I want to gauge community feelings on elite specs for End of Dragons

[TagIsBad.1350]

If how you feel isn't represented in the poll, please consider writing your thoughts below!

[Nodius Caelestis.3892]

I would like them tweaked before the 4th Beta so they can receive another wave of feedback before the EoD release.

[aetemes.2603]

Tweaked and buffed is not the terms I want to use for these specs. They need to feel conceptually cool and make sense and create a new full fantasy vibe. It is not a bunch of random technical abilities you are wacking on then giving it a random pretentious name to pretend ow btw this is a rpg, where is the flair for design. 

 

These are "I don't care I just want to do my homework then go to bed I'll copy some of yours in the morning before class" especs.

 

Now the chances that they'll get more love in the future??? What's going on current ingame..does not make me optimistic...at all.

[Gibson.4036]

14 hours ago, aetemes.2603 said:

Tweaked and buffed is not the terms I want to use for these specs. They need to feel conceptually cool and make sense and create a new full fantasy vibe. It is not a bunch of random technical abilities you are wacking on then giving it a random pretentious name to pretend ow btw this is a rpg, where is the flair for design. 

 

These are "I don't care I just want to do my homework then go to bed I'll copy some of yours in the morning before class" especs.

It is interesting that the one spec I’m still interested in, Spectre, is the only one I really felt they expressed a clear design concept for.

“We we’re thinking, single target damage dealer goes support, what would single target support look like? Will people use it to defend the commander in WvW? We’d have to make it extra strong to offset being so focused.”

Combined with obvious nostalgia for GW1 shadow form there’s a clear design intent, not only in theme but in function and gameplay.

The others didn’t feel that way to me.

“What if you got BOGO legends on Rev?”

”Everybody loves a weapon that’s both a gun and a sword, right? And, well, a lot of Asian games have them!”

” You know what’d be crazy? A wizard that go BONK!”

Now, I didn’t really test most of them, so I’m willing to say this may be a failing in presentation and not design concept. But that’s how it feels to me.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Ashantara.8731]

"Tweaked/Buffed"? - More like a complete overhaul, if it was up to me.

Give me my cool Asian-style specs!

[Kolzi.5928]

I am not sold on the fantasy of a number of the specs. Either it isn't clear at all to me what it's supposed to be (catalyst) or it's a jumbled together pile of a lot of concepts or themes that don't quite mesh when you put all of them together (harbinger). It's probably a bit late in the game to address stuff like this though.

The original batch of elite specs had very prominent core fantasies and everything within them worked together really well (even in situations where the implementation was a bit lacking, like early scrapper gyros I would argue, the concepts were all great). Ever since then, things have trended towards being more esoteric, vague and disconnected with subsequent releases. Even this batch has some that deliver (the mechanist seems like it comes together really well for example), but it feels like we've come a long way since the elegant core design of reaper, chronomancer and scrapper.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Kolzi.5928
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[TagIsBad.1350]

1 minute ago, Kolzi.5928 said:

I am not sold on the fantasy of a number of the specs. Either it isn't clear at all to me what it's supposed to be (catalyst) or it's a jumbled together pile of a lot of concepts or themes that don't quite mesh when you put all of them together (harbinger). It's probably a bit late in the game to address stuff like this though.

The original batch of elite specs had very prominent core fantasies and everything within them worked together really well (even in situations where the implementation was a bit lacking, like early scrapper gyros I would argue, the concepts were all great). Ever since then, things have trended towards being more esoteric, vague and disconnected with subsequent releases. Even this batch has some that deliver (the mechanist seems like it comes together really well for example), but it feels like we've come a long way since the elegant core design of reaper, chronomancer and scrapper.

This is a really interesting opinion to me. I agree a lot with all of the core arguments - in fact one of the biggest draws of Gw2 to me when I started was how engaging and intricate the classes were, something I've seen neither WoW nor FFXIV capture. I do feel that the EOD specs do feel a bit disjointed, but I feel like it varies depending on the class. Untamed, for example, has great fantasy but a bad execution in unleashed not covering weapons besides hammer, and the hammer skills being rather lackluster. Additionally your comment on "esoteric" design stood out - it made me remember how on one of the streams the devs said Specter came out of their desire to design a single target support spec, and it does sort of feel like it's designed with that in mind first and the thief/shadow fantasy second. Great reply, thanks for sharing!

[Raolin Soulherder.3195]

36 minutes ago, Kolzi.5928 said:

I am not sold on the fantasy of a number of the specs. Either it isn't clear at all to me what it's supposed to be (catalyst) or it's a jumbled together pile of a lot of concepts or themes that don't quite mesh when you put all of them together (harbinger). It's probably a bit late in the game to address stuff like this though.

The original batch of elite specs had very prominent core fantasies and everything within them worked together really well (even in situations where the implementation was a bit lacking, like early scrapper gyros I would argue, the concepts were all great). Ever since then, things have trended towards being more esoteric, vague and disconnected with subsequent releases. Even this batch has some that deliver (the mechanist seems like it comes together really well for example), but it feels like we've come a long way since the elegant core design of reaper, chronomancer and scrapper.

Preach. 

 

I like that Anet tries to be creative with all aspects of their game, but some stuff just feels *so* off-the-wall random and out-of-left-field (ie. Catalyst, Willbender, Bladesworn, Harbinger). We've had some thematically weird stuff like Dragonhunter before, but this expac seems to load up on it. & the names are almost all strange. Each of these spec's doesn't really feel like a cohesive vision, for most of them. 

[Logos.3042]

I feel like these e-specs are very lack-luster and in many cases, miss what the community was asking for.  With HoT and PoF I was always excited about elites; EoD elites have depressed me with the course of the game... the Devs havent seemed to listen and it is super disheartening.  In another thread I saw a comment wondering if Anet even plays there own game... as sad as it is, I must agree.  

 

1: warrior does not need a 3rd elite power dps spec; community has been asking for support forever!  This cannot be fixed sadly.

2: elementalist has been begging for a spec that has more sustain and HP to survive better and allow better gear choices; Catalyst is an abject failure.  Nothing can fix this imo.  

3: guardian willbender has a theme of mobility... with literally no pay off and almost no interplay.  Its great if you want to be a fly that is constantly swatted away.  Will need mechanic or skill functional changes to make this good.  

4: mesmer is a super streamlined long range AoE but super boring and for the most part doesnt work with phantasm traits: failure. Can be solved with lots of work

5: necro is a great idea and good theme, but the elixirs are super boring and should have an offensive component.  Needs more poison on this theme also.  So far, too much given up and not enough gained.

6: revenant did get their great sword, so at least anet listened to that.  Unfortunately, the legend is again a mix of offense and defense.  Most revenant mains I know think this can be fixed with a lot more polish.  

7: Spectre did give Thieves a support spec, but it does need a lot of polish still.  

8: Mechanist seems to be the most thematic and well talked about spec.  It still needs help, being an upgraded core Ranger that has all of the normal AI issues, but I think the theme and function are all there.

9: The ranger spec I have not played and will not comment on.  

 

[Logos.3042]

On 10/31/2021 at 2:35 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

"Tweaked/Buffed"? - More like a complete overhaul, if it was up to me.

Give me my cool Asian-style specs!

Agreed :X

[ugrakarma.9416]

I dont care about pvp nerdish "numbers".... is about style, most of them i dont like it.

 

The only i give some minutes was Rev, because i always dreamed about GS rev.

 

The warrior is a copy-paste of holomancer.

[zealex.9410]

Def at the bery least tweaks in beta 4 amd i hope for design changes to overall make them feel more interesting. Not sure i would nerf or buff rn.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Other: I don't care about them so far. I only play Ele and Catalyst does not fit my style so far. I will most likely stay with tempest and hope for a new ranged elite spec that involves spammable elite fire magic skills like Searing Flames in GW1.

 

I still love the idea of an upcoming expansion and I'm sure I'm going to have a lot of fun exploring the new maps, getting the masteries and hunting down the new achievements. So, no bad feelings here.

[babak.3654]

I think some of these specs are salvageable, some honestly feel to me like they need an amount of reworking that just doesn’t seem likely, assuming the devs need to finalise them by the end of the year. Yes I know the expansion is launching in February but I doubt they can go to the wire like that. 
 

So I’m hoping for significant changes to specs like Virtuoso (where the concept is ok, it needs more synergy with core traits and some changes to how bladesongs work) in the fourth beta, because I think that’s probably broadly what they’ll be like at launch.