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My hope for next expanion's elite specs (after EoD): Racial elite specs


Diovid.9506

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I know this is a bit premature, EoD is not even out yet. And I know we don't know if there will be anymore elite specs after EoD but a man can dream.

With that out of the way. What I'm hoping for with the elite specs of the expansion after EoD is elite specs that are racially themed. We have mostly had human-inspired elite specs with a few others sprinkled in between (Renegade is Charr focused and Scrapper is sort-of Charr focused, but otherwise non-human races are not really represented). 

I myself have some vague ideas about this, but this suggestion should not be judged based on the specifics which I present below. I am not nearly creative enough to come up with the best options nor am I deeply enough entwined into GW2's endgame enough to know what would be balanced or needed for the different professions. So maybe you like the idea of racial elite specs but you disagree completely with the examples I give below, I would totally understand. In fact, I'd be quite curious about your own suggestions. 

In creating these vague contours of elite specs I put two limits on myself: 1) Each race should be given 2 elite specs (except humans, they get 1) and 2) Each race should get 2 different armor weights. With that said, here are my ideas:

 

Norn

Brawler (Revenant) (Legendary Brawler Stance → invoke Bjorn Thunderfist)

Weapon: MH+OH Focus

Theme/gameplay: Inspired by moots, keg brawl, belcher’s bluff and Kilroy Stonekin. Use punches, kicks, throws, headbuts, dives, stomps and alcohol consumption to overcome your foes. 

Utility skill type: NA

 

Shaman (Ranger)

Weapon: OH Focus

Theme/gameplay: The pet is now transparent / spiritual. It can no longer use its skills and can no longer be attacked. Activated beast skills are still performed but originate from you instead of the pet. Using F5 transforms you into a were-creature based on the active pet’s family. The transform functions as a shroud (get kicked out when reaching 0 health, get different weapon skills while in this form, the weapon skills depend on the pet family). You can still pet swap (when not in were-creature mode). 

Utility skill type: Mantra? Meditation?

 

Sylvari

Warden (Guardian)

Weapon: OH Warhorn

Theme/gameplaySylvari always had this Athurian Knight theme to them so I think Guardian fits them quite well. 

Utility skill type: Stance? Well? Banner?

 

Composter? Nightshade?  (Necromancer)

Weapon: MH sword or OH axe or OH shield

Theme/gameplay: Circle of life and death, imagine a creepy druid using natural poisons, magots, funguses, rot and the like. 

Utility skill type: Survival? Spirit? Venom? Trap? 

 

Charr

Agent? Infiltrator? Seeker? Shadow? (Thief)

Weapon: OH Torch

Theme/Gameplay: Obviously Ash Legion inspired, though with an Iron Legion bend. 

Utility skill type: Gadgets

 

Legionnaire? Sentinel? (Warrior)

Weapon: MH pistol

Theme/Gameplay: Some type of support (as an alternative to banners). More Blood Legion inspired than Ash/Iron. 

Utility skill type: Commands (function sort-of like shouts except they affect yourself and a single ally).

 

Asura

Technomancer? (Engineer)

Weapon: Staff or MH Scepter or OH Focus

Theme/Gameplay: Mixing magic and tech. Range focused. 

Utility skill type: Cantrip or Glyph

 

Chaos Magician? Maginamic? (Mesmer)

Weapon: OH Scepter

Theme/Gameplay: Studying the fundamentals of (chaotic) magic. 

Utility skill type: Cantrip or Glyph or Spectral

 

Human

Priest? (Elementalist)

Weapon: Shortbow or Longbow

Theme/Gameplay: Each F skill is themed after a god (minus Balthazar). F1 = Cold Attunement (Grenth), F2 = Water Attunement (Lyssa), F3 = Air attunement (Dwayna), F4 = Earth Attunement (Melandru) and F5 is no attunement but some sort of Kormir-related effect. Cold attunement skills function exactly the same as Fire attunement skills, they also look exactly the same except they are icy shadowy blue instead of red. In addition, the Priest has a minor trait that reads something like: “whenever a skill or trait would inflict a stack of burning, it inflicts 3 (or 2 maybe?) stacks of torment instead. If a skill or trait interacts with burning in another way, it interacts with torment instead.” 

Utility skill type: Mantra? Meditation? Consecration?

 

Edited by Diovid.9506
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3 minutes ago, Diovid.9506 said:

Theme/gameplay: Inspired by moots, keg brawl, belcher’s bluff and Kilroy Stonekin. Use punches, kicks, throws, headbuts, dives, stomps and alcohol consumption to overcome your foes. 

Isn't that warrior's e-spec: berserker?

4 minutes ago, Diovid.9506 said:

Theme/gameplay: Circle of life and death, imagine a creepy druid using natural poisons, magots, funguses, rot and the like.

That's untamed, they are even covered in poo...

 

We already have "racial" themed e-specs in renegade and scrapper (charr), mechanist (asura) and, I would say, Druid (Human as it's pretty much melandru's avatar elite skill in a more playable form). I don't think it would be necessary to "flood" the next batch of e-specs with "more" than a few elite spec inspired from racial stuff.

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11 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Isn't that warrior's e-spec: berserker?

That's untamed, they are even covered in poo...

 

We already have "racial" themed e-specs in renegade and scrapper (charr), mechanist (asura) and, I would say, Druid (Human as it's pretty much melandru's avatar elite skill in a more playable form). I don't think it would be necessary to "flood" the next batch of e-specs with "more" than a few elite spec inspired from racial stuff.

Would add holosmith as Asura themed. While the lore is tied to humans, the spec is extremely inspired by Asuran tech. Anet even admitted that they designed the spec with clear Asuran aesthetics.

I agree that I don't think we need racial elite specs, the specs should just tie into the story in some way.

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6 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Would add holosmith as Asura themed. While the lore is tied to humans, the spec is extremely inspired by Asuran tech. Anet even admitted that they designed the spec with clear Asuran aesthetics.

Pretty much this. A lot of them are... well, the text links them to the region the expansion focuses on, which has generally meant human because that's the dominant sapient species in Elona and Cantha, but it's pretty clear that the themes came from elsewhere and then they came up with a justification for it being Elonian or Canthan.

 

Working through the professions, here are my thoughts:

 

Berserker: Warriors that augment martial skill with fire are common among both the Zaishen and Flame Legion, which suggests human or charr as the initial origin point. Personally, my theory, given the animal themes that are also present, is that it was originally Flame Legion and spread to the norn during the period when the Flame Legion and the norn were relatively friendly.

Spellbreaker: I think this one was genuinely inspired by the question of "how did surviving Sunspears react to Joko's takeover", making it human. I considered charr, but despite the charr dislike of magic, there's no evidence of the charr ever trying to develop fighting styles specifically to combat it. Sylvari and asura have the more mystical sides of things, but both generally seem to eschew warrior as a profession, so I don't see them developing a spellbreaker-like specialisation.

Bladesworn: An interesting one to analyse. Combining more engineer-type stuff with warrior seems like something that the Iron or Blood Legion would be all over, but I don't think either would be adopting iaijutsu techniques or the magitech. Asura interpretation of warrior is a possibility, but since Cantha was more technologically advanced than most of Tyria in GW1, I'm willing to accept Canthan on this one.

 

Dragonhunter: A focus on hunting large game really feels like a norn interpretation of guardian to me. Braham is probably the archetypical guardian.

Firebrand: Firebrand themes combine a scholarly focus, a low-tech approach to combat, and the tome's effects are mostly elemental in nature. This makes me think it is genuinely human-oriented: asura or charr would be more technological, norn feel like they have more of an oral tradition (and norn-oriented tomes would be more likely to be invoking animal spirits) and sylvari haven't really been around long enough to have a deep literary tradition.

Willbender: There's... not really anything I can see that pins it to any race more than guardian already does. You could say that the focus on unarmed martial arts makes it Canthan-oriented, but I don't think that Canthan humans are really going to have a monopoly on that (in the real world, there were rich unarmed martial arts traditions in history pretty much everywhere, it's just that it was mostly in Asia that they gained a spiritual aspect and were preserved).

 

Herald: Arguably Glint is more associated with human history than other races, but it's probably reasonable to call Herald fairly race-independent.

Renegade: Charr. On the other hand, as has been observed, it does feel a lot like a ritualist-themed spec with a charr overlay. On the gripping hand, charr did have their own ritualists in EotN.

Vindicator: Human.

 

Druid: Human is the obvious choice - the original druids were former humans, although they apparently expanded to other races as well. It is worth noting that sylvari concepts and artwork also touched on a lot of druidic abilities, however, including being able to summon druid spirits. So it kinda works for either.

Soulbeast: Soulbeast merging really feels a bit like it's a less impressive (but more practical) variant of norn shapeshifting, essentially using the animal companion as a conduit to channel the spirit of that animal family. So I'd consider it to be norn-themed.

Untamed: The Untamed goes even heavier into plant themes than Druid does. The official lore is that it's connected to the Echovald Forest, and honestly, between Urgoz, the Wardens, and the number of plant facsimiles of animals found in the Echovald, it wouldn't surprise me if Urgoz was a Pale Tree before being petrified. So I'd lean towards sylvari, albeit possibly more Nightmare Court than regular sylvari.

 

Daredevil: Nothing that really pins it to any given race more than thief already does. Similar comments regarding martial arts as per Willbender.

Deadeye: Let's face it, it was probably the charr that invented sniping. Likely Ash Legion.

Spectre: I want to say "Canthan human" on this one, but mechanically I don't think it's actually worked out that close to assassins. They could probably have had Caithe invent this elite specialisation, or an Ash Legion operative wanting to support their team more, or a Snow Leopard shaman, and we probably wouldn't have blinked.

 

Scrapper: Mix of charr and asura. The official lore is that it's the result of charr scavengers repurposing asura and other Pact technology. 

Holosmith: Asura. We saw weaponised holotech's origins in the original game and LS1.

Mechanist: Asura. It's a golem. 'Nuff said.

 

Reaper: Reaper feels a bit like necromancer absorbed Grenth dervish, and on the whole, "dark guy with a scythe" feels like a human viewpoint of death (norn, for instance, would probably have a necromancy-enhanced raven form). 

Scourge: They claim it's linked to Joko, but did we ever actually see Joko or his loyalists using scourge-like magic? Even if they did, wouldn't that have felt like a retroactive move anyway? Not really anything in Scourge that links it to a specific race more than necromancer already does. At most, you could view it as a necromancer-ritualist merge, but charr and norn both had ritualists in GW1.

Harbinger: It's based around drinking things that you probably shouldn't. They'll probably link it to Am Fah, but it could easily have been sylvari (Nightmare Court) or asura (possibly, but not necessarily, Inquest).

 

Chronomancer: Doesn't really link to any race any more than mesmer already does. One could possibly argue that control over time and space fits into asura technology, and the mechanical nature of Horologicus could also point in that direction. However, intricate timepieces are also commonly made by humans, and asura gates and the like are already accounted for in core mesmer.

Mirage: Doesn't really link to any race more than mesmer already does. The melee focus and lack of technological applications probably pushes it more towards human, norn, or sylvari than charr or asura, but that's as far as I think it goes. 

Virtuoso: The blades taking the form of, well, blades does seem to suggest that it would be coming from one of the races with a more intuitive link to magic rather than the more scientifically minded asura that would probably focus more on charging an array of miniature asura magicannons or something, but that doesn't really narrow it down very far.

 

Tempest: Not really linked to anything more than elementalist already does. One could argue that the more primal nature leans towards races with a more intuitive approach to magic over the scientific asura, but it could probably just as easily come from a human or a sylvari.

Weaver: Not really linked to anything more than elementalist already does. One could argue that the more melee-esque nature and lack of technology leans away from being of asura origin, but beyond that nothing really pins it to a specific race. 

Catalyst: Take away the Canthan animal visuals, and it's not really linked to anything more than elementalist already does, and no race would willingly admit to having created it in the first place. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.

 

So, to summarise:

Asura: Holosmith, Mechanist, half of Scrapper (2.5)

Charr: Deadeye, renegade, half of Scrapper, half of Berserker (3)

Human: Reaper, vindicator, firebrand, bladesworn, spellbreaker, half of berserker, half of druid (6)

Norn: Dragonhunter, soulbeast (2)

Sylvari: Untamed, half of druid (1.5)

Hard to pin down: Willbender, herald, daredevil, spectre, scourge, harbinger, chronomancer, mirage, virtuoso, tempest, weaver, catalyst. (12)

 

If you take into account that humans have three distinct cultural groups that have been developing pretty much in isolation for over a century, then the distribution doesn't actually feel that far off. The problem is that officially ArenaNet has associated 8/9 PoF specialisations, and all nine EoD specialisations, to Elona and Cantha specifically even when there isn't really anything in the design of those specialisations that really links them to humans at all, let alone humans of those specific regions, with holosmith and mechanist being examples that really stand out. 

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2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Hard to pin down: Willbender, herald, daredevil, spectre, scourge, harbinger, chronomancer, mirage, virtuoso, tempest, weaver, catalyst. (12)

Aren't Willbender solely inspired by Cantha ? So human (Same for all the other Cantha inspired prof., Cathalist, Harbringer, and Bladesworn)

Chronomancer for me seem to be more focused on the Aetherblade (Cogs and other mechanical/time based aesthetic)

Deadeye is more about the Shadow Organization we meet in Elonia than strictly human and the lore line about the Spectre mention "Panaku" a human Assassin that you could get as a Henchman in GW1

----

As for Racial profession:

- [Sylvari]Revenant: Breacher (Pistol/Pistol or Rifle) with Scarlet Briar as the Legend

- [Sylvari]Ranger: Warden (Shield) Melee/Buff

- [Aetherblades (I know it's not a race but a faction]Engineer: Aethersmith (Axe/Axe or GS) with Aether powered Mecha-dendrites that change your Toolbelt skill when active (Like Kits)

- [Charr]Ranger: Hunter (Pistol/Pistol or Rifle) with armoured pets

- [Charr]Thief: Saboteur (Axe/Axe or Mace/Mace) burst like skills and mines utilities

- [Norn]Necromancer or Ranger: Spirit Caller (Shortbow if Necro; no idea for the Ranger) can call diverse animal spirits with active effect (Minion but with the devour from the Herald)

-[Human] Necro: Vampire (Sword or Sword/Sword)

 

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28 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Aren't Willbender solely inspired by Cantha ? So human (Same for all the other Cantha inspired prof., Cathalist, Harbringer, and Bladesworn)

 

 

My whole point is that there's a lot of specialisations that they've written text to say that they're linked to Elona or Cantha when there isn't really anything in them to link them to that location.

 

Take Willbender, for instance. Our first taste of a guardian wielding dual swords and dashing around leaving trails of flame was Almorra, and we've been expecting what would be revealed as Willbender since. Harrower Veltan in the Labyrinth this year has basically the same combat style except the flames are orange. Clearly, people outside of Cantha have figured out what we're calling Willbender, it's just that because it's being introduced in a Canthan expansion, they shoehorned in a Canthan background for it. But if the Icebrood Saga had been an expansion instead, I'm sure we'd likely have exactly the same profession, they'd just be saying that it was Almorra who invented it rather than being a Canthan tradition.

 

And that's the thing. With both PoF and EoD, there are a minority of specialisations that genuinely link to the region they're introduced with. Others could easily have been introduced anywhere, and some such as Mechanist are really something that should be coming out of one of the core cultures, they've just covered with a few lines of text when even they acknowledge that they weren't actually setting out to make an Elonian or Canthan profession.

 

Of the four you cite, apart from some graphics effects, Bladesworn is the only one that really taps into Asian (not Canthan, Asian, specifically Japanese in fact) themes with the iaijutsu thing. Maybe Harbinger if they link it to Am Fah Chalices of Corruption. Catalyst? Remove the phoenix/saltspray/rockhide/kirin graphics and replace them with some other elemental graphic and it could come from literally anywhere.

 

Consider that if you are going to take that lore at face value and consider 17 specialisations to be Elonian or Canthan, then any future expansion's specialisations are also going to be all or nearly all from one culture. So all we'd need to do is express massive collective curiosity in, say, Ash Legion territory, and maybe the next set of elite specialisations will all be ancient Ash Legion traditions, even if it's a big flashy Guardian or an Elementalist using what is clearly asura technology reskinned in smokey colours.

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On 11/2/2021 at 2:28 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Pretty much this. A lot of them are... well, the text links them to the region the expansion focuses on, which has generally meant human because that's the dominant sapient species in Elona and Cantha, but it's pretty clear that the themes came from elsewhere and then they came up with a justification for it being Elonian or Canthan.

 

Working through the professions, here are my thoughts:

 

Berserker: Warriors that augment martial skill with fire are common among both the Zaishen and Flame Legion, which suggests human or charr as the initial origin point. Personally, my theory, given the animal themes that are also present, is that it was originally Flame Legion and spread to the norn during the period when the Flame Legion and the norn were relatively friendly.

Spellbreaker: I think this one was genuinely inspired by the question of "how did surviving Sunspears react to Joko's takeover", making it human. I considered charr, but despite the charr dislike of magic, there's no evidence of the charr ever trying to develop fighting styles specifically to combat it. Sylvari and asura have the more mystical sides of things, but both generally seem to eschew warrior as a profession, so I don't see them developing a spellbreaker-like specialisation.

Bladesworn: An interesting one to analyse. Combining more engineer-type stuff with warrior seems like something that the Iron or Blood Legion would be all over, but I don't think either would be adopting iaijutsu techniques or the magitech. Asura interpretation of warrior is a possibility, but since Cantha was more technologically advanced than most of Tyria in GW1, I'm willing to accept Canthan on this one.

 

Dragonhunter: A focus on hunting large game really feels like a norn interpretation of guardian to me. Braham is probably the archetypical guardian.

Firebrand: Firebrand themes combine a scholarly focus, a low-tech approach to combat, and the tome's effects are mostly elemental in nature. This makes me think it is genuinely human-oriented: asura or charr would be more technological, norn feel like they have more of an oral tradition (and norn-oriented tomes would be more likely to be invoking animal spirits) and sylvari haven't really been around long enough to have a deep literary tradition.

Willbender: There's... not really anything I can see that pins it to any race more than guardian already does. You could say that the focus on unarmed martial arts makes it Canthan-oriented, but I don't think that Canthan humans are really going to have a monopoly on that (in the real world, there were rich unarmed martial arts traditions in history pretty much everywhere, it's just that it was mostly in Asia that they gained a spiritual aspect and were preserved).

 

Herald: Arguably Glint is more associated with human history than other races, but it's probably reasonable to call Herald fairly race-independent.

Renegade: Charr. On the other hand, as has been observed, it does feel a lot like a ritualist-themed spec with a charr overlay. On the gripping hand, charr did have their own ritualists in EotN.

Vindicator: Human.

 

Druid: Human is the obvious choice - the original druids were former humans, although they apparently expanded to other races as well. It is worth noting that sylvari concepts and artwork also touched on a lot of druidic abilities, however, including being able to summon druid spirits. So it kinda works for either.

Soulbeast: Soulbeast merging really feels a bit like it's a less impressive (but more practical) variant of norn shapeshifting, essentially using the animal companion as a conduit to channel the spirit of that animal family. So I'd consider it to be norn-themed.

Untamed: The Untamed goes even heavier into plant themes than Druid does. The official lore is that it's connected to the Echovald Forest, and honestly, between Urgoz, the Wardens, and the number of plant facsimiles of animals found in the Echovald, it wouldn't surprise me if Urgoz was a Pale Tree before being petrified. So I'd lean towards sylvari, albeit possibly more Nightmare Court than regular sylvari.

 

Daredevil: Nothing that really pins it to any given race more than thief already does. Similar comments regarding martial arts as per Willbender.

Deadeye: Let's face it, it was probably the charr that invented sniping. Likely Ash Legion.

Spectre: I want to say "Canthan human" on this one, but mechanically I don't think it's actually worked out that close to assassins. They could probably have had Caithe invent this elite specialisation, or an Ash Legion operative wanting to support their team more, or a Snow Leopard shaman, and we probably wouldn't have blinked.

 

Scrapper: Mix of charr and asura. The official lore is that it's the result of charr scavengers repurposing asura and other Pact technology. 

Holosmith: Asura. We saw weaponised holotech's origins in the original game and LS1.

Mechanist: Asura. It's a golem. 'Nuff said.

 

Reaper: Reaper feels a bit like necromancer absorbed Grenth dervish, and on the whole, "dark guy with a scythe" feels like a human viewpoint of death (norn, for instance, would probably have a necromancy-enhanced raven form). 

Scourge: They claim it's linked to Joko, but did we ever actually see Joko or his loyalists using scourge-like magic? Even if they did, wouldn't that have felt like a retroactive move anyway? Not really anything in Scourge that links it to a specific race more than necromancer already does. At most, you could view it as a necromancer-ritualist merge, but charr and norn both had ritualists in GW1.

Harbinger: It's based around drinking things that you probably shouldn't. They'll probably link it to Am Fah, but it could easily have been sylvari (Nightmare Court) or asura (possibly, but not necessarily, Inquest).

 

Chronomancer: Doesn't really link to any race any more than mesmer already does. One could possibly argue that control over time and space fits into asura technology, and the mechanical nature of Horologicus could also point in that direction. However, intricate timepieces are also commonly made by humans, and asura gates and the like are already accounted for in core mesmer.

Mirage: Doesn't really link to any race more than mesmer already does. The melee focus and lack of technological applications probably pushes it more towards human, norn, or sylvari than charr or asura, but that's as far as I think it goes. 

Virtuoso: The blades taking the form of, well, blades does seem to suggest that it would be coming from one of the races with a more intuitive link to magic rather than the more scientifically minded asura that would probably focus more on charging an array of miniature asura magicannons or something, but that doesn't really narrow it down very far.

 

Tempest: Not really linked to anything more than elementalist already does. One could argue that the more primal nature leans towards races with a more intuitive approach to magic over the scientific asura, but it could probably just as easily come from a human or a sylvari.

Weaver: Not really linked to anything more than elementalist already does. One could argue that the more melee-esque nature and lack of technology leans away from being of asura origin, but beyond that nothing really pins it to a specific race. 

Catalyst: Take away the Canthan animal visuals, and it's not really linked to anything more than elementalist already does, and no race would willingly admit to having created it in the first place. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.

 

So, to summarise:

Asura: Holosmith, Mechanist, half of Scrapper (2.5)

Charr: Deadeye, renegade, half of Scrapper, half of Berserker (3)

Human: Reaper, vindicator, firebrand, bladesworn, spellbreaker, half of berserker, half of druid (6)

Norn: Dragonhunter, soulbeast (2)

Sylvari: Untamed, half of druid (1.5)

Hard to pin down: Willbender, herald, daredevil, spectre, scourge, harbinger, chronomancer, mirage, virtuoso, tempest, weaver, catalyst. (12)

 

If you take into account that humans have three distinct cultural groups that have been developing pretty much in isolation for over a century, then the distribution doesn't actually feel that far off. The problem is that officially ArenaNet has associated 8/9 PoF specialisations, and all nine EoD specialisations, to Elona and Cantha specifically even when there isn't really anything in the design of those specialisations that really links them to humans at all, let alone humans of those specific regions, with holosmith and mechanist being examples that really stand out. 


A lot of what you wrote sounds like this:  "Sohothin is a flaming sword and since Charr like fire it's a Charr weapon" when the Lore clearly states that it's of human origins.

I actually agree with most of the body of your text, these specs "feel" like you describe. For instance Holosmith and Golemancer Mechanist scream Asura to me but the game states that the first is an Elonian/Zephyrite convergence of technology and the second come straight from Canthan "jade tech". Same for Weaver, Scourge, Willbender, Catalyst,etc... That's why it's so jarring and annoying to some of us.

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Personally, I'd like to see Elite specs that are specific to the Commander. Maybe powers only they can access (in the story) because of their connection to Aurene. And because Aurene has powers from the previous Elder Dragons, we could even have specific callbacks to them, like a Necromancer with a Dragon Shroud that gives them Zhaitan inspired abilities.

In regards to previous Elite spec lore, I think some of them are really cool. I like the idea of Elementalists learning to attune to 2 elements after studying under the Djinn. Mirage lore isn't especially noteworthy, but I like how it's presented. It feels like a natural expression of Elonian Mesmer magic, whereas some Elite spec lore feels shoehorned.

Holosmith, for instance. While I love the spec thematically, the lore behind it doesn't feel like it fits the setting or the Elonians. I'd rather they had tied it to Asura, even if it was through some kind of more recent Asura/Elona partnership. 

Most Elite specs in Heart of Thorns feel more like natural, thematic extensions of their base class. Warrior into Berserker, Elementalist into Tempest, even Mesmer into Chronomancer. Then you have things like Dragonhunter, that ties into the story loosely, and Scrapper, which is specifically of Charr origin (though, the entire Engineer profession is tied mainly to the Charr, so this still feels pretty natural). I think I preferred this approach the most, but I think a mix of the two could also work. Not every new Elite spec needs to fit the setting it's a part of, but if it makes sense for the design then go ahead and tie it in.

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11 hours ago, Harak.8397 said:


A lot of what you wrote sounds like this:  "Sohothin is a flaming sword and since Charr like fire it's a Charr weapon" when the Lore clearly states that it's of human origins.

I actually agree with most of the body of your text, these specs "feel" like you describe. For instance Holosmith and Golemancer Mechanist scream Asura to me but the game states that the first is an Elonian/Zephyrite convergence of technology and the second come straight from Canthan "jade tech". Same for Weaver, Scourge, Willbender, Catalyst,etc... That's why it's so jarring and annoying to some of us.

Well, that particular example would, like Berserker, be covered by 'and Balthazar worshippers like fire too' - and as it turns out, Sohothin WAS linked to Balthazar.

 

Strictly speaking, yeah, no specialisation is SO strongly linked to a specific race that it'd feel weird playing with another race. Certain races do have themes associated with them, though, and a lot of the elite specialisations do tap into those themes. It certainly isn't as clear-cut as 8/9 PoF and 9/9 EoD elites being human, however much the official lore places them there. It's probably fairer to say that they're fighting styles that are present in the area, but were also present in central Tyria all along even if they weren't available to the player. Taimi is pretty obviously a Mechanist, for instance, and there's that Sylvari unit which are pretty obviously Deadeyes before Deadeye was a thing.

 

3 hours ago, tesnow.4721 said:

Personally, I'd like to see Elite specs that are specific to the Commander. Maybe powers only they can access (in the story) because of their connection to Aurene. And because Aurene has powers from the previous Elder Dragons, we could even have specific callbacks to them, like a Necromancer with a Dragon Shroud that gives them Zhaitan inspired abilities.

In regards to previous Elite spec lore, I think some of them are really cool. I like the idea of Elementalists learning to attune to 2 elements after studying under the Djinn. Mirage lore isn't especially noteworthy, but I like how it's presented. It feels like a natural expression of Elonian Mesmer magic, whereas some Elite spec lore feels shoehorned.

Holosmith, for instance. While I love the spec thematically, the lore behind it doesn't feel like it fits the setting or the Elonians. I'd rather they had tied it to Asura, even if it was through some kind of more recent Asura/Elona partnership. 

Most Elite specs in Heart of Thorns feel more like natural, thematic extensions of their base class. Warrior into Berserker, Elementalist into Tempest, even Mesmer into Chronomancer. Then you have things like Dragonhunter, that ties into the story loosely, and Scrapper, which is specifically of Charr origin (though, the entire Engineer profession is tied mainly to the Charr, so this still feels pretty natural). I think I preferred this approach the most, but I think a mix of the two could also work. Not every new Elite spec needs to fit the setting it's a part of, but if it makes sense for the design then go ahead and tie it in.

Aurene-linked specs are something I've mentally toyed with myself. Some essentially already exist - Herald is an obvious one, Holosmith if you accept the official explanation, and Mirage does feel a bit like it might be drawing on some of Glint's magic that soaked into nearby regions of the Crystal Desert. But it could be interesting to see a 'champion of Aurene' interpretation for every profession.

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38 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

I have bad news for you. It is highly unlikely there will be a new expansion. And even if there is, more likely than not, it will not have new elites.

 

I would settle for something like new core weapons or new utilities.

Based on what evidence?

 

What the devs have been saying indicates that, if anything, EoD is a springboard into a new arc that isn't dominated by the Elder Dragons and they have plenty of plans to follow up on it, rather than being the end of GW2. The moment where they were considering wrapping up GW2 was the end of Season 4 (which is part of why there was a big gap between PoF and EoD), and they decided to refocus on GW2 instead. 

 

Upgrading the graphics engine is also not really something you'd do if you were planning one last Living World season and then pulling the plug. I'm also reasonably sure they didn't rehire so many big names just for one last money grab.

 

Sure, there's the possibility that EoD will be a massive flop and that will cause GW2 to be abandoned, but what we've been told implies that they're laying the foundations to stay for the long haul.

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19 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Based on what evidence?

 

What the devs have been saying indicates that, if anything, EoD is a springboard into a new arc that isn't dominated by the Elder Dragons and they have plenty of plans to follow up on it, rather than being the end of GW2. The moment where they were considering wrapping up GW2 was the end of Season 4 (which is part of why there was a big gap between PoF and EoD), and they decided to refocus on GW2 instead. 

 

Upgrading the graphics engine is also not really something you'd do if you were planning one last Living World season and then pulling the plug. I'm also reasonably sure they didn't rehire so many big names just for one last money grab.

 

Sure, there's the possibility that EoD will be a massive flop and that will cause GW2 to be abandoned, but what we've been told implies that they're laying the foundations to stay for the long haul.

I was not thinking EoD will flop. I am thinking it is more likely that if we will embark on a new story that the setting will change. Like GW1 to GW2. It also helps to create major hype. We might still get 2 or even 3 LW.

 

Having said that, I would like to continue with GW2. However, I want modern graphics. Upgrading the graphics engine (at least as far as my understanding of the scope) is very limited. I want 4k and ray tracing, lol. Okay that is pushing it.

 

Also, I think we have an expansion with no new elites. There are other venues for classes expansion, like new core weapons, new utilities and possible cross class. I think this would be more interesting than a 4th elite line.

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My expectation is that a major shift in the story will probably come with an expansion to kick it off. Maybe Season 6 will lay the foundations, but I think there will be a point where they'll want a large expansion of the map rather than inserting new maps into the gaps.

 

And while I think there are definitely professions that need an expanded core, it's pretty clear at the moment that elite specialisations are how they're planning to expand player options in the foreseeable future. You might prefer that they did otherwise, but your preferences do not make for evidence that ArenaNet will abandon the elite specialisation model.

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Just now, LucianDK.8615 said:

The awful idea of racial elite specs is exactly why Anet has amputated racial skills, because they did not any races to be decidedly superior to another.      What the op proposes would double down on it even harder.

I think OP doesn't want Race exclusive Espec, but rather Espec tied to the different races (Like Scrapper/Charr)

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Just now, Dawanarth.4601 said:

I think OP doesn't want Race exclusive Espec, but rather Espec tied to the different races (Like Scrapper/Charr)

That is the same problem.   And running counter to precedent with every espec useable by all the races.  You would see people excluded because of their race and racial spec. For example if Mechanist is tied to Charr, and it turns out to be junk, then people would surely kick said charr because they are not the race whom can be Spectres.

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26 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

That is the same problem.   And running counter to precedent with every espec useable by all the races.  You would see people excluded because of their race and racial spec. For example if Mechanist is tied to Charr, and it turns out to be junk, then people would surely kick said charr because they are not the race whom can be Spectres.

Race exclusive Espec: Espec that could only be used by certain races (Eg: Golemancer Asura, Diviner/Paragon Human...)

Espec tied to race: Espec whose lore is tied to a playable race but can still be used by the others (Like Scrapper and Renegade, whose lore is from Charr origin but is usable for all races, or Vindicator, Druid and Willbender are lorewise tied to the human)

 

The racial skill are fun/thematic but they aren't going to be used or even become a bigger part of the game so people booting others for their chosen race is absurd. All race can become all profession and all can use the different Espec whether they are from the race that actually is tied to it or not

Hell, there could also be espec that would be tied to non-playable race too (Which is already the case in a way, with Herald being tied to Dragons, and possibly the Elonian/Canthayan if we want to separate the different human realms)

  • [Kodan] Revenant: "Caller" or "Founder" (Legend: Koda, the Founder), Axe Main-hand, Warhorn, Focus or Longbow (Condi Support)
  • [Largos] Warrior or Thief: "Wavedancer" "Land" Spear (Thief: Stance; Warrior: Trick ? or maybe some sort of stealth)
  • [Aetherblade] Engineer: "Spurner" (Named after Foreman Spurn) Axe/Axe, Mechadendrites that act like kit but replace the toolbelt
  • [Djjin (Is that how it's written ?)] Elementalist: "Runeforger" Mace/Mace (Strike the RUNES), profession mechanic that act like Guardian's symbol and powering runes, either give access to an elemental shroud or have the skills tied to it
  • [Hylek] Engineer: "Chemist" Shortbow (Condi Ranged), Poison/Venom skills
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2 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

That is the same problem.   And running counter to precedent with every espec useable by all the races.  You would see people excluded because of their race and racial spec. For example if Mechanist is tied to Charr, and it turns out to be junk, then people would surely kick said charr because they are not the race whom can be Spectres.

Nah, it's just a matter of the specialisation having a theme that originated from a race, but other races are still perfectly capable of being of that specialisation. Renegade is a good example of this - is clearly tied to the charr, but you don't have to have a charr revenant to play renegade, you can even do so with a human revenant (although Kalla gets a bit snarky sometimes if you're human). Heck, even some of the core professions have clear roots from one race or another (engineers as we know them being originally a charr thing, for instance, and humans inventing the guardian profession, but you can play either as any race).

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14 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Nah, it's just a matter of the specialisation having a theme that originated from a race, but other races are still perfectly capable of being of that specialisation. Renegade is a good example of this - is clearly tied to the charr, but you don't have to have a charr revenant to play renegade, you can even do so with a human revenant (although Kalla gets a bit snarky sometimes if you're human). Heck, even some of the core professions have clear roots from one race or another (engineers as we know them being originally a charr thing, for instance, and humans inventing the guardian profession, but you can play either as any race).

Sounds like you are just wanting cosmetic themed armor/weapons like Mistward armor and the similar weapons, but which is profession locked.

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16 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Sounds like you are just wanting cosmetic themed armor/weapons like Mistward armor and the similar weapons, but which is profession locked.

kitten, you really struggle to get the concept, don't you?

It's not about weapon and armor skins either, it is about the lore of the spec and the general theme of the skills. They already mentioned the renegade elite spec, which is exactly what they are asking more of. Renegade can be used by any race, but the lore of the spec is still tied to Charr specifically, since the legend used is Kalla, who has been a Charr rebel.

The skills are also Charr themed, since you are summoning the ghosts of her former warband. No matter what race you are personally playing, the ghosts you summon with the skills always look like Charr. They even have names, since they represent actual Charr from Tyrian history who fought alongside Kalla.

Scrapper mentioned as another example, this is inspired by the scrappers in the Charr society. Outcasts which are usually just building stuff from, you guessed it, scrap. These outcasts now got an opportunity in the story to "prove themselves" by showing other engineers their craftiness when the fleet got destroyed. All the regular gear got destroyed, people needed to make the best out of the situation, which scrappers are experts at and they were building new stuff to survive in the jungle from the junk they found in the airship wrecks: particularly represented by the gyros.

It's not just about skins, it is not about making just specific races able to pick up the elite spec. This is mostly for the people who enjoy the lore and story of this game and they want to see the history of the other races integrated in the elite specs in this way, something that Anet already did. But currently, the lore of the elite specs favors humans heavily, since we visit places in which almost exclusively humans live. It even is a big plot point that Cantha is so xenophobic that they banished all non-human races from their country, so having an elite spec fitting the theme of the Canthan expansion and featuring the lore of other races is really hard to almost impossible. This might change with the next expansion, depending what the theme of it will be.

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24 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Sounds like you are just wanting cosmetic themed armor/weapons like Mistward armor and the similar weapons, but which is profession locked.

I don't know where you got that.

Lets do an example, we like the Scrapper and the Renegade because it build up on the already existing lore of the playable races

While the Willbender and a lot of the EoD espec are based on Cantha so it's very human/Cathayan centric

Nowhere has it been mentioned that we wanted new racial armour or profession specific armour

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3 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Nowhere has it been mentioned that we wanted new racial armour or profession specific armour

Though having more racially inspired elite spec would probably lead to a new armor and weapon skin themed for that race, but without being locked just for that race in particular. To take renegade as an example again: renegade's casque clearly is a Charr inspired helmet skin for that elite spec, but can be used by any race, which is awesome.

But these skins are really just a side effect of having racially themed elite specs, they are not the main focus of the request.

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