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Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW


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1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

2. No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

3. All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events.

4. Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Conclusion: My friends and I never play WvW on no down state weeks. ANet took out all the fun and wasted our money for supporting them by making our Finishers redundant.

A very unhappy and disappointed player and soon to be ex-player.

Edited by Mil.3562
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1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier. 2.

1. Youre kitten punished for making mistakes, thats how games work. So what, when you play poker and lose all your money, casino should give it back to you because you got unlucky or outskilled? Are y

This thread is formatted like garbage on dark theme. Text is normally white for a reason. Just saying.

I agree that most people play it too safely, so you spend at least half the week in the most insufferable ranged-poke pirate ship meta.

It's a couple of weeks out of the year, though. Quitting over this is like quitting over not liking the Wintersday stuff.

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  • Mil.3562 changed the title to Too Many No Down State Events Are Bad For WvW

1.  PVP is still skill/build based, nothing has changed there.

2.  Support players are still important. Even though you get less wxp, if your teammates die, you die. Plus you get +100% WxP for the event.

3.  Don't take reviving traits, and spend it on traits that make you play better.

4.  Finishers are meant mostly for PVP, if you mainly play WvW, invest in Warclaw skins or Armor/Weapon skins instead.

 

All the people I talk to prefer the No-Down state event, and WvW is more popular than ever because of it. I don't think it should be a permanent thing, however, it punishes casual/less-skilled players *cough cough* too much, because they're used to getting picked up by their teammates. Also, it does somewhat discourage fights, especially among pug zergs because most of them lack the support/coordination to push keeps under siege.

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  • Mil.3562 changed the title to Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW
58 minutes ago, Defias.1892 said:

All the people I talk to prefer the No-Down state event, and WvW is more popular than ever because of it.

Yet no one seem to show anything to back that up since all big voting threads show a majority in support for keeping downstate and queues are just as large before and after downstate events.

Personally, my first roaming/smallscale fights of last night just repeat the exact same feeling I get every no downed state week: people drop like flies, fights end in seconds and the overall feeling is unsatisfying because there is no thought put into killing targets. Just train them down and instantly move to the next. It makes the combat easier and tips the scale toward the better players that just want to win more than they actually want a hard fight.

In particular we had a fight of 3 vs 5ish that made you wonder. We where a guild, they where a guild plus one maybe-maybe-not random. They where sieging as we had just taken it (probably just arrived and already had a cata up). We won it within maybe 1-2 minutes due to... luck? Skill? I dont even know. I jumped out, frontloaded a reaper and he died as I scurried inside with low hp. We went back out and took them down 1 by 1. The feeling at the end was meh. We won for sure and that was it.

With downstate it could have been a 5+ minute much "tougher" fight because we would have needed to coordinated attacks better and focused on downs so they couldnt res, probably had to focus that cata to avoid them having time to take the wall down and maybe even call for help on mapchat . Would we have won? Lost? Not a clue. But pretty sure a victory there would have felt much more earned.

I see advantages with no downed state just as anyone else, but I dont think it weigh up for the loss of it. It's not perfect and there are many things Anet could do to tweak it, but it's there and core part of GW2 combat. The combat most of us like.

Afterwards the fight above we engaged them at north camp and they got us (2 omegas didnt help), I managed to take a ranger down with me and 2 of them jumped on me. Well at least no downed state doesnt change players.

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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1 hour ago, Mil.3562 said:

1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

2. No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

3. All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events.

4. Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Conclusion: My friends and I never play WvW on no down state weeks. ANet took out all the fun and wasted our money for supporting them by making our Finishers redundant.

A very unhappy and disappointed player and soon to be ex-player.

1. Youre kitten punished for making mistakes, thats how games work. So what, when you play poker and lose all your money, casino should give it back to you because you got unlucky or outskilled? Are you dumb XD?
2. ??? With no downed state more people ACTUALLY die instead of going to downed state and being babysitted by "support" players, so you get more wxp and more rewards. And if you dont know how to tag ppl on support build, then you dont know how to play it. Again, as above XD
3. And they should be, even without these events. Downed skills are way too unbalanced, and so were/are traits. Theres a reason why they nerfed them repeatedly during last patches, you know?
4. Lmao what? First of all, I dont know a single game that allows you to buy more "microtransaction shop" items with in-game currency than gw2. Second, who the fk buys finishers with real money. In terms of WvW ppl spend real money to transfer between servers, finishers you get for free in sPvP or for 10g from TP. Again, as above XD

Conclusion: I understand why some people hate and why some people love NDS weeks. But that single post is the dumbest one Ive seen so far XD
 

Edited by Widmo.3186
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15 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Yet no one seem to show anything to back that up since all big voting threads show a majority in support for keeping downstate and queues are just as large before and after downstate events.

 

 

Quote

All the people I talk to prefer the No-Down state event, and WvW is more popular than ever because of it.

 That's what I said, except for the Queues are actually higher for my server, because it's never been queued for every map, even after reset.

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Just want to react to this part of the thread title: "too many..."

I agree with that. Anet's WvW team did not come up with any other (reasonable) idea for a WvW event in years (no, golem rush does not count IMHO). Alternatives could have been developed (e.g. double supply week, when dollies deliver twice as much supply, but spending supply on siege and repairs is only half as efficient; supply game would because incredible interesting and would shake up how we play in an interesting way), but has never been on Anet's list.

I don't like No Downstate, because it brings out the worst builds (ranged sniping & stealth ... stabby, stabby ... stealth again), but I have to cope this week.

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2 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

1. Youre kitten punished for making mistakes, thats how games work. So what, when you play poker and lose all your money, casino should give it back to you because you got unlucky or outskilled? Are you dumb XD?
2. ??? With no downed state more people ACTUALLY die instead of going to downed state and being babysitted by "support" players, so you get more wxp and more rewards. And if you dont know how to tag ppl on support build, then you dont know how to play it. Again, as above XD
3. And they should be, even without these events. Downed skills are way too unbalanced, and so were/are traits. Theres a reason why they nerfed them repeatedly during last patches, you know?
4. Lmao what? First of all, I dont know a single game that allows you to buy more "microtransaction shop" items with in-game currency than gw2. Second, who the fk buys finishers with real money. In terms of WvW ppl spend real money to transfer between servers, finishers you get for free in sPvP or for 10g from TP. Again, as above XD

Conclusion: I understand why some people hate and why some people love NDS weeks. But that single post is the dumbest one Ive seen so far XD
 

A lot of assumptions here. Not seeking your 'professional' opinions and approval here. And what makes you think that I did not spend money to transfer servers all these years? Ignorance is bliss lol. I have been in and out of all if not 90% of NA servers. Well i expected this, I know i will get flamed by the dwellers here and my points of address will be diverted or misguided. Nice try guys. 

Conclusion: Your single post has to be the one with the most invalid assumptions and ignorant comments I have seen so far XD

Edited by Mil.3562
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Its honestly more annoying than refreshing. Its too much of a rule change, I'm gauging the situation as if there is downstate and on every dropped player I'm like "oh, right".

I also don't finish players fairly often as a warning, or if they are a new player or as a way of saying I enjoyed 1v1 with them. No down state, no room for any of those. Duels also don't work.

You also see more glass cannons than usual. Again the way the game is changes too much for no apparent reason.

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31 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

I think the opposite, we should have more No downed stated events. A weekend a month would be a good mesure.

As a roamer I'm tired to win 2v1 fights that are ruined by somebody resurrecting a downed enemy, it sucks.

As a roamer I also enjoy no downstate events.  Other roamers tend to use builds with more focus on damage and less focus on running away and being outnumbered isn't as big a disadvantage when you actually have a decent chance of evening the odds by scoring kills.

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4 hours ago, Defias.1892 said:

 

 That's what I said, except for the Queues are actually higher for my server, because it's never been queued for every map, even after reset.

This. Just like how GW2 efficiency should never be used for accurate game statistics neither should forum polls, for exactly the same reasons.

 

Proof is in the queues.

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7 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

2. No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

3. All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events.

4. Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Conclusion: My friends and I never play WvW on no down state weeks. ANet took out all the fun and wasted our money for supporting them by making our Finishers redundant.

A very unhappy and disappointed player and soon to be ex-player.

All of these are feelings-based arguemts and invalidates your post as feed back, which is a shame as it explains the frustrations felt bys some players with being able to word it adequately.

There are objective arguments for the no down state being bad for the overall health of WvW.

1. It changes the team fight dynamics from who can utilize their skills best to who can burst the most and fastest. This removes the tactical aspect of outplaying our opponent and makes it a question of having chosen the correct class instead of being the better at playing.

2. Dynamics in team fights matter nothing. Going for supporting downed players meas nothing as they just instantly die. Healing it self makes no difference as concentrated burst can kill a target before the healer can even react. The acting party always have at least 120 ms before the reacting party can react (this is based on the fastest ever measured reaction time), on average it's 200 ms. This "lag" is even larger if the one reacting does on behalf of another instead of themselves as they have to process information.

3. Harrassing a big squad by making hit and runs at the edges of it is now a viable strategy. Choose a target, run in, cripple the target, unload everything you have on the target, and run away. The target is now dead and have to cover a potentially massive amount of ground to catch up. Effectively taking thjem out of the equation.

4- Smaller teams of better skilled players have no chance in a direct confrontation with a group that's a bit larger since all that matters with this change in a direct confrontation is strenght of numbers.

5. Professions in GW2 can unload a frightening amount of DPS, the only relief from this is the downed-state as it creates a buffer between using all those things needed and killing the target in PvP. This makes Boons such as Protection, Vigor, and Stability go from "nice haves" to "must haves" as the benefit of having them is with this modification literally the difference between life and death instead of just measure to postpone them as would be the case if there was a downed-state.

These are just a small sample of objective arguments that can be made against this effect and combined, if analysed with the extrapolated theory of the zone of proximal development, create a state of frustration in the player as their skill is no longer able to keep up. This will make the experienced activity of playing WvW to difficult for their "zone" level of ability and they'll just quit in frustration.

 

Edited by Malus.2184
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6 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

2. No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

3. All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events.

4. Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Conclusion: My friends and I never play WvW on no down state weeks. ANet took out all the fun and wasted our money for supporting them by making our Finishers redundant.

A very unhappy and disappointed player and soon to be ex-player.

1. people are afraid to push regardless of no downstate or not because god forbid they die in a pvp zone. warclaw makes it take soooooooooo unbearably long to run back/s

2. so tag them whilst they are alive or don't play support...or make your allies give you stuff....or best yet go pve if you want real money because wvw loot is dog crap.

3. 75% of traits/utilites/ weapons ect are completely useless in most areas of wvw. A few more being pushed to the side for a week is nothing.

4. I've spent money  to buy all kinds of things like extra bag slots and craft slots ....you know those things that are character specific not account unlocks and I then deleted that character losing all of that permanently....you aren't losing anything you still have it you can use your finisher in a week get over your self. In fact if your a zergling you don't use finishers 99% of the time anyway and just cleave things out.

conclusion: bye send stuff

 

I like no downstate it means my allies have a chance of being useful rather than a hindrance.  Not to mention the current revival meta being ranged is beyond stupid. MI was op but atleast it gave me a chance to delete the guardian now they don't leave the safety of the herd lol

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Consider going down less. It helps regardless if downstate is on or off.

The difference between the QQers during these events and the non-QQers is that the later can play either set of rules. Well I suppose there may be only people that only play during no downstate week, but I haven't really seen that as they wouldn't play much at all.

And if you die, who cares? It's a game lmao. You're not dying irl.

Btw, get out with that "it invalidates my build" crap. You know what was the first toon I logged on for the event since I didn't know? A blood scourge.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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46 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

All of these are feelings-based arguemts and invalidates your post as feed back, which is a shame as it explains the frustrations felt bys some players with being able to word it adequately.

There are objective arguments for the no down state being bad for the overall health of WvW.

1. It changes the team fight dynamics from who can utilize their skills best to who can burst the most and fastest. This removes the tactical aspect of outplaying our opponent and makes it a question of having chosen the correct class instead of being the better at playing.

2. Dynamics in team fights matter nothing. Going for supporting downed players meas nothing as they just instantly die. Healing it self makes no difference as concentrated burst can kill a target before the healer can even react. The acting party always have at least 120 ms before the reacting party can react (this is based on the fastest ever measured reaction time), on average it's 200 ms. This "lag" is even larger if the one reacting does on behalf of another instead of themselves as they have to process information.

3. Harrassing a big squad by making hit and runs at the edges of it is now a viable strategy. Choose a target, run in, cripple the target, unload everything you have on the target, and run away. The target is now dead and have to cover a potentially massive amount of ground to catch up. Effectively taking thjem out of the equation.

4- Smaller teams of better skilled players have no chance in a direct confrontation with a group that's a bit larger since all that matters with this change in a direct confrontation is strenght of numbers.

5. Professions in GW2 can unload a frightening amount of DPS, the only relief from this is the downed-state as it creates a buffer between using all those things needed and killing the target in PvP. This makes Boons such as Protection, Vigor, and Stability go from "nice haves" to "must haves" as the benefit of having them is with this modification literally the difference between life and death instead of just measure to postpone them as would be the case if there was a downed-state.

These are just a small sample of objective arguments that can be made against this effect and combined, if analysed with the extrapolated theory of the zone of proximal development, create a state of frustration in the player as their skill is no longer able to keep up. This will make the experienced activity of playing WvW to difficult for their "zone" level of ability and they'll just quit in frustration.

 

If somebody can't a handle a burst mounted in his (overpowered) warclaw and fall dead it's because he isnt using the adequate stat combination for wvw.

Good players love no-downstate events and bad ones complain and cry because can't be carried by mummy.

There are a lot of options like passive traits, runes, or utitity skills to resist a burst, while you call these must have boons a bad thing I see it as an adaptation to this event. It's good to step out the comfort zone.

 

Edited by frareanselm.1925
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