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personalization and outnumber suggestion


Skyzo.1297

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I cant find a suggestion section so I guess Ill post here and apologize and thx to the moderator that will move it to apropriate section

 

I was talking with someone in wvw earlier and he brought the idea of bringing weapon attack 1-5 customization like gw1 for more build diversity. I dont know if this is doable without modifying the codes too much and requiring too much dev ressources but that made me think. what if a-net brought the old trait platelet system back (If I remember right u spent pts in traits line to unlock trait slot and could collect platelet for the lower,mid,master tier and if u spent enought pts in their respective line u could slot a trait of the tier unlocked or lower tier into the slot.)

 

-even if most people just blindly follow meta, it was a great system for people who like customizing their own build to acomodate their play style the most

-if u want a trait in 1 line, u dont have to take the whole line if it doesnt benefit u only enough to get the trait for that tier and get traits for another line with remaining pts or if some higher trait in the line don't interest u but u like 2 lower tier trait of the line slot a lower tier in the superior trait slot.(a good example would be everyone like to be able to self swift but sometime the sacrifice for the trait to allow self swift substenance is too big because thats the only trait in the line that benefit your build at all so u could just put enought pts for the mid tier trait and get minor from another line with remaining pts)

-even if u had the option to buy them for gold; going side story events for trait platelet hunting with my brother instead of buying them was something I really enjoyed and lot of people I know liked it too

-keep the limit of  spending pts in only 1 elite spec line for balance purpose

 

And now the outnumbered wvw suggestion:

everyone know theres a server population balance problem and it doesn't fix itself overtime it just get worst and often lead to low population server player transfering to another higher population server just giving up on wvw increasing the gap between population number because u often get chased 5-10 vs 1, 20+ vs 2-3 everywhere in every map and often even if u manage to form a little squad of 10 the whole enemy blob come stampede u.

so what I been thinking for a while now and tought no one would like that but people I was talking with said it was a great idea so I'm gonna submit it.

-removal of outnumber buff wich anyway give u so little stat that it wont make up for the "your foes greatly outnumber you" as the tooltip say.

-implement a you greatly outnumber your foes debuff instead that would be something that already exist as an event in game and most low population server player really enjoy: "no down state"

-now the stacked population server would need to be more cautious and protect each other instead of going big group spamming brain dead dps not even bothering to dodge, rezing their downed so fast that u can forget stomping and even when u would have time to stomp u cant because they spam all cleave/aoe dps/stun like crazy on the downed while 2-3 revive it because "hey it doesn't matter if we exhaust all our utility ,attack, everything, we got 3 time their number we'll just rez each other if the enemy manage to down another guy "

 

I think that people would be less inclined to stack on a server to go kill train that way, and outnumbered server would be more inclined to play as they could actually kill some enemies instead of leaving bored of getting farmed, its not rare to see 30 people standing in front of the border spawn to gank the few ennemies on that map

 

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1 hour ago, Skyzo.1297 said:

And now the outnumbered wvw suggestion:

everyone know theres a server population balance problem and it doesn't fix itself overtime it just get worst and often lead to low population server player transfering to another higher population server just giving up on wvw increasing the gap between population number because u often get chased 5-10 vs 1, 20+ vs 2-3 everywhere in every map and often even if u manage to form a little squad of 10 the whole enemy blob come stampede u.

so what I been thinking for a while now and tought no one would like that but people I was talking with said it was a great idea so I'm gonna submit it.

-removal of outnumber buff wich anyway give u so little stat that it wont make up for the "your foes greatly outnumber you" as the tooltip say.

-implement a you greatly outnumber your foes debuff instead that would be something that already exist as an event in game and most low population server player really enjoy: "no down state"

-now the stacked population server would need to be more cautious and protect each other instead of going big group spamming brain dead dps not even bothering to dodge, rezing their downed so fast that u can forget stomping and even when u would have time to stomp u cant because they spam all cleave/aoe dps/stun like crazy on the downed while 2-3 revive it because "hey it doesn't matter if we exhaust all our utility ,attack, everything, we got 3 time their number we'll just rez each other if the enemy manage to down another guy "

Fights 5 vs 10 outnumbered

Zerg enters border and kittens off to the other side to karma train against an empty keep

Now fights 5 vs 10 with no downed state because us 5 apparently greatly outnumber the 10 enemies

Gee thanks random forum suggestion, population balance fixed. Now I enjoy not blobbing anymore.

This is why you do sanity checks on ideas because if you did, you would quickly find that outnumbered affecting random combat scenarios does not make it more fair because the outnumbered buff does not have the resolution to determine whether you are actually fighting outnumbered.

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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You may not have heard but they're already working on the server balance population problem by getting rid of servers altogether, at least permanent ones. The alliance update, at least preliminary data they received from the last unsuccesssful beta attempt showed server numbers were very close comparatively. Servers were only 2% off each other.  That's good for a first test.

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25 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

I hope they don't scrap outnumbered pips; it's the only way i can get any feeling of progress in wvw. As it is, i'm getting 3 or 4 pips per tick and that's with t6 particpation.

But they're increasing the number of pips you get when you're not outnumbered. The only people who are affected by this are people who predominantly only play on outnumbered maps.

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Just to note the outnumbered status gives no combat buffs, it's the guild claims in objectives, presence of the keep which doubles that buff, and bloodlust which gives stat increases.

 

Past three weeks have shown me again how much it sucks to be outnumbered most of the time when two fat blobs are on your map and not hitting each other, or have no blob to counter the organized boon blobs from other servers, how easy it is for those blobs to run through lesser numbers spamming pull bombs and running over everything with no fear. But no one cares and everyone wants to be in that type of easy blob instead, they don't want "that problem" fixed, they want to be on the other side. No down state wouldn't do much to those blobs anyways, you still need numbers and an organized bomb of your own to even get downs.

 

As for small scale, a friend once suggested to me that they should dynamically use the outnumbered effects to the territory zones instead of the entire map, this way they could add stats or no down state to it for those more regular smaller situations. To which I countered, but then you'll just get people fighting near territory lines to try and abuse getting the buffs. No matter what you add, people will try to get the advantage, that even happens today with players trying to fight in their own territories for the claim buffs in big fights.

 

No amount of tinkering with the outnumbered will fix this imbalance. If you're outnumbered at an objective, you need players to respond, if they won't or can't, then you lose the objective and need to move on. If you're getting into outnumbered fights that is your choice, for the most part you can avoid these, especially with the amount of stealth and mobility in the game, with yet even more mobility coming soon.

 

I don't really care about an outnumbered buff, what I wish they could have fixed all these years is give players the motivation to constantly go after other sides that have numbers on and stop the snowballing of two strongest sides picking on the weakest for easy points. The point of the three way should always be going after the strongest, if it's just going to be the two strongest after the weakest all the time why bother having more than two sides.

 

Like maybe the ppt and ppk points off the winning side in a matchup should be worth more? Like for example currently TC has 93vp, BG has 79vp, SoS has 80vp, maybe warscore points off TC would be worth 2x for BG and SoS if they have their own home bloodlust?(a trigger that can be countered and make ruins more important). I hope they plan on improving game play after this alliance and expansion mess.

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Outnumbered is as always a pricky subject with no clear solution. I understand the desire to change it, but like Dawdler and Xenesis points out very well, there are a lot of problems involved. Before they can even consider adding any kind of handicap to Outnumbered, they need to change how it works/triggers to reliably trigger in actual outnumbered situations, and not be exploitable. No easy feat.

 

Personally I really loved and still miss the old build system before the 23-06-15 patch, and personally would love to see it come back (and I personally would be willing to throw all the elite spez under the buss for that!). Yet there is no chance at all that it will ever happen, it would kitten off the pve for one thing, and I don't think the majority of wvw or pvp would enjoy it either. The change to the build system was also a sign on how ANet changed priorities, that they wanted to focus the game more on pve than pvp, and I don't see that changing.

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On 10/31/2021 at 4:13 PM, Funky.4861 said:

I hope they don't scrap outnumbered pips; it's the only way i can get any feeling of progress in wvw. As it is, i'm getting 3 or 4 pips per tick and that's with t6 particpation.

You're going to gain an extra 2 pips. When Alliances are fully implemented there should be far fewer instances of Outnumbered happening, so those pips were going to be de facto lost by everyone anyway. They're adding in +1 pip to each of the rank tiers (including rank 1-149), and another +1 to each of the war score rates for 4/5/6 instead of 3/4/5.

So after the change you'll be getting 5-6 pips per tick.

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