Ugh...REMOVE the down-states in PvP PERMANTENTLY!!! This is great!!!

[Wrain.6792]

Why do we even have these down-states?  The maps are bumping right now and this pvp feels waaaayyy more visceral getting a "kill shot" vs the "sponge" lay there and keep taking hits downstate.

 

Why are they even a thing?  I guess if the PVE content needs/requires it...great.  But having them in PvP just sucks compared to this current event!

 

Please just remove them, the PvP feels fresh and exciting!

[Dadnir.5038]

You realize that the downstate is for all intent and purpose a PvP thing, right? I can count on a single hand the number of mobs that make use of it. PvE would largely work the same with or without downstate, in fact, without downstate it would just be "GW1".

The downstate exist to give an opportunity of teamplay and avoid 1HKO possibility in PvP. Marginally, it also is an excuse for the stomp mechanism and the various "finishers" which were one of the original black lion product designed to milk the PvP players out of their money. (Been a while since they released a new finisher thought)

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Without downstate, both PvP and WvW lose alot of strategy, especially team strategy. Poor management of downstate is one of the factors that causes a team to lose, while skill in managing it can result in victory.

 

Removing downstate just makes it a DPS game again, which is what we've been trying to move away from. Its fun for a while but it leads to unhealthy behaviors like entire groups of players trying to run away in WvW because they know they can't be revived by any means (with no in-combat ressing). It reduces overall commitment to fights.

 

Towards the end of the week players will be complaining about it rather than the opposite, as is usually par for the course with this kind of stuff. It only feels good until you get tired of it.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Tayga.3192]

If this happened, pvp will turn into a "one shot or be one shotted".

[Morwath.9817]

35 minutes ago, Tayga.3192 said:

If this happened, pvp will turn into a "one shot or be one shotted".

Depends if you adjust damage (or health pools) and replace revive signets/glyphs etc with huge burst heals.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Morwath.9817

[Exile.8160]

6 hours ago, Wrain.6792 said:

Why do we even have these down-states?  The maps are bumping right now and this pvp feels waaaayyy more visceral getting a "kill shot" vs the "sponge" lay there and keep taking hits downstate.

 

Why are they even a thing?  I guess if the PVE content needs/requires it...great.  But having them in PvP just sucks compared to this current event!

 

Please just remove them, the PvP feels fresh and exciting!

Yes lets remove more things from pvp that what we need right? -_-

 

Downstate promote team play and can be use with strategy to your advantage being leaving an downstate enemy for longer spawn time or a clutch rez.

Instead of wanting it removed, learn to use it in your favor!

[Fueki.4753]

Can we just remove the wish to remove down-state instead?

These threads pop up again and again to no effect.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

4 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Depends if you adjust damage (or health pools) and replace revive signets/glyphs etc with huge burst heals.

Or, consider this, actually making them revive dead players like they do in literally any other game. With appropriate high cooldowns OFC, like 10mins+ for an Elite revive skill such as the Warrior's banner.

 

This is the only game I've played where you're either required to waypoint (in PvE and WvW) or respawn (in PvP). Many MMOs are based entirely around reviving allies causing battles to last for hours on end.

 

There was a time in this game where you could even revive the Lords in WvW and it was glorious.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[aelska.4609]

Problem is not the downstate, it's the balance in the mechanics between downstate/rally/cleave/revive/stomp that has never been updated -> totally messed up nowadays.

 

In a very fun way, even the downstate between classes are not balanced ... Props to ranger unstoppable pet (and special actions still available) or necro auto-attack, that has a ... 4.5 power coefficient, making it the strongest skill in game ! 🤪

[Wrain.6792]

I agree with the above but not the rest of these posts. The downstate in it's current form is NOT pvp. It's a broken cheese mechanic that is abused aka jumping off cliffs to rezz etc. 

Takes MORE time banging on someone laying there.  That's not pvp..it's annoying.

 

Then again sounds like the playerbase in gw2 IS all pvers at heart. I guess I see why it is what it is....

Edited November 6, 2021 by Wrain.6792

[Morwath.9817]

19 minutes ago, Wrain.6792 said:

I agree with the above but not the rest of these posts. The downstate in it's current form is NOT pvp. It's a broken cheese mechanic that is abused aka jumping off cliffs to rezz etc. 

Takes MORE time banging on someone laying there.  That's not pvp..it's annoying.

 

Then again sounds like the playerbase in gw2 IS all pvers at heart. I guess I see why it is what it is....

 

...but man, it's sPvP subforum, not WvW.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Morwath.9817

[Genesis.5169]

Somebody got killed by necro downstate one too many times.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Before implementing this: Can Ele get more base health first please?

[Gorem.8104]

11 minutes ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Before implementing this: Can Ele get more base health first please?

Yeah, must be hard for the downstate class to get that way when you can't even go downstate. 🙂 And great to see Necro's nerfed!

Honestly I love no Downstate weeks in wvw, its great fun, but is fun as an event. It would lose its flavour if we got it all the time 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[ollbirtan.2915]

Thanks, but no. Downstate is an essential part of the game core mechanic. 

[The Fear.3865]

Downstate is cool pvp feature. 

We can discuss about rally tho... 

[Virdo.1540]

Downstate isnt the problem. Rallying is. Especially in WvW Zerg fights.

[Kayberz.5346]

They need to rework the rez/rally balance

 

There becomes a point where rallying from downstate actually becomes a form of sustain in team fights. There are so many cheesy ways now to instantly rez a downstate player and regardless of their stats it will always bring them back up to 50% health. And actually cleaving down a player with direct damage is almost impossible if somone is attempting to rez them. You shouldn't be able to out heal the dps of a player while in downstate, it should be a fast % per second heal, but the actual health should be a lower number so that you cant just facetank a berserker build cleaving your dead body with just one person rezing you

 

This can create a situation where you can have a really tanky bunker healing scourge that takes multiple people focusing to down, but then a teammate like another necro or ranger just instantly rallys them from downstate and suddenly that super tanky scourge is back at 50% hp and pumping barriers again,  they basically went from being essentially dead to getting an instant 15k heal, and then by the time you get them back down again the process repeats itself 

 

Make downstate players take more damage, nerf the ability to rez teamates so quickly, and make rally only return you back at like 10-30% hp in pvp. 

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Make downstate players take more damage, nerf the ability to rez teamates so quickly, and make rally only return you back at like 10-30% hp in pvp. 

And don't forget to nerf finishing as well, which is broken in its own ways.

a few examples:

Disable finishing while in Stealth, Elixir S and other effects that reduce the interactivity with one's character.

Interrupt the channel if the players uses any skill.

Daredevil's elite skill no longer automatically finishes players.

Reduce the radius for finishing.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 11/6/2021 at 4:03 PM, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Before implementing this: Can Ele get more base health first please?

New Ele espec: Deadmentalist.

[ollbirtan.2915]

23 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And don't forget to nerf finishing as well, which is broken in its own ways.

a few examples:

Disable finishing while in Stealth, Elixir S and other effects that reduce the interactivity with one's character.

Interrupt the channel if the players uses any skill.

Daredevil's elite skill no longer automatically finishes players.

Reduce the radius for finishing.

Or you could actually learn to counter play or use  these great mechanics to your advantage instead of asking for more nerfs. 

[Fueki.4753]

30 minutes ago, ollbirtan.2915 said:

Or you could actually learn to counter play or use  these great mechanics to your advantage instead of asking for more nerfs. 

The same can be said for people who want to nerf (or remove) downstate and rallying.

Rallying and finishing are about equally strong right now. If one was to be nerfed, the other would be in need of the same to keep them roughly equal.

 

[Gorem.8104]

On 11/8/2021 at 4:58 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

And don't forget to nerf finishing as well, which is broken in its own ways.

a few examples:

Disable finishing while in Stealth, Elixir S and other effects that reduce the interactivity with one's character.

Interrupt the channel if the players uses any skill.

Daredevil's elite skill no longer automatically finishes players.

Reduce the radius for finishing.

Honestly the only thing you should be able to do to help stomps is put stab on yourself, the fact that you can do it with Elixir S or in stealth has always seemed broken to me too. at least some classes like Guardian can stop the stealth stomp, but Elixir S is just op or anything that instant finishers. Cause at that point, what's the point of downstate if you can be finished instantly. 

[Jtoon.6907]

Deleted 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Jtoon.6907

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Yeah, I don't know what is going on with this thread but:

 

On 11/6/2021 at 2:01 AM, Wrain.6792 said:

Why do we even have these down-states?  The maps are bumping right now and this pvp feels waaaayyy more visceral getting a "kill shot" vs the "sponge" lay there and keep taking hits downstate.

 

Why are they even a thing?  I guess if the PVE content needs/requires it...great.  But having them in PvP just sucks compared to this current event!

 

Please just remove them, the PvP feels fresh and exciting!

No-Downstate is happening WvW, not SPvP.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 3:30 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

would largely work the same with or without downstate, 

Not at all.

With no downstate, a P2+ player could very seriously 1v3 G3 or even bottom Plat players.

With downstate, it prevents this kind of out-skilling from happening in PvP and in WvW. I'm not saying that is a good or bad thing, but it is a massive difference in dynamic. It makes it so players in even a 5 man havoc, are relatively safe from veteran Roamers if downstate is active. But when downstate is turned off, a veteran Roamer who plays at like a P2+ level, can 1vX and win against 5 general G2ish level opponents in WvW. Same thing would begin happening in PvP.

I mean if people want a game where they go into wvw or a match in pvp and have their entire team rolled by 1 guy at mid, then ok, keep telling the devs you like no downstate.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 7:49 AM, Tayga.3192 said:

If this happened, pvp will turn into a "one shot or be one shotted".

Absolutely correct. The game's meta would shift towards almost entirely Roamers like Sic Em Soulbeast, PD Coni Thieves, Rifle Deadeyes, Rifle Berserker, Power Shatter Mesmers, ect ect.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 1:34 PM, aelska.4609 said:

Problem is not the downstate, it's the balance in the mechanics between downstate/rally/cleave/revive/stomp that has never been updated -> totally messed up nowadays.

Also correct. There is a lot they could stand to polish up after so much changing to the game's dynamic in other areas over the years.

 

On 11/7/2021 at 10:19 PM, Kayberz.5346 said:

They need to rework the rez/rally balance

And that right there ^ is the main crux of the problem.

 

But downstate should not be removed. Removing downstate would cause waaaaaay more balance issues than what people who upvote these suggestions realize. Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524