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Most hyped elite spec for WvW specifically


Kootz.4102

Most hyped elite spec for WvW specifically  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. Class choice

    • Virtuoso
      5
    • Harbinger
      12
    • Catalyst
      0
    • Untamed
      1
    • Mechanist
      6
    • Specter
      27
    • Vindicator
      6
    • Bladesworn
      4
    • Willbender
      1
    • None :(
      41


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I'm new to WvW, and overall quite new to the game despite playing on and off since launch... Always done a few weeks here, then a few months off, so never really got attached to a certain class. Excited to get my teeth in to WvW, however equally excited to try a new elite spec, and so the question arises of which the community think will actually be played in this game type. Therefore, which are you most hyped for playing in WvW?

Edited by Kootz.4102
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If looking at roaming, honestly anything can work. There’s roaming builds for basically all specs / base classes, so if you find something that works for you it can work.

For zerging (which I think this question is focused on), nope. None of the elites seem to contribute significantly to any roles.

Ones that seemed close are:

Virtuoso is close, could add a dps option for Mesmer, but it’s all projectile based which is hard to work around.

Vindicator seemed to have the idea of more AoE damage, but seems to focus a lot of its traits into the dodge mechanic while not having to a of power damage % increases. Probably won’t overtake Herald. The support / healing portion seems to be great in PvE, but may not translate well to WvW due to a lack of cleansing. Could still maybe work as a secondary healer to, but probably won’t have room in a party (won’t replace a FB, Scrapper, or Tempest).

Untamed seemed like they were trying to add a frontline build with boon strip and CC, but the fact that the pet is still a thing makes it dead on arrival, and everything about the spec feels horrendously undertuned or weak. Cannot compete in power dps compared to other melee options, or in boon stripping compared to significantly better and easier options (Spellbreaker, Chrono, Scourge).

Specter seemed like it could have had Zerg support, but they lack cleansing, good Zerg weapons, and rely on single targeting for a lot of their support. Not really feasible in large groups like that.

Edited by AlexndrTheGreat.8310
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Specter support might work out, the rest are going to be disasters unless they have major improvements.

  • Bladesworn - will never be taken in a superspeed meta , realworld DPS is better on Berserker and spellbreaker has more utility
  • Willbender - will never be taken in  a superspeed meta , glassier than core guard with no new mainhand or large utility damage , also nobody is taking one over support firebrand or even cele firebrand in largescale
  • Vindicator - needs the dodge fixed and the greatsword damage increased by quite a bit to make it worth taking over herald (5 target GS would be decent if it actually had damage)
  • Virtuoso - the shatter damage needs to be increased massively and the projectile nature of dagger/shatters not be able to be reflected (if reflected at least not penalized as a physical projectile : they are psionic blades after all?)
  • Untamed - a bad soulbeast  , the boonrip is petbased and CC is meaningless when you do nearly no damage ... it needs to be able to stow pet easier than pulling up the pet panel as well (you're better off with stance share soulbeast)
  • Mechanist - a pet spec , but at least you can stow pet although it is a half core engi when the mech is away, this would never replace scrapper
  • Catalyst - a trainwreck that will never replace aurashare tempest or staff DPS weaver
  • Harbinger - a projectile condi spec ; power doesn't work here as there aren't any power traits or skills and it doesn't have the barriers and corrupts of scourge
     
Edited by Infusion.7149
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46 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Specter support might work out, the rest are going to be disasters unless they have major improvements.

  • Bladesworn - will never be taken in a superspeed meta , realworld DPS is better on Berserker and spellbreaker has more utility
  • Willbender - will never be taken in  a superspeed meta , glassier than core guard with no new mainhand or large utility damage , also nobody is taking one over support firebrand or even cele firebrand in largescale
  • Vindicator - needs the dodge fixed and the greatsword damage increased by quite a bit to make it worth taking over herald (5 target GS would be decent if it actually had damage)
  • Virtuoso - the shatter damage needs to be increased massively and the projectile nature of dagger/shatters not be able to be reflected (if reflected at least not penalized as a physical projectile : they are psionic blades after all?)
  • Untamed - a bad soulbeast  , the boonrip is petbased and CC is meaningless when you do nearly no damage ... it needs to be able to stow pet easier than pulling up the pet panel as well (you're better off with stance share soulbeast)
  • Mechanist - a pet spec , but at least you can stow pet although it is a half core engi when the mech is away, this would never replace scrapper
  • Catalyst - a trainwreck that will never replace aurashare tempest or staff DPS weaver
  • Harbinger - a projectile condi spec ; power doesn't work here as there aren't any power traits or skills and it doesn't have the barriers and corrupts of scourge
     

Do you have Anet's ear, being a wiki contributor?  They need to hear this loud and clear!

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7 hours ago, floppypuppy.5789 said:

I keep thinking Anet is going to change something to disrupt the current meta, otherwise all these new elites are middling to poor compared to what we currently have.

 

They wouldn't release an expansion with completely ignorable professions would they? Would they???

That’s why another February 2020 patch is coming to destroy multiple viable builds. At least it seems obvious it is - brace up

 

Regarding the OP - I think mostly in roaming scenarios like mechanist and Specter could be quite disruptive

Edited by Mik.3401
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2 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

That’s why another February 2020 patch is coming to destroy multiple viable builds. At least it seems obvious it is - brace up

 

1 hour ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

 

Can't say until the inevitable balance patch comes that nerfs most HoT and PoF specs to make the EoD ones look good

 


Ive at least heard MightyTeapot say on some streams multiple times that some large balancing change is speculated to be coming from EoD. Some primary forms of evidence for this in PvE being that both the new alacrity sources we got are only 5 man instead of 10 compared to Revenant or Mirage. Essentially making them dead on arrival for an alacrity role in PvE. The only way to actually make them usable in those roles would be to nerf Renegade and Mirage to 5 man.

However, in WvW I don’t see any major, meta-defining abilities that will be changing how zergs are made, unless there’s a substantial nerf to specific skills and roles. None of the new elites have a Winds of Disenchantment level of impact. Condi builds are also non-existent due to the current focus on boon conversion from Scrappers and cleansing from multiple different support builds. None of the new elites also have significant ways to mass cleanse condis compared to Scrapper, Tempest, or Spellbreaker. Unless there’s a drastic overhaul on how quickly people put out condis and are able to convert / cleanse them, I don’t see anything major changing in WvW specifically.

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2 hours ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

Ive at least heard MightyTeapot say on some streams multiple times that some large balancing change is speculated to be coming from EoD. Some primary forms of evidence for this in PvE being that both the new alacrity sources we got are only 5 man instead of 10 compared to Revenant or Mirage. Essentially making them dead on arrival for an alacrity role in PvE. The only way to actually make them usable in those roles would be to nerf Renegade and Mirage to 5 man.

However, in WvW I don’t see any major, meta-defining abilities that will be changing how zergs are made, unless there’s a substantial nerf to specific skills and roles. None of the new elites have a Winds of Disenchantment level of impact. Condi builds are also non-existent due to the current focus on boon conversion from Scrappers and cleansing from multiple different support builds. None of the new elites also have significant ways to mass cleanse condis compared to Scrapper, Tempest, or Spellbreaker. Unless there’s a drastic overhaul on how quickly people put out condis and are able to convert / cleanse them, I don’t see anything major changing in WvW specifically.

 

I like how they suddenly want to spread all this alacrity around and making it better for all those, except for you know, the actual time spec lmao.

Yeah I don't see any major changes coming to the wvw meta with the expansion, you can maybe plug in a couple new specs into the dps slots, but zergs are going to keep their ranged pull bomb boon balling ways, it's still the safest way to play. EoD does not have any specs that are needed, unlike HoT and PoF which are using the best support specs of each in zergs or high burst aoe dps specs, this is a corner anet backed themselves into by making heavy support oriented game play. This is going to be a pve expansion.

Wouldn't be surprising if anet nerfs the old specs to make the new ones look attractive to get, would have to be really hard mesmer type nerfs to their golden child specs at this point though lol.

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The new specs seem cool, and I like that Anet is trying to change things up with each profession except Untamed which is just uninspired, generic, and disappointing. Personally I don't find them all that practical and cant see myself switching from hot/pof specs. Harbinger and Specter will likely see some use in WvW but we will have to see how they split the skill balance numbers between game modes. I can see some value for Virtuoso. In their current state I don't see them offering anything over their hot/pof counterparts aside from Harbinger and Specter.

 

 

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I clicked Virtuouso mostly because I have been going to bat for it a bit. I think it is the most polished design for WvW purposes and really the only espec that felt like it did exactly what it said on the lid, while fitting nicely into existing balance. People who find it underwhelming here want more out of it for subjective reasons, I feel, whereas people who want more out of it elsewhere may simply not be the target audience. I don't think Anet went out and directly said that Virtuouso is for WvW, but it seems to have been made with WvW mainly in mind. It feels like it is getting unwarranted hate, even if I wouldn't deem it the next best thing since sliced bread. It is just well made, the way all specs should have been made from a WvW perspective. It's the best in an objective sense. It also seems workable at different scales in WvW while other specs mostly fit one subset or scale, if it fits at all.

If I am to be completely honest, I am personally probably more excited for the Specter. It looks really cool and has the potential to add alot of new dimension to WvW gameplay. At the same time, it can add many things that are both good and bad. In fact, it could potentially be the spec out of the new especs that has the most devastating impact on WvW for EoD (like Rev for HoT or Scourge for PoF). However, it certainly did look and feel pretty cool to play and there was alot of potential in doing cool things with it.

Beyond that I'll do like @Infusion.7149 and just briefly comment on all the other specs.

Untamed and Catalyst feel like the same idea with the same problems. They're built for a role that just doesn't exist in the game (frontline bruiser). It could potentially exist in WvW if Anet spent enough time on WvW to understand their own game mode and what makes it tick. As things stand they're not WvW melee, they're not sPvP team fight and they're not instanced PvE (afaik). So that leaves open world PvE where performance matter little, but even their design and fun-to-play felt pretty meh to me. So, these came across as just outright bad.

Willbender was my biggest disappointment in all of this. Mostly because it was the complete opposite of what it says on the lid. I don't mind that it isn't a blobbing build for WvW or whatever. I'd be happy with it if it was just fit for roaming. However it isn't fit for roaming. It was the fast build that isn't fast. It's not fast enough for roaming. It's not fast enough to apply a full melee. It is slower than all pre-existing full melee builds. So it just gives up being a Guard to still be a Guard. I can't see anything you'd do with it but maybe I miss something for sPvP or instanced PvE. I was just hyped for it to be a decent enough roamer.

Vindicator felt okay without shimmering. Rev is so incredibly good overall though so it is hard to impress. It largely felt like a Rev and that anything it would replace at anything is to be a sidegrade to another Rev. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it again mostly speaks volumes about that Rev is well balanced within itself, among its builds. Herald and Renegade relate to each other similarily, so it makes a good whole. The only thing that irks me and goes beyond mere polish (because it felt a bit clunky) is the same thing that Infusion already brought up: The big leap feature doesn't add to the rest of the spec. It takes from it.

Harbinger I feel like it was an interesting roamer and I don't need anything more from it. It just needs some polish but it felt like it filled in nicely inbetween Core and Reaper for smaller-scale WvW content. I think people who expect more out of it expects too much. It was just a bit unpolished, but that can be polished.

Bladesworn also felt similar to that. It is not an upgrade to Berserker or Breaker. However, it felt like a sidegrade for WvW roaming. It has an idea there that was pretty fun to play and seemed to work in what could possibly be its target environment (smaller scale WvW). It was just a bit unpolished and could use both some polishing and possibly some decisions and strengthening to its theme (is it primarily about the gun-sword relationship or the weeb style slashing mode? I think it needs some more meat into either and let the other fall off a bit - now those things do not really add to each other and it makes it feel indesive and unpolished). Either concept isn't bad though so they just need to flesh it out properly and polish it. If people wanted a new spec specifically for large-scale WvW, I feel like they are asking for too much. That too also goes for the Harbinger.

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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8 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I clicked Virtuouso mostly because I have been going to bat for it a bit. I think it is the most polished design for WvW purposes and really the only espec that felt like it did exactly what it said on the lid, while fitting nicely into existing balance. People who find it underwhelming here want more out of it for subjective reasons, I feel, whereas people who want more out of it elsewhere may simply not be the target audience. I don't think Anet went out and directly said that Virtuouso is for WvW, but it seems to have been made with WvW mainly in mind. It feels like it is getting unwarranted hate, even if I wouldn't deem it the next best thing since sliced bread. It is just well made, the way all specs should have been made from a WvW perspective. It's the best in an objective sense. It also seems workable at different scales in WvW while other specs mostly fit one subset or scale, if it fits at all.

If I am to be completely honest, I am personally probably more excited for the Specter. It looks really cool and has the potential to add alot of new dimension to WvW gameplay. At the same time, it can add many things that are both good and bad. In fact, it could potentially be the spec out of the new especs that has the most devastating impact on WvW for EoD (like Rev for HoT or Scourge for PoF). However, it certainly did look and feel pretty cool to play and there was alot of potential in doing cool things with it.

Personally I think specter will see more use in small roaming groups where it will be easier to target and support party members while also putting out some damage. I predict that celestial will be the favored stat choice for that role. There will definately be a few in organized groups. Again it all depends on the final balance when they split the numbers between game modes. I cant see it having as big an impact as Scourge though, at least before it was nerfed to death.

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Just now, X T D.6458 said:

Personally I think specter will see more use in small roaming groups where it will be easier to target and support party members while also putting out some damage. I predict that celestial will be the favored stat choice for that role. There will definately be a few in organized groups. Again it all depends on the final balance when they split the numbers between game modes. I cant see it having as big an impact as Scourge though, at least before it was nerfed to death.

True. I didn't necessarily mean that it will impact the same things that Rev and Scourge did. It's more so that it may upset some existing balance just as much. In the case of Specter that was more so what you could possibly do with it at smaller scales. The way it pockets has the potential to become a real problem.

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Just now, subversiontwo.7501 said:

True. I didn't necessarily mean that it will impact the same things that Rev and Scourge did. It's more so that it may upset some existing balance just as much. In the case of Specter that was more so what you could possibly do with it at smaller scales. The way it pockets has the potential to become a real problem.

When I tried out Specter, I targeted a guy and just by using auto attack I was able to get to 40 Rot Wallow stacks and maintain 50% barrier w/o any healing gear. Now granted this was in Lions Arch and we were not in combat, but I was still kind of shocked by how easy it was.

 

Here is what I am concerned about when it comes to Specter and WvW...Can multiple Specters tether to the same ally? If that is possible, just imagine how powerful that could be for buffing up commanders before a fight and making it easier to maintain a permanent barrier. Even if you can only be tethered to one Specter, you can still buff and ally out of combat which is powerful by itself. So yea a lot of potential issues with Specter.

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Virtuoso is a simple aoe spec, it's mechanic has changed clones into projectiles which is still going to be a problem in wvw. It's going to appeal those players who hated mesmers because of the clone mechanic or deemed it too complicated to play, but the veterans of the class obviously want more of what a mesmer should be. Is it even going to replace the current roster of dps specs in wvw who also have other stuff to provide in those roles? Meanwhile all the Virtuoso's aoe power will mostly come from it's utility slots, which are generally reserved for their defensive/utility stuff. Probably would have been more appropriate to slap this spec on an elementalist tbh, and give them back their aoe role. Dozen different specs mesmers players imagined in their section, anerf comes up with the simplest spec they could find.

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1 minute ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Virtuoso is a simple aoe spec, it's mechanic has changed clones into projectiles which is still going to be a problem in wvw. It's going to appeal those players who hated mesmers because of the clone mechanic or deemed it too complicated to play, but the veterans of the class obviously want more of what a mesmer should be. Is it even going to replace the current roster of dps specs in wvw who also have other stuff to provide in those roles? Meanwhile all the Virtuoso's aoe power will mostly come from it's utility slots, which are generally reserved for their defensive/utility stuff. Probably would have been more appropriate to slap this spec on an elementalist tbh, and give them back their aoe role. Dozen different specs mesmers players imagined in their section, anerf comes up with the simplest spec they could find.

Virtuoso is a generic spec in my opinion and I personally don't think it offers any practical advantage over Chronomancer in WvW. But it offers a more fun way to play, and that's what will probably appeal to people. I see as one of those...tired of my main, try something different today kind of things.

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18 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Virtuoso is a simple aoe spec, it's mechanic has changed clones into projectiles which is still going to be a problem in wvw. It's going to appeal those players who hated mesmers because of the clone mechanic or deemed it too complicated to play, but the veterans of the class obviously want more of what a mesmer should be. Is it even going to replace the current roster of dps specs in wvw who also have other stuff to provide in those roles? Meanwhile all the Virtuoso's aoe power will mostly come from it's utility slots, which are generally reserved for their defensive/utility stuff. Probably would have been more appropriate to slap this spec on an elementalist tbh, and give them back their aoe role. Dozen different specs mesmers players imagined in their section, anerf comes up with the simplest spec they could find.

Well, that's part of what I tried to point at. I'm sure there are people out there who wants more out of it. They want it to replace other classes in what they do or they want it to replace existing Mesmer specs at what they do. I just think that is the wrong line of thinking and everything you outline for it as some sort of shortcomming (it is just simple AoE, it is just a simple range dimension to  things that a Mesmer already does etc.) is what makes it well designed.

It gives dimension to something a Mesmer already does. It is a new spec, not a new class. It makes the Mesmer still be a Mesmer, but in somewhat different ways. It does those different things while still being a Mesmer and it does them well enough to do them. Some people see that as a problem while other people see that as what Anet is going for with these specs. If it fits the designers' intent and purpose, it has to objectively be deemed functional. If people want more, maybe they ask for too much, you can see that I scribbled down that line on most classes.

I care about the game, not people's subjective qualms about the one class they play in one way. It's not Anet's fault that they play the game wrong 😉 .

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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1 hour ago, X T D.6458 said:

When I tried out Specter, I targeted a guy and just by using auto attack I was able to get to 40 Rot Wallow stacks and maintain 50% barrier w/o any healing gear. Now granted this was in Lions Arch and we were not in combat, but I was still kind of shocked by how easy it was.

 

Here is what I am concerned about when it comes to Specter and WvW...Can multiple Specters tether to the same ally? If that is possible, just imagine how powerful that could be for buffing up commanders before a fight and making it easier to maintain a permanent barrier. Even if you can only be tethered to one Specter, you can still buff and ally out of combat which is powerful by itself. So yea a lot of potential issues with Specter.

Just remember that all skills are split for WVW. In particular when putting up all skill splits for WVW on the wiki I remember torment durations were cut heavily on specter. The support aspect didn't seem as heavily cut. I'd have to go through skill by skill , trait by trait once more but rest assured nearly everything is pre-split. Lions Arch is PVE balance so you want to look in Armistice Bastion.

Also in the livestream CMC noted the barrier on the scepter 2 has a wrong tooltip, it is larger than it states.

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