough and you claim the game is power crept, why advocate for more, rather than nerfing those over performers?

im saying. Player perception Demands More then the absolute Minimum The game is doable by every proffesion spec and choice sure. but Players Wont accept u based on that. they accept u based on what they feel makes the raid easiest.

1 minute ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

So quit following and make your own group. This stuff isn't hard. You seem very very fixated on following what other people do and doing what they tell you. Perhaps it is time for you to just let go of that and enjoy the game instead of treating it like a chore to be completed as quickly as possible. 

Meta made MMORPGS end game PvE content no fun along time ago, Making ur own group as a Pure DPS is litterally adding Quite abit of time to ur group making process. ur far better off even making ur own group Filling a Role which takes Longer to fill.. u'll get 500 DPS before u got a Capable Healer or tank in ur group. not to mention the boon roles u'd want.

if everyone took this advise. we'd all be sat in our own group.. in LFG and no one applying to one another. its not a Realistic Answer to the situation.

 

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Not true. I've been doing active raids for the last year and I haven't meet yet this "not optimal DPS, kicked". Is so easy to get into raid and watch that every player brings whatever class they want for DPS, unless the commander wants some specific class for a certain utility, like scourge/epidemic.

theres far more then just epidemic thats demanded.

Quickness, Alacrity, Aegis, Protection, Fury and Might are all needed.. ontop of this, unique Utility, Banners, Spirits, In some cases Steal raids will generally look for players to fill these as Alot of ur DPS Depends on having the boons effectively.

Then ur tanks and Healers.

7 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Here is the problem. Is ok to think like that if you want to run that kind of "elitist" runs to maximize damage and therefore, reduce the time invested on each boss. But your opinion is one thing, and reality is another.

its Not elitist or "Maximizing damage".. Its called Aknowledging the importance of boons lol. every choice i listed provides a Important boon to the group.

ur gonna honestly tryh convince me. groups Dont want Alacrity Quickness etc etc? or that Soulbeast somehow is a Option to fill those roles?

Pure DPS arent valued highly across the board which is my point But outside of Rangers Elementalist and thief. Every other proffession has a Option which fills one of those core roles ( Tank, Healer, Support/utility )

Untamed.. needs to actually have a Role. to be a Option in PvE fullstop. If its a Pure DPS, its Doomed. if its CC based its Doomed in PvE

8 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Average pug soulbeast is valued the same that every other DPS because what pugs ask is for a DPS, not "top DPS + high value + utility". I don't know why are you trying to convince me otherwise when every player can confirm that what you say is wrong by just doing a weekly clear.

Pure DPS arent valued higher.

and Sure every player does weekly clears. it doesnt confirm their soulbeast to do it however?

I could play Druid. clear all raids, Swap back to soulbeast. these are the same proffession after all

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

im saying. Player perception Demands More then the absolute Minimum The game is doable by every proffesion spec and choice sure. but Players Wont accept u based on that. they accept u based on what they feel makes the raid easiest.

Meta made MMORPGS end game PvE content no fun along time ago, Making ur own group as a Pure DPS is litterally adding Quite abit of time to ur group making process. ur far better off even making ur own group Filling a Role which takes Longer to fill.. u'll get 500 DPS before u got a Capable Healer or tank in ur group. not to mention the boon roles u'd want.

if everyone took this advise. we'd all be sat in our own group.. in LFG and no one applying to one another. its not a Realistic Answer to the situation.

 

Nah man. Advertise for casual runs, play what you want etc. The group will fill quickly with the large percentage of the player base who do not want to play cookie cutter meta builds that other people want to tell them is the only way to play. But, people do show up on HB/alacren all the time. Or, you can just use 5 Minion Reapers and faceroll it for fun. 

Fun people exist, give it a shot.

[Puck.3697]

6 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Nah man. Advertise for casual runs, play what you want etc. The group will fill quickly with the large percentage of the player base who do not want to play cookie cutter meta builds that other people want to tell them is the only way to play. But, people do show up on HB/alacren all the time. Or, you can just use 5 Minion Reapers and faceroll it for fun. 

Fun people exist, give it a shot.

They are fun sure.. but its also how i met a Quickness Firebrand, who didnt know how to Actually apply Quickness.

Wipe Gallore.

you'd be far better off using a carry build if u were to attempt running such thigns. Such as Scourge or something.

 and it still doesnt show how untameds gonna make anything any better, its still effectively.

Wanna play effectively? Play Druid

Wanna Play DPS? Play Soulbeast

Wanna PvP play Core ranger

Wanna WvWvW play soulbeast.

Untamed adds Nothing new, Nothing good, Nothing Needed, Nothing Functional. while everything around us is only getting stronger. weather u consider it OP or not.. these Speccs do 45k DPS+ and ur opinon on weather they should Is irrelevant.. the fact they are doing it is all that matters

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

11 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

They are fun sure.. but its also how i met a Quickness Firebrand, who didnt know how to Actually apply Quickness.

Wipe Gallore.

you'd be far better off using a carry build if u were to attempt running such thigns. Such as Scourge or something.

 and it still doesnt show how untameds gonna make anything any better, its still effectively.

Wanna play effectively? Play Druid

Wanna Play DPS? Play Soulbeast

Wanna PvP play Core ranger

Wanna WvWvW play soulbeast.

Untamed adds Nothing new, Nothing good, Nothing Needed, Nothing Functional. while everything around us is only getting stronger. weather u consider it OP or not.. these Speccs do 45k DPS+ and ur opinon on weather they should Is irrelevant.. the fact they are doing it is all that matters

As you said previously, none of them can actually do that damage in an encounter, so why does it matter at all? I'd say Soulbeast would look pretty favorable when you take real DPS into account. 

Anyway, yes very far off track.

Still, there is no point creating Untamed to be a PvE spec or otherwise when we already have two specs that can do that. Whether Untamed does 45k or not is, as you say, irrelevant because they can just buff Soulbeast to do that if they want. Rather than totally rework Untamed. 

There will be a balance pass after EoD launches and I guarantee, if these specs are not already nerfed before launch, they will be shortly after.

[Telgum.6071]

13 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

ur gonna honestly tryh convince me. groups Dont want Alacrity Quickness etc etc? or that Soulbeast somehow is a Option to fill those roles?

 

Is this a bad joke or something? Since when are alacrity or quickness listed as DPS? Last time I checked (two days ago) when you want alacrity, you specify ALACRITY, and when you want quickness, you specify QUICKNESS. Apart from specific roles such druid or bs, everything else is just DPS, WHATEVER DPS YOU WANT. That's the current pug meta which doesn't fit a single word you are saying here. And by the way, I'm not trying to convince you because again, what I saw is based on experience. You are just sharing your opinion.

23 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Pure DPS arent valued higher.

and Sure every player does weekly clears. it doesnt confirm their soulbeast to do it however?

I could play Druid. clear all raids, Swap back to soulbeast. these are the same proffession after all

Are all valued the same. That's why when you check the LFG, you see DPS, not specific DPS classes apart from very specific situations.

[Puck.3697]

47 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Still, there is no point creating Untamed to be a PvE spec or otherwise when we already have two specs that can do that. Whether Untamed does 45k or not is, as you say, irrelevant because they can just buff Soulbeast to do that if they want. Rather than totally rework Untamed. 

untamed doesnt need Reworking. it just needs more functionality at its current DPS/Capability there is no reason they couldnt give it something such as Barrier.. it'd even improve its own "front line bruiser" if it was given Defensive Utility capability.

45 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Is this a bad joke or something? Since when are alacrity or quickness listed as DPS?

 

well they are still DPS Speccs. they just have a second function realistically.

Heres something to account for

Strikes in EoD Are the new raids. which means Raids are being reduced to 10 man content (Read the big blog on it if u want evidence of it on the Guid wars 2 Forum)

Now. Accounting to the IDEA Of 10 man content.

Tank

Healers

2x Quickness

Boons

Alacrity

Boon Duration Increase (herald or something)

BS Warrior

thats 8/10 Lol, 2 Spaces left for Pure DPS Providing u have Ideal options for the first lot of catagories. If u bring 2 healers thats 9/10 Filled 1 space left.

ur Pure DPS wont have alot of room compared to how many play Pure DPS.

If pure DPS were soo demanded you wouldn't have people of pure DPS classes such as a weaver screeching they can't get into groups. 

There's alot of roles to fill before DPS 

Even if you run it 2 tanks 2 healers boons, boon duration, alacrity, quickness, banners, spirits, plus niche situations, defensive utility supplier. Your instantly accounting for alot of spots unavailable to a pure DPS.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

35 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

There will be a balance pass after EoD launches and I guarantee, if these specs are not already nerfed before launch, they will be shortly after.

u hope. and thats the truth here.. u hope

Every expansion DPS has gone upwards.. u pressume EoD Will be different but heres something to account for here.

Chrono Benchs 42k... with the trend of expansions why WOULDNT virt bench 45k?

Scourge a Support hybrid does 37k DPS.. but virt is a Pure DPS Like harbinger.. so these 2 would need to match anyway... and if u drop virt beneath chrono u make virt worthless and Roless because it IS a pure DPS... so harb will have to 45k DPS.

Stop passing ur Judgement of what the games DPS should Be as what the developer intends. DPS GOes up each expansion thats Factal. the dps was higher in HoT then core, the DPS in PoF was higher then it was in HoT.

The Likelyhood where chrono sits at 42k. Virt has to be higher DPS to give it its Pure DPS Place... Harb is a Pure DPS with 0 survivability like Virt so needs to follow Suit. Bladesworn again a Pure DPS with no other role will also need to match at 45k. Willbender again. a Pure DPS With no other role. needs to follow suit ontop of that.

Why are u so sure.. 45k DPS Wont be the Average for EoD DPS Speccs....

I mean Anets balancing trends.. Defintly have not shown care here realistically. theres no evidence that rly shows Anet Does balance the game at all well.

 

[Telgum.6071]

59 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Now. Accounting to the IDEA Of 10 man content.

Tank

Healers

2x Quickness

Boons

Alacrity

Boon Duration Increase (herald or something)

BS Warrior

thats 8/10 Lol, 2 Spaces left for Pure DPS Providing u have Ideal options for the first lot of catagories. If u bring 2 healers thats 9/10 Filled 1 space left.

I'm starting to think you are trolling me.

Druid

HFB + Quickness Firebrand

Alacrity

Bannerslave

Five spots covered by the average support/utility classes, save one more for a tank for the bosses where you need a tank.

Seriusly dude, what MMO are you playing that only brings TWO DPS?

Boons, boons duration? Last time I checked you have everything covered with two guardians + renegade + druid.

Herald is meta on high end content now? What game are you playing? 😄 what boons and permanent boons does Herald offer that hfb+druid doesn't.

Seriusly, I always had low expectations on these forum scholars giving ideas that are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to the real game, but this is just hilarious.

[Dadnir.5038]

5 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I'm starting to think you are trolling me.

He is not trolling you, he is foreseeing what will likely be the meta after EoD is released. A dps that don't bring anything valuable on the table will be replaced by a dps that do bring something valuable (it's been like that since HoT release). EoD add quite a few dps with extra support which will likely push pure dps in a higher competition (Which will most likely be won by the Bladesworn).

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I'm starting to think you are trolling me.

Druid

HFB + Quickness Firebrand

Alacrity

Bannerslave

Five spots covered by the average support/utility classes, save one more for a tank for the bosses where you need a tank.

Seriusly dude, what MMO are you playing that only brings TWO DPS?

Boons, boons duration? Last time I checked you have everything covered with two guardians + renegade + druid.

Herald is meta on high end content now? What game are you playing? 😄 what boons and permanent boons does Herald offer that hfb+druid doesn't.

Seriusly, I always had low expectations on these forum scholars giving ideas that are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to the real game, but this is just hilarious.

. 

. Because hear me out. 

If you take herald for boon duration and then take a mech + a renegade. Stack a spectre with a scourge and take 2x chronos. 

These players can play more DPS orientated builds. Because they only need 50% boon uptime not 100%!. Which means these guys can pump their 40k DPS loads while the team gets 100% boon duration!. 

This means u cut out support builds. By simply taking more hybridized DPS (which EoD is delievering truck loads of). 

Spectre + scourge

Renegade + mech

2x chrono tanks

Bannerslave bladesworn

Druid. 

Boon Herald 

Now get this. Spectre has a poison it gives the raid for additional DPS when they swing. Herald has a buff that makes em attack even faster. Which increases application rates. 

Ontop of this herald + 2x alacrity will uphold 100% alacrity without the need for support gear. 

Scourge + spectre + mech will between the 3 have enough barrier to remove the need for them to wear full healer set ups. 

And druid + spectre + mech will bring in all the healing needed without full healer gear. 

This means you effectively have 8 DPS in DPS gear while providing every other role!. Magical. 

Because the games now stacked so much of each buff. You overlap the boons so much that you don't need to actually retain 100% uptime yourself. You just pair up 3 with a herald and get 100% uptime that way. 

Soulbeast and untamed have no unique utility to bring or any boons. So it doesn't fit this meta direction or strat. 

So now u can see why you wouldn't invite one. Now if my forum scholar brain can work that out, I'm sure the raid teams can too. 

So how about this. 

Dont come into a feedback thread when ranger has 0 twitch representation or well 1 mukluk. Who's now swapping to engineer due to the dissapointment with untamed. 

For a proffession with 0 PvP representation one of the worst choices in WvWvW and druid carrying their raid representation and not even having a fractal build on most sites due to not being great in them since the soulbeast nerfs. 

And accuse someone of trolling you when they highlight the factor the brand new elite is already showing the current problems rangers have. 

It's glaringly obvious that untamed fixs nothing for ranger. It may at best provide a better SPVP specc. But it leaves the proffession stranded to a druid jail for another 4 years in PvE and still retaining nothing for WvWvW. 

The specc either needs some utility / supportive capability or more DPS. You cannot lift the bar of DPS to 40k plus allow such stacking of boons to make support armour redundant via team comps and leave us at 36k being our best alternative outside being a healer. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

. 

. Because hear me out. 

If you take herald for boon duration and then take a mech + a renegade. Stack a spectre with a scourge and take 2x chronos. 

These players can play more DPS orientated builds. Because they only need 50% boon uptime not 100%!. Which means these guys can pump their 40k DPS loads while the team gets 100% boon duration!. 

This means u cut out support builds. By simply taking more hybridized DPS (which EoD is delievering truck loads of). 

Spectre + scourge

Renegade + mech

2x chrono tanks

Bannerslave bladesworn

Druid. 

Boon Herald 

Now get this. Spectre has a poison it gives the raid for additional DPS when they swing. Herald has a buff that makes em attack even faster. Which increases application rates. 

Ontop of this herald + 2x alacrity will uphold 100% alacrity without the need for support gear. 

Scourge + spectre + mech will between the 3 have enough barrier to remove the need for them to wear full healer set ups. 

And druid + spectre + mech will bring in all the healing needed without full healer gear. 

This means you effectively have 8 DPS in DPS gear while providing every other role!. Magical. 

Because the games now stacked so much of each buff. You overlap the boons so much that you don't need to actually retain 100% uptime yourself. You just pair up 3 with a herald and get 100% uptime that way. 

Soulbeast and untamed have no unique utility to bring or any boons. So it doesn't fit this meta direction or strat. 

So now u can see why you wouldn't invite one. Now if my forum scholar brain can work that out, I'm sure the raid teams can too. 

So how about this. 

Dont come into a feedback thread when ranger has 0 twitch representation or well 1 mukluk. Who's now swapping to engineer due to the dissapointment with untamed. 

For a proffession with 0 PvP representation one of the worst choices in WvWvW and druid carrying their raid representation and not even having a fractal build on most sites due to not being great in them since the soulbeast nerfs. 

And accuse someone of trolling you when they highlight the factor the brand new elite is already showing the current problems rangers have. 

It's glaringly obvious that untamed fixs nothing for ranger. It may at best provide a better SPVP specc. But it leaves the proffession stranded to a druid jail for another 4 years in PvE and still retaining nothing for WvWvW. 

The specc either needs some utility / supportive capability or more DPS. You cannot lift the bar of DPS to 40k plus allow such stacking of boons to make support armour redundant via team comps and leave us at 36k being our best alternative outside being a healer. 

They will always have the same problems as Rangers have always have because it is tied to a pet. Many of us advocated for a no pet spec this time, but here we are.

They can still do that with Soulbeast by buffing the stance share system in PvE and WvW.

Unless Untamed is totally remade from scratch, which is not going to happen, then it is not going to bring a support role to PvE. 

The difference between 36k and 40k is near zero in the real world.

And you can try an optimise compositions all you like, but then go a look at the meme builds on youtube, like people using auto attack only for Dhuum or all cleric core eles for wing 1 or all bow rangers or all  minion reapers. Nothing in PvE requires optimisation.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Actually no.

Im comparing Zerker Untamed to Viper Scourge. this is a Pure DPS to DPS Comparison. What im saying is Untamed Does 28k DPS in its highest DPS iteration so far, (29k i think in 1 Condi build) While only offering CC.while Scourge can have several Support builds while also bringing a high DPS Option. saying this in EoD.. with the other speccs doing 45-50k DPS.. i guess u could argue Scourges DPS will become largely irrelevant also

The only thing that matters in PvE is boon uptime and DPS. Flavor/Fun/Enjoyability/complexity, is irrelevant. No one cares if ur having fun. u'll be benched if u dont Compete

Right now Untamed competes on 0 Fronts. and Soulbeast? lmao... what we living in Fractal meta a year ago?.. no one wants Soulbeast either lmao. It fixs the Pet bugs by removing the pet sure, but im sorry.. but what Content would u take either of these Speccs

It offers no utility, no Supportive boons, no barrier no healing.

Soulbeast has CC, its a Redundent role.

theres no reason a CC Specc needs to do low DPS in PvE.. its factual, its role isnt vital enough and no other speccs punished in such a way.

well yeah. they also called catalyst a Front line Bruiser While giving it 0 Survivability also?  and Scrappers a Front line bruiser which Out DPS's both these lol, Front line bruiser is them just saying (This Speccs Melee focused!)

well yeah

it trades 10k DPS to get 1 Additional CC Ability in a game not designed to need a Specific person to utilise CC. when was the last tiem we saw a group ask a warrior to forfeit its DPS to provide CC? oh right Never. because its NEVER BEEN A ROLE. how many PvP Warriors forfeit their DPS for CC? NONE. because again this games been so bulked up at this point Most Pure DPS Speccs bring a Ton of CC Alone.

well if it gets better it actually will, Remove the CD off F5 and remove the shared CDs the specc would actually have good functionality as a Side noder with boon rip capabilities and more avaliable to it effectively.

its a Pet specc so was never gonna Succeed here.

Because it has no DPS.. and no Supportive boons / Healing.

DPS is the focus of PvE Effectively... people want the highest DPSers in there group and with no Role for a CC based Specc.. yeah ofcourse it wont.

soulbeast can bring
1 aoe cleansing with a heal skill
2 5% dmg bonus with a frost spirit
3 5% crit chance with spotter
4 depending if its condi/power it can bring either poison stance, moa stance ( lets support rev for example take more dps ), and elite.
So soulbeast brings MASSIVE ammounts of UNIQUE utility that no other class can bring, slb is very flexible, strong and welcome in any party I make, saying it lacks utility is plain wrong.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

soulbeast can bring
1 aoe cleansing with a heal skill
2 5% dmg bonus with a frost spirit
3 5% crit chance with spotter
4 depending if its condi/power it can bring either poison stance, moa stance ( lets support rev for example take more dps ), and elite.
So soulbeast brings MASSIVE ammounts of UNIQUE utility that no other class can bring, slb is very flexible, strong and welcome in any party I make, saying it lacks utility is plain wrong.

It's not all unique tho? And sure its stances are unique. But it's outdone by several other options espically with the new elites coming 

Druid brings all those things?  And given how meta druid is it's litterally just better to bring a druid. 

Also read my comp above then you will understand my concerns here. With all the sheer DPS hybrids coming in, I think you can run a 8 DPS 2 tank comp really easily while holding up all the supportive abilities. 

Spectre, mech, scourge could go primarily pure DPS with maybe a few healing power pieces without a problem 

Renegade + mech could uphold alacrity without any boon duration increase providing you carry a herald for boon extension. 

2x chrono tanks would carry quickness. 

Druid for spirits / precision ontop. It could go a Condi build with healing jewellery. 

Then a banner slave bladesworn. 

The vast majority of these can do more DPS then soulbeast. While combining to provide all boons / support without the need to gear for it realistically. 

Given the fact spectre and bladesworn do 20k more DPS then soulbeast this comp is simply superior. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

They will always have the same problems as Rangers have always have because it is tied to a pet. Many of us advocated for a no pet spec this time, but here we are.

They can still do that with Soulbeast by buffing the stance share system in PvE and WvW.

Unless Untamed is totally remade from scratch, which is not going to happen, then it is not going to bring a support role to PvE. 

The difference between 36k and 40k is near zero in the real world.

And you can try an optimise compositions all you like, but then go a look at the meme builds on youtube, like people using auto attack only for Dhuum or all cleric core eles for wing 1 or all bow rangers or all  minion reapers. Nothing in PvE requires optimisation.

Excecpt bladesworn and spectre do 50k DPS. 

And if all 10 players are doing 40k dps because everyone can run DPS builds as they have so much stacking of boons / support. It's vastly more dramatic then your stating here

If you go against this sorta comp for soulbeast. Your scourge and more are forced to go back to healing gear, your alac providers will need boon increase stats. Reducing everyone's DPS. 

We're talking a 15k odd DPS increase for 8 members of your party compared to bring a single DPS doing 36k DPS. 

I'm sorry. But it's strengths will dwindle compared to these sorts of comps in EoD. 

I don't understand where u fix it requires a full rework to have utility support. You just add it to its kit. It requires a passive. 

Renegade provides alacrity with 1 ability they just press on CD... It's this easy to tack onto a proffession. 

It doesn't require this at all and a pet specc can work. 

Just make the pet primarily supply utility while the majority of the damage comes ranger itself. 

This would reduce the impact of pet AI dramatically. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

52 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

It's not all unique tho? And sure its stances are unique. But it's outdone by several other options espically with the new elites coming 

Druid brings all those things?  And given how meta druid is it's litterally just better to bring a druid. 

Also read my comp above then you will understand my concerns here. With all the sheer DPS hybrids coming in, I think you can run a 8 DPS 2 tank comp really easily while holding up all the supportive abilities. 

Spectre, mech, scourge could go primarily pure DPS with maybe a few healing power pieces without a problem 

Renegade + mech could uphold alacrity without any boon duration increase providing you carry a herald for boon extension. 

2x chrono tanks would carry quickness. 

Druid for spirits / precision ontop. It could go a Condi build with healing jewellery. 

Then a banner slave bladesworn. 

The vast majority of these can do more DPS then soulbeast. While combining to provide all boons / support without the need to gear for it realistically. 

Given the fact spectre and bladesworn do 20k more DPS then soulbeast this comp is simply superior. 

None of the Bladesworn Benchmarks I have seen use banners on their bar, so you can't claim 56k DPS if you're losing two utility skills.

You could probably run 10 Untamed, as it is right now, with Healing Spring with blasts on WH 5 and Hammer 5, Invigorating Bond, Windborne Notes with Sanctuary Runes and still beat all the content in this game. 

You're so fixated on what is the absolutely most optimal comp possible when it really doesn't matter. This is a game. If you want to be absolutely grindset optimal, quit playing and start studying new technologies to invest the money from your second job into or something.

Edit: And if people are using these meta comps (which you have already stated suck the fun out of the game) to clear content as fast as possible to make gold, they are doing it the most sub-optimal way possible. The most optimal way is to do some overtime at your regular job and buy gems/gold, then play the game for fun and entertainment.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Puck.3697]

38 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

None of the Bladesworn Benchmarks I have seen use banners on their bar, so you can't claim 56k DPS if you're losing two utility skills.

No bladesworn does 50k DPS it was a slight overexaggeration.

38 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You could probably run 10 Untamed, as it is right now, with Healing Spring with blasts on WH 5 and Hammer 5, Invigorating Bond, Windborne Notes and still beat all the content in this game. 

Yes its been stated multiple times. as the game is right now, level 74s cant Finish raids. that doesnt mean we should be happy being bottom feeders.

38 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You're so fixated on what is the absolutely most optimal comp possible when it really doesn't matter.

It does matter. It Effects ur accessibility to the game, Arguing "well just only ever do your own groups" is the slowest way to realistically play the game. compared to someone open to do either.

38 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

If you want to be absolutely grindset optimal, quit playing and start studying new technologies to invest the money from your second job into or something.

Or.. we can simply Demand a Company we invest money into gives a kitten about the proffession we play maybe. instead of Paying RL Cash to be Mocked.  this idea of "oh who cares... dont worry, balance dont matter blahblah" is ridiculous. your giving ur Hard earned cash to a Company who cant care enough to ensure its Proffessions are at minimum competitive against one another.

I aint saying balance has to be 100%. but im saying. a Primarily Pure DPS With some CC Shouldnt be getting taxed to 28k DPS while ur healing/Barrier/high mobility Spectre is Outputting 50k DPS.

This is so illogical, honesty. the concept of just being Happy with being F**ked over by the company ur handing cash to, Balance is a Expectation. MMORPGS are susposed to be As balanced as Possible.. and im here to say u cant balance this better then a god kitten 22k DPS Gap between 2 New Elites.

bring the whole game down to Untamed. or bring Untamed uptoo the bar, I dont care which way they go on this. it Just needs to be competitive.

we are Paying consumers. to a Service, Like honestly.. With this sorta mindset Im curious to if Anet could announce ranger isnt getting aNew Elite or any new Features and u'd still try defending this Lmfao, its Ok to ask for things to be balanced.

I aint asking em to Rework the Specc.. If they have to Delete Untamed and use the saved time to invest into Soulbeast. Litteraly im not asking for much here. I have no problem. having 0 New Elites. providing we get a Competitive Option against The other proffessions New elites.

at the end of the day.

If Soulbeast is buffed up to the standard the new elites Set i wont care about untamed. I dont actually give 2 damns About which specc is buffed. just buff one of them.. Heck buff DPS Druid for all i care Lmfao. go throw Untameds Elite into the Druid Trait tree.. and Let us go turn into a DPS Druid Its cool. im not fussed.

i will go play core Ranger for the next 3 expansions if Its competitive with the other Speccs, Like to ask for 1 DPS Option thats on par with the New Elites realistically aint alot to ask for. Espically when proffessions like Mesmer get 2 42k+ DPS Options.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

17 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No bladesworn does 50k DPS it was a slight overexaggeration.

Yes its been stated multiple times. as the game is right now, level 74s cant Finish raids. that doesnt mean we should be happy being bottom feeders.

It does matter. It Effects ur accessibility to the game, Arguing "well just only ever do your own groups" is the slowest way to realistically play the game. compared to someone open to do either.

Or.. we can simply Demand a Company we invest money into gives a kitten about the proffession we play maybe. instead of Paying RL Cash to be Mocked.  this idea of "oh who cares... dont worry, balance dont matter blahblah" is ridiculous. your giving ur Hard earned cash to a Company who cant care enough to ensure its Proffessions are at minimum competitive against one another.

I aint saying balance has to be 100%. but im saying. a Primarily Pure DPS With some CC Shouldnt be getting taxed to 28k DPS while ur healing/Barrier/high mobility Spectre is Outputting 50k DPS.

This is so illogical, honesty. the concept of just being Happy with being F**ked over by the company ur handing cash to, Balance is a Expectation. MMORPGS are susposed to be As balanced as Possible.. and im here to say u cant balance this better then a god kitten 22k DPS Gap between 2 New Elites.

bring the whole game down to Untamed. or bring Untamed uptoo the bar, I dont care which way they go on this. it Just needs to be competitive.

we are Paying consumers. to a Service, Like honestly.. With this sorta mindset Im curious to if Anet could announce ranger isnt getting aNew Elite or any new Features and u'd still try defending this Lmfao, its Ok to ask for things to be balanced.

I aint asking em to Rework the Specc.. If they have to Delete Untamed and use the saved time to invest into Soulbeast. Litteraly im not asking for much here. I have no problem. having 0 New Elites. providing we get a Competitive Option against The other proffessions New elites.

at the end of the day.

If Soulbeast is buffed up to the standard the new elites Set i wont care about untamed. I dont actually give 2 damns About which specc is buffed. just buff one of them.. Heck buff DPS Druid for all i care Lmfao. go throw Untameds Elite into the Druid Trait tree.. and Let us go turn into a DPS Druid Its cool. im not fussed.

i will go play core Ranger for the next 3 expansions if Its competitive with the other Speccs, Like to ask for 1 DPS Option thats on par with the New Elites realistically aint alot to ask for. Espically when proffessions like Mesmer get 2 42k+ DPS Options.

I'm sure ANet consider 36k Soulbeast and 42k Virtuoso pretty balanced, like how close do you think it should be? How close do you think they can get? How much difference is there in reality? If you have a benchmarker playing a Soulbeast and a person with less experience playing the virtuoso, what will be the difference? 

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I'm sure ANet consider 36k Soulbeast and 42k Virtuoso pretty balanced, l

Based on what exactly?.. why do u beleive virt should be 8k DPS higher then Soulbeast?.

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

How close do you think they can get?

Well considering:

Condi Daredevil 40k

Condi Renegade 40k

Mirage 40k

DH 40k

Firebrand 39k

Condi and hybrid Weaver 38k

Why cant they get Soulbeast closer, they've repeatively shown they can actually do this. Or are u forgetting Soulbeast was 38k Prior Soulbeasts Nerfs... Revert the Nerfs and we'll be Almost there alone.

5 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

If you have a benchmarker playing a Soulbeast and a person with less experience playing the virtuoso, what will be the difference? 

If this is true it means virt would be even higher tho? XD

im sorry but if u think 8k Gap is the smallest they can get ur wrong. they can get it closer, the issue is they arent interested in doing so. Soulbeast was Nerfed.. for litterally 0 reason.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Based on what exactly?.. why do u beleive virt should be 8k DPS higher then Soulbeast?.

Well considering:

Condi Daredevil 40k

Condi Renegade 40k

Mirage 40k

DH 40k

Firebrand 39k

Condi and hybrid Weaver 38k

Why cant they get Soulbeast closer, they've repeatively shown they can actually do this. Or are u forgetting Soulbeast was 38k Prior Soulbeasts Nerfs... Revert the Nerfs and we'll be Almost there alone.

 

If this is true it means virt would be even higher tho? XD

Math that again mate.

If they wanted it to be closer, they would make it closer. Complaining about this is like complaining a car manufacturer doesn't make the car you want in the color you want. 

Wat? What I'm saying is that 6k DPS difference will be all but nullified by player skill levels and is not worth agonizing over.

But yeah, just revert the Sic Em nerf for PvE and make Leader of the Pack 10 targets with the full extended duration in WvW and PvE. Done.

[Puck.3697]

9 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Wat? What I'm saying is that 6k DPS difference will be all but nullified by player skill levels and is not worth agonizing over.

considering the average player isnt even making 15k DPS Rotations Yah. Ofcourse it is.

Lemme just shoot myself in the Knee.. Because i could still move faster then Someone if i train hard enough. poretty much the same Concept.

10 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

If they wanted it to be closer, they would make it closer. Complaining about this is like complaining a car manufacturer doesn't make the car you want in the color you want. 

Exactly... but that doesnt mean we should tolerate their laziness

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

21 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

considering the average player isnt even making 15k DPS Rotations Yah. Ofcourse it is.

Lemme just shoot myself in the Knee.. Because i could still move faster then Someone if i train hard enough. poretty much the same Concept.

Exactly... but that doesnt mean we should tolerate their laziness

That just proves my point. If the average player can barely reach 1/3 of the top benchmark, what difference does 6k make? None.

You are asking ANet to base their balance decisions on the skill of the top 1% of players while most players can't even get to 30% or 50% the same numbers. At the same time as asking for a spec that does only 16% less damage to (42k to 36k) be buffed because if it does 16% less damage, it is somehow not viable? Think back to what I was saying about the skilled soulbeast vs the unskilled virtuoso. Say the Virtuoso can get to 75% of the benchmark and the skilled Soulbeast can get to 90%. What difference is there? None. 

What makes you think they do not consider it already balanced? Do you think they do not take player skill and ease of rotation into account? Do you think they have a tolerance for how balanced DPS should be between DPS specs? How much closer should it be? How much time would you like for them to invest into making each spec perfectly equal in terms of DPS?

And it's not tolerating laziness, it's just understanding that these numbers don't mean jack in real scenarios, that perfect balance is not possible and that time is a resource in short supply.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582