[Petition] make home instance chests free to open

[robertthebard.8150]

13 hours ago, StevenL.3761 said:

Like I said in my very first post, it's a very poor incentive. I also don't believe in avoiding change. That road leads nowhere.

...and yet, it was important enough to start a thread about.  You see, when I see "poor incentive", I think "not worth my time".  If the rewards aren't worth taking the time to farm up some keys, they shouldn't be important enough to warrant opening w/out keys.

 

I'm all for change that has a positive impact on the game.  According to your own position on the contents, however, this isn't one of them.  All this is likely to do is dis-incentivize players going to the map.  It seems to me that this, above all else, is what you're really looking for.  You can tell me "but I use my keys while I'm on the map", but I see "anyone against this just doesn't want change", and the former falls flat. Assigning motives to others to downplay whatever their actual objections may be doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence in your motivations.

[mtpelion.4562]

I'd be in favor of changing the Ley-Energy Matter Converter to give 1 free key per day (like it does now), plus 1 each of the other keys at some minor cost (gold or karma).

 

I only ever pick the Exalted Key these days, as that's the only home node with a decent Rare Unidentified Gear drop. ArenaNet can go ahead and just delete the other two chests for all I care.  

[kharmin.7683]

If we're going to farm home instance chests without requiring keys, then why not just have them deposit their contents in your inventory as soon as you enter the instance?  It equates to the same and would save time.  And it is still free stuff, which seems to be what the OP is advocating for.

Heck, if we do that, why not do that for all of the home instance nodes, as well?  Directly into inventory upon entrance.

[StevenL.3761]

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

If the rewards aren't worth taking the time to farm up some keys, they shouldn't be important enough to warrant opening w/out keys.

This statement makes absolutely no sense. Free loot is always good. Playing 45 minutes of meta events for a few extra keys just so I can loot my full home is not. Opening the home chests is just not a good enough reason to make me go back to those maps, period.

Things I consider good incentives include zone-specific dailies with their own rewards, and legendary collections. Looting my home is not an incentive for anything. You cannot change my mind on this matter.

[Zohane.7208]

23 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

If we're going to farm home instance chests without requiring keys, then why not just have them deposit their contents in your inventory as soon as you enter the instance?  It equates to the same and would save time.  And it is still free stuff, which seems to be what the OP is advocating for.

Heck, if we do that, why not do that for all of the home instance nodes, as well?  Directly into inventory upon entrance.

We could build on top of that and have them deposit all gathers from any zone as soon as we enter it

 And how about mob loot? Let them just automatically assume that we kill 1/2 of all mobs in the zone and drop us the loot in advance. That would add to the feelgood 🙂

[StevenL.3761]

27 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

If we're going to farm home instance chests without requiring keys, then why not just have them deposit their contents in your inventory as soon as you enter the instance?  It equates to the same and would save time.  And it is still free stuff, which seems to be what the OP is advocating for.

Heck, if we do that, why not do that for all of the home instance nodes, as well?  Directly into inventory upon entrance.

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, StevenL.3761 said:

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

I'm not making any such statement.  I was merely making a similar request.  I'd love to get free stuff for just entering my home instance.

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Again who cares if he called a chest a node. 

Again, nobody cares "he called a chest a node", because it was never about the phrasing in isolation. It's how he tries using it to claim that home instance chests should be free to open because home instance harvesting gathering nodes is.

13 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

There is no enchanted treasure chest in the open world but if there was I bet it would require a key cause it wouldn't be that enchanted if just anyone could open it.

If there were OW versions of that chest that require the keys, then so would the one in the home instance. We know that specifically because of the example of the HoT chests. But hey, why would you use factual information we have when it proves you wrong, when you can try to come up with an absolute made up hypothetical and pretend that maybe it would be a fact. 🙄

Edited November 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Moradorin.6217]

Its not allot of gold either way. keeping a stock of those keys has never felt important to me as someone who has had a full home instance for years now. I can say it would be nice if myself and anyone that visits could still loot those chests when they dont have any keys (gobbler doesnt count its only 1 key and it can be on other toons etc). I think when I think about that a full home is very expensive and each account can only use 1 home instance once a day. I dont really see why this would matter to anyone. It sounds like a QoL for people who bother to fill out a HI and invite people to use it.

 

I think the people saying no cause free gold bad are really stretching it to care be worried about that aspect. It would be a few more silver I guess when people dont have keys but its a home instance which can only be looted once a day and so it seems petty at best to object due to all that phat gold?!?

[Zohane.7208]

10 minutes ago, StevenL.3761 said:

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

It's not a slippery slope in this case; it's entirely reasonable to assume that, were Anet to change such that chests become free, requests would come as a follow-on to make other nodes free, IE not requiring harvesting tools. And after that it's easy to see that a QoL request for auto-deposit of these free items would come.

[Jilora.9524]

39 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Again, nobody cares "he called a chest a node", because it was never about the phrasing in isolation. It's how he tries using it to claim that home instance chests should be free to open because home instance harvesting gathering nodes is.

If there were OW versions of that chest that require the keys, then so would the one in the home instance. We know that specifically because of the example of the HoT chests. But hey, why would you use factual information we have when it proves you wrong, when you can try to come up with an absolute made up hypothetical and pretend that maybe it would be a fact. 🙄

He didn't claim that. You make stuff up. He said why do I need to participate in those maps to open the chests where the nodes you don't and get currency from both. He never used gathering before nodes either and you just add things to try to argue. You care he called a chest a node as you fought with him for 3 or 4 replies solely over that now change it to it's about mechanics. The only factual thing is a chest is a chest and a node is a node but I can say I'm looting all the nodes in my instance and that would include the chests also w/o having to specify I'm looting the nodes and chests just to appease you.

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, StevenL.3761 said:

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

How is it a "slippery slope", when your request is based on "free loot is always good" and "it feels bad I need to do something to get it" (along with trying to double dip specific map currencies, because you want to spend it on something other than keys, but still get the keys on top of it)?  He's just using the same arugmentation you did, so it's good you notice how unsubstantial it is. Those maps, currencies and keys are designed around spending some of the currency for the keys. If you don't do that, then it's your choice. But then asking for that loot anyways makes little sense.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

He didn't claim that. You make stuff up. He said why do I need to participate in those maps to open the chests where the nodes you don't and get currency from both. He never used gathering before nodes either and you just add things to try to argue. You care he called a chest a node as you fought with him for 3 or 4 replies solely over that now change it to it's about mechanics. The only factual thing is a chest is a chest and a node is a node but I can say I'm looting all the nodes in my instance and that would include the chests also w/o having to specify I'm looting the nodes and chests just to appease you.

No, he linked to the home instance page and told people that ~"chests being opened with keys make no sense since other things aren't opened with keys". So he did claim that and that's the argument he repeatedly kept trying to use by specifically comparing home instance HoT chests to home instance gathering nodes.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/104209-petition-make-home-instance-chests-free-to-open/?tab=comments#comment-1504421

"why should chests be different"? Well, because they're their own thing and everything openable/gatherable in home instance works like their counterparts in open world. Are you done pretending that's not what he keeps saying? Hopefully you understand the context of these responses now and we can move on.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[StevenL.3761]

42 minutes ago, Zohane.7208 said:

It's not a slippery slope in this case; it's entirely reasonable to assume that, were Anet to change such that chests become free, requests would come as a follow-on to make other nodes free

Textbook example of a slippery slope argument. It just doesn't get better than this. Just saying "no it isn't" doesn't make it not so.

[Jilora.9524]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, he linked to the home instance page and told people that ~"chests being opened with keys make no sense since other things aren't opened with keys". So he did claim that and that's the argument he repeatedly kept trying to use by specifically comparing home instance HoT chests to home instance gathering nodes.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/104209-petition-make-home-instance-chests-free-to-open/?tab=comments#comment-1504421

"why should chests be different"? Well, because they're their own thing and everything openable/gatherable in home instance works like their counterparts in open world. Are you done pretending that's not what he keeps saying? Hopefully you understand the context of these responses now and we can move on.

Lol did you even read that. I didn't but in their it calls the dragon piñata and leather rack a "chest" which don't require keys. In no way linking that list can you infer he said I can loot gathering nodes for free why can't I loot chests for free

[StevenL.3761]

Yes I am comparing home chests to home gathering. Why shouldn't I? Just because you don't like it? Then vote against this and walk away, simple.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Lol did you even read that. I didn't but

lol, I'm done. Have fun with that 😄

You're clearly here to just target me and argue against the clear evidence and I'm simply not interested anymore in repeating myself when you choose to avoid facts anyways.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jilora.9524]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

lol, I'm done. Have fun with that 😄

I didn't before you went and linked it otherwise how would I have noticed that leather closth racks the winterday tree and pinata are all listed as chests which require no keys so your whole arguement is wrong.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

I didn't before you went and linked it otherwise how would I have noticed that leather closth racks the winterday tree and pinata are all listed as chests which require no keys so your whole arguement is wrong.

I keep talking about "working the same as their open world counterparts" (re-read last 2 pages if you need to refresh your memory) and yet... you've already forgotten about that just so you can pretend I'm wrong? Cool. 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jilora.9524]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

lol, I'm done. Have fun with that 😄

You're clearly here to just target me and argue against the clear evidence and I'm simply not interested anymore in repeating myself when you choose to avoid facts anyways.

Oh now you add stuff. You clearly are only on these forums to argue pointless facts that you change wording to suit your endless attempts to prove anyone wrong and link stuff saying it proves you right while it proves you wrong but hey I'm the one avoiding "facts"

[Zohane.7208]

10 minutes ago, StevenL.3761 said:

Textbook example of a slippery slope argument. It just doesn't get better than this. Just saying "no it isn't" doesn't make it not so.

Actually it's not - a slippery slope logical fallacy only happens if there's no logical connection between the series of requests. In this case there's a very reasonable and logical series; therefore not a fallacy. IE It's HIGHLY likely that A would lead to B would lead to C.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Oh now you add stuff. You clearly are only on these forums to argue pointless facts that you change wording to suit your endless attempts to prove anyone wrong and link stuff saying it proves you right while it proves you wrong but hey I'm the one avoiding "facts"

"add stuff"?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/104209-petition-make-home-instance-chests-free-to-open/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-1505103

You've literally repsonded to this. I write about that pretty consistently. It really is time for you to stop lying. I didn't "add" anything here, that's my stance pretty much since the start of this thread (here's the post from the first page: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/104209-petition-make-home-instance-chests-free-to-open/?tab=comments#comment-1504441 where I'm also, without a change, write about OW counterparts).

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[StevenL.3761]

13 minutes ago, Zohane.7208 said:

Actually it's not - a slippery slope logical fallacy only happens if there's no logical connection between the series of requests.

False. A causal relationship (=logical connection) between hypotheticals is actually the only prerequisite for it to be a slippery slope argument.

Edited November 5, 2021 by StevenL.3761

[StevenL.3761]

@Sobx.1758maybe stop nitpicking and make a bullet list of how this change would hurt the players or the game (or the companies behind it)

Edited November 5, 2021 by StevenL.3761

[Jilora.9524]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:18 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

The chests still aren't nodes and never were nodes. No matter how many times you'll try to pretend in your posts it's the same thing, it just isn't.

You were given plenty of reasons, you're just dodging them.

 

 

Yes, without a change, facts are very confusing to some people 🥱

That's your original argument. Then it was he said gathering nodes should be the same as chests. Now you've changed it to they work as their open world counterparts which some have counterparts and many don't. Instead of just saying you don't think they should make this change you obsess over that 1 thing cause he called a chest a node.