Obtena.7952 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said: Also (*insert kitten here*) the hundreds of people who put time and effort into building raid training communities I guess... That doesn't make sense. What I said in NO WAY impacts this part of the community because the people paying for raid clears don't want to do raids as part of that community in the first place. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Dunno where you got that from but aight, RMT is a serious issue in the Raid LFM. A post intended to draw attention to the LFM Raid section is not long after asked to be closed, lol why am I not surprised. Except you don't know that. It's completely transparent to you how 'serious' an issue RMT is there because ONLY thing you can see are some teams advertising to sell clears in LFG. Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Except you don't know that. It's completely transparent to you how 'serious' an issue RMT is there because ONLY thing you can see are some teams advertising to sell clears in LFG. Updated the parent post to show the LFM screenshot, sorry but this needs to be called out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Updated the parent post to show the LFM screenshot, sorry but this needs to be called out. You can update that screenshot all you want ... it's STILL not evidence of what you claim about RMT and it still doesn't tell you any specific data about anything except people sell raid clears. Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, Obtena.7952 said: You can update that screenshot all you want ... it's STILL not evidence of what you claim about RMT. Mmmk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Mmmk Yup MMMK is right. The only thing that screenshot tells you is that there are teams that sell raid clears. That's all. Like, somehow Anet doesn't know that LFG screen exists and you just happened to 'find' it. 🤣 Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, Obtena.7952 said: Yup MMMK is right. I mean, the only thing that screenshot tells you is that there are teams that sell raid clears. That's all. Directing to external sites is most likely RMT, Mmmk? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Directing to external sites is most likely RMT, Mmmk? So is every guild which directs players to their website, discord, teamspeak, etc. also RMTing? Sorry, I get what you want to say, but that screenshot is NOT proof of anything. It shows players using the LFG to advertise a service while directing to their guild, discord, etc. using terminology which is supposed to entice players to use the service. It is known that regular raid sell services are payed in in-game gold or materials (most often Mystic Coins). We also know that to acquire this gold or Mystic Coins players can absolutely legally purchase gems and convert those to gold/MC in game. Chances are far higher that raid sellers or players who actually spend that much money for others to assist them will use legal means to achieve their goals (given those are available), instead of risking their accounts. RMT is an issue in this game, and it has nothing or very little to do with raid selling. EDIT: and before someone asks, yes I know quite a few players who are skilled enough to sell raids (even Dhuum CM regularly). Never have I heard that any of them are RMTing or selling that gold/MC illegally. Most of them reinvest that wealth into their accounts or the game. That obviously doesn't mean there might not be some shady super skilled sellers which also RMT, but given the community is rather small by now at the top end... I'm sure word would have spread. Edited November 2, 2021 by Cyninja.2954 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: So is every guild which directs players to their website, discord, teamspeak, etc. also RMTing? Do you see a discord link from PMA? Nope. Kpsale is also a RMT vendor about 99% sure of that one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, Dravvi.3146 said: Do you see a discord link from PMA? Nope. Kpsale is also a RMT vendor about 99% sure of that one. that link from PMA literally directs you to a discord server. Takes 1 second to actually double check... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, Cyninja.2954 said: that link from PMA literally directs you to a discord server. Takes 1 second to actually double check... Mmmk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, Dravvi.3146 said: Mmmk Just saying, when you can't even be bothered to do some basic research or bother with checking up on the sites/guildes you are blaming.... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said: Just saying, when you can't even be bothered to do some basic research or bother with checking up on the sites/guildes you are blaming.... Shouldn't be linking to external sites then 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Shouldn't be linking to external sites then That's not how blame or proof works. In general in the western world we go by: The presumption of innocence is a legal principle that every person accused of any crime is considered innocent until proven guilty. Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must present compelling evidence to the trier of fact (a judge or a jury). - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence Edited November 2, 2021 by Cyninja.2954 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Directing to external sites is most likely RMT, Mmmk? Again, you don't know how much of a problem this is, other than the fact you see these advertisements. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: Hold on here ... those sellers wouldn't be 'clogging up' the LFG if that wasn't a service people wanted. So again, if you don't want them there and you believe they are a 'negative influence' on the raid scene, start undercutting them to put them out of business. Otherwise, stop swinging the banner of 'earning your keep' as a way to justify your dislike for the practice of exchanging gold for a service. I would say it fosters unhealthy behavior and helps promote the idea that raids and the achivievements are things most players cannot obtain. In other words, I think all those sales adds directly contribute to players feeling like they cannot get into raids or cannot to envoy, coalescense without paying someone and/or that they cannot get into raids without first finding a good raid guild that will train them. We all know lfg does have pugs that include training runs and people can use RA etc or join a raiding guild, however, none of that changes the impression that a player gets when looking in lfg and ALWAYS seeing tons of adds and usually not seeing any valid LFM posts in raid LFG. Im 100% sure selling raids is bad for the community. Edited November 2, 2021 by Moradorin.6217 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said: I would say it fosters an unhealthy and helps promote the idea that raids and the achivievements are things most players cannot obtain. In other words, I think all those sales adds directly contribute to players feeling like they cannot get into raids or cannot to envoy, coalescense without paying someone and/or that they cannot get into raids without first finding a good raid guild that will train them. We all know lfg does have pugs that include training runs and people can use RA etc or join a raiding guild, however, none of that changes the impression that a player gets when looking in lfg and ALWAYS seeing tons of adds and usually not seeing any valid LFM posts in raid LFG. Im 100% sure selling raids is bad for the community. Well, except the idea that raids and the achivievements are things most players cannot obtain is actually true because if it wasn't people wouldn't pay for the service. The service wouldn't exist if there wasn't a demand for it. I mean, I could advertise on LFG to 'help' someone get to level 10 for a certain amount of gold ... and not a single person would ever take me up on that service because it's not demanded. So if the demand goes away ... the service disappears or at least never gets used. The only way for individuals to do that is to offer the service for cheaper than the current sellers ... and since the OP is all about 'earning your keep' ... then in principle, he should do it for nothing. The idea that Anet come in and police LFG does NOT fix this , assuming it's a problem in the first place. Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said: There fixed that for you. It's 2021, close to 2022. The game has had an influx of new players from other MMORPGs which have started raiding without issue (predominantly WoW). There are tons of resources available online. Anyone still harping on about gatekeeping missed a dozens of memos of this is simply not being the main issue they face. Yeah yeah heard all that nonsense before, not interested in going though all that crap again. Plenty of people including some big gw2 content creators who are very good raiders acknowledge that raids have been gatekept in gw2, and have criticized the meta culture around GW2's raid content as at least part of that problem, so i'm not interested in hearing those same tired excuses anymore. End of the day, you guys killed raiding and that's something you'll have to live with, I honestly don't care enough about the content anymore to have another pointless argument about it. The topic here is run selling, raid discussion has no place outside of that. Edited November 2, 2021 by Teratus.2859 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 40 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Well, except the idea that raids and the achivievements are things most players cannot obtain is actually true because if it wasn't people wouldn't pay for the service. The service wouldn't exist if there wasn't a demand for it. I mean, I could advertise on LFG to 'help' someone get to level 10 for a certain amount of gold ... and not a single person would ever take me up on that service because it's not demanded. So if the demand goes away ... the service disappears or at least never gets used. The only way for individuals to do that is to offer the service for cheaper than the current sellers ... and since the OP is all about 'earning your keep' ... then in principle, he should do it for nothing. The idea that Anet come in and police LFG does NOT fix this , assuming it's a problem in the first place. I think people pay for those achivements for many reasons and I dont think its because they are actually unobtainable and if most players actually did raids and worked towards them and still could never complete them after solid time and effort investments then the encounter would be balanced to allow it. Thats said, I can say they are perfectly doable with effort and time. I have spoken to many players new and old and the main thing I hear from people wanting to do the collections and get into raiding: #1 response is all they see are selling adds and large KP requirements. #2 I hear is its hard to find training runs for W5, W6. The first response is all about the adds and the impression they give. I think when people want to get into a game mode and all they see are ads of people seemingly selling access to it they get a bad impression of raids and if they dont have friends to correct them they often either go ahead and pay or they move on to fractals and wvw/pvp for fun, ascended and legendary stuffs. I know I have talked to many people that do exactly that. Can you relate a view about raid sales that would change my/our minds and relate how selling raids is beneficial to the community? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 28 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: The topic here is run selling, raid discussion has no place outside of that. Then why did you bring it up? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoPinoyX.7923 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Directing to external sites is most likely RMT, Mmmk? Oh no, a link to a discord community, must be RMT. You wanna run that again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said: Shouldn't be linking to external sites then There's an ingame command that links to an external website. Should we outlaw use of /wiki? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charall.4710 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said: There's an ingame command that links to an external website. Should we outlaw use of /wiki? 30 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said: Oh no, a link to a discord community, must be RMT. You wanna run that again? Yes 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 On 10/30/2021 at 10:35 AM, Dravvi.3146 said: Recently on FFXIV there was a update to their prohibited activities policy where part of their policy showed an example of what is a bannable offense, something I personally agree with 100%. I am of the very strong and clear opinion that you should be earning your achievements and clears in guild wars 2 naturally, making it something you strive for not pay for with gold. I get that you can change gems into gold but that should not mean you buy a couple of gem cards or whatever and transfer them into gold to buy a raid clear for your legendary armor or achievements, this makes those who actually honestly earn their armor and stuff of that nature feel like their attempts were trivial. To date I've earned every bit of everything I ever got and this is why I even struggle with things such as certain bits of content, since I refuse to pay anyone to help me with it or to get a clear for something. The idea of honestly progressing your character should be what all players strive for, heres the prohibited activities update that really.. Anet needs to update to get rid of those selling runs for gold.Examples of violations:- Selling [duty] clear for 1 million gil.- Selling [duty] clear and/or offering the associated rewards from [content]. Join for more info/details. PS. If you wonder what I am talking about, check the LFG Raids Section and you will see the problem at hand or check the screenshot posted Screenshot for LFM Raid Section Hmm. Do players actually give out their Display Names/Character Names so that ArenaNet can easily ban them for RMT selling? Seems a bit odd. Or do some just suspect that they are involved with RMT selling? And, if so, are said players being reported as RMT sellers with such obvious (supposed) proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asgaeroth.6427 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 12 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said: Honestly I think at this point, the thread should just be closed since it's been played out. OP obviously has no clue about what the actual problem is with RMT and continues to blame Raid Sellers for it when the two have literally no connection. They also continue to deny the fact that this game has a major AFK Farm/Botting problem (that still gets numerous threads even to this day) and just continues to blame RMT on legit players because they hate the fact that people are able to sell their services, legitimately, for people who might not want to run raids in the game. Yes, lets just call raid sellers legit and that makes the problem go away. I am sure that the people soaking up millions of gold year after year are totally just stockpiling it and using it for benevolent purposes. Professional gold resellers in GW2 do not bot, botting in GW2 is small time. You really think running some accounts to drum up a few thousand mithril a day is perpetuating the RMTers? It takes hundreds of accounts to meet the same level of gold you get from carrying a few raids a night. RMT is exclusively centered around raids, and that is by Anet's specific design. Nothing else in the game twists arms to buy gems to the same degree as raid carry. Close the thread, move along, nothing to see here, an RMTer said the method they use to RMT isn't very effective, problems are solved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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